Roshanah
Nobility
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2005
- Messages
- 466
- City
- Bandar
- Country
- Brunei
maryshawn said:Since the premise is Allah will be taking care of those who do not follow his laws on judgement day, does it not defy his powers by taking his "laws" and assurance he will take care of those not following them into a human being's hands and killing someone else? I would think this would be far more sacriligeous as it seeks to place oneself as the arbiter of what is just. I don't understand the rationale here but, then again, I don't see any honor in murder.
Nope, have to agree this is a no brainer. Murder, in anyone's name, is wrong. KA and others in power in the ME may have to stand up to those who are conducting "honor killings." But change must begin somewhere. If not now, when? I can't believe anyone within these Forums truly thinks this is a good thing and I am optimistic enough to hope others will not simply be content with saying "nothing can be done" and leave it at that. I sincerely hope a leader with moral courage will emerge and bring about needed reforms.
Oh, and I know all about "customs." But just because something is a "custom" does not in and of itself make it tolerable. The world is full of stories about horrid, senseless "customs" which mercifully have been taken on and overturned by those who can discern and support "right" from eggregious wrong.
What I meant was that Honour Kilings originate from the premise that If a Muslim (although at times the male has been unpunished) has conducted sexual relations outside of Marriage, in Islam this is seen a a major sin aka Haram act. In the East the act can actually shame a family and place them into perminent destitution. That's how it is. No offence meant. I'm not saying that I agree with the extremes that some of them have gone to, but one has to realise that in a place where there isn't a welfare infrustructure as is in the West, if they loose their good name that's it for them not just destitution but in certain past cases is has been worse. Murder OBVIOUSLY is dishonourable, but what you have to understand is that in CERTAIN cases a girl has robbed her family of their good name due to her unguarded behaviour. As such certian families have suffered by ways I cannot explain.
I never said that what is customery is tollerable, I'm merely saying that the East is founded upon a different infrsutructure and as such, change cannot be expected in the same way as it is within the West. Also, I'm not criticising the West by any means.
Finally, I must also politely point out that, If a person in the West chooses to have sexual relations outside the bonds of marriage, by legal statutes nothing comes of it. But try to imagin that your way of life, means of income and marrying in the future to a good person from a good family solely depended upon the state of one's virginity, one would view it differently.
Allah S.W.T. is most gracious, most merciful and oft forgiving indeed, but if a person breaks what is stated within the Qur'an and DOES NOT REPENT of it, only in this case Allah shan't be so to such a person (we are just referring to Muslims right now) Imagine a society based upon sex only within marriage and there was no other way to be, if one was rebellious and one paid for it by the most severe terms and one's family had to take the burden. If you were in that situation how would you feel about it then.
It's not just Islam either, Judaism has the same stance, also Mary Mother of Jesus when she was with Child the Jewish community threattend to stone her because they thought she had had sex before marriage. Even today Most Jewish families run by the same code hence they teach their children to save themselves until marriage.
It's not my saying that's the way it is, I'm saying read the Qur'an and the Torah and you'll see what I mean, if one was born into a society where such a Law exists and is upheld no matter what, one cannot expect to change the infrustructure by complely uprooting it and replacing it with another over time.
Don't twist my words and say that I think that Honour killings are fine and that's it , I'm saying sometimes (percieved rightly or wrongly) it has for some families been necessary and for others an excuse. If you don't understand what I'm saying after this than I can't say anymore about it. Oh and by the way the post originally was giving the background to Honour Killings and nothing more.
Oh and if you lived in Jordan like my friends do, a girl has to be a virgin when she marries (excluding if she is a divorcee or other extenuating circumstances) because if she isn't then serious matters would have arisen from it. I say again if you came from such a region you would understand. Also just because one person says it's deemed an atrocity doesn't necesssarily mean it is. ie homosexuality is deemed by monotheistic religious texts and religions to be an abomination, yet modernity and seperating the powers of church and state say to hell with it and allow it but when it suits them they claim they are of the aforementioned religions.
2nd in Oriental culture for example if a person lies to their familiy ie if they said they married when they didn't and the family made preperations etc inc publicising it to guests and then were told the truth the Parents would deem that as dishonour (even lets say it was done for a valid reason) it would be judged the same. Although some whould say the daughter or son of the family made a mistake and that's that, in Oriental culture it's seen as a LOT more than that and the Son or Daughter of the family would be excommunicated.
Pardon me for being so blunt, you come from a culture where this is not the case, and are judging the East by the standards of your culture. Not everywhere is the same, therefore the remedy to the "problems" or issues won't be the same.
As I said before in previous post No offence meant, I wonder if anyone read the no offence bit?
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