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  #181  
Old 09-12-2019, 04:29 PM
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Maximilian is a fine choice for a beautiful little one! Given that Anna Astrid was named after the BRF, it's nice that Maximilian has a more "Habsburgian" name.
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  #182  
Old 09-12-2019, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by theroyalfly View Post
Maximilian is pretty much a Habsburg name. Does anybody know if the baby's name is only Maximilian? Archduchess Anna Astrid is also just Anna Astrid. Amedeo has pretty much a long name.
The Wikipedia page for Prince Amedeo lists the son as Archduke Maximilian. There are no middle names.
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  #183  
Old 09-12-2019, 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
The Wikipedia page for Prince Amedeo lists the son as Archduke Maximilian. There are no middle names.
Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, anyone can edit it. The information on wikipedia comes simply from the released photo which only says his first name. Anna Astrid having Maria was never announced officially. At times with these private royals we only hear full names at christenings.

Maximilian is a lovely name from way back in the family tree. Both Maximilian of Baden and Maximilian of Saxony are in Lorenz's family tree.
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  #184  
Old 09-13-2019, 01:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
That would be logical indeed but there is no title "prince(sse) de Habsbourg-Lorraine". It is the name of the dynasty. I wish the Belgians had be more clear indeed. But the Norwegians did the same to Prince Sverre Magnus (without any furtherer designation).
I disagree. 'Prince/sse de Habsbourg-Lorraine' is a legal title in Belgian nobility. Actually both sons of Archduke Carl Ludwig of Austria and Princess Yolande of Ligne namely Rudolf and Carl Christian were incorporated into Belgian nobility.

When Archduke Rudolf married the Belgian aristocrat Baroness Hélène de Villenfagne de Vogelsanck in 1976 and taking up residence in Belgium thereafter, it only took two years for King Baudouin to incorporate him and his children and male-line descendants werewith the hereditary title 'Prince/sse de Habsbourg-Lorraine' and the style of Serene Highness in the nobility of Belgium by royal letters patent on 29 May 1978.

In 1982, his younger brother Archduke Carl Christian married King Baudouin's niece Princess Marie Astrid of Luxembourg and a year after, him and his children and male-line descendants were also granted an entry to the Belgian nobility with a hereditary title 'Prince/sse de Habsbourg-Lorraine' and the style of Serene Highness.

Therefore, legally, both Rudolf and Carl Christian and their children and male-line descendants are HSH 'Prince/sse de Habsbourg-Lorraine' in Belgium.

Source: de Badts de Cugnac, Chantal. Coutant de Saisseval, Guy. Le Petit Gotha. Nouvelle Imprimerie Laballery, Paris 2002
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  #185  
Old 09-13-2019, 03:26 AM
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Maximilian is a wonderful choice of name for the future head of the Archducal House of Austria-Este.
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  #186  
Old 09-13-2019, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by CyrilVladisla View Post
The Wikipedia page for Prince Amedeo lists the son as Archduke Maximilian. There are no middle names.
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Wikipedia is not the most reliable source, anyone can edit it. The information on wikipedia comes simply from the released photo which only says his first name. Anna Astrid having Maria was never announced officially. At times with these private royals we only hear full names at christenings.
To add to the answer provided by Countessmeout, numerous false claims on non-British royal titles and names are listed on Wikipedia; for instance, the Wikipedia pages are wrong on the predicate used by Princess Astrid's branch of the family, and the titles and last names used by Elisabetta and Anna Astrid. The official announcements from the Palace regarding these points have been consistent thus far:

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2252368
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2186635

Given the official information on his sister's names and titles, the most probable option is that "Prince Maximilian" will be used when a title is needed for the boy (he and his mother were listed by their first names only in the announcement of his name) and that he will be given additional middle names (I would be surprised if Marie or Maria were not included, as all of the descendants of King Albert II carry the name), but we will have to wait and see.
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  #187  
Old 09-15-2019, 09:41 PM
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In the 15th century the Holy Roman Emperor Frederick III gave the name of Maximilian to his son and eventual heir.
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  #188  
Old 09-15-2019, 10:57 PM
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It is interesting that the couple decided upon the German version of the name rather than the French, Dutch, or Italian one. I suppose they plan to remain in Switzerland for the foreseeable future.


Although Maximilian is a traditional Habsburg name rather than a traditional Belgian royal name, it does have a Belgian royal history, albeit perhaps not the most agreeable one.

Maria, Duchess of Burgundy, whose domains included the territories of Belgium, was married to Archduke Maximilian of Austria. He governed as regent after the death of his wife, but the Belgians were hostile to Maximilian's authority and he was at one time taken prisoner by the citizens of Bruges.

Maximilian Emanuel, Elector of Bavaria, was the final governor of the Belgian territories under the rule of the Kings of Spain. His allowing French troops to occupy fortresses on the Belgian border contributed to provoking the War of Spanish Succession, as a result of which Belgium was handed over to Austria.

Princess Charlotte, daughter of Leopold I, King of the Belgians, married Archduke Ferdinand Maximilian of Austria. He subsequently became the Emperor Maximiliano of Mexico, but his troops were beaten by the armies of the Mexican republic and he was executed.
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  #189  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
It is interesting that the couple decided upon the German version of the name rather than the French, Dutch, or Italian one. I suppose they plan to remain in Switzerland for the foreseeable future.


Although Maximilian is a traditional Habsburg name rather than a traditional Belgian royal name, it does have a Belgian royal history, albeit perhaps not the most agreeable one.

Maria, Duchess of Burgundy, whose domains included the territories of Belgium, was married to Archduke Maximilian of Austria. He governed as regent after the death of his wife, but the Belgians were hostile to Maximilian's authority and he was at one time taken prisoner by the citizens of Bruges.

Maximilian Emanuel, Elector of Bavaria, was the final governor of the Belgian territories under the rule of the Kings of Spain. His allowing French troops to occupy fortresses on the Belgian border contributed to provoking the War of Spanish Succession, as a result of which Belgium was handed over to Austria.

Princess Charlotte, daughter of Leopold I, King of the Belgians, married Archduke Ferdinand Maximilian of Austria. He subsequently became the Emperor Maximiliano of Mexico, but his troops were beaten by the armies of the Mexican republic and he was executed.

The language of Belgium or Switzerland likely didnt cross their mind at all.

Its a family name in the German form. Likely saw no reason to change that.

Lorenz's great-grandmother was Maria Josepha of Saxony. Both of Maria's paternal great-grandfathers were named Maximilian. Her father George was a son of John of Saxony and Amalie of Bavaria. John's father was Maximilian of Saxony, and Amalia's father was Maximilian of Bavaria.

George had Maximilian as a middle name, and he named one of his sons Maximilian (he was a priest). Maria Josepha had two sons, Charles (who was Lorenz's grandfather) and Maximilian of Austria. The wife of Mariano Hugo, Prince of Windisch-Graetz (Lady Gabrielle Windsor's godfather among other things) is Maximilian's granddaughter. Mariano's heir is named Maximilian.


Amalie had brother Maximilian and sister Maximiliana though both died in early childhood. Her nephew was Maximilian II of Bavaria.



Amedeo is not just a Belgian prince. He is an Archduke of Austria-Este. It makes sense he chooses a name to honor his paternal side.
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  #190  
Old 09-16-2019, 07:08 AM
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Prince Lorenz for his work uses different tittles :
Prince of tne Belgians , Archiduc of Habsbourg- Este and Duc de Barre.
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  #191  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
The language of Belgium or Switzerland likely didnt cross their mind at all.

Its a family name in the German form. Likely saw no reason to change that.
The various Maximilians mentioned in this thread (aside from Maximilian zu Windisch-Graetz) date to a period when different forms of an individual's name were used in different languages. For example, King Leopold I's son-in-law was known as Ferdinand-Maximilien instead of Ferdinand Maximilian in French, and Maximiliano instead of Maximilian in Spanish. The sources written in Dutch or French with which Prince Amedeo may have informed himself about his family history would most likely have used the Dutch or French forms of their names. But it is possible that he chose the German form to honor the German heritage of the Maximilians in his family tree.

Princess Esmeralda, however, named her son using the Spanish form (Leopoldo) of the Belgian royal name Leopold/Léopold, even though none of the Leopolds in the royal family were of Spanish heritage.
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  #192  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post
The various Maximilians mentioned in this thread (aside from Maximilian zu Windisch-Graetz) date to a period when different forms of an individual's name were used in different languages. For example, King Leopold I's son-in-law was known as Ferdinand-Maximilien instead of Ferdinand Maximilian in French, and Maximiliano instead of Maximilian in Spanish. The sources written in Dutch or French with which Prince Amedeo may have informed himself about his family history would most likely have used the Dutch or French forms of their names. But it is possible that he chose the German form to honor the German heritage of the Maximilians in his family tree.

Princess Esmeralda, however, named her son using the Spanish form (Leopoldo) of the Belgian royal name Leopold/Léopold, even though none of the Leopolds in the royal family were of Spanish heritage.
Well, in Esmeralda's case it has to do with the Hondurean heritage of her husband, after all her children are half Latinos anyway.
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  #193  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
Prince Lorenz for his work uses different tittles :
Prince of tne Belgians , Archiduc of Habsbourg- Este and Duc de Barre.
Prince of the Belgians? Isn't his title Prince of Belgium? I thought he was Duca di Modena?
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  #194  
Old 09-16-2019, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Prince of the Belgians? Isn't his title Prince of Belgium? I thought he was Duca di Modena?
As far as I have read, Prince Lorenz and his family have never used Modenese titles, at least not in public situations. Even if they did so, it would be a pretended title, as Italian titles of nobility were abolished in 1948.

His father, born as Archduke Robert of Austria, took the name and arms of the house of Este, but not the titles of the duchy of Modena, in 1916.

The Succession Laws of Modena
His Imperial and Royal Apostolic Majesty has been pleased, by patent of April 16 last, to transfer the name and arms of Este to his son HI&RH the archduke Robert Karl, in accordance with the testament of HRH the late archduke Franz of Austria-Este, duke of Modena, and HI&RH the late archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Este, so that HI&RH and those of his issue from equal marriage called after him by primogeniture shall bear the name Austria-Este and join the arms of Este with their own.
Notice that the late Franz Ferdinand of Austria-Este is not styled duke of Modena in the announcement.

It is also worth noting that under the patent, the name Austria-Este would have passed to the eldest son only. However, as the Austro-Hungarian monarchy was abolished and Robert's children born in France, all his children were born as "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)", as children automatically took the last name of their father under French law.
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  #195  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:06 AM
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King Louis Phillipe was the first and the last Roi des Français.
Leopold I was Roi des Belges and not roi de la Belgique
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  #196  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria View Post

Princess Esmeralda, however, named her son using the Spanish form (Leopoldo) of the Belgian royal name Leopold/Léopold, even though none of the Leopolds in the royal family were of Spanish heritage.
But Leopoldo Moncada's father, Salvador Moncada, is Honduranian.
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  #197  
Old 09-16-2019, 09:59 AM
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But Leopoldo Moncada's father, Salvador Moncada, is Honduranian.
Yes, but Salvador does not carry the name Leopoldo, to the best of my knowledge. Leopoldo Moncada was presumably named in honor of his maternal family, which is not of Spanish or Latino heritage.

Prince Amedeo is Belgian and Princess Elisabetta is Italian. Had they used the Belgian (Dutch or French) or Italian form of Maximilian for their son, the situation would have been no different from using the Spanish form of Léopold for the son of Princess Esmeralda and Salvador Moncada.

The fact is that both children's names were the decision of their parents; it was not necessary to use a particular form of the name in either case.


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Prince of the Belgians? Isn't his title Prince of Belgium?
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
King Louis Phillipe was the first and the last Roi des Français.
Leopold I was Roi des Belges and not roi de la Belgique
Indeed, the title of the kings is King of the Belgians. However, the royal family uses the title Prince of Belgium rather than Prince of the Belgians.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm

The same applies to Lorenz:
Article 1. Dans les actes publics et privés qui le concernent, l'Archiduc Lorenz-Otto-Carl-Amedeus d'Autriche-Este, époux de Notre Fille bien-aimée, la Princesse Astrid-Joséphine-Charlotte-Fabrizia-Elisabeth-Paola-Marie, Princesse de Belgique, sera qualifié Prince de Belgique à la suite des noms et titres qui lui sont propres.
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  #198  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:01 PM
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My dear fellow users, it might not just be that they thought it was a nice name Maximilian ????


And nothing else ????
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  #199  
Old 09-16-2019, 12:14 PM
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It is a beautiful, historic and fitting name. Maybe the name has three forms as Belgium has three official languages: aartshertog Maximiliaan van Oostenrijk-Este, l'archiduc Maximilien d'Autriche-Este, Erzherzog Maximilian von Österreich-Este. One never knows how that works with royal titulature on different sides of the language borders.
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  #200  
Old 09-16-2019, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
It is a beautiful, historic and fitting name. Maybe the name has three forms as Belgium has three official languages: aartshertog Maximiliaan van Oostenrijk-Este, l'archiduc Maximilien d'Autriche-Este, Erzherzog Maximilian von Österreich-Este. One never knows how that works with royal titulature on different sides of the language borders.
According to the Palace announcement of the name, it is kept in German form in both the French and Dutch languages.
Le Prince Amedeo et son épouse Elisabetta ont la grande joie de présenter leur fils Maximilian.

Prins Amedeo en zijn echtgenote Elisabetta stellen met trots hun zoontje Maximilian voor.

Regarding the royal titulature, since the Palace has always called his sister Princesse Anna Astrid, Prinses Anna Astrid, or Princess Anna Astrid up to the present time, I would predict it working in the same way for her brother: Prins/Prince/Prinz in the respective language, followed by Maximilian in German form. But anything could happen.


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My dear fellow users, it might not just be that they thought it was a nice name Maximilian ????


And nothing else ????
Of course that is a possibility. Is the German form of the name popular in Belgium or in Italy?
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