The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #1461  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:59 AM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,348
I was unaware it was ever not part of the thread...you only have to go up a few posts to see someone talking about Camilla's affairs. I was responding to the post right above mine that was talking about affairs as well.
I

It is part of Charles and Camilla's relationship, part of who they are and what they represent. It is part of Charles's legacy by his own action.


LaRae
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #1462  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:05 AM
Roslyn's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tintenbar, Australia
Posts: 3,937
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
It is part of Charles and Camilla's relationship, part of who they are and what they represent. It is part of Charles's legacy by his own action.
LaRae
But it is not part of Charles and Camilla's marriage since 2005. It is only part of the mindset of people who choose to judge Charles and Camilla and hold against them forevermore things that occurred during the term of their previous marriages.
__________________

__________________
"That's it then. Cancel the kitchen scraps for lepers and orphans, no more merciful beheadings, -- and call off Christmas!!!"
Reply With Quote
  #1463  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:10 AM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
But it is not part of Charles and Camilla's marriage since 2005. It is only part of the mindset of people who choose to judge Charles and Camilla and hold against them forevermore things that occurred during the term of their previous marriages.

It's always going to be a part of their marriage. Just like in the Diana threads certain things always come up. It's connected to them. It simply is part of the events surrounding their relationship.

Has nothing to do with judging (only God can judge one's salvation). No one should be surprised however if those who are religious have an issue with their behavior and what Charles will be to the CoE. I am sure other kings have been felt the same way about due to (known) behavior.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #1464  
Old 07-23-2014, 06:32 AM
Queen Camilla's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago, United States
Posts: 1,861
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARG View Post
Can anyone tell me why Charles faith and lack of fitness to be King is once again hijacking this thread?
Warren moved them from Camilla and Public thread to this thread.

Maybe they should belong in the Monarchy under Charles thread.
Reply With Quote
  #1465  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:04 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
It's always going to be a part of their marriage. Just like in the Diana threads certain things always come up. It's connected to them. It simply is part of the events surrounding their relationship.

Has nothing to do with judging (only God can judge one's salvation). No one should be surprised however if those who are religious have an issue with their behavior and what Charles will be to the CoE. I am sure other kings have been felt the same way about due to (known) behavior.


LaRae
This thread is specifically SINCE 2005 so anything that happened before they married in April 2005 is actually irrelevant to this thread.

I seem to remember that the title of this thread was changed to include the 'since 2005' section after it kept getting derailed by people wanting to go over and over the pre-2005 stuff.
Reply With Quote
  #1466  
Old 07-23-2014, 07:10 AM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,348
If the moderator is moving stuff (as stated by Queen Camilla) to this thread then they must have expanded the scope of topic.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #1467  
Old 07-23-2014, 10:03 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
Well if you are going to use past examples of kingly behavior to justify what a current king (and head of the COE) may or may not do then striking off your wife's head for treason should be acceptable as well....

Because someone has had bad behavior does not excuse another person's behavior.

LaRae
First, this discussion was moved here because it relates to Charles and Camilla's decision to have a civil wedding.

Regarding Pranter's point, I understand what you are saying but I don't agree that it is a good point. St. Paul, one the patron of St. Paul's Cathedral, actually tortured and murdered Christians before his conversion on the road to Damascus. Some of the early Christians mistrusted him, but he became a great leader in the early Christian church.

I'm not a member of the church of England, but Wikipedia lists many of their saints. Several, if not most, lived immoral lives before dedicating themselves to God. The church not only forgave them their sins but hold them up as examples of hope for salvation.
Reply With Quote
  #1468  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:20 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,348
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
First, this discussion was moved here because it relates to Charles and Camilla's decision to have a civil wedding.

Regarding Pranter's point, I understand what you are saying but I don't agree that it is a good point. St. Paul, one the patron of St. Paul's Cathedral, actually tortured and murdered Christians before his conversion on the road to Damascus. Some of the early Christians mistrusted him, but he became a great leader in the early Christian church.

I'm not a member of the church of England, but Wikipedia lists many of their saints. Several, if not most, lived immoral lives before dedicating themselves to God. The church not only forgave them their sins but hold them up as examples of hope for salvation.

I never said they couldn't be forgiven etc...my response was to something another person said, not a stand alone statement.

The point you bring up about Paul...those things he did PRIOR to conversion to the Faith (and there are tons of examples like his to be had)... ..Charles (and other kings previously mentioned) were already Christian when they fell off the wagon...the example doesn't really mirror well.

It's not so surprising when a non-Christian does something immoral (ie Paul, Augustus etc etc)...the head of a Church (ie Charles) is a different story.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #1469  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:35 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
It's not so surprising when a non-Christian does something immoral (ie Paul, Augustus etc etc)...the head of a Church (ie Charles) is a different story.


LaRae
I don't think Christian and non-Christian really have anything to do with immorality. All are prone to goof up just the same as we're all humans. Actually, when you think about it, Charles is NOT the head of the church yet nor will be be after he is crowned. He will be the Supreme Governor of the Church yes but as has been stated, its mostly a ceremonial role and Charles wouldn't be preaching from a pulpit or calling bingo. The spiritual leader of the CoE I believe is the Archbishop of Canterbury. (correct me if I'm wrong here please)

There is only one source that Charles has to answer to for anything in his lifetime and I do believe that's a very personal matter that's really none of our concern.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1470  
Old 07-23-2014, 04:43 PM
maryr0249's Avatar
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Franklin, NC, United States
Posts: 68
Thank you!
Reply With Quote
  #1471  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:00 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,019
Any person who claims that Christians can't be sinners are wrong. In fact the big thing is for ALL Christians to not only ask for forgiveness from God when they do sin but also to forgive others who sin against them - it is actually part of the Lord's Prayer - the one prayer we were given by Christ Himself.

If it is good enough for Christ to tell me to 'forgive those who have sinned against me' who am I to refuse to following that instruction - as that would be very much against the teachings of Christ.

Charles publicly asked for forgiveness in the prayer said at the blessing service, he made himself right with the Church of England by getting married to Camilla so that they were no longer 'living in sin' (as William and Kate did when they finally married - the church disapproves of sleeping with anyone outside of marriage without publicly asking for forgiveness but privately is all that is needed anyway). End of matter for the CoE and it should also be the end of the matter for any true follower of Christ as He instructed us to forgive others.
Reply With Quote
  #1472  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:05 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,198
And on a lighter note. For those that wouldn't be surprised at acts of a non-Christian, for a fee, I will dance in a circle skyclad while chanting moo and bowing down and eating purple grass to Beulah the Beloved Bovine.

Tickets are going fast. Reserve your spot now.

(sorry mods.. the um "divil" made me do it)
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1473  
Old 07-23-2014, 05:16 PM
Pranter's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 5,348
No one claimed Christians aren't sinners bertie, nor was it ever said they couldn't be forgiven. You are tilting at windmills.


Osipi yes I agree, everyone is prone to 'goof up' ....evidently for some people it (the Queen or King being the head of the CoE) did mean something more than a ceremonial position, otherwise there would of never been the hue and cry about it.


LaRae
Reply With Quote
  #1474  
Old 07-24-2014, 01:52 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: central valley, United States
Posts: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
And on a lighter note. For those that wouldn't be surprised at acts of a non-Christian, for a fee, I will dance in a circle skyclad while chanting moo and bowing down and eating purple grass to Beulah the Beloved Bovine.

Tickets are going fast. Reserve your spot now.

(sorry mods.. the um "divil" made me do it)
Will you have a broom of fallen peacock feathers as do the skyclad Monks of the Digambar sect of Jainism?
Reply With Quote
  #1475  
Old 07-24-2014, 02:02 AM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 9,198
Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
Will you have a broom of fallen peacock feathers as do the skyclad Monks of the Digambar sect of Jainism?
Sadly no as it sounds gorgeous but I do have a hand carved besom that I can use.
__________________
“In my walks, every man I meet is my superior in some way, and in that I learn from him.”
~~~Ralph Waldo Emerson~~~
Reply With Quote
  #1476  
Old 07-24-2014, 09:27 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Washington, United States
Posts: 1,146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
The point you bring up about Paul...those things he did PRIOR to conversion to the Faith (and there are tons of examples like his to be had)... ..Charles (and other kings previously mentioned) were already Christian when they fell off the wagon...the example doesn't really mirror well.

It's not so surprising when a non-Christian does something immoral (ie Paul, Augustus etc etc)...the head of a Church (ie Charles) is a different story.

LaRae
I don't agree with your objections to the analogy about Paul, who, like Christ, was Jewish. But if you don't like that example, what about St. Francis of Assisi who was raised a Christian but lived a dissolute life before he repented and became a recognized church leader? Another example is Thomas Becket. Becket was known as a selfish, greedy priest. After he was consecrated as Archbishop, he reformed and gave away all his possessions.

The point is that Great Britain's Monarch has traditionally had a role in the Church of England, regardless of the monarch's morals. I understand the objection that Charles and Camilla weren't married in the Church of England, but I don't understand the argument that Charles should be disqualified because of mistakes he made over 20 years ago. One of the major pillars of the Christian faith is redemption.
Reply With Quote
  #1477  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:28 AM
Duchess of Durham's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Durham, United States
Posts: 691
Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I don't agree with your objections to the analogy about Paul, who, like Christ, was Jewish. But if you don't like that example, what about St. Francis of Assisi who was raised a Christian but lived a dissolute life before he repented and became a recognized church leader? Another example is Thomas Becket. Becket was known as a selfish, greedy priest. After he was consecrated as Archbishop, he reformed and gave away all his possessions.

The point is that Great Britain's Monarch has traditionally had a role in the Church of England, regardless of the monarch's morals. I understand the objection that Charles and Camilla weren't married in the Church of England, but I don't understand the argument that Charles should be disqualified because of mistakes he made over 20 years ago. One of the major pillars of the Christian faith is redemption.
I know that in the Catholic church if you are married in a civil ceremony, you can have your marriage blessed and in the eyes of the Church you are married even though you did not marry in the church. Is that the same for the CoE? Charles and Camilla aside.
Reply With Quote
  #1478  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:35 PM
AfricanAUSSIE's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pranter View Post
I never said they couldn't be forgiven etc...my response was to something another person said, not a stand alone statement.

The point you bring up about Paul...those things he did PRIOR to conversion to the Faith (and there are tons of examples like his to be had)... ..Charles (and other kings previously mentioned) were already Christian when they fell off the wagon...the example doesn't really mirror well.

It's not so surprising when a non-Christian does something immoral (ie Paul, Augustus etc etc)...the head of a Church (ie Charles) is a different story.


LaRae
This is a good point.

I think I would have been more convinced of Charles conviction (for being sorry) if he had given Camilla up just as other Christians have done when they have truly repented. Someone gave an example earlier...the greedy priest that gave up all his possessions when he repented.

To repent is not only to say sorry but to turn a new leaf. Give up the sinful way. It is very difficult indeed if one is doing it on one's own strength.
Reply With Quote
  #1479  
Old 07-24-2014, 08:51 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,969
There are a number of posters on here who spout " christian " values but dont walk the walk. christian values are about the new testament, and too many talk old testament " eye for an eye".

charles and camilla both spoke themost extreme act of contrition at the blessing of their union.

Why do people on here presume to stand in judgement on others?

Careful because you too will be judged.

The Christian faith is about forgiveness, charity and love. More of you should remember that and act upon it.
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #1480  
Old 07-24-2014, 10:56 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
There are a number of posters on here who spout " christian " values but dont walk the walk. christian values are about the new testament, and too many talk old testament " eye for an eye".

charles and camilla both spoke themost extreme act of contrition at the blessing of their union.

Why do people on here presume to stand in judgement on others?

Careful because you too will be judged.

The Christian faith is about forgiveness, charity and love. More of you should remember that and act upon it.

Well said! Funny the people who should care the most, Wills & Harry, appear to genuinely like Camila. In my opinion these are the only two people who should have the most against her.


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
camilla, duchess of cornwall, marriage, prince charles, prince of wales


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
best gown best outfit birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events denmark duchess of cambridge far-right fashion poll general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia iñaki urdangarín king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein margherita monarchy news november 2016 october 2016 picture of the week prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince nicholas prince oscar princess claire of luxembourg princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess of asturias princess sofia princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia gala dresses queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queenmother queen rania queen rania australia november 2016 queen silvia state visit state visit to denmark stephanie sweden swedish royal family united kingdom victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:56 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises