Rania's relationship with other royals?

[Reina]

That is an interesting point. She has visited the refugee camps in the Balkans(?). Also QN has done her share of visiting refugees camps, so maybe QR will learn to do the same. I think that would make a huge statement and get the attention of the world.

 

[polop]

That is an interesting point. She has visited the refugee camps in the Balkans(?). Also QN has done her share of visiting refugees camps, so maybe QR will learn to do the same. I think that would make a huge statement and get the attention of the world.

Exactly!!

 

[Lillia]

No,I realize she cannot make all the changes I reflected upon, by herself.But at the same time,I do believe she is one the most well known Arab woman figures in the world,and any idea or belief she supports will definetly recieve more attention that it were to before.One example which I have mentioned before,is what if instead of going to American public schools, she pays a visit to Afghani refugee camps?She might not be able to make a change but maybe she can make people think about what's going on?No change will happen overnight.Change is a process,that calls upon leadership,sacrifice and most of all,time.I don't expect Queen Rania to apologize for her destiny and fate,however I do want to her to a bit more greatful.Again,maybe to you,she already is doing enough! (But I,for one,do think she could do more.)

I am not judging whether she has 'done enough' or not; the matter of 'how much' is not really up to me as I have not bothered to keep a scorecard or a tally or weigh up her activities at all. Actually, I have enough on my plate keeping measures of myself...

I seems to me, quite simply, that the judgements of her generally speaking are really quite harsh. Yes, I agree she is in a prominent spot; her husband is head of state, obviously. But to render such a judgement on her as a result of that...

When you say you want her to be a bit more grateful, it seems to explain the why behind the subtext of what you (and others -- not everyone but some mind you) keep implying bad things about her. One person even implied (rather nastily, in my opinion) that QR is going out of her way to attact other men.

You think she is 'ungrateful' instead of 'grateful' for something that she has received or something that has been done for her; even while you admittedly (and some others too perhaps) do not actually know her and may not have had input over her fortunes or misfortunes, and then (I guess) do not actually know how she feels on any of it. That's why the constant attacks on her character (by some, not all mind you). I understand it now where I did not understand before.

I still wonder, how anyone can so totally render whether she is 'grateful' or not. Especially if they do not know her. The term 'grateful' itself (as you probably well know) means:

1. Appreciative of benefits received; thankful.
2. Expressing gratitude.

How and to whom would you demand she espress her complete 'appreciative-ness' for her fate/destiny thus far? Do you know with certainty that she has not done other projects that you have not seen or heard about -- or is it the case that each and every single one of her actions need to be held out for scrutiny and judgement? I'm certain some (not everyone mind you, just some) would then say 'Queen Rania is showing off, she's trying to win approval by doing this or that and making her actions public', etc., etc...

I appreciate you being honest in expressing the core of your beliefs about her. You believe she is not grateful.

So, some people (some, not all mind you) spread rumors about her, say nasty things about her to undermine her character and such -- all because they probably judge her not grateful (and perhaps further on the truth of their estimations, not really worthy) of what she has.

It explains the harshness of the opinion. Sad, in my own opinion, but at least you were honest.

 

[Lillia]

Hi Polop, I have highlighted your comments in BLUE (except your 1st comment remains in the original black color) :

"

Iam not a negative person, and I don't like to talk about anybody negatively,however at the same time I feel it's important to shed light upon matters that are important.I don't know Queen Rania personally,and I don't believe many people do on this forum,but at the same time we all question her judgement and decisions.Rania is portrayed from one angle in the media,but every person sees her from a different view.She is in such a position, with her choice and willingness."

First of all, I do not question her judgement or her reasons for doing whatever; I like many, just see the pictures -- I like them or I do not like them -- and I cannot possible get into her head about the 'why' especially without her own extensive comments on anything. Yes, I agree -- she probably chose to marry Abdullah (then CPA), but as you know neither of them (it was said) anticipated that he would become King of Jordan (I am open to being corrected if I am wrong on that).

What I meant by "using modernism to fullfil her desires..." was that while she[Rania]does say that "we are moving forward," is her country really?While she's leading her country from her $2million yatch,where is her country actually going?Is she saying that wearing bathing suits(example)is modern just to gain approval for her attire?

I think you have already acknowledged that serious change over there will not happen overnight -- and you would probably agree that the types of change that will last will be step-by-step and slow in the making. So why bash her for the fact that change on such a scale will take so long? It is sad however, that some people (not all people) seem to think that QR only cares about her wardrobe -- and then they attibute all of the absolute worst human characteristics to her. And about her 'leading' -- as you and I know, she is certainly not the leader of over there... There is only one Head of State over there -- HM King Abdullah, Rania is his wife. I think KA has been in Russia recently holding talks with V. Putin -- i.e. doing like leaders do...

Maybe you should be upset at King Abdullah for owning a so-called $2 million yacht, rather than being angry at his wife for sitting on it. Be upset that King Abdullah's father (King Hussein) may have been the one who purchased it; if it was given to them, be upset that the King (Hussein or Abdullah) did not refuse to accept such a gift. And who said it was their boat anyway? I would only probably guess that KA did not all of a sudden buy any boat, if it is his, it's probably been in the family for some time (or maybe not) -- direct the harshness over it at the correct parties. Perhaps be mad that the entire royal family has not renounced everything they have, rather than directing scathing negativity at one person for having married into the family.

I cannot say she is selfish,because each single one of us has a different definition of selfishness.To you,it might be taking away without giving,to me it could be not giving when you have enough to give away;so it varies.I do personally think, that she is blending her self in the usuall royal "clich'e."Vacations,parties,make-up etc. it seems like people forget where they came from.

Once again, I am certain that she is not the only person in that family who sits on the boat or uses the home or travels or has some degree of access to the resources available to the Jordanian Royal Family; and they do have access to resources.

But that is a fact not of her own making, and I seriously doubt if she could do anything to change that, even if she wanted to. When you say 'people forget where they come from' -- do you mean she needs to renounce whatever her husband has that she shares with him? How do you know for certain what she has forgotten? Abdullah and his family are the ones with all the cash and the property; he's the Head of State and it was his own father that was King sitting on all of it before him, should she tell him that this was all wrong?

Those who look at their yesterdays as burdens are never able to walk, but those who view their yesterdays as lessons,run with the wind. Rania should use her experiences to make herself into a stong and accomplished woman.
(You might think she already is one.)

Regardless of what I may or may not think, it may be apparent that you do not believe she is either strong or accomplished in anything that is either positive or productive. As well, I have no way to know how QR 'looks at her yesterdays...". In my own opinion, it is starting to sound a little like the old story of 'misery loves company...'

I don't think she is doing what she isn't suppose to from the political aspect,but I do believe she could do more.Lastly,the reason why,in your opinion,I emphasized her "desires" was because desires in a way,decide what you accomplish.If I wish to dicover a cure for cancer,my path of life is different from someone who want's to be a make-up artist. Desires indicate who you are.I hope you realize that Iam not someone who likes to highlight others weaknesses or faults,because sometimes your weaknesses help bring out your strengths.

Nice to hear that you will say QR is not doing every single thing wrong. But again, my point is that neither you nor I know her 'desires' regardless what is shown in any picture. And I am not the one saying that you '...like to highlight others weakness' -- I never even brought it up. In my opinion, saying that someone is not grateful is the same as being negative about them; saying that they 'could do more' can also be seen as highlighting their so-called 'weakness', but I do not know. I have no way to know your intentions, but like anyone else, I can interpret what is put here. I did say that the comments seem negative and quite harsh on her. That is my own estimation, just as your own estimation of QR is that she is un-grateful (or un-worthy). I still don't get the problem with her wearing a swimsuit. Most peope would wear one if they are going swimming...

All I have done and can ever do is see the posts and ask for clarification

 

[polop]

I am not judging whether she has 'done enough' or not; the matter of 'how much' is not really up to me as I have not bothered to keep a scorecard or a tally or weigh up her activities at all. Actually, I have enough on my plate keeping measures of myself...

I seems to me, quite simply, that your judgements of her generally speaking are really quite harsh. Yes, I agree she is in a prominent spot; her husband is head of state, obviously. But to render such a judgement on her as a result of that...

When you say you want her to be a bit more grateful, it seems to explain the why behind the subtext of what you (and others -- not everyone but some mind you) keep implying on her. One person even implied (rather nastily, in my opinion) that QR is going out of her way to attact other men.

You think she is 'ungrateful' instead of 'grateful' for something that she has received or something that has been done for her; even while you admittedly (and some others too perhaps) do not actually know her and may not have had input over her fortunes or misfortunes, and then (I guess) do not actually know how she feels on any of it. That's why the constant attacks on her character (by some, not all mind you). I understand it now where I did not understand before.

I still wonder, how anyone can so totally render whether she is 'grateful' or not. Especially if they do not know her. The term 'grateful' itself (as you probably well know) means:

1. Appreciative of benefits received; thankful.
2. Expressing gratitude.

How and to whom would you demand she espress her complete 'appreciative-ness' for her fate/destiny thus far? Do you know with certainty that she has not done other projects that you have not seen or heard about -- or is it the case that each and every single one of her actions need to be held out for scrutiny and judgement? I'm certain some (not everyone mind you, just some) would then say 'Queen Rania is showing off, she's trying to win approval by doing this or that and making her actions public', etc., etc...

I appreciate you being honest in expressing the core of your beliefs about her. You believe she is not grateful.

So, some people (some, not all mind you) spread rumors about her, say nasty things about her to undermine her character and such -- all because they probably judge her not grateful (and perhaps further on the truth of their estimations, not really worthy) of what she has.

It explains the harshness of your opinion. Sad, in my own opinion, but at least you were honest.

Doesn't how much she has done reflect what are the results?I also failed to understand what you found harsh?Was it that I said she is ungrateful?Well,to me she doesn't seem to do enough for her country and region.We can not compare her to Queen Elizabeth,for example,because Queen Elizabeth is a paid emplyee of the govenment,doesn't rule over anyone, and most importantly belongs to a developed first world country.As for her trying to "attract" other men,I can see where someone would come up with a notion like that.She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people.So for her to dress in some very revealing dresses,makes people think,what could be the reason??You're right, I don't know Rania personally,but actions speak louder than words.How much has she given back to Jordan?I don't mean,computer facilities etc.How many times has she visited Palestine comparable to U.S,London,Paris etc?There is no real way to know how she feels about her destiny except how she responds to her life and fortunes.I should make it clear,that I don't think that she is "ungreatful" I just believe that she doesn't know what she has and what others lack.She probably has millions and millions of dollars but I've never seen her go to places that no one else notices.I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has.In Islam Allah says that life is a test,I test some by giving them plenty,while giving others nothing.I personally believe,when you are given $10, $8 belong to others,it the matter of when we realize it.My intentions were not make you sad or think that Iam someone who loves criticizing Queen Rania.It's unfortunate that every time this happens.

 

[polop]

"

Nice to hear that you will say QR is not doing every single thing wrong. But again, my point is that neither you nor I know her 'desires' regardless what is shown in any picture. And I am not the one saying that you '...like to highlight others weakness' -- I never even brought it up. In my opinion, saying that someone is not grateful is the same as being negative about them; saying that they 'could do more' can also be seen as highlighting their so-called 'weakness', but I do not know. I have no way to know your intentions, but like anyone else, I can interpret what is put here. I did say that the comments seem negative and quite harsh on her. That is my own estimation, just as your own estimation of QR is that she is un-grateful (or un-worthy). I still don't get the problem with her wearing a swimsuit. Most peope would wear one if they are going swimming...

All I have done and can ever do is see the posts and ask for clarification

Great. I think the problem with her wearing a swimsuit is that,she is a Muslim Queen.Most people are not Queens or Kings!

 

[Lillia]

Great. I think the problem with her wearing a swimsuit is that,she is a Muslim Queen.Most people are not Queens or Kings!

Yes -- but most people do not live in a big house or travel extensively or are married to a Head of State either -- would you hang her for it?

 

[polop]

Yes -- but most people do not live in a big house or travel extensively or are married to a Head of State either -- would you hang her for it?

No, I won't hang her;how about shooting her?? Iam just kidding.

 

[Humera]

Well,to me she doesn't seem to do enough for her country and region.

I think thats quite unfair and untrue.
Most people here know I follow Rania very closely, infact I have a database of the activities she has taken part in since she became Queen.
Rania is always speaking for her country, her region, her religion.
Even many of the trips she makes to European or western countries, have to do with her commitment to causes related to her country, if there's any major event, conference in the west, etc. related to arab women, arab women and business, generally issues related to children and poverty, or aid for palestinians, Rania is there to lend her support. She also visits lot of countries in her own region for the same causes (women, children, micro-entrepreneurship, Palestine, Iraq etc)
Never mind the many international bodies she is involved in on behalf of her country, she continues to join newly formed bodies that are relevant to her region as well ie. Young leaders forum, Netaid (for child poverty) etc.
So I think if you actually followed and found out more about what she's involved in, you'd see what I mean. Thats something we cant learn about by just looking at her pics.
I could post the thousands of pictures of all the events Rania has been a part of in support of these causes but it would take me days to do so.

 

[Lillia]

Doesn't how much she has done reflect what are the results?I also failed to understand what you found harsh?Was it that I said she is ungrateful?

Yes you did say it; in my estimation it was an honest, sincere comment about you think she is not 'grateful' enough (saying that someone 'could be a bit more grateful is the tactical equivalent of saying that they are not 'grateful' enough -- you probably knew that already ):

Post #30
"I don't expect Queen Rania to apologize for her destiny and fate,however I do want to her to a bit more greatful.Again,maybe to you,she already is doing enough! (But I,for one,do think she could do more.)"


Well,to me she doesn't seem to do enough for her country and region.We can not compare her to Queen Elizabeth,for example,because Queen Elizabeth is a paid emplyee of the govenment,doesn't rule over anyone, and most importantly belongs to a developed first world country.

Yes, I agree it would certainly be unfair to blame her for the state of affairs in Jordan; and to hold her accountable for England being a 'developed first world country' while Jordan is not considered such -- well, that would be uncalled for and totally crazy and unreasonable. She cannot possibly change all that situation -- and I'm sure you would never really expect her to change all that...

As for her trying to "attract" other men,I can see where someone would come up with a notion like that.She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.

Again, another baseless accusation, in my opinion. I am not going to comment on that further because it is pointless. Those who accuse her of such things in my opinion are trying to undermine her character by assigning things to her out of their own mean-spirited spitefulness. They cannot see past the end of their own nose on certain things, but ok to each his own...

Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people.So for her to dress in some very revealing dresses,makes people think,what could be the reason??You're right, I don't know Rania personally,but actions speak louder than words.How much has she given back to Jordan?I don't mean,computer facilities etc.How many times has she visited Palestine comparable to U.S,London,Paris etc?There is no real way to know how she feels about her destiny except how she responds to her life and fortunes.I should make it clear,that I don't think that she is "ungreatful" I just believe that she doesn't know what she has and what others lack. She probably has millions and millions of dollars but I've never seen her go to places that no one else notices.I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has.

Again, I do not have any way of knowing what she realizes or her intentions; people accused Queen Noor of the same very exact thing until her husband died -- they said the very same thing 'Noor is not grateful and she does not realize what she has, she does not do enough'; then they saw how crushed she was over the death of her husband and decided that her obvious sorrow and dismay over it all was just what were looking for as proof to cinvince them she was not as truly evil and wicked as they tried to label her. In my opinion, they were vindictive and spiteful rumor-mongers (and just like so many others who hold themselves as 'keepers of their faith' -- don't worry it happens in all denominations, unfortunate but true).

In Islam Allah says that life is a test,I test some by giving them plenty,while giving others nothing.I personally believe,when you are given $10, $8 belong to others,it the matter of when we realize it.My intentions were not make you sad or think that Iam someone who loves criticizing Queen Rania.It's unfortunate that every time this happens.

Yes - I do think it unfortunate: it sounds to me like there is nothing QR could ever do (outside of suffer some grave loss) that would alleviate all the bad judgements. And I do understand that it is your own opinion and you are clearly entitled to think what you want about anyone you wish. But I have to ask: does the teaching not also hold that the judgements (or tests as you call them) are given by someone other than you or I -- meaning i.e. there is someone else who actually has the true right to give such tests to people and the decision on whether they have 'passed' along with the penalty or not would be up either of neither of us, for example -- is that correct?

 

[Lillia]

No, I won't hang her;how about shooting her?? Iam just kidding.

I think comments like that are exactly what I mean when I say harsh and judgemental, regardless of the intention. But that is my opinion only. someone else may see it as a statement made out of love or something...

And I do think you are expressing what you sincerely feel (even while you want to laugh it off). And that is fine. If the comment is sincere, at least you are honest about it.

(in my own opinion, it smacks of resentment and perhaps envy -- which is a core issue. But I again would not know that, as I do not know you; ultimately it is not my business).

But ok, not a problem -- we're all human and subject to all human traits: I hope those people who would dare to judge or 'test' you and others for what is done/not done would be more generous...

 

[polop]

I think comments like that are exactly what I mean when I say harsh and judgemental, regardless of the intention.

And I do think you are expressing what you sincerely feel (even while you want to laugh it off). And that is fine. If the comment is sincere, at least you are honest about it.

(in my own opinion, it smacks of resentment and perhaps envy -- which is a core issue. But I again would not know that, as I do not know you; ultimately it is not my business).

But ok, not a problem -- we're all human and subject to all human traits: I hope those people who would dare to judge or 'test' you and others for what is done/not done would be more generous...

Do you really think that Iam such a cruel person?I really was joking and there is nothing I can do to make you believe me.Yes,I do think that Rania does not dress appropriately,but that does not mean,by any extent,that I want to shoot her???!!!!! In the end, I can only voice my opinion,and you can interpret it however you want.First you jokingly ask me do I want to hang her for it,I try to laugh it off,but still Iam the vilan.I was honest about anything,because I was kidding!!!!!Iam sorry,that you think of me in those terms,but I really have tried to explain my self again,again to you,but you still think of me as someone who likes to kill people and criticize them for no reason and there is nothing I can do about that.

 

[Lillia]

Ok -- sorry if I upset you. I was not trying to do that or be cruel either. That was not the intention.

I do not think of you or anyone in such bad terms (certainly not) -- but could you imagine if someone that I was referring to on these boards actually read such a thing? they would probably flip out or something (or at minimum their feelings might get hurt)

I do appreciate you being honest though and addressing my question openly. Thanks much for that

I'm sure you'd agree that there is not much wrong with a healthy discussion on something...

 

[polop]

Ok -- sorry if I upset you. I was not trying to do that. I do not think of you or anyone in such bad terms (certainly not) -- but could you imagine if someone that I was referring to on these boards acutally read such a thing? they'd probably flip or something (or at minimum their feelings might get hurt)

I do appreciate you being honest though and addressing my question. Thanks for that

Iam glad we cleared that up!

 

[Little_star]

Lillia, your posts are spot on.

"Well,it's not like she should get along with the Iranian government,but it's interesting how she participates more in western events.Anyways,just wondering,why won't they like her?"

Why should she have to get involved with such a repressed and backwards country? I imagine the Iraninas wouldn't like her becuase she isn't a submissive woman who will let herself be walked all over.

"That is an interesting point. She has visited the refugee camps in the Balkans(?). Also QN has done her share of visiting refugees camps, so maybe QR will learn to do the same. I think that would make a huge statement and get the attention of the world."
Iran also springs to mind.

"She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people."
Rania does more good for Islam's reputation than many other muslim' out there.

"I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has"
Unless you know her personally you cannot possibly make a statement like that.

"Great. I think the problem with her wearing a swimsuit is that,she is a Muslim Queen.Most people are not Queens or Kings! "
So what? She doesn't parade around the streets of Amman in a swimsuit. she wears one far away from prying eyes. It is not her fault the paparazzi likes to hunt people as though they were prey.

Furthermore what's funny about joking about shooting someone.,

 

[polop]

Lillia, your posts are spot on.
Why should she have to get involved with such a repressed and backwards country? I imagine the Iraninas wouldn't like her becuase she isn't a submissive woman who will let herself be walked all over.

Why is Iran a "repressed and a backwards" country??? Have you personally visited the place,asked woman and childern what life really is like?What are you basing your judgement upon??? How are Iranian women letting men walk all over them??????It's very judgemental of you to say something like this!Just because people don't live like you doesn't mean they are being oppressed and being walked upon.I highly recommend you reconsider what you said.

"She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people."
Rania does more good for Islam's reputation than many other muslim' out there.

She is suppose to,she's a queen.

"I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has"
Unless you know her personally you cannot possibly make a statement like that.

And I suppose you do???????

"Great. I think the problem with her wearing a swimsuit is that,she is a Muslim Queen.Most people are not Queens or Kings! "
So what? She doesn't parade around the streets of Amman in a swimsuit. she wears one far away from prying eyes. It is not her fault the paparazzi likes to hunt people as though they were prey.

Furthermore what's funny about joking about shooting someone?
There is nothing funny about that.I assume you forgot to read the whole conversation,because I was asked "do you want to hang her for it? "Why I suppose you find that funny???????

 

[Lara]

Why should she have to get involved with such a repressed and backwards country? I imagine the Iraninas wouldn't like her becuase she isn't a submissive woman who will let herself be walked all over.

Do you know all Iranians to know that they won't like her because she's not submissive? More importantly, do you know all Iranians so well that you find it easy to lump them all as repressive and backwards?

 

[Alicky]

I agree that that was a sweeping generalization, but I don't think it was meant to be. Perhaps Little Star meant the theocratic government, not an entire population.

On another note, I've been reading an American journalist's book about her experiences in Iran and with Iranians over the years, and plenty of the women there tend to be anything but!

 

[La la]

On another note, I've been reading an American journalist's book about her experiences in Iran and with Iranians over the years, and plenty of the women there tend to be anything but!

Definitely. There are plenty of successful and independent women in Iran working in all kinds of fields, everything from running their own wine company (in Iran) to directing/producing movies that have bagged international awards, participating/representing their country in a wide range of sports (football, chess, racing etc.; two Iranian women just climbed the peak of the Mount Everest this year) and the list just goes on. From what I gather many of them seem adventurous and strong-willed and are far from being "caged".

 

[madonna23]

totally agree - la la. i think its unfair to label all women of a particular country or ethnic group as oppressed. women from iran, saudi arabia, and other "backward" countries are very powerful. sometimes they may not be powerful according to western tradition and ways but they are powerful in their own way.

 

[polop]

totally agree - la la. i think its unfair to label all women of a particular country or ethnic group as oppressed. women from iran, saudi arabia, and other "backward" countries are very powerful. sometimes they may not be powerful according to western tradition and ways but they are powerful in their own way.

Exactly! And if "someone" doesn't wish to visit these countries becuase they will be stepped all over first needs to make themselves so strong that no one should be able to walk all over them;however most importantly that person doesn't deserve to visit these countries and experience their rich cultures first hand.

 

[Roshanah]

He he he Too true Alicky!

Trust me, I don't think she would have to compete with Laura Bush lol!

 

[Roshanah]

No I'm not. So please don't suggest otherwise. The statement that was made by another forum member that QR doesn't seem to visit many Arab countries. My response indeed it doesn't 'seem' so also she doesn't Visit North Africa (Although they aren't Arabi in origin, they are Muslims. This doesn't imply that QR should visit solely Muslim Coutries, or take preference over them more than others.

 

[Roshanah]

Nicely quoted Polop! True Allah s.w.t. did say that.

Doesn't how much she has done reflect what are the results?I also failed to understand what you found harsh?Was it that I said she is ungrateful?Well,to me she doesn't seem to do enough for her country and region.We can not compare her to Queen Elizabeth,for example,because Queen Elizabeth is a paid emplyee of the govenment,doesn't rule over anyone, and most importantly belongs to a developed first world country.As for her trying to "attract" other men,I can see where someone would come up with a notion like that.She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people.So for her to dress in some very revealing dresses,makes people think,what could be the reason??You're right, I don't know Rania personally,but actions speak louder than words.How much has she given back to Jordan?I don't mean,computer facilities etc.How many times has she visited Palestine comparable to U.S,London,Paris etc?There is no real way to know how she feels about her destiny except how she responds to her life and fortunes.I should make it clear,that I don't think that she is "ungreatful" I just believe that she doesn't know what she has and what others lack.She probably has millions and millions of dollars but I've never seen her go to places that no one else notices.I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has.In Islam Allah says that life is a test,I test some by giving them plenty,while giving others nothing.I personally believe,when you are given $10, $8 belong to others,it the matter of when we realize it.My intentions were not make you sad or think that Iam someone who loves criticizing Queen Rania.It's unfortunate that every time this happens.

 

[Roshanah]

Submission doesn't necessarily mean that one is walked upon. Just as you said that Polop ought to be careful with her comments as they obviously offended yourself (although that isn't what Polop intended.) Please upon that same note do the same. There are some members whom might be Irani or Afghani and they might take exception to your calling their countries repressed and backward.

Lillia, your posts are spot on.

"Well,it's not like she should get along with the Iranian government,but it's interesting how she participates more in western events.Anyways,just wondering,why won't they like her?"

Why should she have to get involved with such a repressed and backwards country? I imagine the Iraninas wouldn't like her becuase she isn't a submissive woman who will let herself be walked all over.

"That is an interesting point. She has visited the refugee camps in the Balkans(?). Also QN has done her share of visiting refugees camps, so maybe QR will learn to do the same. I think that would make a huge statement and get the attention of the world."
Iran also springs to mind.

"She is after all a Muslim Queen(again,many people disagree with this...)and hence, she should be held accountable for how she represents Islam and Jordan.Ofcourse,she is not the sole representer of Islam,many us contribute to it reputation,but she is the Queen and she has the power to influence other leaders and people."
Rania does more good for Islam's reputation than many other muslim' out there.

"I hope you realize that when I said that she is ungreatful,I meant she doesn't realize what she has"
Unless you know her personally you cannot possibly make a statement like that.

"Great. I think the problem with her wearing a swimsuit is that,she is a Muslim Queen.Most people are not Queens or Kings! "
So what? She doesn't parade around the streets of Amman in a swimsuit. she wears one far away from prying eyes. It is not her fault the paparazzi likes to hunt people as though they were prey.

Furthermore what's funny about joking about shooting someone.,

 

[polop]

At least somebody is open minded!

 

[Little_star]

"Why is Iran a "repressed and a backwards" country??? Have you personally visited the place,asked woman and childern what life really is like?What are you basing your judgement upon??? How are Iranian women letting men walk all over them??????It's very judgemental of you to say something like this!Just because people don't live like you doesn't mean they are being oppressed and being walked upon.I highly recommend you reconsider what you said."

One of my closest friends is Iranian, her family feld the country becuase they were being persecuted by the Government, her uncle "disappeared". Moreover a cousin of mine worked for an aid agency there. So before you jump to conclusions I base my opinion on actual knowledge of the country.

"And I suppose you do???????"
Not at all. Whcih is why I'd rather not make rash and condescending statements abotu whether she is grateful for her position or not.

"I agree that that was a sweeping generalization, but I don't think it was meant to be. Perhaps Little Star meant the theocratic government, not an entire population"
Thanks Alicky, that was my intention.

"On another note, I've been reading an American journalist's book about her experiences in Iran and with Iranians over the years, and plenty of the women there tend to be anything but! "
What people do behind closed doors though is not relevant. the fact is if people were to do the same things in public they would most certainly be arrested for it.

"totally agree - la la. i think its unfair to label all women of a particular country or ethnic group as oppressed. women from iran, saudi arabia, and other "backward" countries are very powerful. sometimes they may not be powerful according to western tradition and ways but they are powerful in their own way."
Women in many countries, like iran and Saudi Arabia are anything but powerful. They don't even have the right to choose what they wear in public. One of the most fundamental of ideals that people in many countries take for granted.

"At least somebody is open minded!"

Being open-minded has nothing to do with it. Denying women basic human rights is wrong. Pretending that it is ok, becuase they're "culturally different" is not sufficient.

 

[polop]

"One of my closest friends is Iranian, her family feld the country becuase they were being persecuted by the Government, her uncle "disappeared". Moreover a cousin of mine worked for an aid agency there. So before you jump to conclusions I base my opinion on actual knowledge of the country.

The real word being "ONE."Your friend,with all due respect,doesn't represent Iran or Iranian ethics and laws.

Not at all. Whcih is why I'd rather not make rash and condescending statements abotu whether she is grateful for her position or not.

Once again,if you wish to highlight what I said 100 years ago,you can do so.

Women in many countries, like iran and Saudi Arabia are anything but powerful. They don't even have the right to choose what they wear in public. One of the most fundamental of ideals that people in many countries take for granted. .

How would you know how women live in Saudi Arabia?People like you only look at the "Niqab" and judge that the woman must be oppressed and abused.Many women are happy living their lives under those "veils."They have a right to chose what they wear,it's just that many women wish to follow Islamic guidelines.If you would know,Saudi Arabia,Dubia,Kuwait etc. have opened exclucive shopping malls for women,where they can shop in their own privacy,along with other women.These malls are especially made for women and their shopping needs.Furthermore, Iran has a nuclear program,which would have never been possible if it were not for the cooperation from intelligent and many hard working women.In Kuwait,the rate at which women graduate from collage has reached to 60%.Unlike U.S,Pakistan already has had a female prime minister.Many of these women are accomplished and happy with their lives.I think that these women have the right to choose what they wish to wear,it's the western society who doesn't agree with it,and hence,declares that these women should able to wear more of what they want.We should let them live the way they want.If you really want to help women in these countries,help them in other beneficial causes than arguing about something so meaningless and endless.

Being open-minded has nothing to do with it. Denying women basic human rights is wrong. Pretending that it is ok, becuase they're "culturally different" is not sufficient.

And when did you get your degree in Human Rights?No body is denying these women "basic human rights..."Many women in Arab world are not even required to work,because their husbands provide everything for them.If you really wish to shed light upon human rights issues, go to Afghanistan,Iraq,Palestine,Africa etc.Don't look at women in countries where they are not even required to pay taxes,cause their countries are so damn rich.

 

[Little_star]

"The real word being "ONE."Your friend,with all due respect,doesn't represent Iran or Iranian ethics and laws."

Thanks to her though I've made alot of Iranian friends with similar stories, people who fled for vaious political and social reasons, it's incredibly sad what so many many families have had to give up and leave behind. Moreover I forgot to mention I'm involved with a legal organisation that helps asylum seekers, alot of whom are Iranian.

"Once again,if you wish to highlight what I said 100 years ago,you can do so. "
You're fond of exaggerating it seems. As it stands I posted on the newest posts since the last time I logged in.

"How would you know how women live in Saudi Arabia?"
The vast amount of friends and family I have living in the country are a bit of an indication, not forgetting my own experiences when visiting.

"People like you only look at the "Niqab" and judge that the woman must be oppressed and abused.Many women are happy living their lives under those "veils."They have a right to chose what they wear,it's just that many women wish to follow Islamic guidelines."
They don't have any choice!!!They'd be arrested if they stepped out in public in anything else. And since when has a niqab or an abaya been an "Islamic guideline". Scrap that, since when has Islam had any sort of uniform at all.

"In Kuwait,the rate at which women graduate from collage has reached to 60%"
And how many of them actually go on to get a job? How many of them find that those job opportunities they've worked so hard for just don't exist. There are several Arab countries with excellent education opportunities and no jobs for women afterwards.

"Unlike U.S,Pakistan already has had a female prime minister."
Who besides from lining her own pockets and stealing the nation's wealth did nothnig to help further the cause of women in Pakistan.

".I think that these women have the right to choose what they wish to wear,it's the western society who doesn't agree with it,and hence,declares that these women should able to wear more of what they want.We should let them live the way they want."
Many many muslim women are forced to wear a headscarf or abaya by family and as for the Saudis it's against the law for them to step out of their homes in anything else. You talk about choice but those women don't have any.

"No body is denying these women "basic human rights..."Many women in Arab world are not even required to work,because their husbands provide everything for them"
And many of those women wouldn't be allowed to work even if they wished to.

 

[polop]

"Thanks to her though I've made alot of Iranian friends with similar stories, people who fled for vaious political and social reasons, it's incredibly sad what so many many families have had to give up and leave behind. Moreover I forgot to mention I'm involved with a legal organisation that helps asylum seekers, alot of whom are Iranian.

Good for you.Like you mentioned,you work for an organization that helps asylum seekers,so you only get to hear the bad and the sad.

You're fond of exaggerating it seems. As it stands I posted on the newest posts since the last time I logged in.

Iam not fond of exaggerating,however I do like to highlight the FACTS.

The vast amount of friends and family I have living in the country are a bit of an indication, not forgetting my own experiences when visiting.

You say your experinences,I guess it can't be that bad,after all,you visted these places and you're alive?

They don't have any choice!!!They'd be arrested if they stepped out in public in anything else. And since when has a niqab or an abaya been an "Islamic guideline". Scrap that, since when has Islam had any sort of uniform at all.

Islam doesn't have a "uniform," however,it does have a dress code.

And how many of them actually go on to get a job? How many of them find that those job opportunities they've worked so hard for just don't exist. There are several Arab countries with excellent education opportunities and no jobs for women afterwards.

Many of them.And if that really was the case,as you say,60% of the women wouldn't graduate from universities,they would sit at home.

Many many muslim women are forced to wear a headscarf or abaya by family and as for the Saudis it's against the law for them to step out of their homes in anything else. You talk about choice but those women don't have any.

Have you ever wondered why are these "laws" put into effect?Are they there just to torture women?You make Arab leaders seem like the most cruel and selfish people on the face of this planet,and they are not.In Islam the husband is required to give his wife a present after they get married,known as "Haq Meher" which you would know about.Again,what you might find as freedom,might seem like utter prison to some of these women.As you would know,asylum is granted not because of "cultural abuse" but because of safety.Many of your friends must have not been safe in their home countries,and that has nothing to do with wearing a "Niqab."

And many of those women wouldn't be allowed to work even if they wished to.

Why would you want to work if you are getting money from your husband to go shopping???Middle East countries are not prisons,women live there and won't change their lives for the world.Many women in U.S are being abused by their husbands or boyfriends, but that doesn't represent the values and ethics of U.S.Similary,you shouldn't label a whole society based on a few persons opinions and views.