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  #1421  
Old 11-21-2020, 07:50 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Just been thinking about FC, Eugenie, H&M. My sense is that the Queen or the PoW funded the purchase of a long lease on FC, and it was provded as a marital home to H&M. As Harry was a working royal, the costs of the refubishment were funded from the Sovereign Grant.

When Harry left, it was agreed that the Sovereign Grant monies would be repaid by H&M, which was duly done by September 2020. Given the imminent arrival of baby Brooksbank, Eugenie would have been looking for a family home, and it is possible it was agreed with the Queen that FC would be sublet to Eugenie. The £2.4m refurbishment costs paid by Harry would have been repaid to him by the Queen or the PoW. Net result is that the lease on the newly refurbished FC is technically held by Harry in his private capapcity, but has been sublet to Eugenie on a long term lease. Harry has been repaid any monies he spent on the house, so has no real financial stake in the property.

And, all the noise about H&M providing Eugenie with a home or sharing it with the Brooksbanks is probably just spin by Sunshine Sachs to make the Meghan appear benevolent.
This makes the most sense to me.
I can't see Meghan and Harry sharing a residence with Eugenie and Jack, and I can't see Meghan voluntarily handing over anything.
I don't think Meghan and Harry will ever be at Frogmorre Cottage again.
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  #1422  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by UglyAmerican View Post
I'm less and less inclined to believe that their intention was ever to spend significant time in the UK. Harry's may have been, but not Meghan's. Covid is a convenient excuse, but when you have the resources they do, it's not a real impediment. Frogmore is plenty large enough for a comfortable quarantine, and it could be done without exposing staff - going two weeks without the carpets being vacuumed never killed anyone. The same is true of their Montecito house. I'm not suggesting they start flying back and forth every month, but most UK citizens who found themselves stranded abroad after a vacation came home one way or another a long time ago. All of their paid work (if they're doing any) is done online anyway, and could be done just as well from Windsor as Montecito. If they're worried about potentially exposing others, they can quarantine for two weeks before the trip as well as two weeks after. If they wanted to do it, they easily could have by now.

In their defense, I think the statements about their intent to split their time were made when they still have some aspirations of being part-time working royals. Once it was clear they weren't going to be working royals at all, they no longer had the same obligation to maintain a part-time residence or tell the public anything about their living arrangements. Still, they could have saved themselves a lot of trouble by being more clear about their intentions from the beginning.
I don’t think they ever intended to truly split their time after their half-in/half-out proposal was rejected. It’s always been my theory that one of the primary driving factors to their leaving was that Meghan didn’t like living in the UK at all and couldn’t wait to get out. I don’t think that Meghan will ever live in the UK again, nor will Archie (at least not during his childhood, he may choose to move their as an adult but seeing as he’ll be raised in the US I honestly doubt it).
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  #1423  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
The cost of the full renovation and security upgrade for both Apt 1a in KP and Amner Hall near Sandringham was paid for by the monies set aside from the royal grant for repair and maintenance of royal properties.
Anmer, quite like Balmoral, Sandringham and Birkhall, is privately owned by QE2. Renovations to Anmer were not funded from the Sovereign Grant, and were funded privately by the royal family. The only costs to taxpayer financing would have been any security related costs which are covered by the Home Office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Meghan has no personal reasons to go to the UK. She has no family or friends there. She does have business interests in the UK though and her ongoing lawsuits, which might warrant an occasional visit.


Harry's situation is different as I imagine he would like to see his family and social relations in the UK from time to time, even if they are estranged right now.
Meghan clearly does not maintain good relations with any of her relatives, it will be interesting to see if Harry follows her in this regard.
  #1424  
Old 11-21-2020, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by acdc1 View Post
I don’t think they ever intended to truly split their time after their half-in/half-out proposal was rejected. It’s always been my theory that one of the primary driving factors to their leaving was that Meghan didn’t like living in the UK at all and couldn’t wait to get out. I don’t think that Meghan will ever live in the UK again, nor will Archie (at least not during his childhood, he may choose to move their as an adult but seeing as he’ll be raised in the US I honestly doubt it).
I dont know if it would even have been a 50 -50 split, even if it had been allowed. Money making takes time and Meg's priority was clearly to go to back to the US and have her life there. So Im sure that gradually it would have become more like 70% -30%, enough to "justify" their security costs. And since they were refused permission for the half in half out, I agree, that they never or at least she never, intended to spend any significant time in the uk again.
  #1425  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:09 AM
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They wanted to keep royal status by doing foreign tours etc to use their fame the rest of the year to make money for themselves. A clear sign that 'service' was not their highest priority. They've been refused and decided that making money and being in control was more important to them than keeping the position in which they had lots of opportunities to make a difference in the world as members of the BRF. Keeping their charities contributes to their profile that they need for their life of living of their semi-royal brand (while I still think they care about those charities, it is also clearly a way for them to feel good about themselves and remain on the top of the social ladder). So, I agree, a 50-50 split was never likely. Especially once Archie is off to school it is impossible to basically live on two different continents. And it seems the States provides the best opportunities for them to make a professional income.

Regarding them staying with Eugenie and Jack while in the UK. The tweet from Chris Ship reads "It is thought...", so it seems he isn't sure either as it is unclear by whom 'it is thought'.

Great solution by the way for the Brooksbank family to start living there. I guess their stay will be a lot longer than Harry and Meghan's.
  #1426  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
They wanted to keep royal status by doing foreign tours etc to use their fame the rest of the year to make money for themselves. A clear sign that 'service' was not their highest priority. They've been refused and decided that making money and being in control was more important to them than keeping the position in which they had lots of opportunities to make a difference in the world as members of the BRF. Keeping their charities contributes to their profile that they need for their life of living of their semi-royal brand (while I still think they care about those charities, it is also clearly a way for them to feel good about themselves and remain on the top of the social ladder). So, I agree, a 50-50 split was never likely. Especially once Archie is off to school it is impossible to basically live on two different continents. And it seems the States provides the best opportunities for them to make a professional income.
Exactly. They keep up some contact with the UK charities because it would look really bad if they dropped them.. and seeking contact with charities helps to keep their name before the public. I am not sure if Meg ever meant to stick out royal life full time. I think she always thought (perhaps she didn't know any better) that she could do this i.e. work for a year or so, then say that they wanted to make a private income and to live in the USA part time.. and that if money making opps came up, they'd be the priority.. I think she thought of it as like a TV show where if you get very successful you can negotiate more time off, shorter seasons so you can do more movies in...
But they needed that year or so as full time royals to get Meghan well known....
  #1427  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
They wanted to keep royal status by doing foreign tours etc to use their fame the rest of the year to make money for themselves. A clear sign that 'service' was not their highest priority. They've been refused and decided that making money and being in control was more important to them than keeping the position in which they had lots of opportunities to make a difference in the world as members of the BRF. Keeping their charities contributes to their profile that they need for their life of living of their semi-royal brand (while I still think they care about those charities, it is also clearly a way for them to feel good about themselves and remain on the top of the social ladder). So, I agree, a 50-50 split was never likely. Especially once Archie is off to school it is impossible to basically live on two different continents. And it seems the States provides the best opportunities for them to make a professional income.

I think pretty much this. The original plan was to come back for the big events, their big visible patronage events and fitting visits to other charities in and the high visible overseas tours. And making money off their royal/progressive activists/global philanthropist hybrid the rest of the time. Possibly even stuff like filming an official tour for Netflix.

We've seen that they desperately want to keep their titles and want to be seen doing BRF like events even now because it put them a cut above every other person in LA who is doing exactly the same thing. If they were Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor (even if they probably kept their titles in the UK) there would be a lot of Who? and less people interested in their brand as other royals in a similar position have found out.

None of this makes them bad people, I can see why they wanted it, but it was never going to work out with the Firm or the public on these terms.
  #1428  
Old 11-21-2020, 09:50 AM
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments

23 pages of Daily Mail comments re this.

1. Are Eugenie and Jack now paying RENT to the Sussex family for this?
2. Is this a short term rental agreement from Harry?
3. Do Eugenie and Jack have to vacate the premises if the Sussex family return?
4. The Sussex family will have the right to stay in the house whenever they return for visits?

So my question is? Who's house now is this? Harry and Meghan? Or Jack and Eugenie? If the Queen gifted it to Harry on his marriage; then I assume Eugenie and Jack are just renting; with not much tenancy rights legally.
  #1429  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments

23 pages of Daily Mail comments re this.

1. Are Eugenie and Jack now paying RENT to the Sussex family for this?
2. Is this a short term rental agreement from Harry?
3. Do Eugenie and Jack have to vacate the premises if the Sussex family return?
4. The Sussex family will have the right to stay in the house whenever they return for visits?

So my question is? Who's house now is this? Harry and Meghan? Or Jack and Eugenie? If the Queen gifted it to Harry on his marriage; then I assume Eugenie and Jack are just renting; with not much tenancy rights legally.
Its Harry and Meghan's house, presumably they are renting it to Jack and Eug who will take over maintaining it.. and its better than the house standing emtpy for long periods of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post
I think pretty much this. The original plan was to come back for the big events, their big visible patronage events and fitting visits to other charities in and the high visible overseas tours. And making money off their royal/progressive activists/global philanthropist hybrid the rest of the time. Possibly even stuff like filming an official tour for Netflix.

e terms.
Exactly. They or at least Meghan only wanted the big events where they would be noticed and admired. Foreign tours are harder work but they get you noticed more so I'm sure they were Ok with doing those, but they didn't want the boring second level events that are the bread and butter of royal life.. They didn't want to be sent off to visit a clinic for drug addicts or a baby centre in some dull city in provincial England, and to find that as they got older, the press didn't turn up for these sorts of events.... just as they don't really follow Ed and Sophie or Anne.
What they wanted (at least Meg) was work that made money and got her seen visiting places with a camera crew in tow, filming them as they did their visit to somewhere in India or Africa... and appearing on TV from time to time giving their opinion on political affairs in the US...
  #1430  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art....html#comments

23 pages of Daily Mail comments re this.

1. Are Eugenie and Jack now paying RENT to the Sussex family for this?
2. Is this a short term rental agreement from Harry?
3. Do Eugenie and Jack have to vacate the premises if the Sussex family return?
4. The Sussex family will have the right to stay in the house whenever they return for visits?

So my question is? Who's house now is this? Harry and Meghan? Or Jack and Eugenie? If the Queen gifted it to Harry on his marriage; then I assume Eugenie and Jack are just renting; with not much tenancy rights legally.
The house is still technically Harry and Meghan’s. They’ve paid off the costs that it took to refurbish it. I’m not sure what sort of “rental agreement” (for lack of a better term) they have with Eugenie and Jack, but I’m assuming E&J will be paying for the upkeep costs and things like that while they are living there. According to BP’s statement, when H&M are back in the UK the two families will theoretically share the premises. In reality I don’t see that happening, and I think that H&M will stay in a hotel in London. This also appears to be a long-term, fairly permanent situation, seeing as the Sussexes apparently cleared out the rest of their belongings to be shipped to California.

The arrangement does appear to make a lot of sense. The Sussexes are very clearly making California their permanent residence and building their home and family life there, and it allows Frogmore to be used by a family who will be based in the UK. It also gives Eugenie and Jack space for their growing family that’s close to her parents and grandparents, particularly if they want to raise their child outside of London in a similar way to how Eugenie was raised.
  #1431  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heavs View Post

If they were Harry and Meghan Mountbatten-Windsor (even if they probably kept their titles in the UK) there would be a lot of Who? and less people interested in their brand as other royals in a similar position have found out.
This might be a bit off-topic, but would they be Mountbatten-Windsor, or just Windsor?

Others in the RF (like Edward's children, for example) just seem to use Windsor.
  #1432  
Old 11-21-2020, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
This might be a bit off-topic, but would they be Mountbatten-Windsor, or just Windsor?

Others in the RF (like Edward's children, for example) just seem to use Windsor.
I would suspect Mountbatten-Windsor since that’s what Archie’s surname is.
  #1433  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:04 AM
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Where do Edo and Beatrice live?
  #1434  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I never cease to be amazed by the mean-spirited sniping of the DM, et al. but I really didn't expect that same feeling to hold such a firm sway on the forum.

The cost of the full renovation and security upgrade for both Apt 1a in KP and Amner Hall near Sandringham was paid for by the monies set aside from the royal grant for repair and maintenance of royal properties. The new tenants paid for the interior decoration of both, minus the items from the royal "warehouse" that upgraded the public rooms of Apt 1a as they were designated for official engagements.

Since the fire at Windsor Castle there has been a concerted and organized system in place to renovate and upgrade royal properties (e.g. BP) to meet building regulations and security. Frogmore "Cottage") flats were on that list and was upgraded to the standard required and decorated by the tenants.

The demands for money to be repaid for FC were from those who just got on the bandwagon of media vindictiveness which probably explains the notion that when they did pay the money it was unexpected. HM "gave" (leased) them FC as a wedding gift. Being paid back would have been both unexpected and probably painful as it negated her gift.

Having Eugenie and Jack sublet the property is a no brainer as there is no way HM or security would allow anyone else to live there within the grounds of Windsor Castle itself. Royal Lodge and other properties leased in Great Windsor Park are outside that "royal" ring.

Beatrice and Eugenie are closer to Harry as he continued holidaying with all the Yorks well after William had moved on.
Regarding your comment security wouldn't let anyone else to live there with in the grounds of Windsor castle. Please allow me to tell here a story: My husband took me to see his friends in Windsor, this was 1996, I was shock when I arrived to see that his friends were living in Windsor castle grounds. They had an apartment. And at one point they lend us their keys and I lived there for 6 months. His friend explained to me that the crown gave part of the grounds to build apartments for the high rank military that was in world war II, as I understand the military received it as a gift from the crown, As the time passed and the military passed away families decided to sell the apartments, this is the way my husband friend bought it. It is in the grounds and has a different entrance. I must say something amusing: We had at the time a pontiac transam with a number plate of Nevada, every time we were going in and out through the gates I would use sun glasses but always it was full of tourists and people would wave to us, I am not sure who they thought we were but a few times I wave back. Of course this apartments are very expensive not anyone can buy it. Lat year I took my daughter to Windsor. I just was showing my daughter the entrance of the gate where I used to go in and out and as it happen a gentleman pull over. I approached him and I said to him I used to live in apartment number XX in the 2 nd floor , and I wanted to showed my daughter the garden in front of the apartment, he was so nice and allow us to enter, I showed my daughter and we left. In all the time I lived there I had never seen nor the Queen nor any member of the royal family, the apartments are in the grounds of the castle but at the side of the building and there are a lot of walls that protect each area. May be anyone else here knows more about this apartments.
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  #1435  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
This might be a bit off-topic, but would they be Mountbatten-Windsor, or just Windsor?

Others in the RF (like Edward's children, for example) just seem to use Windsor.
Definitely Mountbatten-Windsor since that is the surname of all descendants of Queen Elizabeth Ii and Prince Philip other than those who carry the style of HRH, or female descendants who might marry and the respective descendants of the latter.

Edward’s children are James Mountbatten-Windsor, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor. Peter on the other hand uses his father’s surname ( Phillips) as her sister did until she got married and started using her husband’s surname ( Tindall).
  #1436  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:27 AM
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They have family and friends in the UK so it is not unrealistic that they would return to visit Covid-19 allowing. Frogmore is large enough for the 2 couples especially given that the Sussexes when they visit would only be staying temporarily.

There have been numerous reports of the couple abd little Archie video chatting with Cambridges, the Prince of Wales, and the Queen and Duke of Edinburgh.

If someone intents to ghost their family they wouldn't make the effort to keep in touch like the Sussexes have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Definitely Mountbatten-Windsor since that is the surname of all descendants of Queen Elizabeth Ii and Prince Philip other than those who carry the style of HRH, or female descendants who might marry and the respective descendants of the latter.

Edward’s children are James Mountbatten-Windsor, Viscount Severn and Lady Louise Mountbatten-Windsor. Peter on the other hand uses his father’s surname ( Phillips) as her sister did until she got married and started using her husband’s surname ( Tindall).
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  #1437  
Old 11-21-2020, 11:44 AM
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So Harry and Meghan own the house outright?

OR

If the house is in the gift of the Queen, has she now gifted it to Eugenie or Jack, as Harry and Meghan live abroad?

Daily Mail readers are saying ; when Charles is King, he could gift it back to Harry and Meghan again?

Housing Market retail is so confusing? I wonder if legal documents have been drawn up ; i.e. where do Eugenie and Jack stand? I suppose they can be evicted if nothing is legally binding. or their contract is only short term?
  #1438  
Old 11-21-2020, 12:36 PM
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I think it makes a lot of sense for Eugenie and Jack to move in. It's just lying empty at the moment, and they can hardly advertise in the local press for random members of the public to move in, so close to Windsor Castle.
  #1439  
Old 11-21-2020, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angieuk View Post
So Harry and Meghan own the house outright?

OR

If the house is in the gift of the Queen, has she now gifted it to Eugenie or Jack, as Harry and Meghan live abroad?

Daily Mail readers are saying ; when Charles is King, he could gift it back to Harry and Meghan again?

Housing Market retail is so confusing? I wonder if legal documents have been drawn up ; i.e. where do Eugenie and Jack stand? I suppose they can be evicted if nothing is legally binding. or their contract is only short term?
Why would he give it to Harry and Meghan again. and if the property were required for someone else I presume they'd give J and Eugenie notice...
  #1440  
Old 11-21-2020, 01:11 PM
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Very confusing topic. I was advised that Frogmore is OWNED by the crown and that the Monarch only can give living rights there as a Grace and Favor Act. This is binding completely at the desire of the Monarch. If this is in fact true, I am sure that the Queen would have had to give permission for this move or new transaction to occur. Monarch gave Harry and Meghan the gift of living at Frogmore but they do not and never will own Frogmore. Only the Crown owns. When the budgets are published yearly the amount of "rent" or gift tax will be made known. This is the reason that the Crown funds paid for the much needed revamping of the dwelling. It was in awful old shape for years and not upgraded since about WWII. The Crown should and did pay for those improvements. Harry and Meghan were to pay for the extra and upscaled items that they wanted and went far and above proper bringing up to code standards for habitation. That was the amounts of extras they were to pay for and apparently they have, or someone has so they claim that debt is clear. Now whether E and J will now be responsible for paying the yearly gift tax on Frogmore or if they will be required to give H and M money for living there and H and M still be responsible for gift tax is rather up to them and what the Queen agrees to them doing. Anyway, this is the opinion of British Law Professor and sounds like he knows the rules on this Grace and Favor type dwellings. JMO
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