Titles of the Belgian Royal Family 1: Ending Aug.2023

[Prinsara]

Might he not have to renounce a foreign title if he's the future consort?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I expect him to be titled as prince but probably not with the style (at least that is what happened to Lorenz if I am not mistaken; his HIIH wasn't recognized but him being an Archduke was)

Lorenz's son, born before the abolition of Salic law in 1991, was styled as HIRH Prince Amedeo in his (Belgian) birth registration. I suppose his father's HIRH would likewise have been recognized in any Belgian documents where his name appeared.

After their creations as Princes and Princesses of Belgium, Lorenz and his children were recognized as HRH in Belgium and were styled as HRH Prince/Princess. Examples can be found in the court circular.


Note: I replied belatedly in post #445 to your thoughtful response to me regarding the royal experts on social media, although I admittedly still find it impossible to understand their logic.

If anyone should have further information on that issue, I remain very interested in hearing it. Making inconsistent statements on social media would be nothing abnormal in and of itself, but these comments were made by self-proclaimed experts.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Was Prince Albert styled Duke of Brabant at the time of the wedding?

For whatever reason, King Leopold II never styled either of his brother's sons as Duke of Brabant or with any other historical dynastic title, even after it became obvious that no legitimate son was forthcoming and his nephews would inherit.

Exactly. But in registrary office not via court.

AFAIK applicant was Delphine, she won her surname and the court decision can not affect another persons and their surnames.

The opinion that surnames belong to the jurisdiction of the registry office rather than the courts was submitted by the counsel for King Albert II. As we know, his interpretation did not prevail in the courts.

Whether or not the surname of the O'Hare children was changed (there were conflicting reports on that question), they were indisputably affected by the court decision to the extent of being judicially created Princess and Prince of Belgium.

In the official communication (on Monarchie.be), she is called HRH Princess Delphine, so she is addressed with her new title, which is another sign of acceptance of her new status as Princess.

She is legally HRH Princess Delphine, so I would expect the palace to address her correctly.

Royal palaces in Belgium and elsewhere very often do not address people with their legally correct titles. For instance, until he was created Prince of Belgium, the Palace addressed Lorenz as HI&RH Archduke Lorenz of Austria-Este, and not as Mr. Lorenz Habsbourg-Lorraine.

We are not experts in Belgian law but I think that Her Royal Highness was born as daughter of heк present father

Since you are discussing Belgian law and not biology, from the legal point of view Delphine was born as the daughter of Jonkheer Jacques Boël, thus the necessity for legal action in order to become the daughter of King Albert II.

Delphine could have opted for o'Hare de Saxe-Cobourg or De Saxe-Cobourg o'Hare (see De Roumanie Medforth Mills or Van Oranje-Nassau van Amsberg).

de Roumanie in Nicholas and Karina's case is one of their middle names. The siblings' legal surname in the UK: Medforth-Mills.

No, their legal surnames at birth did not include de Roumanie. How they may have used or represented the name since is a different matter. Nicholas's sister in particular is little interested and very low-key about her royal background. Her friends know her as Karina Medforth-Mills. Sorry, this is quite tangential to the topic here, but I was responding to a questionable comparison made above concerning double royal surnames.

The post did not include any comparisons, questionable or otherwise, of the legal distinction (or the lack thereof) between "middle names" and "surnames" in Belgian and UK law. It merely cited the Roumanie Medforth-Mills siblings as an example of persons who bear both paternal and maternal family names. (And after reading the UK government's explainer on the applicable law, it is far from clear to me that the distinction is present in UK law.)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

You invented the title "prince/ss of Nowhere".

Yes, I read all messages in this thread.

In that case, you will be aware that "the title 'prince/ss of Nowhere'" was your invention and not mine.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Oh, God!

Article 1-3: "some descendants of Leopold I IS princes(ses) of Belgium".
Article 4: "other descendants of Leopold I IS NOT princes(ses) of Belgium".

No.

Once more, Article 4:

Art. 4. De Prinsen en Prinsessen, geboren uit de nakomelingschap in rechte lijn van Zijne Majesteit Leopold, Joris, Christiaan, Frederik van Saksen-Coburg en die niet worden beoogd door de artikelen 1 tot 3, voeren na hun voornaam en voor zover ze die voeren, hun familienaam, de titels die hun krachtens hun ascendentie toekomen.

Art. 4. Les Princes et Princesses, issus de la descendance directe de Sa Majesté Léopold, Georges, Chrétien, Frédéric de Saxe-Cobourg qui ne sont pas visés par les articles 1er à 3, portent à la suite de leur prénom et, pour autant qu'ils le portent, de leur nom de famille, les titres qui leur reviennent de droit par leur ascendance.​

Translation:

Article 4. The Princes and Princesses, born in direct descendance from His Majesty Leopold, George, Christian, Frederick of Saxe-Coburg, who are not covered by Articles 1 to 3, carry following their forename and, so far as they carry it, their family name, the titles to which their ancestry gives them the right.​

There are a variety of legitimate interpretations of the message of Article 4.

For instance, as Somebody pointed out, it could be interpreted that Article 4 specifies the order in which any other descendants of Leopold I who may happen to be princes(ses) should use their titles - but without specifying which descendants are entitled to be princes(ses) or hold titles. (In my opinion, this interpretation comes nearer to King Philippe's intentions.)

Or, as Mbruno pointed out, it could interpreted that Article 4 entitles all other descendants of Leopold I to be princesses/princes, but (unlike Articles 1, 2 and 3) not "of Belgium". (For Article 2, the Brussels court of appeals adopted an interpretation analogous to this one, as we saw in 2020.)


But there is no room for the interpretation that the message of Article 4 is "other descendants of Leopold I IS NOT princes(ses) of Belgium".
(ETA: As a clarification for readers who have not read the preceding discussion, I am not arguing that the other descendants are princes(ses) of Belgium: They are not. The point is that this is not because of Article 4, and it is not the purpose of Article 4.)

In Article 4, there is simply no reference to princes(ses) of Belgium per se.

In addition, Article 4's only mention of Articles 1 through 3 (the articles which do deal with princes(ses) of Belgium) neither adds nor subtracts anything from what is already laid down in Articles 1-3.


That being said, should any of the fluent French or Dutch speakers know of another possible reading, I welcome their corrections.

 

[Mbruno]

Lorenz's son, born before the abolition of Salic law in 1991, was styled as HIRH Prince Amedeo in his (Belgian) birth registration. I suppose his father's HIRH would likewise have been recognized in any Belgian documents where his name appeared..

Lorenz's name actually appears in the transitional provisions of the Belgian constitution in connection with the constitutional amendment that introduced equal primogeniture in the royal succession. As you can see, he is not referred to as HIRH or any specific prefix, but rather only by the title Archduke of Austria-Este postponed to his forename.

I. Les dispositions de l’article 85 seront pour la première fois d’application à
la descendance de S.A.R. le Prince Albert, Félix, Humbert, Théodore, Christian, Eugène, Marie, Prince de Liège, Prince de Belgique, étant entendu que le mariage de S.A.R. la Princesse Astrid, Joséphine, Charlotte, Fabrizia, Elisabeth, Paola, Marie, Princesse de Belgique, avec Lorenz, Archiduc d’Autriche-Este, est censé avoir obtenu le consentement visé à l’article 85, alinéa 2.

The royal decree of 10/11/1995 that made Lorenz a Prince of Belgium in his own right also cites him as Archduke [Given Names] of Austria-Este without any style prefix. In this case, however, unlike in the constitution, the prefix HRH is also omitted before Princess Astrid's name although the titular dignity of Princess is prefixed to the given names.

Art. 1er. Dans les actes publics et privés qui le concernent, l'Archiduc Lorenz – Otto – Carl - Amedeus d'Autriche-Este, époux de Notre Fille bien-aimée, la Princesse Astrid – Joséphine – Charlotte – Fabrizia – Elisabeth – Paola - Marie, Princesse de Belgique, sera qualifié Prince de Belgique à la suite des noms et titres qui lui sont propres.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It can be even more intersesting to nete that before 1891 they were not only Princes and Princesses but alsa had style of HRH. And if one can say they were princes/ses of SCG, nobody can say they were SCG HRH because SCG were merely Highnesses.

I suppose it was just custom that children of king are princes/ses and HRH. [...]

Look at page of Almanac de Gotha 1886. It was before 1891 decree but they all were princes/ses and Alt.Roy. Please note that this information was approved by the court. [...]

And 1890:

The parts of your comment which I have quoted are factual. They however do not support your assertion that "as daughter she was HRH by virtue of 1891 decree" (even if we pass over the fact that the 1891 decree was repealed in 1991).

On the contrary, the Almanach de Gotha substantiates that the 1891 Royal Decree was not meant to allow a future Delphine, or any other future descendant (legitimate or illegitimate), to be born as HRH Princess. Every single person ("direct male-line descendants from His late Majesty Leopold I") who was potentially impacted by the 1891 decree at the time the decree was issued already was HRH Princess or Prince (or HM King) by custom.

Article 1. In the public and private acts relating to them, the princes and the princesses born in direct male descendance from His late Majesty Leopold I will be referred to as princes and princesses of Belgium, following their first names and preceding the mention of their original title of duke or duchess of Saxony.​

Thus in 1891 it was just transferred from custom into law

There is little point in guesswork about the intentions of the 1891 Royal Decree, because the report about the Royal Decree presented by the Government in 1891 makes the government's intentions plain and explicit:

[...] on ne les désigne que par leur prénom, mais à l'étranger, on qualifie nos princes et princesses du nom de la Belgique et tel est bien leur nom qui leur revient.
Nous avons la conviction, Sire, de répondre au vœu de tous, en soumettant à la signature royale un arrêté qui leur confère ce nom, [...]

Translation:

([...] we designate them solely by their forename, but in foreign countries, they refer to our princes and princesses by the name of Belgium, and indeed such is their name that they merit.
We are determined, Sir, to answer the wishes of all, by subjecting to the royal signature a decree which confers this name on them, [...])​

So it was enacted not to make any person a prince or princess, but to officially confer the name (surname) "of Belgium" on those male-line descendants of Leopold I who were already, by custom, princes and princesses. It was the surname, not the title, that was transferred from custom into law by the 1891 Royal Decree.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/royalty/royalbelge.htm#Belgique

 

[Tatiana Maria]

I wonder what will happen concerning the titles of Princess Maria Laura, her future husband William Isvy, and any possible children of the marriage.


The princess:

Princess Maria Laura's official style will certainly continue to be HRH Princess Maria Laura, in the same way that her mother (since the succession changes of 1991) is officially styled as HRH Princess Astrid, Princess of Belgium.

https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/princess-astrid

However, if Laura and William continue to live in Britain, I wonder if she will call herself Mrs. Isvy in private life, in accordance with British custom.


Her future husband:

William Isvy will not acquire any legal titles; Prince Amedeo's wife Lili Rosboch did not.

However, the Royal Palace currently styles Lili by courtesy as Princess Elisabetta Rosboch von Wolkenstein, which is often shortened to Princess Elisabetta.

https://www.lesoir.be/246315/articl...dit-le-prince-amedeo-et-sa-femme-annoncent-la
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-17.html#post2186635

Will the Palace likewise give William Isvy the courtesy style of Prince William Isvy or Prince William after marriage? Probably not, as there is little to no modern precedent in the nobility for a man to be addressed with his spouse's title even as a courtesy, but unlike the nobility, the royal family has introduced gender-equal succession for the descendants of King Albert II.


The possible future children of the marriage:

Any children from the marriage will almost certainly take their surname from their father. It remains exceedingly rare for a Belgian woman to transmit her surname to her children, and I believe it is even rarer amongst the nobility.

Any children also will not inherit their mother's HRH or territorial designation "of Belgium". The predicate HRH and the title Prince/ss of Belgium are no longer hereditary, except for the children and grandchildren of the King or Crown Princess, under the Royal Decree of November 24, 2015.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2015-11-24&numac=2015021075&caller=list

However, Article 4 of the decree refers to "Princes and Princesses" who descend from King Leopold I but are not Princes and Princesses "of Belgium". Prince Amedeo's children appear to fall under that category, as his daughter Anna Astrid was entered into her birth certificate as "Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine)" (emphasis added). Moreover, the Royal Palace has always given her the style of Princess Anna Astrid (rather than Archduchess Anna Astrid).

https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-16.html#post2117594

But it is unclear if Princess Maria Laura's possible children would be styled in the same way, being children of a Princess instead of a Prince. Although Article 4 of the Royal Decree says nothing about "male line", titles of nobility such as Prince/ss are normally transmitted in the male line only.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq

 

[Mbruno]

I wonder what will happen concerning the titles of Princess Maria Laura, her future husband William Isvy, and any possible children of the marriage.


The princess:

Princess Maria Laura's official style will certainly continue to be HRH Princess Maria Laura, in the same way that her mother (since the succession changes of 1991) is officially styled as HRH Princess Astrid, Princess of Belgium.

https://www.monarchie.be/en/royal-family/princess-astrid

However, if Laura and William continue to live in Britain, I wonder if she will call herself Mrs. Isvy in private life, in accordance with British custom.


Her future husband:

William Isvy will not acquire any legal titles; Prince Amedeo's wife Lili Rosboch did not.

However, the Royal Palace currently styles Lili by courtesy as Princess Elisabetta Rosboch von Wolkenstein, which is often shortened to Princess Elisabetta.

https://www.lesoir.be/246315/articl...dit-le-prince-amedeo-et-sa-femme-annoncent-la
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-17.html#post2186635

Will the Palace likewise give William Isvy the courtesy style of Prince William Isvy or Prince William after marriage? Probably not, as there is little to no modern precedent in the nobility for a man to be addressed with his spouse's title even as a courtesy, but unlike the nobility, the royal family has introduced gender-equal succession for the descendants of King Albert II.


The possible future children of the marriage:

Any children from the marriage will almost certainly take their surname from their father. It remains exceedingly rare for a Belgian woman to transmit her surname to her children, and I believe it is even rarer amongst the nobility.

Any children also will not inherit their mother's HRH or territorial designation "of Belgium". The predicate HRH and the title Prince/ss of Belgium are no longer hereditary, except for the children and grandchildren of the King or Crown Princess, under the Royal Decree of November 24, 2015.

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2015-11-24&numac=2015021075&caller=list

However, Article 4 of the decree refers to "Princes and Princesses" who descend from King Leopold I but are not Princes and Princesses "of Belgium". Prince Amedeo's children appear to fall under that category, as his daughter Anna Astrid was entered into her birth certificate as "Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine)" (emphasis added). Moreover, the Royal Palace has always given her the style of Princess Anna Astrid (rather than Archduchess Anna Astrid).

https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique
https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-16.html#post2117594

But it is unclear if Princess Maria Laura's possible children would be styled in the same way, being children of a Princess instead of a Prince. Although Article 4 of the Royal Decree says nothing about "male line", titles of nobility such as Prince/ss are normally transmitted in the male line only.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq

There is some confusion as to whether Anna-Astrid and Maximilian are referred to as Princess/Prince based on their membership of the House of Austria-Este or as a consequence of Art 4 of the Royal Decree of 2015. Hopefully, that will be clarified once and for all when Princess Maria Laura has children of her own as they will be the first great-grandchildren of King Albert II who are not entitled to the style of HRH and the title of Prince or Princess of Belgium under the Royal Decree of 2015 and do not hold any other royal title inherited in paternal line.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Most likely she will remain known as prinses Maria Laura, like her aunts are always referred to as prinses Marie-Christine, prinses Maria Esmeralda and prinses Margareta. Her sister-in-law is usually mentioned as prinses Elisabetta.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Most likely she will remain known as prinses Maria Laura, like her aunts are always referred to as prinses Marie-Christine, prinses Maria Esmeralda and prinses Margareta. Her sister-in-law is usually mentioned as prinses Elisabetta.

Who is Margareta? But yes, the Palace refers to her great-aunts as Princess Esmeralda and Princess Marie-Christine. However, Esmeralda (who lives in England) and Marie-Christine (who lives in the United States) use their husbands' surnames in their private lives.

Her mother Princess Astrid, who as I said above is known officially as HRH Princess Astrid, and who lives in Belgium, does not use her husband's surname and signs her correspondence "Astrid of Belgium".

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Who is Margareta? But yes, the Palace refers to her great-aunts as Princess Esmeralda and Princess Marie-Christine. However, Esmeralda (who lives in England) and Marie-Christine (who lives in the United States) use their husbands' surnames in their private lives.

Her mother Princess Astrid, who as I said above is known officially as HRH Princess Astrid, and who lives in Belgium, does not use her husband's surname and signs her correspondence "Astrid of Belgium".

Margareta is a daughter of Maria Laura's Luxembourg grandparents Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. She is married to a Liechtenstein Prince but usually she is popularly referred to as prinses Margareta. The three Benelux countries are very similar, due to shared history. The three younger daughters of Queen Juliana, irrespective their husbands' surnames and eventual titles kept their known style too. Like in Belgium and Luxembourg they also remained known as prinses Irene, prinses Margriet, prinses Christina as that simply is their commonly known style, for a lifetime.

 

[Somebody]

Margaretha is not an aunt (nor greataunt) of Maria Laura. Just one of her mother's paternal cousins. Jean and Josephine-Charlotte aren't her grandparents either but her greataunt and greatuncle. Josephine-Charlotte was her grandfather Albert's elder sister, while Maria Esmeralda and Marie Christine are his younger half-sisters.

And Margaretha, just like her sister Marie-Astrid, married a fellow royal and not a commoner. So, of course she is known as princess as she is both a princess vuz Liechtenstein (by marriage) and a princess of Luxembourg etc (by birth). So, her situation is not comparanle to that of Maria Laura.

 

[Stefan]

Margareta is a daughter of Maria Laura's Luxembourg grandparents Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. She is married to a Liechtenstein Prince but usually she is popularly referred to as prinses Margareta. .

But what is wrong about that. As she has married a Prince.
And btw. i didn't know that Maria Laura is a granddaughter of Jean and Joséphine-Charlotte. I always thought Joséphine-Charlotte was her great-aunt

 

[Tatiana Maria]

As it has to do with a post I am writing, I am copying a couple of old comments to this thread.


Looking once again at Princess Anna Astrid's birth registration, it lists her as

Son Altesse Impériale et Royale la Princesse Anna Astrid Marie Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)

Translation:

Her Imperial and Royal Highness Princess Anna Astrid Marie Archduchess of Austria-Este (Habsburg-Lorraine)


https://www.lesoir.be/53935/article...ur-les-princes-qui-ne-seront-plus-de-belgique​

As shown in the rules of the Belgian national register, the only titles of nobility that are registered with a designation are "King/Queen of the Belgians", "Prince/ss of Belgium" and "Duke/Duchess of Brabant". All other titles of nobility are legally in the form "Prince/ss", "Duke/Duchess" etc. without further designation, even if they are associated with a surname (which is a separate thing).

https://www.ibz.rrn.fgov.be/fileadm...ructions/liste-TI/TI012_Titre_de_noblesse.pdf

code titre : le titre de noblesse est codé par 2 chiffres conformément au tableau ci-dessous :
01
Prince
02
Princesse
03
Duc
04
Duchesse
05
Marquis
06
Marquise
07
Comte
08
Comtesse
09
Vicomte
10
Vicomtesse
11
Baron
12
Baronne
13
Chevalier
15
Ecuyer
17
Archiduc
18
Archiduchesse
19
Grand-Duc
20
Grande-Duchesse
21
Roi des Belges
22
Reine des Belges
23
Prince de Belgique
24
Princesse de Belgique
25
Duc de Brabant,
Prince de Belgique
26
Duchesse de Brabant,
Princesse de Belgique
​

As seen in the regulations above, "Princesse" and "Archiduchesse" are recognized as legal titles in the national registration, whereas "Archiduchesse d'Autriche-Este" is not. Under the legal rules, "d'Autriche-Este" is part of the surname: "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)".

 

[maria-olivia]

The Children of Prince Amadeo are not Princes of Belgium anymore
Princess Maria Laura will keep her title her whole life.

It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.
Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Because TRF's security settings are not allowing me to post multiple links in one comment, these are the decrees I am quoting in the next post. (If a moderator could merge or edit the posts, I would appreciate it.)

Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Prince Amedeo, in Dutch
Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Prince Amedeo, in French

Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Princess Maria Laura, in Dutch
Royal decree consenting to the marriage of Princess Maria Laura, in French

 

[Tatiana Maria]

For Belgian legal purposes, the surname of Prince Lorenz and his male-line descendants is "d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" (see the explanation in the post I made in this thread on March 3).


However, the surname did not appear in the 2015 royal decree declaring the King's retroactive consent to Prince Amedeo's marriage.

Enig artikel. Instemming wordt verleend met het huwelijk van Zijne Koninklijke Hoogheid Prins Amedeo, Prins van België, met Mevrouw Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, voltrokken op 5 juli 2014.

Consentement est accordé au mariage de Son Altesse Royale le Prince Amedeo, Prince de Belgique, avec Madame Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, célébré le 5 juillet 2014.

(Consent is given for the marriage of His Royal Highness Prince Amedeo, Prince of Belgium, to Mrs. Elisabetta Maria Rosboch von Wolkenstein, conducted on 5 July 2014.)

​

So, it is interesting that the surname did appear in the royal decree declaring the king's consent to Princess Maria Laura's marriage (which I will write about shortly in her engagement thread).

Interestingly, even in the Dutch version of the decree, the French version of the princess's surname is used.

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

(The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.)

​

(The links to the decrees are in the previous post.)


I would be interested in knowing why the legal surname was used for Maria Laura but omitted for her brother Amedeo, especially seeing as Amedeo has used both "of Belgium" and "of Habsburg" professionally, whereas Laura has used only "of Belgium".

And why is the French version of the surname used in the Dutch version of the decree? The proper Dutch translation would be "van Oostenrijk-Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)".

 

[An Ard Ri]

The Children of Prince Amadeo are not Princes of Belgium anymore
Princess Maria Laura will keep her title her whole life.

It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.
Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.

Yes Princess Marie-Esméralda of Belgium has the additional British title of Lady Moncada as the wife of a knight.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

It will be Monsieur William Isvy et la Princesse Maria Laura.

That is my prediction as well, but nothing has been confirmed officially.

Such as Sir Salvador Moncada and Princess Esmeralda.

Yes Princess Marie-Esméralda of Belgium has the additional British title of Lady Moncada as the wife of a knight.

Under the law of Britain, she is entitled, though not required, to use Lady Moncada, the feminine form of her husband's title.

Under the law of Belgium, she is not legally allowed to use a foreign title of nobility, as a Belgian citizen.

https://diplomatie.belgium.be/en/services/Protocol/nobility_and_honorary_distinctions/nobility/faq

11. As a Belgian, can I use a foreign title of nobility?

No. This is even a punishable act under art. 230 of the Belgian Criminal Code.
Foreign titles awarded to Belgians therefore have no value in Belgium; moreover, they can never be the subject of a recognition procedure.​

However, I imagine Princess Esmeralda would still be allowed to use Mrs. Moncada under Belgian law.

 

[Somebody]

Regarding the use of foreign titles... It's interesting that on the one hand it states that a Belgian cannot use a foreign title but the explanation focuses on not having value 'in Belgium' and the impossibility of having the title recognized (in Belgium I suppose). Which seems to leave room for the possibility of using the title outside of Belgium.

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince Lorenz uses 4 tittles abroad .

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Lorenz uses 4 tittles abroad .

Does Prince Lorenz's wife Princess Astrid use four titles abroad?

 

[An Ard Ri]

Does Prince Lorenz's wife Princess Astrid use four titles abroad?

I've only ever seen Princess Astrid of Belgium, Archduchess of Austria-Este.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

The one occasion for which I have read that Princess Astrid used both her own title and her husband's title/surname (Princess of Belgium and Archduchess of Austria-Este) after Belgium's adoption of equal primogeniture was in the Royal Family section of the 2017 edition of Le Carnet Mondain (as it was quoted in a Le Soir article discussed earlier in this thread). On that occasion, she also used Duchess of Saxony and Princess of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha, like the other male-line descendants of King Leopold I. (However, the information was communicated to Le Carnet Mondain by the Palace, not by the princess personally.)

In all other contexts and documents (including the official website of the Belgian monarchy at monarchie.be) I have only seen Astrid use her official title of HRH Princess Astrid, Princess of Belgium or shortened versions (HRH Princess Astrid, Astrid of Belgium, etc.).

 

[maria-olivia]

I don't remember how she was called when King Baudouin was still living ? They lived in Bale.

 

[Stefan]

So, it is interesting that the surname did appear in the royal decree declaring the king's consent to Princess Maria Laura's marriage (which I will write about shortly in her engagement thread).

Interestingly, even in the Dutch version of the decree, the French version of the princess's surname is used.

De door artikel 85, tweede lid, van de Grondwet voorziene toestemming tot het huwelijk van Hare Koninklijke Hoogheid Prinses Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Prinses van België, met de Heer William Isvy, wordt verleend.

Est accordé le consentement prévu à l'article 85, alinéa 2, de la Constitution au mariage de Son Altesse Royale la Princesse Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princesse de Belgique, avec Monsieur William Isvy.

(The consent as foreseen in Article 85, second paragraph, of the Constitution is given for the marriage of Her Royal Highness Princess Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine), Princess of Belgium, to Mr. William Isvy.)

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(The links to the decrees are in the previous post.)


I would be interested in knowing why the legal surname was used for Maria Laura but omitted for her brother Amedeo, especially seeing as Amedeo has used both "of Belgium" and "of Habsburg" professionally, whereas Laura has used only "of Belgium".

And why is the French version of the surname used in the Dutch version of the decree? The proper Dutch translation would be "van Oostenrijk-Este (Habsburg-Lotharingen)".

Princess of Austria-Este is wrong anyway as it then not Princess but Archduchess and not Royal Highness but Imperial and Royal Highness.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Princess of Austria-Este is wrong anyway as it then not Princess but Archduchess and not Royal Highness but Imperial and Royal Highness.

It must be read as princesse (Belgian title of nobility) in combination with d'Autriche-Este (surname). After the comma follows the "functional title" princesse de Belgique.

But Belgium is not known for being precize. It looks inconsistent.

 

[Stefan]

It must be read as princesse (Belgian title of nobility) in combination with d'Autriche-Este (surname). After the comma follows the "functional title" princesse de Belgique.

But Belgium is not known for being precize. It looks inconsistent.

Then it would make more sense to have HRH Maria Laura d'Autriche-Este, Princess of Belgium.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Princess/Prince has always preceded the royal person's first name, whether or not the surname is used. See how Princess Claire was noted in the official announcement about her conferral with the Order of Leopold.

Bij koninklijk besluit van 14 juli 2004 werd benoemd :
Grootlint
Prinses Claire Coombs, Prinses van België.

Par arrêté royal du 14 juillet 2004 a été nommée :
Grand Cordon
la Princesse Claire Coombs, Princesse de Belgique.

(By royal decree of 14 July 2004 was awarded:
Grand Ribbon
Princess Claire Coombs, Princess of Belgium.)

https://www.ejustice.just.fgov.be/c..._date=2005-01-05&numac=2004015232&caller=list​

Coombs is the legal surname of Princess Claire.

"d'Autriche-Este (Habsbourg-Lorraine)" is the legal surname of Princess Maria Laura. (Refer to the explanation in the post on March 3: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...elgian-royal-family-38975-24.html#post2455661)


And the designation of Princess/Prince preceding the first name is independent of the functional title of Princess/Prince of Belgium. Maria Laura's niece Anna Astrid is registered as Princess Anna Astrid but, under the royal decree of 2015, does not have the title Princess of Belgium.