Will Charles Ever Reign?

[ysbel]

I know we have discussed this subject before, but it is always interesting. Rather than being petty I think Queen Mary (warned by Prince Ernst August of Hanover) was doing what any Matriarch worth her salt would do: protecting her Dynasty, the House of Widsor, and seeing off the over-ambitious interloper. A little power play, where Lord Mountbatten met his match. A morganatic Hesse prince outmanoeuvred by a morganatic Württemberg princess. That must have been galling for the First Sea Lord and Commander of the Allied Forces in the Far East!
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Hmm, Warren, OK but she was protecting a 33 year old name of a dynasty that got pulled out of thin air for political reasons during World War I. It wasn't like she was protecting a treasure that had been held in the family for generations. The British Royal Family has excelled in reinventing itself as the politics of the day have demanded.

I'm sure that everything you say about Earl Mountbatten is true - he was proud, ambitious, grasping. But I still have a problem with making Mary making Philip and Elizabeth pay the price for the Earl's sins. I think the name debacle caused a great rift in their marriage and relationship at first which took the Queen a long time to heal. And whatever trauma Charles and Anne supposedly had during their childhood could only be exasperated by this rift with their parents.

It seems like a lot of damage to pull one braggart down a notch. Mary may have 'protected' her dynasty but I think she ruined her family in the process and that is hardly a free trade.

 

[branchg]

It seems like a lot of damage to pull one braggart down a notch. Mary may have 'protected' her dynasty but I think she ruined her family in the process and that is hardly a free trade.

It's true Queen Mary was outraged by the Earl Mountbatten's bragging, but so was the Queen Mother, who never cared for him. The truth is Churchill agreed the name must remain Windsor and advised the Queen accordingly.

Even if Queen Mary and Queen Elizabeth hadn't been upset, I suspect Churchill would not have agreed to the House of Mountbatten. He detested Earl Mountbatten himself.

 

[Elspeth]

Yes, I always thought the Queen Mother and Churchill had played more of a role in this than Queen Mary. By the time Elizabeth II was on the throne, Queen Mary was old, ill (she died not long after), and not very powerful any more, being two reigns away from the centre of power herself. On the other hand, the Queen Mother also apparently detested Mountbatten's ambitions, and biographies have stated that she and the King had reservations about Philip's courting of Princess Elizabeth at least partly because they were afraid he was being run by Mountbatten, who would become too influential if he were in the background, rather like Uncle Leopold or Baron Stockmar and Victoria.

 

[una]

Well, Philip's name was Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg, not Mountbatten. With the ascension of Charles III, the British royal house would become the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg!

Or even the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg-Saxe-Coburg-Gotha!!

 

[Elspeth]

Um, yes - very British, I must say...

 

[una]

Philip was angry at being marginalized once again at a time when the courtiers were giving him a rough time and stated he was only a "bloody ameoba" used for breeding purposes.

This is quite a funny slip. Amoeba reproduce asexually, so if Philip had been used for breeding like a bloody amoeba, he would have passed 100% of his genes to the next King. Quite an honour really. I guess Philip hadn't joined the WWF yet.

 

[Mippy O]

I don't see why not. I think he will probably be quite old by that time, since his mother's family is long lived, and she has said she will not adbdicate. I should think that Charles will be nearly 70 by the time he ascends the throne. I don't see any point in passing him over for his son. I think Charles would make a better king than his son, who is very young. At one time, I thouoght that Harry might succeed his father, rather than his brother. Who knows? So much could happen between now and then.

 

[branchg]

Um, yes - very British, I must say...

The Queen has barely a drop of English blood in her, nor does most of the family. They are primarily German, although the marriages of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and Lady Diana Spencer means Stuart and Scottish blueblood have been reintroduced into the royal bloodline.

Diana was actually the most British aristocrat to marry an heir to the throne in over two centuries.

 

[Elspeth]

The Queen has barely a drop of English blood in her, nor does most of the family. They are primarily German, although the marriages of Lady Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon and Lady Diana Spencer means Stuart and Scottish blueblood have been reintroduced into the royal bloodline.

Diana was actually the most British aristocrat to marry an heir to the throne in over two centuries.

As Iain would be very quick to point out, British and English aren't the same thing. The Queen is half Scottish, and the royal family is descended directly from the Stuart kings without any help from the Queen Mother or Diana.

 

[Feberin]

I don't see why not. I think he will probably be quite old by that time, since his mother's family is long lived, and she has said she will not adbdicate. I should think that Charles will be nearly 70 by the time he ascends the throne. I don't see any point in passing him over for his son. I think Charles would make a better king than his son, who is very young. At one time, I thouoght that Harry might succeed his father, rather than his brother. Who knows? So much could happen between now and then.

I agree that we really have no idea how the line of sucession will play out. However I think William will most likely be King at some point although he may be excited about becoming king he does seem to have a good idea about his role and I'm sure he will accept being king when the time comes. Also I doubt that he will die young because there are so many people working to keep him safe and healthy.

 

[Margrethe II]

Um, yes - very British, I must say...

.lol.lol.lol.

"MII"

 

[Margrethe II]

I thought I may provide this section from:

Rovert Lacey's ROYAL - Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II

It states; I quote.

Early in 1960, Harold Macmillian arrived at Sandringham for an audience with the Queen and bumped into her Colonel Mustard like uncle, the portly Duke of Gloucester, who seemed greatly disturbed.

'Thank heavens you've come, Prime Minister. the Queen's in a terrible state; there's a fellow called Jones in the billiards room who wants to marry her sister, and Prince Philip's in the library wanting to change the family name to Mountbatten.'

Always fond of a good story, the Prime Minister had managed to combine in his Cluedo-like anecdote the resolution of the two great family problems that had marred the beginning of the reign. Making clear that it was her own idea, and that her husband did not know what she was planning, the Queen asked the Cabinet to approve compromise. Kings, queens, princes and princesses do not actually use surnames. These are needed only for those not in the direct line of succession. So while, as Macmillan put it, 'the name of the House, Family and Dynasty (is) to be Windsor - the name of any "de-royalised"grandson etc., of the Queen and Prince Philip is to be "Mountbatten-Windsor".'


In nowdays, it seems that the name Mountbatten-Windsor is used by more than "de-royalised" members of Her Majesty and His Royal Highnesses family, but there is no doubt that upon Charles' succession that he shall infact retain the dynastic name of Windsor.

Is anyone aware of what the Prince of Wales signed on his marriage register second time round?


"MII"

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

The House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg

If only it would! The British Royal Family should show their ancestry in their name and stop hiding behind this silly PC surname of Windsor. We should be living under the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg not the House of Windsor - Charles really should change the Royal House name. The sooner the Windsor chapter closes, the better in my opinion.
There's too many nasty connotations.

 

[branchg]

Is anyone aware of what the Prince of Wales signed on his marriage register second time round?

I believe it was Mountbatten-Windsor.

 

[Margrethe II]

I believe it was Mountbatten-Windsor.

Thankyou branchg

"MII"

 

[tiaraprin]

The House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg

If only it would! The British Royal Family should show their ancestry in their name and stop hiding behind this silly PC surname of Windsor. We should be living under the House of Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Glucksburg not the House of Windsor - Charles really should change the Royal House name. The sooner the Windsor chapter closes, the better in my opinion.
There's too many nasty connotations.

I wonder how the rest of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales would take to that. Scotland doesn't wish to be part of Great Britain anymore, and Wales has an anti-monarchy faction. I would love to see how many more anti-monarchists would join over a German name. I myself am part German, and I even get comments here in the states for having German blood. I wonder what the Sovereign's subjects would say.

 

[BeatrixFan]

Re:

I wonder how the rest of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales would take to that.

The Government are adamant to bring in cultures etc from other countries - if the Royal Family have a German/Danish name then they should use it and bring cultural traits from Germany and Denmark into British Society.

Scotland doesn't wish to be part of Great Britain anymore

A group of Scots don't wish to be part of Great Britain. The majority may feel a whimsy different.

Wales has an anti-monarchy faction

With respect, so does England, Northern Ireland and Belize for that matter - it doesn't mean that the Monarchy is going to fall around our heads.

I would love to see how many more anti-monarchists would join over a German name. I myself am part German, and I even get comments here in the states for having German blood. I wonder what the Sovereign's subjects would say

Basically, it's this ignorance about Germany that we still have. We're anti-German because we're British - in fact, we're anti-Nazi not Anti-German. We owe alot to the Germans and even more to the Danes, the Dutch etc etc. Bowing to the skinhead faction who will never like the RF because they have money and the skinheads don't really won't do anyone any favours. This Windsor farce is just too much. Mountbatten is a little better but the Royal Family should have an equally Royal sounding name.

 

[branchg]

I wonder how the rest of England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, and Wales would take to that. Scotland doesn't wish to be part of Great Britain anymore, and Wales has an anti-monarchy faction. I would love to see how many more anti-monarchists would join over a German name. I myself am part German, and I even get comments here in the states for having German blood. I wonder what the Sovereign's subjects would say.

Well, the fact is the Royal Family is German and has been since 1714. Yes, there are English and Scottish bloodlines as well, but the majority of the royal blood is Germanic.

You could even argue most of the British people are, in fact, of ancient German ancestry. Going back to the end of the Roman Empire, Britian was conquered by the Saxon Kings of Wessex, who were emerged supreme over various Germanic tribes. The monarchy began with King Egbert shortly thereafter and flowed onwards to today.

 

[una]

Well, the fact is the Royal Family is German and has been since 1714. Yes, there are English and Scottish bloodlines as well, but the majority of the royal blood is Germanic.

But it's getting less Germanic by the minute. William must be half English and an eighth Scottish, as well as some Russian? And how likely is he to marry a German wife?

 

[Saragli]

The Current Queen is half Scottish and half German. Prince Charles is part Scottish, part Danish, part German. William is mostly english and scottish and danish. There is not much German blood left.

 

[branchg]

Diana used to call the Royal Family "those Germans" on a bad day.....LOL. A true English aristocrat I guess! Princess Marina used to call the Queen Mother and Princess Alice, "those common little Scottish girls". In Marina's world, the Queen was only half-royal.

 

[Warren]

Diana used to call the Royal Family "those Germans" on a bad day.....LOL. A true English aristocrat I guess! Princess Marina used to call the Queen Mother and Princess Alice, "those common little Scottish girls". In Marina's world, the Queen was only half-royal.

And of course there were those (Germans and the Prince of Wales's daughters) who looked down on Princess May of Teck because not only was she a mere Serene Highness, but she belonged to a morganatic branch of the House of Württemberg. Needless to say, Queen Mary, Empress of India, had the last laugh.
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[branchg]

And of course there were those (Germans and the Prince of Wales's daughters) who looked down on Princess May of Teck because not only was she a mere Serene Highness, but she belonged to a morganatic branch of the House of Württemberg. Needless to say, Queen Mary, Empress of India, had the last laugh.

I always thought it was a bit odd the German ducal houses and principalities looked down on May of Teck because her paternal grandfather married a Hungarian countess. After all, her mother was HRH Princess Mary of Cambridge and a grandaughter of George III.

Evidently, Queen Victoria thought the German royal houses were ridiculous and I think one of her daughters once attended a Prussian court gathering and had to go in behind her husband because of their complicated rules of protocol. She told her mother she was never going to a Prussian imperial gathering again!

 

[tiaraprin]

And of course there were those (Germans and the Prince of Wales's daughters) who looked down on Princess May of Teck because not only was she a mere Serene Highness, but she belonged to a morganatic branch of the House of Württemberg. Needless to say, Queen Mary, Empress of India, had the last laugh.
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Yes, Alexandra and her daughters would make fun of Queen Mary by saying "May with her Wurttenberg hands" emphasizing her morganatic blood. May was only half royal to them because of Mary Adelaide's direct descent from George III.

 

[Zonk]

Does the current Royal Family even speak German? No to disrespect to Germany or anything...but they (the Royals) have lived, spoke and been and born English for at least 100 years (just going back to Queen Victoria) and they are still considered foreigners? What's the measure of an Englishman/person? I mean at some respect...we were all immigrants at one time or another.

 

[Elspeth]

According to one of her biographies, Queen Mary was in danger of not ever marrying because back then royalty didn't marry commoners, even members of the nobility, and her morganatic background meant that she wasn't "good enough" for the various princes and dukes of the German royal houses. It's lucky for her that Queen Victoria was more open-minded than some of these German royals and that character as well as background mattered to her.

 

[Zonk]

In addition to my previous post, please note the following:

Writer H.G. Wells wrote about Britain's "alien and uninspiring court", and George famously replied: "I may be uninspiring, but I'll be damned if I'm alien."

Please note that the George was King George V.

I apologize if the quote offends anyone!

 

[tiaraprin]

According to one of her biographies, Queen Mary was in danger of not ever marrying because back then royalty didn't marry commoners, even members of the nobility, and her morganatic background meant that she wasn't "good enough" for the various princes and dukes of the German royal houses. It's lucky for her that Queen Victoria was more open-minded than some of these German royals and that character as well as background mattered to her.

That biographer was James Pope Hennessy, and he was her official biographer I believe.

 

[Elspeth]

Thanks, Tiaraprin; I couldn't remember if it was the official biography I'd read it in or one of the other books about her.

 

[branchg]

Does the current Royal Family even speak German? No to disrespect to Germany or anything...but they (the Royals) have lived, spoke and been and born English for at least 100 years (just going back to Queen Victoria) and they are still considered foreigners? What's the measure of an Englishman/person? I mean at some respect...we were all immigrants at one time or another.

The Duke of Windsor was very fluent in German as was his mother, Queen Mary. I believe they were the last members of the royal family to be truly comfortable with the language, although I'm sure the Queen and Prince Philip both can get by.