Bowing and Curtseying


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:previous: I think you can hold off on the forensics Jacknch.

There are as many different types of curtsy as there are occassions. Some of these are:

"Formal" (greeting the French President and his lovely wife upon their arrival" or "Opening of Parliament" curstsies. :flowers:

"Gala" (State Banquet for abovementioned visit or State Opening of Parliament) curtsies. :flowers:

There are family "Nice to see you here at Ascot, have a great day, Mum's subjects and all the world are watching" curtsies, which are, in themselves a "courtesy". :photo::lol:

A "Gala" curtsey on the Lawn at Ascot, whist wearing a short dress and high heels, would have been a wonder to behold . . . . . . .:shock: oh no no you're wearing a straight skirt which has now got a veeerrry loooong split up the back! :doh::ROFLMAO:

Worse, as some of the other situations members have observed, she could end up making an inelegant grab for balance, followed by Humpty Dumpty and all that! :D
 
HRH MAZA said:
Hi!!!
I found a video of princess letizia curtseying to queen beatrix in youtube, but i dont know how to post it!!! Help!!

Thank you!!!!
Click to expand...

Just Copy and paste here the URL.
 
MARG said:
:previous: I think you can hold off on the forensics Jacknch.

There are as many different types of curtsy as there are occassions. Some of these are:

"Formal" (greeting the French President and his lovely wife upon their arrival" or "Opening of Parliament" curstsies. :flowers:

"Gala" (State Banquet for abovementioned visit or State Opening of Parliament) curtsies. :flowers:

There are family "Nice to see you here at Ascot, have a great day, Mum's subjects and all the world are watching" curtsies, which are, in themselves a "courtesy". :photo::lol:

A "Gala" curtsey on the Lawn at Ascot, whist wearing a short dress and high heels, would have been a wonder to behold . . . . . . .:shock: oh no no you're wearing a straight skirt which has now got a veeerrry loooong split up the back! :doh::ROFLMAO:

Worse, as some of the other situations members have observed, she could end up making an inelegant grab for balance, followed by Humpty Dumpty and all that! :D
Click to expand...

You're right, a small curtsey is probably wise especially at a public event like ascot where you're standing on grass and the high heels! Having said that, the Princess Royal is an expert at protocol and will know the possible pitfalls! :)
 
branchg said:
And she was questioned for doing so by the U.S. Chief of Protocol and her mother afterwards. She was the widow of The President of the United States and it was a breach of protocol.

Generally, it is considered a faux pas for Americans to bow or curtsey to royalty because the Constitution forbids all titles of nobility.
Click to expand...

Please forgive me if this was already mentioned but this thread is so long and I don't have time to read it all the way through.

I remember in the '80's when Ronald Reagan was president here in the USA and Prince Charles and Diana came to the USA on their famous visit. They were met at the airport by the US Chief of Protocol - Mrs. Annenberg who was the wife of a verrrry rich man - and she cursied to Prince Charles.
Well, all hell broke loose in the American press over that curtsey!
I think that the Ammenbergs were also personal friends of Prince Charles and she didn't want to insult him, but as a representative of the US government, it was felt that she should not have cursied.

Going back to the beginnning of the thread, I believe that Prince Ernst August would bow to QE II and then kiss her hand as he is (distant) family.

I also have met a Prince who is member of one of the oldest noble families
in France and he bowed a little and kissed my hand. I almost fainted - it was such a polite and unexpected gesture from a very cultured and well-brought up man.
 
HRH MAZA said:
THANKS PATY!!
THIS IS THE VIDEO I FOUND, THE CURTSY ITS AROUND 2:44, I THINK ITS A GOOD ONE!! JUST A LITTLE TOO DEEP, ESTILO ESPAÑOL!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Thank you for the video. Yes, Letizia's curtsey is very deep but as you mentioned it is in the Spanish style. Victoria's curtsey was just a quick bob for the Queen.
 
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TLLK said:
Thank you for the video. Yes, Letizia's curtsey is very deep but as you mentioned it is in the Spanish style. Victoria's curtsey was just a quick bob for the Queen.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! I loved that you could her the different voices.
 
I wonder what it feels like to be curtsied to...:rolleyes:
 
pamk said:
I remember in the '80's when Ronald Reagan was president here in the USA and Prince Charles and Diana came to the USA on their famous visit. They were met at the airport by the US Chief of Protocol - Mrs. Annenberg who was the wife of a verrrry rich man - and she curtsied to Prince Charles.
Click to expand...
Walter Annenberg was the US Ambassador to the Court of St James and became a friend of the Queen and Prince Philip. The mutual love of horses would have helped, and I believe the Queen stayed at one of the Annenberg properties during a US visit. Wiki states that Charles was also a friend of the family.
 
HRH MAZA said:
THANKS PATY!!
THIS IS THE VIDEO I FOUND, THE CURTSY ITS AROUND 2:44, I THINK ITS A GOOD ONE!! JUST A LITTLE TOO DEEP, ESTILO ESPAÑOL!!!!!!
Click to expand...
Beautiful. Thanks a lot:flowers:
 
Yes, it has been mentioned upthread

pamk said:
I remember in the '80's when Ronald Reagan was president here in the USA and Prince Charles and Diana came to the USA on their famous visit. They were met at the airport by the US Chief of Protocol - Mrs. Annenberg who was the wife of a verrrry rich man - and she cursied to Prince Charles.

Well, all hell broke loose in the American press over that curtsey!
I think that the Ammenbergs were also personal friends of Prince Charles and she didn't want to insult him, but as a representative of the US government, it was felt that she should not have cursied.

.
Click to expand...


Yes, it was mentioned. It was especially foolish because Mrs. Annenberg nearly threw herself at Charles' feet as he debarked from his plan. Even Charles was embarrassed.

Mrs. Annenberg also never failed to remind people in her daily life that, were she in the UK, they would have had to address her as "Lady Annenberg." One of my friends who was interning at the law firm which handled Mr. Annenberg's land holdings said they (the interns and first year law clerks) had a drinking game around it.

If Americans want to curtesy or bow on US soil, they should by all means surrender their allegiance to the US and become citizens of a nation which adheres to this. I happen to know that all major airlines have regular flights to such destinations.

Were I a citizen of the UK, I would perform appropriate obesiance to HM. But I am not.

Having said that, I think I speak for many US citizens in saying, we'd love to have the Queen and her husband visit again any time.
 
NotAPretender said:
If Americans want to curtesy or bow on US soil, they should by all means surrender their allegiance to the US and become citizens of a nation which adheres to this. I happen to know that all major airlines have regular flights to such destinations.
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: "Do it my way or leave!" rarely puts anyone on the side of the person saying it. Free nations do not make rules about minor decisions of personal conduct. Individuals do. It is no more acceptable for a US citizen to bow or curtsey than a Canadian, British, Australian, Spanish, etc. citizen, just as it is no more unacceptable for the latter to refuse.

It's also not so easy to just pack up and leave a country, as I don't think you can show up at "such destinations" and say "I'd like to curtsey. Let me in to live here please." You'd be sent back on the next available flight by immigration if you tried such a petty stunt in most countries.
 
wbenson said:
:rolleyes: "Do it my way or leave!" .
Click to expand...


Mr. Benson, you and I have certainly discussed this previously.

It's certainly not "my way" in this instance; it was the decision of a great number of individuals over 200 years ago upon the founding of the United States and as codified in the years thereafter. I just happen to have had the great good fortune to have been born into a country whose essential beliefs are those that I can uphold. This is one of the very, very minor points of belief, but one that is totally in line.

If one of the absolutes in my life were that I felt the need to have a crowned head to whom to pay obesience, I would certainly have the motivation to move to a country which insists upon such actions. I suggest that alternative is equally available to others who feel differently, if they find that courtesying and bowing is something that they simply cannot live without.

It just seems to me that to live in a democracy carries with it certain obligations, just as living in a monarchy has certain obligations. One of the obligations of living in this particular democracy is that I am under no obligation whatsoever to perform these obesiences.

And, as I recall from reading upthread, it is specifically noted by the palace(s,) in issuing instructions to those coming to pay a call on HM and other royal personages, that such obesience is not considered obligatory in the UK, either. I trust this will forestall the usual response that to not courtsey or bow is to be "rude;" as was noted in that earlier discussion, it would hardly suit the various palaces to advise visitors to act rudely upon their arrival.

Do please PM me at your convenience, Mr. Benson. There is another matter which you and I must discuss.
 
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NotAPretender said:
One of the obligations of living in this particular democracy is that I am under no obligation whatsoever to perform these obesiences.
Click to expand...

I think we agree more than you think! I don't think there is an obligation either (I certainly don't find it "rude" not to; indeed, in another thread I had an argument with someone who kept claiming that)! I just think there is not an obligation to do it or not to do it for anybody, regardless of what their passport says they are.
 
wbenson said:
I think we agree more than you think! I don't think there is an obligation either (I certainly don't find it "rude" not to; indeed, in another thread I had an argument with someone who kept claiming that)! I just think there is not an obligation to do it or not to do it for anybody, regardless of what their passport says they are.
Click to expand...


I can get behind that! :flowers:
 
I believe, regardless of nationality, that being mindful of the culture and traditions of those one meets; a curtsy or bow does not violate one's obligations as a citizen of XYZ country. I would certainly do so when I meet one of the royals, even as a US citizen. I think it's a physical sign of respect that is not beneath me.
 
MBGGfvB said:
I believe, regardless of nationality, that being mindful of the culture and traditions of those one meets; a curtsy or bow does not violate one's obligations as a citizen of XYZ country. I would certainly do so when I meet one of the royals, even as a US citizen. I think it's a physical sign of respect that is not beneath me.
Click to expand...

I'd rather be mindful of my own culture and traditions, as an American. I've never desired to be a faux foreign national (a la Madonna and her "British" accent.) On US soil, we do not bow or curtsey. I don't intend to start, as much as I admire in particular HM.

But I'm sure when you meet a royal (and I like your enthusiasm in stating not if, but when!) on foreign soil, that you will behave appropriately.
 
Great picture! I love the "old world" feeling the black & white picture creates! It also makes me think more of the old world royalty-glamour thing.
 
A woman curtseys princess Letizia yesterday at the 30 anniversary of Spanish Journals Editors Association.
Belga
 
LadyFinn said:
A woman curtseys princess Letizia yesterday at the 30 anniversary of Spanish Journals Editors Association.
Belga
Click to expand...

The Spanish always do such lovely curtsies, pity about her tights though:D
 
Queen Elizabeth II receives Ambassador of Bosnia and Herzegovina Jadranka Negodic at Buckingham Palace on February 17th.
Getty Images
 
I would never bow to a royal, not because I'm citizen of a republic but because I'm a Muslim. Bowing to other human beings is frowned upon in Muslim cultures as all human beings are considered equal. Muslims bow to God only, so I'd stand up upright if I ever meet a royal.

Do Muslims around the world respect this rule? Are there any photographs of Muslims bowing to royals?
 
Kotroman said:
I would never bow to a royal, not because I'm citizen of a republic but because I'm a Muslim. Bowing to other human beings is frowned upon in Muslim cultures as all human beings are considered equal. Muslims bow to God only, so I'd stand up upright if I ever meet a royal.

Do Muslims around the world respect this rule? Are there any photographs of Muslims bowing to royals?
Click to expand...

Don't quote me on it but I think I've seen members of the Jordanian Royal Family bowing and curtseying, also some sheiks from The Middle East
 
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