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  #721  
Old 04-07-2021, 08:02 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
Yes I think that Charleen's had difficulties adapting to Monaco, though she lived there with Albert for a time before she was married.. but I think that she doesn't speak very good French and that may be one reason why she's not that happy and is not that involved with charity duties...Besides foreign brides often get criticism for their accents or for not speaking the language of their new country well... like Mary Donaldson in Denmark....
"Mary Donaldson" ?
She has been the Crown Princess of Denmark for 17 years next week...
She has an accent but she speaks a very good Danish.
No problems with adapting to Denmark.
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  #722  
Old 04-07-2021, 10:20 AM
Gentry
 
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Garibaldi Family

I think I read that Prince Albert of Monaco is worth 1 billion dollars. NICE. And I have found the Garibaldi family interesting in it's own way. I know there is a big age difference between Albert and Charlene. They seem happy though. For me having married a French man my language skills improved when our son entered school. In fact doing his first grade homework helped me perfect my French. So I took an intensive French class and I also read in French and put French sub titles if I watch a show in English. So I am always learning. When I speak French people often think I am English. As most Americans can't at all normally. So maybe as Charlene's children go through school she will have more exposure to French. Our son is a teen now.

Being American and understanding our education system here and the USA non-talent with languages. Meghan might have taken basic Spanish classes and a short internship in a Spanish speaking country would not likely make her much of a speaker. And she has some French skills but never having lived in a French speaking country she would have no reason to speak French. A conversation with children are pretty simple in their language uses. So my best guess is she has some basic to moderate level of understanding of Spanish and French. Slightly more than a well educated person but not much. If that to be honest. As she would have never been living in a French speaking country. She did live in an English speaking city of Canada. Which you would go about your life speaking English the entire time.

As for the Garibaldi family. American mother and French father. And our son raised in France I totally relate to their family language abilities. I always thought the youngest girl Stephanie kind of dedicated her life to yanking her fathers chain for lack of attention. Marry circus performers and body guards. She is a middle aged women now. I always wondered if it was just a way to torment a dad who wasn't seeing her. Anyway, I remember reading they spent a lot of time with their American family. Imagine coming from such a rich family.
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  #723  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:33 AM
Majesty
 
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I think you mean the Grimaldi family
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  #724  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:46 AM
Gentry
 
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Grimaldi not Garibaldi oops eek

Well at least I am not Princess Stephanie trying to torment my uptight French father by marrying a circus performer today. I had a few more thoughts. That like me Charlene will live in a French speaking country. So her language skills will improve. Oops about my error. That is what happens when most of my information is from teen years reading.

I was thinking about Meghan's language exposure. American English is very different than English sayings. Although she had lived in Canada there would be a time before she got all the English sayings down. It is sad that Meghan will not live any more time in England. Charlene will be forced to adapt somehow. Like Princess Grace. As there is no chance of Albert and Charlene moving back to South Africa. She is such a beautiful women. Really stunning.

Time is the essence in language development.
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  #725  
Old 04-07-2021, 11:52 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Tweetybird View Post
Well at least I am not Princess Stephanie trying to torment my uptight French father by marrying a circus performer today. I had a few more thoughts. That like me Charlene will live in a French speaking country. So her language skills will improve. Oops about my error. That is what happens when most of my information is from teen years reading.

I was thinking about Meghan's language exposure. American English is very different than English sayings. Although she had lived in Canada there would be a time before she got all the English sayings down. It is sad that Meghan will not live any more time in England. Charlene will be forced to adapt somehow. Like Princess Grace. As there is no chance of Albert and Charlene moving back to South Africa. She is such a beautiful women. Really stunning.

Time is the essence in language development.
Charlene has lived in Monaco for a long time now.. She was living with Albert for a time before they got married... but she doesn't seem to have become all that fluent in French.. or taken on much royal work...
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  #726  
Old 04-07-2021, 12:21 PM
Gentry
 
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Exposure to language

Having lived in a French language system I have great compassion for Charlene and Meghan and Philip somehow. Being the new person is never the easy road. Charlene having 2 children in a French school system will have to help them with their homework. And in France maternelle is 3-6 years of bean planting and birthday cakes and fun socialization. At 6 the real school begins and they have nightly homework. I basically learned French with my child in his first year of school. Plus she has twins. Who will be French speakers. All this exposure will help Princess Charlene. She really is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen really.

I am going to give this conversation a break. As i am mortified at my vast errors in history and details. As for Meghan the big difference between her and Charlene is that Charlene will live in Monaco as her primary residence for the rest of her days. And is married to the main person. Meghan is married a farther off in line and sadly had terrible trouble with the tabloids and other difficult issues. My guess is that the children of Harry and Meghan will have the best educations. One rich person way in LA is to go to the French school system which is extremely expensive in LA. Or other international schools in LA. Sadly Meghan may never live in England again. Chalene will be forever in Monaco like Grace. Like me.
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  #727  
Old 04-08-2021, 03:39 AM
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I dont think that Philip has any problems in relation to languages. he was brought up speaking several languages and kept up with them so that he was able to u se them in his royal life. Charlene, it seems isn't great with French and Im not sure it will improve as she' seems to have had a lot of time to learn and hasn't improved greatly. She and Albert probably speak English....
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  #728  
Old 04-08-2021, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tirilschatz View Post
If I remember well and I think I do, he held a speech in fluent german some years ago. (Might be 20 years by now...) It was for the WWF, but I cant find any video proof although I have been looking for it for some time.
Philip and Charles speak very good German, Philip more fluently than Charles.
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  #729  
Old 04-08-2021, 12:51 PM
Gentry
 
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Adult Language Learning

Denville thank you for having mercy on my soul for my terrible errors about Garibaldi and Grimaldi (later I thought is Garibaldi a chocolate?). I having been exposed to language learning at a young age and admiring people who spoke other languages. I tried my best to learn Spanish in my youth. I have maybe a moderate level and likely slightly higher. I learned French in true adult hood. And that is a very different experience. When we learn languages people wave big shiny objects in our face as infants and loudly repeat the word. Good luck with that after 40 years old. My point is that I have hope for stunning Princess Charlene. With 2 little French speakers in her house she just might learn something from their school experience. Because that is what happened to me with our son who is now 15. When he was in French 1st grade they have lots of homework about sounds. I did all his homework with him and by the end of his first grade when he was 6 I could speak fairly well. And since put subtitles for slang as movies have more common dialog than magazines. So I have faith that Princess Charlene even if she is frozen in her French abilities there are nothing like having not 1 but 2 little French speakers in her life who will help her along.
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  #730  
Old 04-08-2021, 02:19 PM
Majesty
 
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The children are 6 years of age, so I'd imagine they've been at school a coupll of years.. and Charlene has lived in Monaco before her marraige. So I dont think she's liklely to learn much. I dont know if Grace Kelly was all that fluent in French in spite of having children and being married for many years....
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  #731  
Old 04-08-2021, 08:00 PM
Gentry
 
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French maternelle is 3-6 years old. I knew those delightful twins looked near that age. So the first grade of real school starts after maternelle. For me it was here that I became a true speaker. I have talked to different adult language learners over the years and how they came up with something. I took the standard 2 years of French at university and then an intensive class for 4 months I think. French became useful to me and my son in the USA to have a secret language between us to say naughty things about people at the grocery store. Althought you might be right if Charlene has put forth no effort and she has no reason to improve even if her children drag her into the French world. She might never become conversational in French. I am just saying there is hope for her at this stage in her children's education to share their language development. Charlene must speak Dutch African. The Dutch language which is some sort of German. So she that would help with new language skills to have the previous learning abilities of having a 2nd language. Anyway you are right if she hasn't shown any steps toward functioning in French, it might not ever happen. For me I was motivated by my child in school and helping him with his homework and also work. I worked in France 10 years. So yes, Charlene might not arrive as they say in France.
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  #732  
Old 04-08-2021, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tweetybird View Post
French maternelle is 3-6 years old. I knew those delightful twins looked near that age. So the first grade of real school starts after maternelle. For me it was here that I became a true speaker. I have talked to different adult language learners over the years and how they came up with something. I took the standard 2 years of French at university and then an intensive class for 4 months I think. French became useful to me and my son in the USA to have a secret language between us to say naughty things about people at the grocery store. Althought you might be right if Charlene has put forth no effort and she has no reason to improve even if her children drag her into the French world. She might never become conversational in French. I am just saying there is hope for her at this stage in her children's education to share their language development. Charlene must speak Dutch African. The Dutch language which is some sort of German. So she that would help with new language skills to have the previous learning abilities of having a 2nd language. Anyway you are right if she hasn't shown any steps toward functioning in French, it might not ever happen. For me I was motivated by my child in school and helping him with his homework and also work. I worked in France 10 years. So yes, Charlene might not arrive as they say in France.
I know several South-Africans in this Dutch-speaking country but they would never consider their language a 'sort of German'; nor consider it 'the Dutch language'. The fact that we speak English among each other (and not Dutch of Afrikaans) suggests that the language while having similar roots (Germanic languages, with Afrikaans stemming of from Dutch) are truly different languages.

But I agree that having already mastered one 'second language' is typically beneficial in learning another.
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  #733  
Old 04-08-2021, 09:14 PM
Majesty
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody View Post
I know several South-Africans in this Dutch-speaking country but they would never consider their language a 'sort of German'; nor consider it 'the Dutch language'. The fact that we speak English among each other (and not Dutch of Afrikaans) suggests that the language while having similar roots (Germanic languages, with Afrikaans stemming of from Dutch) are truly different languages.

I think you are overreacting a little bit.

(Standard European) Dutch was the official language of the Boer republics of Orange and Transvaal (officially the Orange Free State and the South African Republic). Likewise, the South Africa Act 1910, i.e. the original monarchical constitution of the Union of South Africa passed by the UK Parliament, declared that English and, again, Dutch were the official languages of the Union. Afrikaans became an official language pretty much through the backdoor when, in 1925, the Parliament of the Union passed a law saying that the references to Dutch in the constitution should be interpreted as "including Afrikaans".

Yes, Afrikaans and Dutch are now separate languages (in terms of phonology, grammar, vocabulary, and spelling), but Afrikaans developed from the vernacular Cape Dutch dialect and was later standardized as a separate written language from European Dutch. The notion of Afrikaans being a different language from Dutch didn't really emerge until the early 20th century.

It is probably now difficult for Afrikaners to understand Dutch without formal training because Afrikaans grammar, in some aspects like verb morphology, is simplified/regularized compared to Dutch, and they may not recognize certain inflections. It should be easier for Dutch speakers to understand Afrikaans though (it is definitely much closer to Dutch than, let's say, German).


Here is a very well-known YouTube video of Charlize Theron speaking in Afrikaans to a Belgian reporter who is speaking Dutch. Keep in mind that Charlize has lived in the US for quite some time now and she probably doesn't speak "standard Afrikaans" (she mixes it with English for example occasionally).


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  #734  
Old 04-09-2021, 02:24 AM
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SLV SLV is offline
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I don't think Somebody is overreacting, at all.
It is just stating fact, which, as a fellow Dutch I can confirm.
Actually, South Afrikans will have less trouble following Dutch, that vice verse, in my experience.
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  #735  
Old 04-09-2021, 02:50 AM
Aristocracy
 
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I think the situation between Dutch and Afrikaans is quite similar to English and Scots. The two languages might seem similar at first glance, but if you look a little closer, you'll find that they are quite different.
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  #736  
Old 04-09-2021, 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RandyDrx View Post
I think the situation between Dutch and Afrikaans is quite similar to English and Scots. The two languages might seem similar at first glance, but if you look a little closer, you'll find that they are quite different.
Scots and English are quite different languages... just as Irish Gaielic and English are different languages.
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  #737  
Old 04-09-2021, 03:29 AM
Gentry
 
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In the Dutch

In the Dutch is an old American expression that means you have made a faux pas or minor mistake. I guess as usual I am in the Dutch with my sterling research and fact checking abilities called my middle aged brain. Anyhoo interesting conversation on Charlene and the differences between Dutch and Africaan nothing to do with German really. And the comparison might be made that Scott and English have a similar dissonance to Dutch and Africaan.

After living in France for a long time and Americans where I live are few and far between and most of my English speaking former coworkers were English. I felt although we 'theoretically' had the same language I find little in common with English thinking and lifestyle. As I am sure the English feel the same way about Americans.

The language between England and American is vast. The expressions and the thinking. Just different trying not to put a judgement on one being better or worse than the other. Just another example of a similar language with different history. At least we can understand each other in conversation sort of.

I remember reading a beautiful story about Charlene taking her children to South Africa so they could experience where she grew up. And also some talk that she loved to help them learn swimming. And with Albert European Royal family and his American family he also has had a bi-cultural upbringing and now include a stunning South African of Dutch ancestry. I know this is super-trite. Some modeling agencies believe that girls from Nordic countries raised in hot climate countries are the most beautiful. I don't know if this is still true.

For instance every USA miss American would come from Texas for a long time they kind of created a weird industry around it. And there is some thing about a person man or woman raised in a cold climate develop a layer of subterranian fat. And this makes you look a bit fatter. So in warm climates you don't develop this supposedly. I am a trashy magazine reader these are not my views. Miss Rhode Island never wins.

And for instance modeling agencies go to Brazil and try and find Europeans raised in hot climates. Like Giselle that one famous model I think was found this way I could be wrong like I usually am. Of course this is not always the case of how they find models and beauty queens, but it is a sort of beauty myth. And Charlene would fit that beauty myth of a Nordic person raised in a hot climate. They say that is why all the California girls are prettier because being raised where they don't have to develop that layer of fat.

My French language skills really took off when my son turned 6. I had been kind of floundering around until then. The French system is very home work intensive in the younger years after maternelle. Plus all that music reading lessons on Wednesday. Soundage. Anyway, I agree that because Charlene has some 2nd language exposure she might be receptive to learning along with her children. Only time will tell. Meanwhile I think she seem really great.
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  #738  
Old 04-09-2021, 05:32 AM
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this thread is really about royals speaking other languages than their own main language, and it seems to be going off topic. Charlene it seems to me may speak Afrikaans but she and Albert probably have always communicated in English and she doesn't seem to have learned very fluent French...so I doubt if she's going to learn it because she has children who speak French. So I think she's not really a great example of royals speaking other languages. ALbert speaks English fluently as it was problaby the language used most at home with his American mother... so he is an example....
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  #739  
Old 04-09-2021, 05:59 AM
Gentry
 
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Prince Albert I read on wiki speaks Italian, French, English and German. And went to University in the USA and majored in Political Science. He is considered one of the richest royals. And has 2 children outside of marriage one American Black and one French a boy. And the Monaco constitution was changed that line of succession could only be inside of marriage. So Charlene and Albert's son Jacques is the heir to the throne. And yes Albert having an American mother likely they spoke English growing up and his English would be especially good as he spent summers at a summer camp in the USA and went to American University. Although noted he did renounce his American citizenship. Likely for tax purposes. And due to Monaco being considered a tax haven for the super rich is likely why Albert is one of the richest royals. Anyway he speaks Italian, French, English (American) and German. Which is impressive. And my wandering point about Charlene being so stunning is that language ability was not the reason Albert married her. She is absolutely stunning.
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  #740  
Old 04-09-2021, 07:00 AM
Majesty
 
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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
this thread is really about royals speaking other languages than their own main language, and it seems to be going off topic. Charlene it seems to me may speak Afrikaans but she and Albert probably have always communicated in English and she doesn't seem to have learned very fluent French...so I doubt if she's going to learn it because she has children who speak French. So I think she's not really a great example of royals speaking other languages. ALbert speaks English fluently as it was problaby the language used most at home with his American mother... so he is an example....



I looked for clips of Charlene speaking Afrikaans, but I couldn't find any. I found a few interviews she gave to South African TV after marrying Albert, but they are all in English.
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