"The Queen" (2006) - Film about Elizabeth II and the Death of Diana

[ysbel]

But, Cromwell didn't say that Helen Mirren loathed Diana. He referred to people "working on the set", by which I think he meant the crew (according to the headline) and not his fellow actors.

Well in that case it really doesn't make sense. Forgive my French but who really cares if the makeup artist or the set designer or the gaffer hate Diana? They're not going to have influence over the movie's plot.

But if James says that a lot of the scenes that were shot were later cut for being too anti-royal, it looks like there was a tug of war between the screenwriter and the director and in these types of cinematic battles, the director always wins.

This particular director seemed to be more pro-Tony Blair than anti-Diana or anti-Queen.

 

[Elspeth]

The screenwriter (Peter Morgan) certainly seemed to not have a lot of sympathy with the Queen; maybe the director and the actress were the ones who injected the humanity into the characterisation. James Cromwell said as much about the screenwriter in that interview.

As for what he said about Diana, I think it just goes to show that even this long afterwards, most people are strongly pro or anti and there's precious little neutral middle ground.

 

[ysbel]

The screenwriter (Peter Morgan) certainly seemed to not have a lot of sympathy with the Queen; maybe the director and the actress were the ones who injected the humanity into the characterisation. James Cromwell said as much about the screenwriter in that interview.

As for what he said about Diana, I think it just goes to show that even this long afterwards, most people are strongly pro or anti and there's precious little neutral middle ground.

Well until now I thought that most people that were strongly pro-Diana were against the British establishment if they were anti-Diana they were for the establishment.

Cromwell's interview and some of the reactions to his interview in the Guardian have made me re-think that assumption. What I failed to take into account was the opinion a confirmed Socialist would have in the matter. They wouldn't like the royal family because they're an example of family that 'lived off the backs of others' but they wouldn't really care about Diana either because she was an aristocrat and they'd reject her on the fairytale princess story aspect of it.

One of the posters mentioned:

Being something of a red himself, Cromwell probably polled a very biased sample of Old Labor militants, who hate the royals on principle, and have never managed to forget that Diana was one of them.

But at least one fact is firmly on his side: it is never a good idea to place anyone so far outside the reach of criticism as Diana, in life and death, has been.

Though far from a socialist, I too have a hard time understanding why the general public reserves so much admiration for people who do good deeds with fashionable clothes, favorable press coverage, and unearned money.

Its quite opened my eyes beyond the normal dichtonomy between Diana and the British Royal Family to see that for some people, they're both symbols of the same thing. That statement about people who do good deeds with fashionable clothes, favorable press coverage, and unearned money could be said of any of the working princesses today, for example, Princess Anne. Well maybe not the fashionable clothes bit regarding Princess Anne, but you get what I mean.

 

[Skydragon]

it is never a good idea to place anyone so far outside the reach of criticism as Diana, in life and death, has been.
Though far from a socialist, I too have a hard time understanding why the general public reserves so much admiration for people who do good deeds with fashionable clothes, favorable press coverage, and unearned money

As you might expect, I found this quote excellent, although I would have to say that, IMO, people are far more willing to criticise Diana now in the UK.

I have always found it strange that when a 'royal' visits the homeless and everyone mutters 'marvelous, he/she really cares', then watches them get into the big car and be driven home to the 18 bedroom house.

But then, I am also puzzled by the way people encourage 'Red Nose Day', Band Aid etc, surely if you really care about the charities involved you would donate on a regular basis. I would have thought most people would look at the millionaire presenters and wonder why they dont donate more than their time.

The film is out today in the UK on DVD.

 

[ysbel]

As you might expect, I found this quote excellent, although I would have to say that, IMO, people are far more willing to criticise Diana now in the UK.

I have always found it strange that when a 'royal' visits the homeless and everyone mutters 'marvelous, he/she really cares', then watches them get into the big car and be driven home to the 18 bedroom house.

But then, I am also puzzled by the way people encourage 'Red Nose Day', Band Aid etc, surely if you really care about the charities involved you would donate on a regular basis. I would have thought most people would look at the millionaire presenters and wonder why they dont donate more than their time.

The film is out today in the UK on DVD.

When Bob Geldorf first did Band Aid I thought it was revolutionary and a good thing. Also when Audrey Hepburn first joined UNICEF. But I think other people jumped on the bandwagon.

Actually the week that Diana died showed just how hypocritical the public can be about doers of 'good deeds'. In that same week, Mother Theresa died. Mother Theresa had done truly remarkable work in India starting over 20 years before from little or no resources when and she had been recognized for it I think as early as 1979. The contrast of the extraordinary grief at Diana's passing compared to the modest and dignified grief at Mother Theresa's passing was a bit uncomfortable. So much that news presenters had to explain away why they were spending so much more time eulogizing Diana. They always started their Diana stories with, well of course Mother Theresa was an extraordinary human being and there wasn't enough space or time to extol all her accomplishments. Now about Diana...

What they failed to mention was that Mother Theresa didn't have the requisite fashionable clothes, favorable press coverage, and unearned money, and should I say, youth and good looks.

It is true that Mother Theresa's death was not as surprising as Diana's but I don't think that totally explains the different reactions of their deaths. The sad truth is that I think the majority really don't care about good deeds unless they are wrapped up in good looks, fashionable clothes, and favorable press coverage. They know they ought to care which is why I suspect the news presenters looked guilty when they switched talk from Mother Theresa to Princess Diana but that's not the same thing as actually caring.

How many people actually give time and money to the charities Diana sponsored in comparison to the number of people who want to honour her memory? I daresay the number is very low in comparison.

 

[Elspeth]

The film is out today in the UK on DVD.

It's still showing as "Not available" on Amazon.com even though other booksellers are advertising it. Wonder what the problem is at Amazon. You'd think they'd have had it available for preorder when all that Oscar publicity was happening.

 

[Skydragon]

It's still showing as "Not available" on Amazon.com even though other booksellers are advertising it. Wonder what the problem is at Amazon. You'd think they'd have had it available for preorder when all that Oscar publicity was happening.

The local stores are full of copies, apparently the take up, has so far, been slower than expected in the Highlands. Perhaps you will be able to get a copy shortly!

 

[Elspeth]

Well, I've just realised that Amazon has been lying to me. I've been searching on "Helen Mirren" and keep getting sent to this page, which is apparently a DVD listing. I clicked on the DVD link there, expecting to be sent to the same page, but instead I was sent here, where the DVD is available for preorder. So I preordered it.

Weird.

 

[Thomas Parkman]

For devout and fervent monarchists such as ourselves, Life is just one unending frustration. First there are all these blasted republicans, then the Marxists who want to hang, burn, torture or whatnot everybody and then we have the supply stores where we cannot even get a copy of the one decent movie in the past how many decades. Sigh. Elspeth, I do hope you get the toy soon. Let us hope it will brighten your day. I have not been so happy at a movie (and as a rule I loathe movies) since the Bergman presentation of Mozart's Die Zauberflote. I was in bliss for days afterwards with that and in sheer exaultation after the mighty Helen's latest opus. No wonder the grubby republican shop keepers and sellers of DVDs are giving us such a hard time. It only goes to prove that life not be a drab and boring set of corrupt and idiotic tableau perpetrated by tasteless vulgarians after all. It is indeed possible to be dignified, nay majestic. Cheers.

 

[Tinika]

For devout and fervent monarchists such as ourselves, Life is just one unending frustration. First there are all these blasted republicans, then the Marxists who want to hang, burn, torture or whatnot everybody and then we have the supply stores where we cannot even get a copy of the one decent movie in the past how many decades. Sigh. Elspeth, I do hope you get the toy soon. Let us hope it will brighten your day. I have not been so happy at a movie (and as a rule I loathe movies) since the Bergman presentation of Mozart's Die Zauberflote. I was in bliss for days afterwards with that and in sheer exaultation after the mighty Helen's latest opus. No wonder the grubby republican shop keepers and sellers of DVDs are giving us such a hard time. It only goes to prove that life not be a drab and boring set of corrupt and idiotic tableau perpetrated by tasteless vulgarians after all. It is indeed possible to be dignified, nay majestic. Cheers.

I could never hope to top your eloquence, Thomas, but I agree with you completely. It was a beautifully-done film and the magnificent Helen Mirren was brilliant--I couldn't take my eyes off her amazing face the entire time. I loved it.

 

[TheTruth]

Really great film ! It seems so close to reality that sometimes you wonder if it's TV archives or not!
For those who saw the film, how do you understand the presence of the deer in the movie? What (or who) do you think it represents ?

Thanks for replying

 

[ysbel]

We had a discussion on the deer earlier in the thread.

Some people were impressed by the symbolism and thought it meant Diana. Others thought that the scene was too melodramatic and that the deer scene wasn't of the high quality of the rest of the movie. Others didn't care one way or another.

 

[selrahc4]

I thought the scene with the stag was symbolic, but did not think it was a symbol for Diana.

 

[Suonymona]

More of a reminder how things have changed and she can't approach the same things (deaths) in the same way anymore (whereas she might have wanted to shoot the deer in the past)?

I really like symbolism in movies. I can debate for hours over various meanings.

 

[Sophus]

We had a discussion on the deer earlier in the thread.

Some people were impressed by the symbolism and thought it meant Diana. Others thought that the scene was too melodramatic and that the deer scene wasn't of the high quality of the rest of the movie. Others didn't care one way or another.

No matter what the deer is meant there are some coincidences about the historical symbolism of the name Diana and the deer.

1. From the antique the goddess of hunting Diana is often pictured with a deer.

2. The mistress of King Henri II of France - Diane de Poitiers - was often referred to as the godess Diana. She often dressed with the symbols of Diana and she was the model of the famed sculpture "The Diana of Anet" where she is resting next to a deer. In the park of her favorite home Fontainebleau she placed a statue of a deer wearing a golden ring - a pendant of the same ring as she wore in the chateau (a symbol conecting her and the animal).

3. At the funeral of Princess Diana of Wales her brother compared her to the goddes of hunting; her namesake Diana - symbolising the one as a hunter and the other as the victim of hunting (the press).

 

[LadyK]

What I loved about the movie was how they portrayed two different sides to all the major characters (with the exception of Prince Charles-who just seemed weak and snivelling- and Cheri Blair, who seemed rude)

They were rather nice to the people, too- In real life, I find Cheri Blair a little...unattractive, but in the movie, she seemed a little...more attractive. However, I had a bigger issue with the actor who played Prince Charles. Even my mother, who isn't so much of a royal fan, but who saw the movie with me, noticed that his ears weren't big enough! But the actor who played Tony Blair looked so amazingly similar to him- sometimes you had to look twice to see which was the real footage, and which was the actor!

 

[HRH Kerry]

The dvd will be released tomorrow on this side of the pond. Can't wait to own it.

 

[Elspeth]

To me the whole deer episode rang false. The Queen has been stalking deer since she was a girl, she seems to have a countrywoman's lack of sentimentality toward wild animals, and she hasn't lost her public reserve. Making that big deal over a dead deer was just strange.

 

[susan alicia]

to me the dear that was killed was not the deer she had seen, she seemed to smile and relax when she had studied its head.

 

[crisscross1]

The movie is released here on the 27th, and although I didn't care one way or the other if I saw it, your comments are intriguing. I think I might watch it after all.

 

[Alison20]

I thoroughly enjoyed the film. I went with a little trepidation when it first came out, as Helen Mirren is not known for being in favour of a monarchy. But she certainly got inside her character, which seemed true to all we have seen and heard of the Queen over the years.

Yes, I think, as the film suggested. the Queen was a little out of step with the public's extreme re-action to Diana's death, but I think that was a whirlwind, whipped up by its unexpectedness and the media getting hysterical. The bulk of the people, though, were much more traditionally reserved.

I did think the portrayal of Prince Charles was the weak spot. I have often seen him, and met him once. He is not the weak and ineffectual character they showed.

 

[acdc1]

It comes out tomorrow and I'm buying it. I wouldve seen it in theaters, but unfortunately it didn't come to my town. Oh well, I'll see it soon!

 

[Prince of Chota]

I enjoyed it as well. I think that they could have done a better job with the characterisation of Charles and a few others, but they did seem to capture some of the quirks of the Prince of Wales. By all accounts he is a bit strange, but I like him a bit more each time I learn more about him.
The portrayal of the queen was wonderful. I'm not entirely sure that the royal family's opinion of Diana was quite as one-dimensional as was portrayed in the film, though. To be honest, though, my biggest problem was that some of the film locations looked nothing like the places they were supposed to represent...

 

[RoyalKnottie]

I bought my copy today! I'm so excited I can't wait to get home and watch it and every little featurette! Long live 'The Queen'!

 

[MarleyAllison]

I bought the movie today too!!

 

[Elspeth]

My copy's on the way from Amazon.

 

[HRH Kerry]

Got mine first thing this morning!

 

[RoyalKnottie]

I love this movie! I really like the audio commentary with Robert Lacey (historian and royal expert). Very interesting and I highly recommend watching the audio commentary.

 

[Elspeth]

Thanks for the tip. I don't usually bother with audio commentaries, but this one sounds as though it may be worth making an exception for.

 

[crisscross1]

I rented a copy of 'The Queen' today and I must say I really enjoyed it. I thought the actors who played the different characters were very well chosen and in particular Helen Mirren. I'm glad I didn't buy a copy though, I don't think I would watch it too often