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  #81  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:39 AM
Majesty
 
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I hardly think it is the queen's fault that 3 of her children have failed marriages… She is not responsible for their faults or problems.
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  #82  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I hardly think it is the queen's fault that 3 of her children have failed marriages… She is not responsible for their faults or problems.
No. But it speaks volumes about her track record as "Defender of Faith" and head of the Church of England: abysmal.

If we can not judge the Queen on that, why is she then "Defender of Faith" (it is pressed on every coin!) and head of the Church of England, with Lords bishops residing in the House of Lords even... It exposes it all as an empty egg: it means zero comma zero.

In the interbellum marrying a divorcee was reason for abdication. These days being a divorcee seems the norm at the Court... It is painful for the Queen, how symbolical her clerical position might be, it is a stain on "Dei Gratia Regina Fidei Defensor".
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  #83  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No. But it speaks volumes about her track record as "Defender of Faith" and head of the Church of England: abysmal.

If we can not judge the Queen on that, why is she then "Defender of Faith" (it is pressed on every coin!) and head of the Church of England, with Lords bishops residing in the House of Lords even... It exposes it all as an empty egg: it means zero comma zero.

In the interbellum marrying a divorcee was reason for abdication. These days being a divorcee seems the norm at the Court...
Wasn't this church created so Henry VIII could get a divorce?
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  #84  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No. But it speaks volumes about her track record as "Defender of Faith" and head of the Church of England: abysmal.

If we can not judge the Queen on that, why is she then "Defender of Faith" (it is pressed on every coin!) and head of the Church of England, with Lords bishops residing in the House of Lords even... It exposes it all as an empty egg: it means zero comma zero.

In the interbellum marrying a divorcee was reason for abdication. These days being a divorcee seems the norm at the Court...
Im sure there are bishops' children who are also divorced.. does that mean that they are bad people or that they have doen something wrong? People are responsbile for their own faults and actions.
And the 1930s is a long long time ago.

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Wasn't this church created so Henry VIII could get a divorce?
No, Henry did not get a divorce, he got annulments of his marriages.
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  #85  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
No, Henry did not get a divorce, he got annulments of his marriages.
so The Church of England was created so Henry VIII could get annulments of his marriages?
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  #86  
Old 02-18-2020, 11:57 AM
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IM not going to get into a religious argument whcih will probably get me told off..but the history of the C of E is a little more than Henry VIII
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  #87  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No. But it speaks volumes about her track record as "Defender of Faith" and head of the Church of England: abysmal.

If we can not judge the Queen on that, why is she then "Defender of Faith" (it is pressed on every coin!) and head of the Church of England, with Lords bishops residing in the House of Lords even... It exposes it all as an empty egg: it means zero comma zero.

In the interbellum marrying a divorcee was reason for abdication. These days being a divorcee seems the norm at the Court... It is painful for the Queen, how symbolical her clerical position might be, it is a stain on "Dei Gratia Regina Fidei Defensor".
1) That was the 1930s
2) Edward VIII was actually the King
3) Wallis was actually twice divorced.
4) The reasons for the abdication were a bit more complex than that anyway.
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  #88  
Old 02-18-2020, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I have noticed [amongst my own friends and family] that Divorce seems almost an hereditary condition..not invariably so [obv], but VERY often.. so i'm sorry for the Snowdon's but not [in the least] surprised.
Yes, I believe in that concept, too. Also the Lord Snodon was raised within very fragile circumstances, with two very fragile parents, spinning around themselves, having lots of affairs, drinking too much (well, keep my fingers crossed for the marriage of Lady Sarah Chatto...!).
On the other hand David Linley and Serena have been together for such a long time! Perhaps it was just what so many couples experience living together for years or even decades, the average growing-apart-from-each-other in the boredom of day to day life...?

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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
No. But it speaks volumes about her track record as "Defender of Faith" and head of the Church of England: abysmal.

If we can not judge the Queen on that, why is she then "Defender of Faith" (it is pressed on every coin!) and head of the Church of England, with Lords bishops residing in the House of Lords even... It exposes it all as an empty egg: it means zero comma zero.

In the interbellum marrying a divorcee was reason for abdication. These days being a divorcee seems the norm at the Court... It is painful for the Queen, how symbolical her clerical position might be, it is a stain on "Dei Gratia Regina Fidei Defensor".
Well, different from the roman catholic church, the church of England includes marriage and by that, possible divorce goes with it. It is not a characteristic of the Church of England, especially nowadays - and we speak about the 21st century! - to prohibit divorce. If you even look at some arab monarchies having muslim faith which, Iīm sure we can all agree on, deal a lot stricter with the subject of divorce, royal people can become divorced.

I think all the Queen can do to "defend the faith" in modern times is giving a good example HERSELF, by being pious in life, doing her worships regularly, claiming that prayer does matter and so on - all the things she has done brilliantly since she ascended the throne!
It would be a strange thing to expect of her to prohibit two people, who, in due course, taking in account their own childrenīs age, could become grandparents themselves, to seperate or divorce...! IMO she also can not force the two due to divorce to stay together (she is neither Henry VIII nor Queen Victoria!) - what kind of head of the family would she be then....?!
And havenīt there been divorces even in georgian times (apart, of course, from the infamous one of the Regent and Caroline of Brunswick!)? I guess the mistresses of the sons of King George III had their share in keeping the one or another royal marriage running - without them I assume there would have been more divorces! And that although their father the King was a very religious and devout man, plus Defender of the Faith! But even back then...

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Originally Posted by Duchessmary View Post
*jaw drop*
What in the world is going on??? After 25 years of marriage???
I know a lot people seperating after such a long time - including my own parents after 31 years!
I think in the old days many coupleīs didnīt live being married for 20, 25 or even more years as one of them might have died before (just think of all the deseases that couldnīt be cured 80 or 100 years ago or of how many younger women in their 20s and 30s died in child birth!), while the surviving partner eventually remarried again some time later. Iīm sure longevity didnīt make things easier for marriage!
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  #89  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:14 PM
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This is so unfortunate. Divorce affects the whole family. When my son and his wife divorced (no children, thankfully) I felt as though a hole had been ripped in my family. I can only imagine how the Queen feels. Hopefully the rest of the year will be more peaceful.
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  #90  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Less Royals at the Balcony in June ..
The Snowdons havenīt been "royal" at all! As virtual commoners with an aristocratic title they have been on that balcony as personal guests of the Queen to have a better view of the RAF fly past, not Royals.
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  #91  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:26 PM
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Where do the Snowdons reside?
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  #92  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Fijiro View Post
so The Church of England was created so Henry VIII could get annulments of his marriages?
Well, technically, yes! If H VIII didnīt desire to get rid of his 1st wife Catherine of Aragon to be able to marry Anne Boleyn, there would have been no reason for him, a firm believer in God (though, of course, he didnīt act like a christian, faithful man...), to seperate from Rome and create the C o England!
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  #93  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
Where do the Snowdons reside?
London & Gloucestershire I think.
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  #94  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
When I first saw the headlines - royals to divorce' I assumed it was the Snowdon's as there have been rumours for some time that they have been living totally separate lives and only appear together when forced, by the Queen, to do so.

Peter and Autumn were a surprise but this one isn't.

I am still expecting the possibility of another divorce yet - three announced in the past 6 or so months (although the Gloucester divorce was actually nearly a year before it was announced).
Agreed. I can't say I'd be shocked to hear of at least one if not two more by the end of the year.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have been hearing for close on 15 years now that Sarah and Daniel are living apart and only appear together for form's sake.
I've heard the same. Frankly I heard more rumors about the Chattos than about the Snowdens but both are certainly out there in the rumor mill.

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so The Church of England was created so Henry VIII could get annulments of his marriages?
Well, there's definitely more to it than just that but yes, essentially, that was very much a significant factor.
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  #95  
Old 02-18-2020, 01:54 PM
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For people in the UK, Lucy Worsley will be addressing the idea that the Reformation was all about Henry VIII's marital issues in "Royal History's Biggest Fibs" on BBC 4 tonight!
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  #96  
Old 02-18-2020, 03:50 PM
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I was quite surprised to learn that David and Serena are divorcing. Twenty-five years is a long time to be married.
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  #97  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Well, different from the roman catholic church, the church of England includes marriage and by that, possible divorce goes with it. It is not a characteristic of the Church of England, especially nowadays - and we speak about the 21st century! - to prohibit divorce. If you even look at some arab monarchies having muslim faith which, Iīm sure we can all agree on, deal a lot stricter with the subject of divorce, royal people can become divorced.

I think all the Queen can do to "defend the faith" in modern times is giving a good example HERSELF, by being pious in life, doing her worships regularly, claiming that prayer does matter and so on - all the things she has done brilliantly since she ascended the throne!
It would be a strange thing to expect of her to prohibit two people, who, in due course, taking in account their own childrenīs age, could become grandparents themselves, to seperate or divorce...! IMO she also can not force the two due to divorce to stay together (she is neither Henry VIII nor Queen Victoria!) - what kind of head of the family would she be then....?!
And havenīt there been divorces even in georgian times (apart, of course, from the infamous one of the Regent and Caroline of Brunswick!)? I guess the mistresses of the sons of King George III had their share in keeping the one or another royal marriage running - without them I assume there would have been more divorces! And that although their father the King was a very religious and devout man, plus Defender of the Faith! But even back then...
I agree with it all if she was Betty Windsor or, okay, Queen Elizabeth II alone. But no... She is what no any other European head of state is: Dei Gratia Regina Fidei Defensor, pressed on every coin in the world with her profile.

If someone has the pretension to be a sort of Anglican Pope, completely with being anointed with Holy Oil et al at her Coronation, then this remains a painful situation for the Christian practice ("For better or worse, until death do us part") in the very own family of the Head of the Church of England.
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  #98  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
I was quite surprised to learn that David and Serena are divorcing. Twenty-five years is a long time to be married.
This is true but its also true that after 25 years, people grow and change and no one is the same person they were 25 years ago. In a marriage, you either grow together and change together or grow apart and what worked 25 years ago, no longer works.

The love and attraction and romance that brings a couple together can easily fade away as people grow older, look less attractive going into old age and unless there's a strong, intimate bond that is formed in the manner of being "best friends forever" and the thinking of remaining "you and me against the world" kind of thing, the marriage falters.

Perhaps this is why its not unusual for a marriage to be stronger, more intimate and stable when its the second time around no matter the length of the first marriage.

I can proudly say that I can attest to this line of thought. We're just two old goats in the neighborwood here and the second time around for us has been one where the honeymoon never ended no matter the challenges we've face through the years.

Sometimes, divorce is a blessing.
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  #99  
Old 02-18-2020, 04:43 PM
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The title of Defender of the Faith was granted to Henry VIII by the Pope for defending the Catholic faith against Protestantism! So I wouldn't get too worked up about it: it's an old title. The King of Spain still has the title "King of Jerusalem". Whilst I'm sure that the Queen's religious faith is quite genuine, I wouldn't think for one minute that she sees herself as an "Anglican Pope". And she's the Supreme Governor of the Church of England: the Archbishop of Canterbury is the head of the Church of England.


What is she supposed to do, force them to stay married and be unhappy? The days of people having to live a lie because of religious and social conventions are gone. All the best to them for the future.
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  #100  
Old 02-18-2020, 05:34 PM
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Duc_et_Pair

Both French 'most Christian kings', louis xiv and louis xv, had mistresses without number, the first fathered large numbers of bastard Children, and the latter had a marked 'penchant' for underage girls - Yet their titles were never questioned [let alone rescinded] by the Vatican.
As i'm sure you realise the Titles held by HMQ [such as 'Defensor Fidelis'] are part of our historic patriimony, just as 'most Christian' was part of the French one.
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