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  #2341  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:12 PM
MARG's Avatar
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I am hanging out for an inditement, a request from the FBI via the State Department, to interview Andrew. There is no way the Queen or Prince Charles would allow him to dodge that. If said interview resulted in an arrest warrant and an inditement I shall watch with great interest what is said to have been said and done and by whom.

Needless to say, the Prosecution would field their case and Andrew and his Lawyer would rebut the claims. The jury would make a finding. Alternatively, they could empanel a Grand Jury and let the chips fall where they will.

Either way, I am not comfortable with the insults to the BRF based on hearsay information. HM has done nothing but work hard for her country and is a woman of decency and integrity, so too is the POW (despite the marriage debacle from which nobody emerged as sainted).

I take issue with those who categorically state that they would endorse trafficking, rape and abuse for no other "reason" than they are of the Aristocracy or Royalty. Neither has committed any act that would lead one to suspect they are depraved!
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  #2342  
Old 09-20-2019, 09:42 PM
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Epstein Accusers Speak Out-
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  #2343  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:09 PM
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Oh my!

And the following might sound psycho brutal, but when it comes to Prince Andrew it is a case of "She says/He says". Like in so many cases of alleged sexual abuse very hard to prove, if it were abuse or consensual.

The girls were very good briefed. I think the blonde one in the middle of the front line was very impressive.
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  #2344  
Old 09-20-2019, 10:40 PM
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All this "trial by media" leaves me queasy!
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  #2345  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:16 PM
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This needs to go to court. You’re gonna get a ‘trial by public opinion’ until this is worked out through the court.
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  #2346  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:32 PM
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You have to have a case that is more than gossip and she said, he said. I do not believe there is a case to answer or we would have seen or heard something by now. While it probably wouldn't come from BP, if there are court filings, the journalists would have found them.

That is not to say that it is over. There was a virtual who's who listed in Epstein's contacts, and hundreds if not thousands of photographs and videos/DVD's found in his properties. Going through them, identifying the subjects and ascertaining as to whether or not they pertain to a felony will take time.
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  #2347  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:36 PM
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The thing though, Dman, is that there is nothing to indict Andrew on. I did watch the video you posted and to be honest, I'm kind of surprised that Guiffre went into details about her relationship with Andrew. Right now, as has been said here many times, Andrew's involvement with Guiffre (Roberts) at the time, are purely on the hearsay level of he said/she said.

One thing I know is that if Andrew's denials are true, wouldn't Andrew then have a good case to prosecute her for slander? I'll be honest here though as watching this woman tell of her assignations with Andrew, I don't believe that she's made it all up. Oh what a tangled web they weave eh?

Another point that I noticed is that Guiffre, at no time, said it was Andrew that forced her and actually was quite nice to her "afterwards". I think in a court of law, unless these assignations took place in a state/country where Guiffre would have been underage, there is not a danged thing that they can or would prosecute Andrew for. This doesn't excuse Andrew's ethics and morals at all but its not been proven that Andrew was abusive or coercive or anything but perhaps having what would be deemed as "consensual sex" between two people.
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  #2348  
Old 09-20-2019, 11:43 PM
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There’s gotta be a legal lane to take this. Cause this surely ain’t going away. Andrew can’t statement his way out of this. There’s gotta be some justice somewhere.
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  #2349  
Old 09-21-2019, 02:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
There’s gotta be a legal lane to take this. Cause this surely ain’t going away. Andrew can’t statement his way out of this. There’s gotta be some justice somewhere.


Frankly the only legal lane to take this is if Andrew filled for defamation. It’s not something we do in the UK though.

All that interview showed me, if any of it’s true, is that Virginia was in the UK and of legal consent age at the time. I don’t see what justice is needed for that.
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  #2350  
Old 09-21-2019, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by rob2008 View Post
The whole scénario is irresponsible and shows poor judgement. A prince of the blood should be 'squeaky clean' in all that he does.
I think that ship sailed long ago with regeard to Andrew
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  #2351  
Old 09-21-2019, 08:02 AM
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He could admit it and say that he thought she was ok with it as she didn't 't seem to be upset at the time. IMO that would go a long way to dufusing the situation as very few people are buying his constant denials. He clearly dosn' t want to admit it as he knows it's sleazy for a man in his 40's to be having sex with a teenager even if it isn't technically illegal.
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  #2352  
Old 09-21-2019, 09:46 AM
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Andrew better pray Epstein didn't videotape that incident ... and SDNY knows and has the tape and won't release until the next time in court. The constant denials will be seen as outright lies and cover up.
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  #2353  
Old 09-21-2019, 10:34 AM
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Alleged incident. If Andrew's innocent then the constant denials are factual statements. Unless new evidence turns up we're stuck with the she said/he said impasse.
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  #2354  
Old 09-21-2019, 10:38 AM
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Virginia Giuffre on Prince Andrew-
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/...mpression=true
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  #2355  
Old 09-21-2019, 12:59 PM
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New details reveal acrimonious split between Epstein and Duke of York

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/21/polit...ion/index.html
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  #2356  
Old 09-21-2019, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
I am hanging out for an indictement, a request from the FBI via the State Department, to interview Andrew. There is no way the Queen or Prince Charles would allow him to dodge that. If said interview resulted in an arrest warrant and an indictement I shall watch with great interest what is said to have been said and done and by whom.
i

There is no way the "said interview" can lead to an indictment, much less an "arrest warrant". First, there is no proof (yet) that Mrs Giuffre's story is true. Second, even if it is true, the alleged victim was above the age of consent at the time and she was not physically coerced into having sex, at least not by Prince Andrew for sure. So , if true, Andrew's conduct may be morally reprehensible, but I don't think it is criminal.



Andrew of course is denying the story and should be given the benefit of the doubt until proven guilty.
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  #2357  
Old 09-21-2019, 03:53 PM
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He needs to be retired. Either by The Queen, or The Prince of Wales. Whoever is most appropriate. Right now. End of story.
Whether he is innocent or guilty, the negative headlines inevitably taint the entire Royal Family and the causes with which he is associated, to their detriment.
In my field of work there is a thing called 'gardening leave.' The Duke of York's gardening leave must begin now.
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  #2358  
Old 09-21-2019, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irish_royalist View Post
He needs to be retired. Either by The Queen, or The Prince of Wales. Whoever is most appropriate. Right now. End of story.

Whether he is innocent or guilty, the negative headlines inevitably taint the entire Royal Family and the causes with which he is associated, to their detriment.

In my field of work there is a thing called 'gardening leave.' The Duke of York's gardening leave must begin now.
kinda agree as we Look to the delayed actions of the Spanish Royal family’s damage limitation plan against the allegations of corruption involving Princess Christina’s husband Inaki. Even if the duke of Palma was found innocent the damage to the reign of Juan Carlos was irreparable.
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  #2359  
Old 09-21-2019, 04:28 PM
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In the Spanish case, Inaki was found guilty in a court of law, and sentenced.

Prince Andrew has not yet been found guilty of anything. He has not even been subjected to a police inquiry yet.
These are pretty serious allegations against his reputation and moral habitus! - I think a "garden-leave" will be seen as a clear admission of guilt.

The last time I checked the British judicial system acted under the premises that you are presumed innocent until found guilty. Not Code Napoleon, where you de facto have to prove your innocence. - Not even for royals.
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  #2360  
Old 09-21-2019, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muhler View Post
In the Spanish case, Inaki was found guilty in a court of law, and sentenced.



Prince Andrew has not yet been found guilty of anything. He has not even been subjected to a police inquiry yet.

These are pretty serious allegations against his reputation and moral habitus! - I think a "garden-leave" will be seen as a clear admission of guilt.



The last time I checked the British judicial system acted under the premises that you are presumed innocent until found guilty. Not Code Napoleon, where you de facto have to prove your innocence. - Not even for royals.


The Spanish Royal House acted responsibly before any verdict of guilt. Are you suggesting the BRF should only act reactively in the final stages of an investigation after a lot of irreparable damage is inflicted on the whole lot?
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