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  #681  
Old 02-13-2020, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Alison H View Post
I think Charles and Camilla are gaining in popularity. Camilla's charity work is admired, and Charles did an excellent job at the Holocaust Memorial Day event. But, unless you're people like Sean Connery and Joan Collins who still look amazing as they head towards 90, it's very hard for an older couple to outshine a much younger, more attractive and glamorous couple ... and Charles was never particularly cool even in his younger days. The Cambridges can still do a lot of good once they're the Waleses, though, with Charles and Camilla as the elder statespeople.
I absolutely agree with all of this. I guess I'm just saying that even though times have changed since the Queen and Prince Philip were the young couple on the throne, having a young, attractive, vibrant, engaging couple on the throne along with their household full of adorable children, is a fabulous way for the monarchy to connect with those younger generations that don't always view them in the same way that older generations might. Not that they can't and won't do fabulous work as Prince and Princess of Wales but that sometimes it's quite beneficial to have a King and Queen that many people juggling the demands of careers, aging parents, and young children can more closely relate to. Good PR, if you will. Frankly, I really like both Charles and Camilla and I have no doubt that they'll be great stewards of the monarchy, I just think the image of a young family on the throne might also be a positive in terms of forming connections with the general public.
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  #682  
Old 02-13-2020, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by _Heather_ View Post
I absolutely agree with all of this. I guess I'm just saying that even though times have changed since the Queen and Prince Philip were the young couple on the throne, having a young, attractive, vibrant, engaging couple on the throne along with their household full of adorable children, is a fabulous way for the monarchy to connect with those younger generations that don't always view them in the same way that older generations might. Not that they can't and won't do fabulous work as Prince and Princess of Wales but that sometimes it's quite beneficial to have a King and Queen that many people juggling the demands of careers, aging parents, and young children can more closely relate to. Good PR, if you will. Frankly, I really like both Charles and Camilla and I have no doubt that they'll be great stewards of the monarchy, I just think the image of a young family on the throne might also be a positive in terms of forming connections with the general public.
But, that’s life - the monarchy is not an elective office, and there is no choice to be made. The public will always have mixed feelings (to put it mildly) about Charles and Camilla, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be terrific for the monarchy. Whether people are open minded enough to accept them remains to be seen, but King Charles (though I hope he goes by George VII) will do his thing ...and that will be a good thing. Ok, so the image won’t be “young and beautiful”, but I’m good with that; this society is way too infatuated with youth anyway.
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  #683  
Old 02-13-2020, 08:07 PM
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Agreed. Also who knows what the future holds. Charles has been POWs all his life and when it is time for him to be the King.... I think he will be a good one. I also think William and Kate will also be good as well. I don't doubt any of that. The only thing that will shift any of this is just time.
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  #684  
Old 02-13-2020, 11:19 PM
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Why is there a photo of the Dutch enthronement regalia on the British page?
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  #685  
Old 02-13-2020, 11:26 PM
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Agreed. Also who knows what the future holds. Charles has been POWs all his life and when it is time for him to be the King.... I think he will be a good one. I also think William and Kate will also be good as well. I don't doubt any of that. The only thing that will shift any of this is just time.
Yup, and we shouldn’t forget that sometimes what’s needed is steadiness, steadfastness. I’m not comparing the situations at all, but when George VI became king, he was thought of as sort of dull and uninteresting, if thoroughly decent. He, Queen Elizabeth (future Queen Mother) and their little family were a wonderful tonic for through public after the chaos of the abdication crisis. Anyone following the Queen has a tough act to follow, but Charles’ many years as PoW has left him in fine shape to take over, and he’s no doubt training William wonderfully. I would also add that, for a long while, it was Harry that was considered the flashy, exciting one while many considered William to be stodgy and dull (making fun of his going bald, etc). When Charles is king, George, Charlotte and Louis will be older and I’m sure we’ll see more of therm, so they will help liven things up, lol
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  #686  
Old 02-14-2020, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
Yup, and we shouldn’t forget that sometimes what’s needed is steadiness, steadfastness. I’m not comparing the situations at all, but when George VI became king, he was thought of as sort of dull and uninteresting, if thoroughly decent. He, Queen Elizabeth (future Queen Mother) and their little family were a wonderful tonic for through public after the chaos of the abdication crisis. Anyone following the Queen has a tough act to follow, but Charles’ many years as PoW has left him in fine shape to take over, and he’s no doubt training William wonderfully. I would also add that, for a long while, it was Harry that was considered the flashy, exciting one while many considered William to be stodgy and dull (making fun of his going bald, etc). When Charles is king, George, Charlotte and Louis will be older and I’m sure we’ll see more of therm, so they will help liven things up, lol
Absolutely. Dull is good. Dutifulness is even better.

At the end of her memoirs Princess Alice Duchess of Gloucester (I'm paraphrasing here) said something along the lines of how she felt grateful to all the people who had come out to greet her over the years. She made the telling point that this was not because of her as an individual but because of what she represented.

I haven't read the book for along time & no longer have a copy. If anyone on here does maybe they'd like to check I've not just made all that up I'm pretty sure I haven't
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  #687  
Old 02-14-2020, 11:03 PM
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I think the Royal Family will put more emphasis on Sophie and Edward this year, Royal family need some good PR at the moment and those two give off a positive vibe these days.

I know Edward's had a sketchy past with the public and they were both a bit of a PR disaster themselves backed in the early 2000s re their business careers and of course royal knockout. But I think the public have largely moved on since then, Edward seems to have grown on people and Sophie has has a lot more popularity, the number of engagements they both do and the support they have given to the Queen and Phillip for many years, have kept out of controversy, no affairs or got divorced etc.
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  #688  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:11 AM
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In my humble opinion The Firm needs a thorough re-think of the concept. When Queen Elizabeth started her Reign, it was the start of the media era: her Coronation was the first live Eurovision broadcast.

But the workings of the monarchy remained the same as under her father King George V and under her grandfather King George V: see and be seen. The people need to see the royal family and the royal family needs to see the people. But now, in the 2020's, we have reached a visibility of both the royal family as well the people, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. On TV, in newspapers and magazines, online. And the people talk back: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok or forums like this one. An unstoppable stream of news, reviews, comments, etc.

That begs the question why, in this multimedia age, the extended royal family has to conduct 3,000 public engagements each year with barely any ripple or impact. Even on forums for royalty addicts like this one, the Duke of Gloucester visiting a cutlery company or the Princess Royal passing by Dogs For The Deaf barely causes any ripple.

That brings the question why the taxpayer should fund the travel, the assistance, the logistics, the security for Princess Alexandra to open a day centre in the East Midlands for example? Couldn't the local Mayoress of the local town do it just as well? Or the local noble family with bonds to the locals. Why not the Duchess of Rutland opening it?

The charities? Take an example to the new Dutch King: at the start of his Reign he dropped almost all charities. Explanation: "the King wants to be a King for ALL people". Only a handful institutions established by or connected to the Crown kept him as a Patron, like the Royal Academy of Sciences, the War Graves Foundation, the Praemium Erasmanianum. But no longer the Gouda Cheese Association, the North Sea Seal Rescue Centres, the Friesian traditional costumes conservation, etc.

This would mean the British King or Queen or senior British royals opening the new multi-billion pound High Speed Line to the North, baptizing a new submarine for the British nuclear component, opening a new university medical centre: these are not everyday occurrences.

Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Poland are more or less comparable with the UK in population and fare excellently well with only a president + consort (or only a King and Queen). It brings up the fair question how sustainable it is to have a daughter, or a cousin or a granddaughter of the head of state to go to Lodge Coaches in Chelmsford, to the Scouts Camp in Roxwell, to Railworld in Peterborough, to Corgi Hosiery in Dyfed, to Shed Company in Colchester, etc. Lovely visits undoubtedly, by the extended royal family. But even on THIS board it will barely receive attention, let alone in mainstream media. And it pops up the question: how do the French, Spaniards, Germans, Italians, Polish survive, their local events being starved from royal visitors ?

This is a fair question and I do have no doubt that the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge have their thoughts about it as well. If the rumours about a slimline royal family are true, then we know that this fundamental question I popped up above, was and is into their considerations.
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  #689  
Old 02-15-2020, 06:56 AM
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You have hit the nail on the head there - I can only pray the palace has someone like you given them advice.
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  #690  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Durham View Post
Absolutely. Dull is good. Dutifulness is even better.

At the end of her memoirs Princess Alice Duchess of Gloucester (I'm paraphrasing here) said something along the lines of how she felt grateful to all the people who had come out to greet her over the years. She made the telling point that this was not because of her as an individual but because of what she represented.

I haven't read the book for along time & no longer have a copy. If anyone on here does maybe they'd like to check I've not just made all that up I'm pretty sure I haven't
I would also add that being the monarch will tend - if he or she is doing it right- to make that person appear dull. The monarch is not supposed to have any - or at least not to offer up any - opinions, for example. Yet, the Queen is known personally to have a sparkling wit and is a fine pantomime. ....
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  #691  
Old 02-15-2020, 07:58 AM
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The Future of the British Monarchy

I think it will be very similar to Victoria, Edward VII & George V. Charles III will be the transition from Elizabeth II to William V.
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  #692  
Old 02-15-2020, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
In my humble opinion The Firm needs a thorough re-think of the concept. When Queen Elizabeth started her Reign, it was the start of the media era: her Coronation was the first live Eurovision broadcast.

But the workings of the monarchy remained the same as under her father King George V and under her grandfather King George V: see and be seen. The people need to see the royal family and the royal family needs to see the people. But now, in the 2020's, we have reached a visibility of both the royal family as well the people, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. On TV, in newspapers and magazines, online. And the people talk back: Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok or forums like this one. An unstoppable stream of news, reviews, comments, etc.

That begs the question why, in this multimedia age, the extended royal family has to conduct 3,000 public engagements each year with barely any ripple or impact. Even on forums for royalty addicts like this one, the Duke of Gloucester visiting a cutlery company or the Princess Royal passing by Dogs For The Deaf barely causes any ripple.

That brings the question why the taxpayer should fund the travel, the assistance, the logistics, the security for Princess Alexandra to open a day centre in the East Midlands for example? Couldn't the local Mayoress of the local town do it just as well? Or the local noble family with bonds to the locals. Why not the Duchess of Rutland opening it?

The charities? Take an example to the new Dutch King: at the start of his Reign he dropped almost all charities. Explanation: "the King wants to be a King for ALL people". Only a handful institutions established by or connected to the Crown kept him as a Patron, like the Royal Academy of Sciences, the War Graves Foundation, the Praemium Erasmanianum. But no longer the Gouda Cheese Association, the North Sea Seal Rescue Centres, the Friesian traditional costumes conservation, etc.

This would mean the British King or Queen or senior British royals opening the new multi-billion pound High Speed Line to the North, baptizing a new submarine for the British nuclear component, opening a new university medical centre: these are not everyday occurrences.

Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Poland are more or less comparable with the UK in population and fare excellently well with only a president + consort (or only a King and Queen). It brings up the fair question how sustainable it is to have a daughter, or a cousin or a granddaughter of the head of state to go to Lodge Coaches in Chelmsford, to the Scouts Camp in Roxwell, to Railworld in Peterborough, to Corgi Hosiery in Dyfed, to Shed Company in Colchester, etc. Lovely visits undoubtedly, by the extended royal family. But even on THIS board it will barely receive attention, let alone in mainstream media. And it pops up the question: how do the French, Spaniards, Germans, Italians, Polish survive, their local events being starved from royal visitors ?

This is a fair question and I do have no doubt that the Prince of Wales and the Duke of Cambridge have their thoughts about it as well. If the rumours about a slimline royal family are true, then we know that this fundamental question I popped up above, was and is into their considerations.
I'm neutral on the idea of a large extended working royal family vs a system just focused on the monarch plus those in direct line. The large extended model is actually relatively new in a historical context. Both have their pluses & minuses, supporters & detractors.

I am reminded of comments made by Lade Pamela Hicks (frustratingly I can't remember where I heard them) where she said that the role of royalty was to "spread a carpet of happiness". That's an interesting phrase & not easy to rationalise or measure. The unsung work of members of the royal family going about their ordinary duties does feed into a certain sense of Britishness that's not easy to quantify. Simply put there is a large constituency of people who treasure their royal family & want to see them in person not via social media. It's about an emotional link. I'm sure local worthies are wonderful people but they can't compete with the heartfelt connection that some British people do have with their royal family.

I take the point about the UK's peer group (although I'm not sure about the inclusion of Spain & Poland here) but of course the international aspect/commitments of the London based monarchy is a complicating factor.

The idea of corgi hosiery does brighten my world no end
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  #693  
Old 02-15-2020, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Betsypaige View Post
I would also add that being the monarch will tend - if he or she is doing it right- to make that person appear dull. The monarch is not supposed to have any - or at least not to offer up any - opinions, for example. Yet, the Queen is known personally to have a sparkling wit and is a fine pantomime. ....
I doubt if she's all that interesting as a person.. but seh's a decent good well meaning woman who has done her duty a long time. But the Royal role does have restrictions which can make someone seem dull. Charles has always been more controversial, and he is aware that he'll have to rein that in when he is King...
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  #694  
Old 02-15-2020, 10:10 AM
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I doubt if she's all that interesting as a person..
Oh I disagree but I suppose it depends on what people find interesting. She has decades of anecdotes about the people she's met & places she's seen, which she could deliver with wit & mimicry. I'm sure her years as head of state have given her a unique insight into politics & politicians. She knows more about horses than almost anyone & also a lot about gun dogs - plenty would find that interesting.
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  #695  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:22 PM
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Oh I disagree but I suppose it depends on what people find interesting. She has decades of anecdotes about the people she's met & places she's seen, which she could deliver with wit & mimicry. I'm sure her years as head of state have given her a unique insight into politics & politicians. She knows more about horses than almost anyone & also a lot about gun dogs - plenty would find that interesting.
She may be OK company in private (among people who like dogs and horses).. but honestly she's never struck me as someone who is comfortable with social situations. She IS stiff and shy, I think now, just as much as she was a girl.. and I don't think she could have done the job of "keeping her opinions to herself" so well, over all these years if she had been someone who had a lot of opinions like Charles has I know it is what seh's supposed to do, and yes IMO it does mean that the monarch has to come across as a bit dull.. but I think it is a role that comes relatively easy to the queen...Not that she's necessarily any the worse for that.
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  #696  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:29 PM
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I for one would love to sit down and talk to The Queen (and Anne) about dogs and horses. I think a great many ppl at least have an affinity for dog discussion. I've heard little snippets of things the Queen has asked/talked to ppl about so it is apparent she does have a good range of knowledge. I don't consider her dull/boring at all.

That said I do much prefer the style of the younger royals and how they engage with ppl though. It's a very different era.


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  #697  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:43 PM
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Oh I disagree but I suppose it depends on what people find interesting. She has decades of anecdotes about the people she's met & places she's seen, which she could deliver with wit & mimicry. I'm sure her years as head of state have given her a unique insight into politics & politicians. She knows more about horses than almost anyone & also a lot about gun dogs - plenty would find that interesting.
Yep. She loves horses, horse racing and doggies ...the Queen is my kind of gal, lol. She’s on the reserved side, which is also me, but that’s also why people who know her say that HM would surprise you with how witty she is. I think I’d have a lot to talk to her about of given the chance...she’s extremely interesting to me
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  #698  
Old 02-15-2020, 12:56 PM
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She may be OK company in private (among people who like dogs and horses).. but honestly she's never struck me as someone who is comfortable with social situations. She IS stiff and shy, I think now, just as much as she was a girl.. and I don't think she could have done the job of "keeping her opinions to herself" so well, over all these years if she had been someone who had a lot of opinions like Charles has I know it is what seh's supposed to do, and yes IMO it does mean that the monarch has to come across as a bit dull.. but I think it is a role that comes relatively easy to the queen...Not that she's necessarily any the worse for that.
She probably is a bit stiff in some situations but have you ever seen clips of her mingling with diplomats & politicians where she's quite forthright & funny? I remember one where she laughed as she told the PM Ted Heath that he was expendable. In others, she's relaxed & jolly as she chats to world leaders & their spouses. Then there's the social situation of appearing to relish dancing with the staff at the annual Ghillies Ball. I think she knows exactly when to be reserved & stony-faced & when she can lighten-up & relax.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Lilyflo View Post
She probably is a bit stiff in some situations but have you ever seen clips of her mingling with diplomats & politicians where she's quite forthright & funny? I remember one where she laughed as she told the PM Ted Heath that he was expendable. In others, she's relaxed & jolly as she chats to world leaders & their spouses. Then there's the social situation of appearing to relish dancing with the staff at the annual Ghillies Ball. I think she knows exactly when to be reserved & stony-faced & when she can lighten-up & relax.
I call it being in "Queen mode" and putting on her "Queen face" when she's in public. I think she believes that when she is being the monarch and representative of the Crown, its not about her personally but rather her position and her duty to the people. She instinctively, over many, many years, knows exactly what the situation calls for.

Behind the scenes, its been reported that she's funny and witty and a wonderful mimic and full of life. She is reported to love it when things go wrong and there are glitches that occur and things aren't perfect as it breaks up the monotony of everyday Queen life. This is a woman that consented to be portrayed as a "Bond girl" jumping out of a helicopter, doing a mic drop scene with Harry and the Obamas for a trailer to the Invictus Games. This is a woman who when sitting on a beach, had a woman approach her and state "Oh! Did you hear that the Queen may be here today? I hope I see her!" and the Queen just smiled at the fact she wasn't recognized as she was dressed as everyday woman.

She's also the woman most likely to be voted the most iconic and successful diplomat in the known world.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:36 PM
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I call it being in "Queen mode" and putting on her "Queen face" when she's in public. I think she believes that when she is being the monarch and representative of the Crown, its not about her personally but rather her position and her duty to the people. She instinctively, over many, many years, knows exactly what the situation calls for.

Behind the scenes, its been reported that she's funny and witty and a wonderful mimic and full of life. She is reported to love it when things go wrong and there are glitches that occur and things aren't perfect as it breaks up the monotony of everyday Queen life. This is a woman that consented to be portrayed as a "Bond girl" jumping out of a helicopter, doing a mic drop scene with Harry and the Obamas for a trailer to the Invictus Games. This is a woman who when sitting on a beach, had a woman approach her and state "Oh! Did you hear that the Queen may be here today? I hope I see her!" and the Queen just smiled at the fact she wasn't recognized as she was dressed as everyday woman.

She's also the woman most likely to be voted the most iconic and successful diplomat in the known world.
All this. Plus, I’ve read that the BRF give each other joke gifts for Christmas, so obviously that includes the Queen. She takes her duties extremely seriously, but I don’t think she takes life seriously. My favorite photos of her are from the Highland Games when she and Charles laugh uproariously - that’s not a woman who’s stuffy and dull.
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