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  #221  
Old 06-26-2016, 04:43 PM
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wel I am not pitting one against another. Diana had her faults but she was in many ways a great asset to the RF, till she fell out with them. But Sophie has never shone IMO and what she and Ed are best known for is pursuing their commerical careers, making a hash of them and leaving huge debts. Till the queen clearly had to rein them in, tell them to stop being in business and do royal duties in exchange for her helping them financially.

Wow- this is one of the best examples of selective fact choosing I've ever seen.




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  #222  
Old 06-26-2016, 05:34 PM
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Wow- this is one of the best examples of selective fact choosing I've ever seen.
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  #223  
Old 06-26-2016, 05:54 PM
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Sophie is famous for giving a very foolish and indiscreet interview, for running a business and leaving debts. Edward is famous for having a hissy fit over some silly thing, I think it was Its A Royal Knockout. And for his film company following William around at his Scottish university, when the press had agreed to leave W alone... and for also consistently making a loss with his businesses. Facts. I have read that courtiers beleived that the queen was much too soft in letting htem go on with their business dealings and that in the end, she had to put a stop to it and get them doing royal duties.
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  #224  
Old 06-26-2016, 06:21 PM
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Diana and Sophie, Countess of Wessex

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Sophie is famous for giving a very foolish and indiscreet interview, for running a business and leaving debts. Edward is famous for having a hissy fit over some silly thing, I think it was Its A Royal Knockout. And for his film company following William around at his Scottish university, when the press had agreed to leave W alone... and for also consistently making a loss with his businesses. Facts. I have read that courtiers beleived that the queen was much too soft in letting htem go on with their business dealings and that in the end, she had to put a stop to it and get them doing royal duties.

I believe you are using the word famous incorrectly.

If I use it the way you are Diana is famous for the way she died. We have a whole generation of people who've never seen Diana alive now and that will continue.

The Queen gave Edward and Sophie a chance to live their lives exactly as William and Catherine are doing now. All humans make mistake and I imagine William holds no grudge against his Uncle.

Sophie gave an interview and so did Diana.
We are allowed to compare correct?

The fact that you turn to shaming others to highlight Diana is such a sadness. I imagine even Diana wouldn't stoop that low.

The Earl and Countess of Wessex are outstanding representatives for the BRF. End of. You ask anyone on their Canadian tour at the moment, and I bet they haven't heard of It's A Royal Knockout. Come to think of it I hardly think anyone outside this forum know.
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  #225  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:41 PM
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To be honest, all anyone needs to do is read the very active threads here that are continuous on Edward and Sophie and their family to dispel any notion that they are not a very integral part of the British Royal Family.
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  #226  
Old 06-26-2016, 09:50 PM
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First of all, Sophie is lovely. She looks somewhat like Diana, but is her own person. Diana was a great asset to the BRF. She brought them to life. The stuff that followed was caused by both Diana and Charles. But, the stuffy, uninteresting family, became a by word. Yes, there are young people who do not remember Diana. There are young people in our country who do not remember John Kennedy. Or young people in UK who do not remember Princess Margaret.
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  #227  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by COUNTESS View Post
First of all, Sophie is lovely. She looks somewhat like Diana, but is her own person. Diana was a great asset to the BRF. She brought them to life. The stuff that followed was caused by both Diana and Charles. But, the .
I woudlnt' say lovely. I think she's OK looking, not unpleasing to the eye, but not a beauty or striking looking as Diana was. And I think that she did adopt some of Diana's "look", such as haircut, clothes style.. etc. But I don't think she's a great asset to the RF. What she is best known for is her indiscreet interview with the "fake Sheik".
I don't follow her as a royal, but I don't see many stories about her in the papers so I assume that she's "doing the job", adequately but without any special glamour or anything to interest the public in any special way.

Diana whatever her later faults, did. She was warm, approachable, and genuine and it came across even when she was a very shy awkward young woman of 20 or so. She wasn't very clever, but her naturalness made her liked and loved by the public. I wouldn't say the RF was boring exactly but she DID bring her star quality to it and raised its profile.
She did behave stupidly and badly in later years, she did use her star quality against the RF and her husband... and I don't agree with many of the things she did then.. but it does not take away form her good side and her ability to relate to people, to bring great attention to various charites (not many people had heard of the landmines issue till she came along)...
Yes eventually she'll be less well known and less remembered but that happens to everyone. And for about 15 years she was one of the best known women on the planet.
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  #228  
Old 06-27-2016, 07:29 AM
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Diana and Sophie, Countess of Wessex

Sophie isn't seen in the papers because she's a lesser known Royal. Particularly when she attends a family event with either The Queen or Catherine you know who's going to be on the front cover.

You can't compare Sophie to Diana in regards to press coverage.
One was married to the heir to the throne, second (might be wrong) Royal marriage after Anne and first new Princess in the royal household since QEQM (also don't quote me). The second married the 7th in line for the throne (at the time) and in the years where royalty was in the limelight for a whole range of reasons and none of them glamorous.

At the time of marriage Sophie was the best asset the RF has, she's so unbelievably loyal to the RF and her warmth and welcoming attitude has provided much stability for the RF over the years. She's been through a hell of a lot.

She is not best known for the fake sheikh story, if she is to you then you ought to take a good look at the actual work she does.

Problem is with this whole conversation that using others to make Diana look better doesn't wash very well.
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  #229  
Old 06-27-2016, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post


Problem is with this whole conversation that using others to make Diana look better doesn't wash very well.
That is the crux of it all. Regardless of people's opinions on each women, using one against the other to make either look bad is not great.

You either like Diana or you don't. The same goes for Sophie.
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  #230  
Old 06-27-2016, 07:57 AM
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The biggest problem that I can see is that for one female, Diana, her life and times are now frozen in history with nothing more to be added so we can only look at and discuss her life and times up to the point of her death. For the second female in this discussion, Sophie, her comparisons with Diana and her relationship with Diana was a reality for a very, very short time span and Sophie has continued on in the decades following Diana's death to prove her loyalty, her commitment and her devotion to her husband, her family and her mother in law.

Sadly, Diana never had the chance to move on, grow and perhaps strengthen old relationships and make solid new ones. People like Sophie, Charles, Diana's children and many other people are still moving on with their lives and their thoughts, words and deeds have evolved over time. They are not people frozen in time as Diana, unfortunately, is. We shouldn't base our opinion of the living without looking at the whole picture first than just a momentary snapshot in time.
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  #231  
Old 06-27-2016, 03:53 PM
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I am not a fan of Sophie's but I don't violently dislike her. I think she seems to be doing her job, as a royal but then, that's what she's paid for. I don't think she does it with any great inspiration and if she does not get a lot of press coverage, that's because she is nto really newsworthy. And my disapproval of her is to do largely with her and Ed's insistence on working in their businesses, when it was obvious that neither of them was very successful and mostly they just made a loss. I think that the queen reached a point where she had to cry halt to them and insist that they gave up running businesses and take on royal duties. Courtiers seem to feel that she should have put her foot down earlier. So overall I'm not very impressed by her or Edward.
Diana did behave foolishly and badly, in the break up of her marriage, but in her defence she was desperately unhappy and not at all sure what she wanted to do, and she needed IMO help to sort out her life.
And when she was in the RF she worked hard, did her duties with a great deal of style and warmth and won a lot of attention for the RF, by so doing.
We don't know what would have happened had she lived. Perhaps her life would nto have gone well, she might have ended up leading a private life, and being a "rich lady on a yacht", and given up her charity work. or Gotten into celebrity lifestyle and lost touch with her roots.
We don't know.
Or she might have settled down, done some charity work, perhaps had a second marriage and had a happy successful middle age.
But I thought that the thread was about S's relationship with Diana. As you say it didn't last for very long. So it is hard ot say much about it. My impresson was that Diana felt that S was trying to copy her...and that she didn't like that. And that since Sophie joined the RF's circle when Diana was leaving it, and when she was disapproved of by the Royals, Sophie didn't lik her much...because she heard the RF's negative opinion of her
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  #232  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denville View Post
I think she seems to be doing her job, as a royal but then, that's what she's paid for.
She's not paid. Being a royal is not a job. If it was Diana would have got paid more to do her job.

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Originally Posted by Denville View Post
her and Ed's insistence on working in their businesses, when it was obvious that neither of them was very successful and mostly they just made a loss.
Something The Queen allowed them to do. Nobody knows if you're going to be successful at something unless you try.


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My impresson was that Diana felt that S was trying to copy her...and that she didn't like that. And that since Sophie joined the RF's circle when Diana was leaving it, and when she was disapproved of by the Royals, Sophie didn't lik her much...because she heard the RF's negative opinion of her
Out of genuine curiosity how did you form this impression? What have you read to suggest that Diana herself every said/hinted that Sophie was copying her. I imagine as a self thinking human being Sophie can form an opinion of someone without being influence. As any woman/person in the UK at that time Sophie would have known about Diana and a fair bit of information before they even met.
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  #233  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:04 PM
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IMO there isn't much to discuss regarding their relationship. One was in the process of leaving the BRF and one was taking the first steps of joining it. It reminds me of Denmark's Alexandra and Mary. While they were close in age they were leading very different lives during those years. Diana was married with children. Sophie a career woman who was dating the Queen's youngest son. Apart from tennis, I don't believe that they really had shared interests or socialized with the same people.

They have similar coloring and honestly I find the hair/clothing similarities reflected what was popular for young career women during the late eighties and early nineties.
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  #234  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:27 PM
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IMO there isn't much to discuss regarding their relationship. One was in the process of leaving the BRF and one was taking the first steps of joining it. It .
I agree. I don't think they knew each other well at all. But I've read that Diana called Sophie something like "my imitator" and I DO think that she adopted somthing of Di's look, such as a similar suit for her engagement interview and a similar haircut. So I get the feeling that Diana didn't like being copied by her. And that she wasn't too fond of S because Sophie seemed to get on very well with the Queen etc and by doing this, she rather "smashed" Di's belief that the RF don't treat brides from outside very well or that they are so wrapped up in their own way of life that they don't really make an effort to befriend new outsider wives. And that Sophie had been told by RF people that DIana was difficult, erratic, selfish etc and she tended to agree with it, because she was now becoming an "insider" of the RF circle.
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  #235  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:34 PM
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As I recall, it was a tabloidy thing. Diana was supposed to have called Sophie "mini me", but I don't think that was in a reliable newspaper.

There was a story about Sophie and Diana being together with the royal woman and Diana asked questions and said that had demeaning implications to Sophie, such as "I expect it's hard for you to buy much formal-wear", or something like that. Again, it was gossip.

When Sophie came on the scene, the tabloids were trying to make her out to be some kind of Royal Family Saviour or else comparing her unfavourably with Diana.

One of the photographers said that the resemblance to the early Diana was uncanny "except when she turned around."

There's a photo of Sophie greeting the Queen Mother, taken in profile, and she does look like Diana in it. They two women had a similar hair colour, a similar shape of nose, and a rather pointy chin. (That's no insult, as I have a pointy chin myself.)

Diana set many trends; to that end, many women could have been said to have been "copying Diana."




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Out of genuine curiosity how did you form this impression? What have you read to suggest that Diana herself every said/hinted that Sophie was copying her.
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  #236  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:44 PM
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I don't see a resemblance really. Sophie had a wide butt, and a sharp featured face. but she did seem to dress in a very similar suit to Di for her engagement.
I have read about the remarks made by Diana in a book, not sure which one, but it did state that Diana did not take to Sophie, because she felt that S was imitating her, and that she was getting on better with the RF than SHE had done. And that Sophie believed the RF's story about Diana. I haven't read that Diana made such remarks to Sophie, the only thing Ive read that indicated rudeness was that at some kind of RF get together, Diana stared intently at Sophie.. Perhaps curiosity overcame her good manners or perhaps she was trying to intimidate her...
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  #237  
Old 06-27-2016, 04:57 PM
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I don't see a resemblance really. Sophie had a wide butt, and a sharp featured face. but she did seem to dress in a very similar suit to Di for her engagement.
I have read about the remarks made by Diana in a book, not sure which one, but it did state that Diana did not take to Sophie, because she felt that S was imitating her, and that she was getting on better with the RF than SHE had done. And that Sophie believed the RF's story about Diana. I haven't read that Diana made such remarks to Sophie, the only thing Ive read that indicated rudeness was that at some kind of RF get together, Diana stared intently at Sophie.. Perhaps curiosity overcame her good manners or perhaps she was trying to intimidate her...
No matter how you look at it, what stands out like a sore thumb is Diana's overblown sense of self importance. Perhaps its all tabloid fodder to create a rift between the two women who, at that time, really would have no real reason to spend a lot of time together and I'm of the opinion that neither woman actually gave the other much thought at all.

There is no question that during the Diana years as Princess of Wales, what she wore, how she did her hair, how she wore her jewelry was copied by millions of women all over the globe. To insinuate that Sophie would deliberately want to copy Diana, to me, is just plain silly.
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  #238  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:20 PM
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Well I don't know if its true. I'm only telling you what I've read.. And if Di did feel that Sophie was copying her I could understand her being irritated. I thought thtat she looked like she was adopting Di's earlier rather "mumsy" look for her engagement suit. if I were in Di's shoes and believed that S was copying me I would be rather miffed.. and feel "Get your own style Sophie."
But if you say that millions of women Did Copy Diana's look -why would it be silly to believe that Sophie too might copy it?
and I don't see that it was an overblown self importance on Diana's part. To have your future sister in law, who is a public figure, seeming to try ot look like you is not the same as being imitated by women who are buying a cut price version of the fashions you have chosen.
Was Sophie doing this perhaps because she was aware of how popular Di had been and hoped that looking like her would get more press attention? I don't know but I Do believe she did imitate Di's look.
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  #239  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:20 PM
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I agree whole-heartedly. When Sophie first appeared on the scene, in 1993,it was when Diana's was getting known for being highly controversial. There was the Morton book the previous year which resulted in a lot of negative comments about Diana's instability. Over the years following, there more negative stories about Diana's relationship with the BRF and her private scandals. By the time Sophie's relationship with Edward was seen as serious, Diana is the LAST woman Sophie would have wanted to seem like.

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There is no question that during the Diana years as Princess of Wales, what she wore, how she did her hair, how she wore her jewelry was copied by millions of women all over the globe. To insinuate that Sophie would deliberately want to copy Diana, to me, is just plain silly.
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  #240  
Old 06-27-2016, 05:29 PM
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I don't think that she was trying to get a "mumsy" look. It was more of a professional look, to me. It was a sober colour, and the only things brightening it up were it were the beads around the jacket collar, earrings, and a pendant necklace. IMO Sophie was making a statement that she was a serious working woman. She wore a camisole underneath rather than a frilly blouse and sturdy, sensible shoes. Her hose were a neutral colour, rather than the black or charcoal that were in style then. The suit was suitable for a board meeting. Unfortunately, when she turned around, the line of the jacket cut across her hips and reinforced her pear shape. I remember a former Canadian Governor General wearing a suit that had the same effect. Most unfortunate.

On the other hand, Diana's engagement suit was a bright shade of blue which suited both her eyes and her engagement ring. She wore a colourful, tied blouse with it and flat pumps with a bow. It was a much more frilly, princess-to-be outfit.

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I thought thtat she looked like she was adopting Di's earlier rather "mumsy" look for her engagement suit. if I were in Di's shoes and believed that S was copying me I would be rather miffed.. and feel "Get your own style Sophie."
But if you say that millions of women Did Copy Diana's look -why would it be silly to believe that Sophie too might copy it?
and I don't see that it was an overblown self importance on Diana's part. To have your future sister in law, who is a public figure, seeming to try ot look like you is not the same as being imitated by women who are buying a cut price version of the fashions you have chosen.
Was Sophie doing this perhaps because she was aware of how popular Di had been and hoped that looking like her would get more press attention? I don't know but I Do believe she did imitate Di's look.
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