The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 2010-2023

[JR76]

Originally Posted by Hans-Rickard

That must be paid by someone. The only one willing to do that is by all likelyhood Andrew.

The Queen stepping in and paying for a grand public wedding of nr 9 in line to the throne would at the current circumstances just be another major pr-disaster.

I feel terribly sad for Beatrice in all this. She and Eugenie are the ones that are definitely innocent in all this. But it will inevitably hit very hard on them too:(

If granny pays for the wedding of her granddaughter out of her own pocket then what business is it of ours.

[amaryllus]

Andrew still has a personal fortune. It’s not like he was stripped of that. But We can Safely assume The Payment Arraignment will be The same as Eugenias.

[royal-blue]

If Andrew gets subpoenaed to the US, and is still front page news in 6 months time, it may not be appropriate for him to attend the wedding.

Perhaps he should surrender his titles of Prince and Duke altogether and live a life totally out of public view.

[Denville]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Virginia Roberts never actually accused Andrew of Raping her IIRC.

Anyway I understand your point but having Sympathy and Empathy for Epstein victims is totally divorced from Having Understanding And empathy for a Daughter who must be reeling and hurt from learning the father she adored was doing this. The two Sets of feelings aren’t mutually Exclusive Or they should not be.

Again, she is not a working Royal. She should have the wedding of her dreams. I can’t see she needs cameras for that but if that’s what she wants so be it.

Will it really look good if Bea is asking tax payers to pay for her wedding,at present? Will it be very comfortable for her if her father's booed?

[amaryllus]

But she won’t be will she? The vast Majority of it will be privately funded.some portion of the public will always grumble about large Royal related events either way. It will pass.

She and Andrew and of course her groom will have to choose: have the Traditional father daughter moment and ignore The hecklers or not want to deal with it and have him appear at the private celebrations afterwards. It needs to be their choice and theirs alone.

[Ista]

The Guardian is reporting that Andrew intends to continue to work with Pitch@Palace:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nt-at-subpoena


I am shaking my head at the yet another tone deaf decision. It's beginning to feel like the wheels really are coming off the bus.

[amaryllus]

Where is the Queen in all this? I am beginning to think something is wrong here. To many questionable decisions and actions among her kids and grandchildren are being let fly.

[royal-blue]

Originally Posted by crm2317

...the royal family now appears fractured. With the reported fall-out between William and Harry and this episode with the Duke of York it no longer seems like a united group of people. That it is the beginning of the end of a monarchy in the UK...

I disagree that this is the beginning of the end of the monarchy, but the problem with having two dozen members of the family in the public eye, is the increased likelihood of scandal. The current number of royals is far too big, but if it was just, HM, Charles, William (and spouses) that is also not enough people.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by Osipi

Question now is will Andrew participate as a "family member" on the balcony along with other members that are viewing the events or will Andrew still be in full military dress? I would think with the latest developments, the military's definition of "an officer and a gentleman" is a far cry from describing Andrew.

Unfortunately it's all too often military members behave badly in various way and covering for each other is part of it as well. That doesn't matter what country they are from.

In the US Military adultery (for example) is supposed to be a serious offense ..but you are rarely going to see any of them punished for it.



LaRae

[amaryllus]

Because Adultery is a moral crime. It is not however a legal one as long as it is between two consenting adults.

[Pranter]

Originally Posted by amaryllus

Because Adultery is a moral crime. It is not however a legal one as long as it is between two consenting adults.

Have you read the military code of justice? It's a punishable offense.


LaRae

[amaryllus]

It’s out of date, From another era like so many other laws on the books. No one enforces them because they are not considered important enough to waste time and money and manpower investigating.

[Pranter]

The whole point of my original comment was that the service members may do some great things and some of them are heros, but they still have their own failings and covering for their own happens etc. It's not a debate about the relevance of military rules and regulations.



LaRae

[Minister of Court]

The Queen should denounce him publicly in her Christmas speech.

[Tatiana Maria]

Regarding the comments about the Duke of York's statement possibly leaving the door open for a return to public life: If the article linked earlier from ITV (https://www.itv.com/news/2019-11-20/...for-some-time/) is an accurate recap of what the palace has stated, the Duke of York is not to return unless (1) he has been cleared of wrongdoing or (2) the victims of Mr. Epstein have received the answers to their questions and the case has been closed. Given that the Duke is, to our knowledge, not the subject of any legal proceedings, it is difficult to imagine what official body would have the authority to declare him exonerated. It is also not likely that the cases relating to Jeffrey Epstein will be resolved in the short term; it has been widely reported that the pending lawsuits are expected to last for many years. Therefore, even if the Duke's retirement was not explicitly stated to be permanent, he has a high bar to clear before he can even consider a return to public life.

Originally Posted by Zaira

Its not about being blamed. Eugenie's wedding being as public as it was caused significant debate--and that was before all this occurred.

I think the writing has been on the wall for a while about Beatrice's wedding being much, much lower key than her sister's. But now with her father in disgrace, there is really no possibility for a big public wedding.

It is terrible for the daughters, but again, young women were raped. So I find I have little sympathy to extend to a rich lady who will still have an amazing wedding if she wants---just not on the taxpayers dime or in front of cameras. Those two things are not essential for one to have the wedding they wish.

The issue is not really Princess Beatrice's wedding (which I doubt she or the rest of the royal family are thinking of at this time), but whether the Duke's daughters - who were children at the time - ought to be blamed for his wrongdoings. I see no contradiction between having sympathy for victims of rape and having sympathy for innocent women who are wrongly blamed for the actions of men in their families.

But if the public's concern over the impending wedding is not about blaming Beatrice - and I hope you are right in that respect - then their opposition to a public wedding ought to also apply to the weddings of other members of the royal family who are similarly situated (for example, the future weddings of Louise, James, and Archie). In any case, I wonder if perhaps we might continue the wedding discussion, if necessary, in the wedding thread (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2263145).

[Dman]

Prince Andrew has officially stepped down as Chancellor of Huddersfield University and the University will appoint their own Chancellor-
https://mobile.twitter.com/chrisship...20319134752769

[Hans-Rickard]

His Garter insignia should be ordered back. And The Duke of York (Earl of Inverness and Baron Killyleagh) title should go back to the Crown now and not wait until upon his death... Being a Knight of the Garter (the finest and highest ranked order of the realm) and The Duke of York should be something one should deserve every day by his way of living and not in anyones ”right for life” just because you were once upon a time considered deserving of it...

He is born as H.R.H The Prince Andrew. And he is also a Knight Grand Cross of the Royal Victorian Order, wich is entirely for personal service to the monarch. So he wouldn’t exactly become the commoner Mr Andrew Mountbatten-Windsor, even if he is stripped of his finest appointments...

[Mirabel]

Originally Posted by Minister of Court

The Queen should denounce him publicly in her Christmas speech.

I disagree.
No matter what, he is still her son, and she loves him.
I don't think anyone would expect her to publicly denounce him.

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Tatiana Maria

But if the public's concern over the impending wedding is not about blaming Beatrice - and I hope you are right in that respect - then their opposition to a public wedding ought to also apply to the weddings of other members of the royal family who are similarly situated (for example, the future weddings of Louise, James, and Archie). In any case, I wonder if perhaps we might continue the wedding discussion, if necessary, in the wedding thread (http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post2263145).

I have long assumed that those three in bold will not have public weddings. The closest to public they may have is a Zara style wedding or something like what Lady Gabriella had.

I think the big weddings like we saw with Kate and William or Harry and Meghan with military, wall to wall coverage and all that jazz will be reserved only for William's children and then George's children (if the BRF is even still a thing).

[Zaira]

Originally Posted by Ista

The Guardian is reporting that Andrew intends to continue to work with Pitch@Palace:


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...nt-at-subpoena


I am shaking my head at the yet another tone deaf decision. It's beginning to feel like the wheels really are coming off the bus.

I have honestly been amazed at the all over the place information. Each paper and reporter has a different understanding about what is going on and what will happen. For example, last I read this morning (!!) is that Pitch@Palace was going to be moved to either another royal or into a separate entity from Andrew.