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09-21-2013, 01:04 PM
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Heir Apparent
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Heerlen, Netherlands
Posts: 3,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bine221
Regarding an abdication - what is the Problem to ask someone to leave into well deserved retirement after so many years of Service for his Country? Especially if you are ill?
Bye Bine
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If a person wishes to retire there's nothing wrong with the above, it becomes wrong when you force people who don't want to to retire just because of their age
People tend to not listen to what others want anymore...
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09-21-2013, 01:29 PM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,091
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The idea of monarchy is to stay on for life. If people think that abdication should become a regular tool to get rid of a monarch when reaching a certain age or showing some signs of aging process than monarchy might not be the right institution to serve a country any longer. There are easier ways to get rid of a head of state, such as elections every four or five years.
Juan Carlos has a hip problem, not dementia. I dont see on what basis Felipe should be appointed as regent. He can do his official functions even from the hospital and will be available to get in contact 24/7.
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09-21-2013, 11:41 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 985
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People are simply mixing up everything. The monarchy is different, and politicians are different. The bad economy and unemployment is due to politicians, not the monarch. So dont drag him in for everything..
There is not even a single black spot on the King's personal integrity or his devotion to duty.. And if you are talking about that hunting trip, it is so trivial compared to the problems of the country..
If you are talking about Corinna's shady deals or Christina's scandal, then it the the judicial system of Spain to be blamed, not the King.
Christina/Corinna get away just because the system is lax. Look at Britain, The Queen's son was promptly sacked off for just associating with questionable persons. Her daughter for fined for speeding, and produced in court when her dogs bit a boy. Everyone took these things in stride..
But what about Spain..they were so reluctant to even call the Infanta to court for such serious case..
And even for this people will blame the King..saying he influenced..Why exactly should he be let to influence..If everyone in the system are sincere about delivering justice, then automatically things will work out..
Instead of focussing on that all fingers start pointing to The King for everything that goes wrong..
One thing..NOBODY HAS ANY RIGHT TO DEMAND THE KING'S ABDICATION OR REGENCY..atleast on basis of these silly 'associations'..
And the nation will not stop breathing if the King is out for a month for surgery..without a Regency..
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The only word I hate in the Royal Dictionary - ABDICATION
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09-22-2013, 02:58 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Southwest, Finland
Posts: 33,050
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Despite his operations and opinion polls showing his popularity fell last year, the king insisted in a televised interview in January that he had ''energy and hope'' to continue ruling.
Earlier this year a poll showed that 50 per cent of Spaniards thought the king should step down in favour of his son.
Spanish king won't abdicate, palace says
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09-22-2013, 08:55 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 35,155
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09-22-2013, 02:38 PM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by An Ard Ri
With the media reports of how unpopular Letizia is I think an abdication is the last thing the Borbón Monarchy needs,I'd like to see Felipe/Letizia and their daughters enjoy another few years of near normality.
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No mater a certain sector of Media tried to portrait how unpopular Letizia was, the polls still showed that she was more popular than JC. By your logic, JC should abdicate because he is the least popular, much less than Felipe now ? LOL 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soraya
IMO, JC hunting trip,his mistress,Letizia's rhinoplasty,Cristina new home in Geneva,Letizia not willing to spend more time in Mallorca and the consequent rumours(holidays abroad,surgery),Inaki's affair,Sofia the betrayed but impassive Queen .... aren't only harming the King but all the royal family including Felip.
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How could rhinoplasty (not uncommon among the royal women) be mixed with corruption ? Sure a certain media was trying to do it, but majority of the population would clear see the difference.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish
There is not even a single black spot on the King's personal integrity or his devotion to duty.. And if you are talking about that hunting trip, it is so trivial compared to the problems of the country..
If you are talking about Corinna's shady deals or Christina's scandal, then it the the judicial system of Spain to be blamed, not the King.
Christina/Corinna get away just because the system is lax. Look at Britain, The Queen's son was promptly sacked off for just associating with questionable persons. Her daughter for fined for speeding, and produced in court when her dogs bit a boy. Everyone took these things in stride..
But what about Spain..they were so reluctant to even call the Infanta to court for such serious case..
And even for this people will blame the King..saying he influenced..Why exactly should he be let to influence..If everyone in the system are sincere about delivering justice, then automatically things will work out..
Instead of focussing on that all fingers start pointing to The King for everything that goes wrong..
One thing..NOBODY HAS ANY RIGHT TO DEMAND THE KING'S ABDICATION OR REGENCY..atleast on basis of these silly 'associations'..
And the nation will not stop breathing if the King is out for a month for surgery..without a Regency..
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Anyone seriously thought Cristina, Inaki or Corrina would go this far without the help of JC ? Cristina's new home was 'architected' by her father, so was Corinna's previous home in Madrid owned by the National Heritage and her numerous shady deals, JC was said he would never let his daughter go to jail. Perhaps if JC is gone, Inaki (and Cristina) would get trialed fairly.
However JC's abdication might look bad on the monarchy because of the likely lawsuits against him followed by him losing immunity, starting with the previous known paternity lawsuit.
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09-22-2013, 04:16 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: somewhere, France
Posts: 682
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Her surgery was badly handled by the palace.This should have been made public.
Alas her operation was hidden until Leti was obliged to show up in public because of the bombings in Spain.She tried to hide her face with hair and it's only when people started to speak about it that the palace made a press release saying the motives were medical.
Not only people didn't believe the medical motives because of the total change of her nose but this opened the door to more and more rumours about potential other surgeries.
This and other affairs only make people think that the whole family is superficial and overprivilegded.
Other royals may have made discreet surgeries but they either live in not very democratic countries or in countries with better economical situations.
Luckily for other royals their surgeries were discreet
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09-22-2013, 05:32 PM
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Serene Highness
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Central Florida Area, United States
Posts: 1,434
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Whether or not the King abdicates should be up to King Juan Carlos. No one else should make that decision for him. I'm the old school of thought that once you are crowned a monarch that you should be a monarch for life. The only exceptitons would be if you were mentally ill, or mentally incapcitated which King Juan Carlos is neither. Having hip problems or complications from hip surgery is not grounds for abdication.
I doubt that any royal or monarch would want their child, siblings or family members to go to jail and this wouldn't change in Spain or anywhere else regardless of who was the Monarch. I don't think many judges would want to be the one to do this.
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09-22-2013, 06:09 PM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soraya
Her surgery was badly handled by the palace.This should have been made public.
Alas her operation was hidden until Leti was obliged to show up in public because of the bombings in Spain.She tried to hide her face with hair and it's only when people started to speak about it that the palace made a press release saying the motives were medical.
Not only people didn't believe the medical motives because of the total change of her nose but this opened the door to more and more rumours about potential other surgeries.
This and other affairs only make people think that the whole family is superficial and overprivilegded.
Other royals may have made discreet surgeries but they either live in not very democratic countries or in countries with better economical situations.
Luckily for other royals their surgeries were discreet
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From all the pictures I saw, she had the same hairstyle, don't see how she could hide her face and I doubt she tried to do. She had a nose job in 2008, the economic situation in Spain was not bad. A nose job is certainly a lot cheaper than a bundle of Valentinos or Oscar de la rentas the other women in the family bought and likely would be covered by the insurance (I think the royals buy private insurance since they usually go to private hospials) if it was a medial condition.
How about the palace didn't handle well the situation ? Perhaps. Maybe she did have the medical reason, maybe she didn't, personally I think the palace didn't need to give any explanation because nose job was a personal subject.
But a nose job had nothing to do with corruption or tax fraud.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascarlucy
Whether or not the King abdicates should be up to King Juan Carlos. No one else should make that decision for him .
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Although more and more people in power agree that he should consider retiring, he hasn't been forced to abdicate yet according to the government officials. It was him who called a press conference to tell everyone he was still the Head of State, Felipe would not replace him at the Latin America Summit because Felipe was not the Head of State. The 2nd declaration is laughable because not all Latin American countries had their Presidents attended before, sometimes the Vice President were there instead t of the Presidents. But JC has always been an insecure man with a enormous ego, the current situation must be very difficult and stressful for him. It's very sad, a man of his age with such a poor health should enjoy life with his wife, play with his grandchildren, however he is still fighting for power.
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09-22-2013, 11:32 PM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 985
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK
It's very sad, a man of his age with such a poor health should enjoy life with his wife, play with his grandchildren, however he is still fighting for power.
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Thats so nice for feeling "sad" for him. But apparently he is enjoying his life very well on his own terms. He enjoys conducting his role and duties, accepting all the physical trappings of old age..We need not feel sad for him. Instead should be proud of him..
__________________
The only word I hate in the Royal Dictionary - ABDICATION
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09-23-2013, 01:25 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK
But JC has always been an insecure man with a enormous ego, the current situation must be very difficult and stressful for him. It's very sad, a man of his age with such a poor health should enjoy life with his wife, play with his grandchildren, however he is still fighting for power.
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Has he? A man who not only survived living with a dictator for almost 30 years but builing up Spain after his death, pulling the strings until this very day? While I have no doubt about the enormous ego, I don't see him anywhere near insecure, I guess he couldn't care less about many things because of who he is. Not letting Felipe step up has nothing to do with insecurity, imo.
So, tomorrow the King will have his operation and we can relax in our seats watching the smiling SRF pilgrimage passing by, first Queen Sofia, then the rest, carefully choreographed who is coming which who and who is avoiding who, and who is faking the smile at his or her best  
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09-23-2013, 01:41 AM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade
Has he? A man who not only survived living with a dictator for almost 30 years but builing up Spain after his death, pulling the strings until this very day? While I have no doubt about the enormous ego, I don't see him anywhere near insecure, I guess he couldn't care less about many things because of who he is. Not letting Felipe step up has nothing to do with insecurity, imo.
So, tomorrow the King will have his operation and we can relax in our seats watching the smiling SRF pilgrimage passing by, first Queen Sofia, then the rest, carefully choreographed who is coming which who and who is avoiding who, and who is faking the smile at his or her best |
Even some dictators were very insecure, that's part of personality traits, doesn't have much to do with how much one has accomplished. It's laughable after every single operation, Zarzuela needed to come out telling everyone that JC was still the King, Felipe was only the PoA, he couldn't replace his father, he was only doing things his father wanted him to do, blah blah blah . What's the need to remind people again and again when everyone already knew ? If that's not insecure, what is it ? Even some of the press started to say that not letting Felipe go to the Latin America summit was absurd and selfish, I guess someone didn't want Felipe to look too good as he did in Argentina.
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09-23-2013, 01:50 AM
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Royal Highness
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: bedford, United States
Posts: 1,730
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Those kids are the only genuine ones in this family and it's always sad when they lose innocence.
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09-23-2013, 01:52 AM
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Heir Presumptive
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish
Thats so nice for feeling "sad" for him. But apparently he is enjoying his life very well on his own terms. He enjoys conducting his role and duties, accepting all the physical trappings of old age..We need not feel sad for him. Instead should be proud of him..
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Hopefully he is, unfortunately that's not what JC told his friends in the Vanity Fair article. He is a loner, lonelier and sad than ever. He seriously thought at his age he was still so attractive that a pretty woman of his daughter's age just fell in love with him ? Of course Corinna wanted lots of benefits out of the relationship.
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09-23-2013, 04:07 AM
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Courtier
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: somewhere, France
Posts: 682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amaryllus
Those kids are the only genuine ones in this family and it's always sad when they lose innocence.
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You have taken the words from my mouth.
Unfortunatly,I no longer feel any sympathy for any adult in this family.May be,I am exagerating but I feel that everyone there is fake.
The bad King versus the good Prince of Asturias that some want us to believe sounds ridiculous,they are one family.I highly doubt that Felipe wants his father to abdicate.I highly doubt that he wants his father to face the justice and end up in jail no matter what he did.
People in general hardly turn their back to their family members when they are involved in economic crimes.People tend to do it for another type of crimes like murders,rapes and paedophilia.
All in all Felipe will always be faithful to his father like Queen Sofia taught him.
With all these affairs,I hope the royal family children will be protected .I was sad to see the pictures of Cristina's children taken in Geneva in the press.
No matter what their parents did,children don't have to be exposed in the press.In France,I don't recall seeing in the press pictures of children whose parents are involved in corruption.
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09-23-2013, 04:22 AM
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 14,091
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donnaK
Even some dictators were very insecure, that's part of personality traits, doesn't have much to do with how much one has accomplished. It's laughable after every single operation, Zarzuela needed to come out telling everyone that JC was still the King, Felipe was only the PoA, he couldn't replace his father, he was only doing things his father wanted him to do, blah blah blah . What's the need to remind people again and again when everyone already knew ? If that's not insecure, what is it ? Even some of the press started to say that not letting Felipe go to the Latin America summit was absurd and selfish, I guess someone didn't want Felipe to look too good as he did in Argentina. |
Why must it be insecurity when confirming protocol for certain events during the King's recovery?
Maybe it is selfish or egomanic not to share power, but that is the trait of a king, you see the same thing in Britain, Sweden or Denmark.
Sofia is the same, she is not tired to say that Felipe has to wait and is very aware of her position as Queen. You can call it old school but this generation thinks that monarchy is for life.
The life story of Juan Carlos and Sofia gives so many answers to all the questions that people are now debating, not understanding why they are acting the way they do.
There has never been the need for Juan Carlos to be insecure because he has been the most powerful and influencial monarch compared to his european counterparts. Felipe will inherit none of this and compared to his father, he won't have much to say. The ruling elite is entangled with Juan Carlos and they will cut back Felipe to what they think is sufficient, he will be reduced to what he is supposed to be on paper. Juan Carlos was and still is so much more.
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09-23-2013, 10:48 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 35,155
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09-24-2013, 05:13 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: An Iarmhí, Ireland
Posts: 35,155
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09-24-2013, 09:50 AM
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Imperial Majesty
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 19,913
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__________________
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