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  #1661  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:26 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
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They unsealed the indictment. The feds found a stash of nude photos of underage girls in Epstein's mansion

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nyt...arges.amp.html


The ick factor is going to be strong here.
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  #1662  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
I'm sure we all know people we consider 'close', without having the least idea as to their sexual proclivities ?
Of course we would. There are factors like the length of time, would they have attended events where these things happened at, first reaction after they had to know (when we, the public that do not know Epstein personal, all found out) and so on.

Andrew doesn't make it easy when we have a photograph of him with his arm around a very young woman with Ghislane Maxwell, who is in up to her eyeballs in all of this. Him having known Epstein for at least 10 years. And then his continued association with Epstein even after he has served the sweetheart deal and became a registered sex offender. It was only when it became obvious that this is too big to ignore that he cut off contact or rather won't be seen with him again according to the statement. It's a bit difficult to claim ignorance at that point. All of this doesn't mean he's guilty of a crime, but it's also hard to argue he doesn't know and wouldn't have at least turned a blind eye to what was going on.
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  #1663  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
One 'may smile and smile, and still be a villain' [Hamlet Act 1, scene 5].'

I'm sure we all know people we consider 'close', without having the least idea as to their sexual proclivities ?
I completely agree and I know it might seem incredulous to some people but it's possible to be quite naive about what others get up to if your life is fairly straightforward. I was astounded once to find out something about a friend - genuinely shocked.

However, once we do know that a friend has been involved in (whatever) we can't un-know it. We can't then claim to be innocent of their activities & that's where I find it disturbing that Prince Andrew was photographed walking & talking with Epstein on a private visit after he was registered as a sex offender.
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  #1664  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:41 PM
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Unfortunately it's not uncommon for people to find out that a friend has been charged with sex offenses and they are truly shocked and disgusted to realise it. Andrew though had passed the line for being able to claim no knowledge of it and was still seen with him, not to mention the photos of him with his arm around a young girl at a party. I don't think many of Epstein's "friends" and acquaintances were particularly surprised.

I'd be surprised if he faced any legal issue though, even if further allegations did come out. 3 years ago there were headlines like "I was Prince Andrew's Sex Slave" in the UK press and it ended up petering out and not going anywhere. I'm not sure things have changed that much, but I might be wrong.
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  #1665  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
The only one I'm aware of being prosecuted is Epstein. No one else has been indicted for any crimes other than Epstein. With as much money and influence that Mr. Epstein has, I'm sure he has a very wide circle of friends and acquaintances and associates. The only thing the any of them right now have on them is being linked to Epstein. Guilty by association is not a crime nor should it be a judgment.

It should prove to be an interesting case though.
In my mind there are several categories of Epstein ‘friends.’ People like Katie Couric, Woody Allen, and President Trump for example, who admit they were his friend and/or are known to have associated with him. People like former U.S. president Clinton and Sarah Ferguson for example, who are known to have accepted favors from him like flying in his jet or in Sarah’s case taking money from him to help pay off her debts. And people who allegedly had trysts with Epstein’s young victims like attorney and Harvard professor Alan Dershowitz and Prince Andrew, for example. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...ex-allegations https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...t-allegations/)
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Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Virtually nobody knows this Epstein (at least I´ve never heard of him before), but the Prince is known worldwide over. So I think his name was included in this story because it sells and without it hardly anybody would care!
This thread started almost a decade ago, I suspect that a lot of people know about Epstein and the perversion of Justice his plea deal with then U.S. attorney (now Trump appointee U.S. Labor secretary) Alexander Acosta represents. There are enough big names in play, including the current and a former U.S. president, that Andrew is almost small potatoes at this point.
Indeed, so far the current press coverage is focused on Epstein’s powerful friends and I’ve yet to see more than a passing reference to Andrew as one of them. This article has a summary of many facets of the saga
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...220097825.html
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  #1666  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
This thread started almost a decade ago, I suspect that a lot of people know about Epstein and the perversion of Justice his plea deal with then U.S. attorney (now Trump appointee U.S. Labor secretary) Alexander Acosta represents. There are enough big names in play, including the current and a former U.S. president, that Andrew is almost small potatoes at this point.
Indeed, so far the press coverage is focused on Epstein’s powerful friends and I’ve yet to see more than a passing reference to Andrew. This article has a summary of many facets of the saga
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/loc...220097825.html
I do agree with that. While Andrew's name in this matter might generate headlines in UK, and a headache for the BRF, it's not anything major this side of the pond. Epstein's own name is the headline. Andrew's name doesn't have much to do with the attention this story has attracted here.
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  #1667  
Old 07-08-2019, 03:48 PM
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Wasn't Andrew spotted out with Epstein after the first set of chargers were being talked about in the media? That suggests he isn't too fussed about the allegations IMO.
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  #1668  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Wasn't Andrew spotted out with Epstein after the first set of chargers were being talked about in the media? That suggests he isn't too fussed about the allegations IMO.
The allegations against Andrew are not new either.. They had already surfaced in the previous Florida case.
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  #1669  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Wasn't Andrew spotted out with Epstein after the first set of chargers were being talked about in the media? That suggests he isn't too fussed about the allegations IMO.
That sighting of the two in Central Park was the same weekend that Epstein had the big dinner party with Woody Allen, Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos etc., including Andrew. If these well-connected mainstream media personalities and internationally known figures disregarded the sex offender allegations and subsequent jail time, lenient as it may have been, it would send a clear signal to others that Jeffrey is back, is a worthy person, and the sex crime business is all some pesky nonsense that is firmly in the past. I think Epstein was planning on that.

I had read that the dinner was thrown in Prince Andrew's honor. That in itself may have been such an interesting draw for the NY media people that they just pushed the sex offender stuff aside to get an up-close experience with HRH Prince Andrew, The Duke of York .. and perhaps get him to agree to an interview on their TV programs.
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  #1670  
Old 07-08-2019, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Leopoldine View Post
That sighting of the two in Central Park was the same weekend that Epstein had the big dinner party with Woody Allen, Katie Couric, George Stephanopoulos etc., including Andrew. If these well-connected mainstream media personalities and internationally known figures disregarded the sex offender allegations and subsequent jail time, lenient as it may have been, it would send a clear signal to others that Jeffrey is back, is a worthy person, and the sex crime business is all some pesky nonsense that is firmly in the past. I think Epstein was planning on that.

I had read that the dinner was thrown in Prince Andrew's honor. That in itself may have been such an interesting draw for the NY media people that they just pushed the sex offender stuff aside to get an up-close experience with HRH Prince Andrew, The Duke of York .. and perhaps get him to agree to an interview on their TV programs.
I do agree with your second paragraph. Having a prince of UK attend a party certainly brings in the who's who of upper society. As unsavory as it is for them to associate with Epstein, they aren't children of a head of state. Nor do they carry out engagements on behalf of that head of state and government.
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  #1671  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerry View Post
I cannot imagine that HRH Prince Andrew could be so stupid as to be implicated in sex with minors. Even his former wife knew to restrict herself to adults!
I think the problem (for those implicated in this case) is not stupidity, but that those who are rich and powerful frequently assume that they are untouchable. And are often right.
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  #1672  
Old 07-08-2019, 05:37 PM
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This story about Epstein will run and run mostly because of his high profile friends whether they be guilty or innocent of any crime. The Lolita Express was talked about a few years. Thats what they called his flights of underaged girls to his private island.

I just hope that anyone who is guilty is squirming right now knowing that this time Justice might actually be served upon their disgusting low life heads. Girls lives have been ruined.

However, it will not be fair if some decent person has their reputation destroyed just by association with Epstein. Not everyone associated with Epstein is guilty of a crime.

13 year old girls deserve the right not to be preyed upon. Do we wrap them in cotton wool or explain the harsh realities of life to them. Hopefully most kids are more informed about the big bad world out there.
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  #1673  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:10 PM
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While Mr Epstein's case is likely to mar a lot of influential people in the democratic regimes, the fallout of the case will not be immense. Corruption and lawyers will soften possible blows to reputations of the aforementioned people.
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  #1674  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:45 PM
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The Southern District of New York (SDNY) charges are new. The documents being unsealed are from a civil suit brought against Ms Maxwell by one of the victims. The Florida plea bargain may be thrown out.





https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffre...-minors-source


The Daily Beast has followed the Epstein case for years.
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  #1675  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
While Mr Epstein's case are likely to mar a lot of influential people in the democratic regimes, the fallout of the case will not be immense. Corruption and lawyers will soften possible blows to reputations of the aforementioned people.
You don't seem to like the 'democratic regimes' but this is perhaps not the place for such criticism. I assume that there's no corruption in Kazakhstan......
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  #1676  
Old 07-08-2019, 06:56 PM
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This ain't going away for the BRF

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mer...ns-arrest/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...al-family.html

Fergie is dragged into this, and with no HRH in front of her name she has no protection. If the Florida plea deal is tossed Andrew may get dragged into this. I feel bad for Beatrice and Eugenie.
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  #1677  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Wasn't Andrew spotted out with Epstein after the first set of chargers were being talked about in the media? That suggests he isn't too fussed about the allegations IMO.
I don't agree with your conclusion for no other reason that many other notable people committed the heinous act of standing by their friend.

The fact that, in the eyes of the world, he was convicted on charges that almost equated to misdemeanours and was going to work during his sentence. If you are not a from the US it would be easy to say wow, they almost destroyed my reputation by association for this? I don't believe it.

Looking from the outside you would say that he pled guilty and served his sentence and, just like the rest of the US you would say well, what was that all about. Few that are not part of the 1% could imagine that justice could be corrupted to the degree that it seems it has been.

I am sure that many of his friends are reeling from the arrest and its reasons, horrified and in a state of disbelief that the justice system and penal reason could be bought. That is corruption on a grand scale. How could it happen? I am not worried about Epstein as I am sure justice will be delivered squeaky clean in NY.

I am more worried about the people that enabled a paedophile to basically get off scot-free.
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  #1678  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I don't agree with your conclusion for no other reason that many other notable people committed the heinous act of standing by their friend.

The fact that, in the eyes of the world, he was convicted on charges that almost equated to misdemeanours and was going to work during his sentence. If you are not a from the US it would be easy to say wow, they almost destroyed my reputation by association for this? I don't believe it.

Looking from the outside you would say that he pled guilty and served his sentence and, just like the rest of the US you would say well, what was that all about. Few that are not part of the 1% could imagine that justice could be corrupted to the degree that it seems it has been.

I am sure that many of his friends are reeling from the arrest and its reasons, horrified and in a state of disbelief that the justice system and penal reason could be bought. That is corruption on a grand scale. How could it happen? I am not worried about Epstein as I am sure justice will be delivered squeaky clean in NY.

I am more worried about the people that enabled a paedophile to basically get off scot-free.
I’m sorry, but he was a convicted felon at that point. It was not a misdemeanor. He served little time and allowed to work away because he got special treatment, not because the crime he did plead guilty to is no big deal. They all knew, including Andrew, by that point he pled guilty to soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14. That was known information, not buried somewhere in the fine print. If that does not disgust people, regardless of anything else in the public domain, I’m not sure much will.

None of his friends should be shocked at the reasons for his arrest. Maybe the fact that he was actually arrested and is actually brought to face charges.
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  #1679  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
This ain't going away for the BRF

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mer...ns-arrest/amp/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...al-family.html

Fergie is dragged into this, and with no HRH in front of her name she has no protection. If the Florida plea deal is tossed Andrew may get dragged into this. I feel bad for Beatrice and Eugenie.

I seriously doubt that charges will be brought against Andrew or Fergie. Their reputation may take a dive though depending on how the press covers the case. Right now, the focus doesn't seem to be on the Yorks.
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  #1680  
Old 07-08-2019, 10:39 PM
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Let’s keep In mind that Andrew’s connection to this man is not simply that he saw him at parties, including once after the conviction, not is it a single image of him with one of the alleged victims. They were close enough that he hosted Epstein for long weekends on several occasions, reportedly at Windsor and Sandringham. He stayed for at least one lengthy visit at the Epstein mansion in Florida that was, according to several sources, decorated extensively with nude photos of underage girls—not tucked away, but framed and hung in stairwells for visitors to see exactly what kind of guy their host was. The prince was photographed on a yacht with Epstein and three topless young women. Those are details that were basically confirmed at the time of the initial lawsuit. There are allegations of Andrew being involved in more sordid things but setting those aside, these are the details we can depend on as being accurate. And they indicate a close friendship, significant time spent together, and that Andrew had at least some exposure to Epstein’s seedy side.

Andrew likely wasn’t deep enough into Epstein’s world to be charged with anything himself, but he was certainly far enough in that his reputation could be permanently damaged by association by whatever details about his friend come to light. It already has been, to some extent. The scandal over his relationship with Epstein almost certainly played a role in Andrew’s loss of his beloved trade envoy position. But as this comes up all over again and more incriminating evidence about the company he kept hits the news, well, let’s just say that in the court of public opinion we are often judged by the company we keep...
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