Dutch State Visit to Sweden; October 11-13, 2022

[LadyFinn]

The King and Queen of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Their Majesties King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima, will pay a State Visit to Sweden on 11–13 October 2022 at the invitation of His Majesty the King.
The State Visit to Stockholm and Gothenburg will last three days.
State Visit from the Netherlands _ Kungahuset

 

[suztav]

The King and Queen of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, Their Majesties King Willem-Alexander and Queen Máxima, will pay a State Visit to Sweden on 11–13 October 2022 at the invitation of His Majesty the King.
The State Visit to Stockholm and Gothenburg will last three days.
State Visit from the Netherlands _ Kungahuset

Plenty of bling to look forward to!???

 

[Izzie]

Sweden and Netherlands have been busy with State visits! Good to see!

 

[An Ard Ri]

October is a nice time of the year for a visit as its not too cold in Sweden unlike the Spanish State Visit in December of 2021.

 

[JR76]

I'm delighted that the state visit has been confirmed. I've heard about it for almost a year, but didn't want to get my hopes up.

 

[Kingen]

Very good news that this visit finally will take place, and I hope the coverage of the visit will be good.

The third and last day would probably be a homage to the Dutch heritage of Gothenburg, as well as the green technology and solutions that are developed in the city.

 

[Stefan]

I'm delighted that the state visit has been confirmed. I've heard about it for almost a year, but didn't want to get my hopes up.

I had already read about from a dutch Journalist after the dutch State Visit to Austria but good to have it now confirmed.

 

[Marengo]

The Swedish state visit to the Netherlands still had two tiara events. Let's hope that the Dutch will return the favour.

 

[Stefan]

The Swedish state visit to the Netherlands still had two tiara events. Let's hope that the Dutch will return the favour.

Because the swedish King and Queen have usually the same dresscode at the Return Event then at the State Banque at their State Visits abroad. So if the State Banquet is white tie the Return is white tie and if the State Banquet is black tie the Return Event is black tie and so on.

 

[Kingen]

Because the swedish King and Queen have usually the same dresscode at the Return Event then at the State Banque at their State Visits abroad. So if the State Banquet is white tie the Return is white tie and if the State Banquet is black tie the Return Event is black tie and so on.

The Dutch Royal Couple has been quite consistent in offering a black tie concert in the honour of their hosts throughout their reign.

I guess we could see venues such as Stockholm Concert Hall, Nordic Museum, Moderna Museet or the Erik Eriksson Hall for the return event.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Swedish state visit to the Netherlands still had two tiara events. Let's hope that the Dutch will return the favour.

It was business suits for the Spanish return dinner.

 

[Kingen]

It was business suits for the Spanish return dinner.

As was the Finnish one in May. I think it tends to be that for a two-day visit where the guests will leave the same evening. Then you just get a reception, not a concert or a dinner really.

 

[Mbruno]

As was the Finnish one in May. I think it tends to be that for a two-day visit where the guests will leave the same evening. Then you just get a reception, not a concert or a dinner really.

It is the visitors' call actually as they are the ones responsible for organizing the return event. I suspect the Dutch might go for a black tie dinner since it is a three-day visit.

 

[Stefan]

It was business suits for the Spanish return dinner.

But that was how the spanish Royals decided it as they where the hosts.

 

[Kingen]

It is the visitors' call actually as they are the ones responsible for organizing the return event. I suspect the Dutch might go for a black tie dinner since it is a three-day visit.

Yes of course, I didn't mean anything else

 

[Somebody]

As was the Finnish one in May. I think it tends to be that for a two-day visit where the guests will leave the same evening. Then you just get a reception, not a concert or a dinner really.

The Dutch haven't done return dinners for a very long time. They prefer a cultural event (by a Dutch group or individual performer) - and as said previously, those events tend to be black tie.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

To be fair: one can ask what is the purpose of these State Visits. That Sweden and the Netherlands have excellent relationships is nothing new. That the Nordic countries are close-knit is nothing new. That the Benelux-countries have an almost fraternal relationship with each other is nothing new.

It is nice to see the King of Sweden packing out, all decorum, ceremonial and protocol on the highest level, but of course anyone already knows the relationships are excellent without the Queens wearing their best jewels, seating at the finest tables. It feels totally useless, to be fair.

Fun to see but in essence an useless exercition. It is not that IKEA (officially a Dutch company) or Volvo (officially a Chinese company) or H&M suddenly sees Swedish-Dutch trade improved because heads-of-state nipped some Pommery Cuvée Louise champagne under mighty chandeliers.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

To be fair: one can ask what is the purpose of these State Visits. That Sweden and the Netherlands have excellent relationships is nothing new. That the Nordic countries are close-knit is nothing new. That the Benelux-countries have an almost fraternal relationship with each other is nothing new.

It is nice to see the King of Sweden packing out, all decorum, ceremonial and protocol on the highest level, but of course anyone already knows the relationships are excellent without the Queens wearing their best jewels, seating at the finest tables. It feels totally useless, to be fair.

Fun to see but in essence an useless exercition. It is not that IKEA (officially a Dutch company) or Volvo (officially a Chinese company) or H&M suddenly sees Swedish-Dutch trade improved because heads-of-state nipped some Pommery Cuvée Louise champagne under mighty chandeliers.

In a way i feel the same... There are lots of repeats and repeats and repeats nowdays...... with almost identical programs and with countries who have very close connections since ages.... Different guests but identical context...

But i guess it protocollary has to be done so the dutch King ”have done his state visit” so to say...

I guess one can call it a Spectacle or a Theatre Performance of the same production but with half the cast changed to each performance.... Because it is ! The reality is that the ONLY thing anyone who is not directly involved in the state visits pays attention to anyway is the grand evening performace at the theatre (= the big dinner at the palace)

 

[Mbruno]

I was checking the list of honors of the Dutch royal family by country and it appears that King Willem-Alexander is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim while Queen Maxima is a Commander Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star.

What are the chances that King Willem-Alexander may be awarded the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and that Queen Maxima may be also upgraded to Member of the Order of the Seraphim?

 

[Stefan]

What are the chances that King Willem-Alexander may be awarded the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and that Queen Maxima may be also upgraded to Member of the Order of the Seraphim?

Certainly Máxima will be awarded the order of the Seraphime. This was also the case of Grand Duchess Maria Teresa at the Luxemburgian SV 2007 and for Queen Letizia (but she did not have the order of the Polar Stat as the other 2 ladies.
Will be interesting to see which dutch order Victoria and Daniel will get. Will the get the Order of the Lion of the Netherlands as it was done for Crown Prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary or the second highest dutch Order as it is usually done. We know that Crown Princess mette-marit was not upgraded at last years SV but not about Crown Prince Haakon as he did not attend.

 

[Kingen]

I was checking the list of honors of the Dutch royal family by country and it appears that King Willem-Alexander is a Knight of the Order of the Seraphim while Queen Maxima is a Commander Grand Cross of the Order of the Polar Star.

What are the chances that King Willem-Alexander may be awarded the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and that Queen Maxima may be also upgraded to Member of the Order of the Seraphim?

I would say the chances are good. I bet it will be same awards as during the Spanish State Visits last year. King Willem-Alexander will receive the Collar of the Order of the Seraphim and Queen Máxima will become a Member of the Order of the Seraphim.

The interesting part, is indeed what orders Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel will receive.

 

[Hans-Rickard]

Certainly Máxima will be awarded the order of the Seraphime. This was also the case of Grand Duchess Maria Teresa at the Luxemburgian SV 2007 and for Queen Letizia (but she did not have the order of the Polar Srat as the other 2 ladies.
Will be interesting to see which dutch order Victoria and Daniel will get. Will the yet the Order of the Lion of the Netherlands as it was done for Crown prince Frederik and Crown Princess Mary or the second highest dutch Order as it is usually done. We know that Crown Princess mette-marit was not upgraded at last years SV but not about Crown Prince Haakon as he did not attend.

And The Prince of Wales was also not upgraded during the Dutch State Visit to London in 2018... He even wore the lower Kroonorde (as he also did to the dutch inaguration in 2013) despite also having the higher Orde van Oranje-Nassau...

The choice of Orders for Frederik and Mary during the 2015 visit to Denmark was odd... Joachim and Marie still recived the Kroonorde as expected during the same occasion...

I expect the Orde van Oranje-Nassau for Victoria and Daniel.

Unless Daniel is downgraded again (like during the Spanish state visit) and he, Carl Philip and Sofia recives the Kroonorde while Victoria alone recives a higher order...

 

[Somebody]

It will indeed be interesting to see whether they will be awarded:
- with the highest honor (Grand Cross of Netherlands Lion) - like Frederik and Mary - or
- with the traditional one for heirs to the throne: Grand Cross of Orange-Nassau - like Haakon and Mette-Marit; or
- if they use the Crown Order again - which was given to Letizia.

 

[Stefan]

It is also interesting to note that Crown Princess Victoria doesn't have a dutch order yet. Yes she has not participated in a State Visit between the 2 countries but King Willem-Alexander had the Seraphim already before the swedish State Visit to the Netherlands in 2009. So it seems the swedish Royals are more generous in awarding Orders on other occasion then State Visits.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It is also strange that Orders like the Huisorde van Oranje and the Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau / l'Ordre du Lion d'Or de la Maison de Nassau which are no Dutch State Orders are bestowed during State Visits.

For making Crown Princess Victoria and Prince Daniel a Ridder Grootkruis in either the Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw (the highest civil State Order) or the Orde van Oranje-Nassau (the second highest civil State Order), a Koninklijk Besluit (Royal Decree) is needed, with a ministerial contraseign.

For bestowing House Orders, a Hofbesluit (Court Decree) is signed by the King, without any ministerial contraseign as it is entirely into his royal prerogative.

But the strange thing is that House Orders seem to depend too on State Visits, while nothing would have stopped the King to bestow a House Order on any moment he pleases to do so. That is why it is strange Crown Princess Victoria (goddaughter of Princess (Queen) Beatrix and godmother of Princess Catharina-Amalia) has no Dutch Order yet.

I also think that bestowing the Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw to the Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark was wrong.

Not that the Dutch King apparently has the highest esteem in them, that is not the point. But it is a State Order given during a State Visit. Giving the Norwegian and the Swedish Crown Princely couples a lower Order seems to hint that the State of the Netherlands has another valuation for the Danish couple vs the Norwegian and Swedish couples.

If the King apparently holds such a esteem in Frederik and Mary, he was (and is) free to bestow them the Grootkruis in one of his House Orders. This besides the "usual" Ridder Grootkruis in the (State) Orde van Oranje-Nassau which is given to Heirs.

The Prince of Wales has this:
Grootkruis in de Huisorde van Oranje
Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau
and he will become
Ridder Grootkruis in Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw as well Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau (Lux/NL).

 

[Hans-Rickard]

And during the Dutch State Visit to the other House of Nassau (Luxembourg) in 2018, The Hereditary Grand Ducal Couple could be seen wearing the Orde van Oranje-Nassau...

Only the Grand Ducal Couple wore the Orde van de Nederlandse Leeuw...

As Crown Princess Victoria have no dutch Order so far i would expect the Orde van Oranje-Nassau for her...

 

[Somebody]

I also think that bestowing the Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw to the Crown Prince and -Princess of Denmark was wrong.

Not that the Dutch King apparently has the highest esteem in them, that is not the point. But it is a State Order given during a State Visit. Giving the Norwegian and the Swedish Crown Princely couples a lower Order seems to hint that the State of the Netherlands has another valuation for the Danish couple vs the Norwegian and Swedish couples.

If the King apparently holds such a esteem in Frederik and Mary, he was (and is) free to bestow them the Grootkruis in one of his House Orders. This besides the "usual" Ridder Grootkruis in the (State) Orde van Oranje-Nassau which is given to Heirs.

The Prince of Wales has this:
Grootkruis in de Huisorde van Oranje
Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van Oranje-Nassau
and he will become
Ridder Grootkruis in Orde van de Nederlandsche Leeuw as well Ridder Grootkruis in de Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau (Lux/NL).

I agree that was a mistake. Unless it had been the new policy to give this order to ALL heirs - but given that the Norwegian couple still has Grand Cross of the Order of Orange Nassau, it is weird. It's best to be consistent in awarding orders - and hopefully no difference is made between Victoria and Daniel. For other couples the spouse of the heir also receives the same order as the heir.

Looking at close relationships: it seems even weirder if you consider that neither Willem-Alexander nor Máxima is a godparent to one of their children, while they are to one of the children of Victoria (W-A for Estelle) and Haakon (Máxima voor Sverre Magnus).

It is also strange that Orders like the Huisorde van Oranje and the Orde van de Gouden Leeuw van het Huis Nassau / l'Ordre du Lion d'Or de la Maison de Nassau which are no Dutch State Orders are bestowed during State Visits.

Are they? To whom? It seems the foreign royals normally receive a state order and not a house order at such occasions.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Are they? To whom? It seems the foreign royals normally receive a state order and not a house order at such occasions.

The Prince of Wales, the former Princess of Wales, the Princess Royal, Prince Laurent of Belgium, Princess Claire of Belgium, Princess Märtha Louise of Norway, the late Mr Ari Behn, Crown Prince Naruhito of Japan, Princess Sonja of Norway (under King Olav), etc.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Princess of Wales only foreign Order ?

 

[Somebody]

The Prince of Wales, the former Princess of Wales, the Princess Royal, Prince Laurent of Belgium, Princess Claire of Belgium, Princess Märtha Louise of Norway, the late Mr Ari Behn, Crown Prince Naruhito of Japan, Princess Sonja of Norway (under King Olav), etc.

Had forgotten the 'Crown Order' is indeed a house order - it is currently used as the 'third' order in terms of importance it seems - and used for foreign royals that for some reason cannot be awarded a state order...

Ari Behn of course was a special case as the Norwegian royals themselves never gave him a royal order but the Dutch royal family wanted to honor him as well, so I can see why they ended up with a house order in that case.

A recent case was queen Letizia - during their 'introduction visit' if I recall correctly.

At the state visit to Denmark (in 2015) Joachim and Marie also received the crown order - and prince Akishino and princess Kiko received theirs in 2014 - as well as crown princess Masako, which was weirder: because why was she relegated to the same status as her brother-in-law and his wife and not as her husband.

Is this probably a way to be more equal in terms of number state orders between the host and visitor?

In addition, it seems to be given to spouses of non-royal heads of states during state visits.

Maybe we should move this (interesting) discussion to a more appropriate topic - one specifically on Dutch orders?