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  #61  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
It depends on the Will. We don't know if only the heir of Frst Gustav Albrecht is required to marry a noble, protestant and arian lady or ar also the second heir like it was in the Prussia Case. If it is only his heir then Prince Robin and his descendantsd would not be excluded.
I think we still don't know...someone says it only implies only to Prince Gustav and others that implies for anyone further who wants to be heir to his wast wealth.
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  #62  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:23 PM
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Excuse me, but what is an "Aryan lady" exactly ? Was Prince Richard's father a Nazi or something like that ?
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Probably means from German/Austrian noble family...
It means not jewish. We have to remember that the Will was written dzuring the NS-time in Germany. during that time people had to proofe that they didn't marry jewish or part-jewish persons.
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  #63  
Old 03-15-2017, 05:25 PM
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So very sorry to hear the news.
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  #64  
Old 03-15-2017, 06:34 PM
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It means not jewish. We have to remember that the Will was written dzuring the NS-time in Germany. during that time people had to proofe that they didn't marry jewish or part-jewish persons.
Oh yes, I think I remember that Marie Valerie zu Schleswig-Holstein had to prove that she is not of Jewish origin before her marriage to the Duke von Arenberg.

To prove that her aunts had to write letters from Great Britain in order to confirm it.
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  #65  
Old 03-15-2017, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Marc23 View Post
Oh yes, I think I remember that Marie Valerie zu Schleswig-Holstein had to prove that she is not of Jewish origin before her marriage to the Duke von Arenberg.



To prove that her aunts had to write letters from Great Britain in order to confirm it.


That's correct, since she was born out of wedlock and raised by a Jewish family her aunts Princesses Helena Victoria & Marie Louise signed an affidavit confirming her parental lineage the result being she could marry an Aryan and also, more importantly, probably saved her from the horrors of the Final solution.

As someone stated here somewhere, some time ago, during the time when the will was written it was quite a common clause to include bans against non-aryan marriages since that could mean that the family estate was confiscated by the German government.
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  #66  
Old 03-15-2017, 08:40 PM
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Excuse me, but what is an "Aryan lady" exactly ? Was Prince Richard's father a Nazi or something like that ?
Yes, that is Nazi talk and he was a Nazi. So, all the hemming and hawing, he didn't want any 'inferior races or religions".
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  #67  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:04 AM
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Yes, that is Nazi talk and he was a Nazi. So, all the hemming and hawing, he didn't want any 'inferior races or religions".
It is way too easy to claim someone is a Nazi. Note that the grandfather of Prince Gustav was custodian of an immense estate with historic heirlooms and large properties. He had hundreds of tennants and workers he felt responsible for.

Without symbolic statements like such a clausule, the Nazis could have blamed the Sayn-Wittgensteins of Deutschfeindlichkeit (hostility towards the true German patriottic cause) and therefore an enemy of the Nazi state. With this they would have an excellent "excuse" to extend their greedy hands towards the possessions of the House. With all consequences for the workers and tennants. McCarthyism in the USA of the 1950's was based on exactly the same sentiments (of someone not being a true US patriot and therefore a potential enemy to the state).

The grandfather of Prince Gustav started his career in the Army during the Weimar Republic and found himself transitioned into a Nazi Germany after Hitler's (democratic) victory. That he was a Rittmeister (Captain) of the Reserve of the 23. Panzer-Division of the Wehrmacht might sound impressive, but it would not have protected him or his family when the Nazis would have found an excuse to eliminate aristocrats.
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  #68  
Old 03-16-2017, 05:40 AM
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Yes, that is Nazi talk and he was a Nazi. So, all the hemming and hawing, he didn't want any 'inferior races or religions".
Loving your nation or religion doesn't always mean you hate others...

Gustav Albrecht zu Sayn-Wittgenstein-Berleburg never was a member of the Nazi party. He even bought and privatized the local Jewish cemetery in Berleburg in order to save it from being destroyed by the Nazis.
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  #69  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Prince Gustav's grandfather had plenty of time to change his will after the war, but he didn't do it, I don't buy the version that the controversial "Aryan " clause was inserted under duress.
Prince Gustav Albert was decelared MIA on the eastern front in 1944 and was only legally dead from 1969. Once a will has been made only the person who made it could change it meaning Richard could in reality do very little about it.

Can anyone explain why German estate law regarding wills is so strict? In some other countries a clause like that would be eaisly overturned as unreasonable. Doesn't it breach some anti-discrimination legalisation of some kind?
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  #70  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:31 AM
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Prince Gustav's grandfather had plenty of time to change his will after the war, but he didn't do it, I don't buy the version that the controversial "Aryan " clause was inserted under duress.

The grandfather disappeared and was declared missing in action June -44 in Belarusia. He was officially declared dead January 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav...tein-Berleburg
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  #71  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:39 AM
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The grandfather disappeared and was declared missing in action June -44 in Belarusia. He was officially declared dead January 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav...tein-Berleburg
I see. Thanks for the information.
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  #72  
Old 03-16-2017, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by WreathOfLaurels View Post
Prince Gustav Albert was decelared MIA on the eastern front in 1944 and was only legally dead from 1969. Once a will has been made only the person who made it could change it meaning Richard could in reality do very little about it.

Can anyone explain why German estate law regarding wills is so strict? In some other countries a clause like that would be eaisly overturned as unreasonable. Doesn't it breach some anti-discrimination legalisation of some kind?
The Will does not bar Prince Gustav to marry Ms Carina Axelsson, they can go to the municipal registrar right now. So they are not infringed in any right at all.

Carina is not Standesgem, a requirement set by the deceased. The question pops up whether it is unlawful when a deceased owner of a fortune has set a condition that the benefactors of his Will must contract a marriage which is in line with the longstanding tradition of his House?

What would we say when Prince Gustav is still unmarried but a younger brother had married indeed, with a lady meeting every requirement as set down by his grandfather in his Will? The deceased has left an imposing castle, a gigantic estate (the prince is one of Germany's largest private landowners) and a vast portfolio with real estate and investments. You can see why a younger brother would have challenged Gustav, like also his cousins from the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein branch can do. It is not exactly about a fancy title, it is about real wealth, then we know enough...
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  #73  
Old 03-16-2017, 12:37 PM
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"His Highness Prince Richard's funeral
His Highness Prince Richard interred Tuesday, March 21 at. 14.00 from Evangelische Stadtkirche Bad Berleburg, Germany."
Hans Hjhed Prins Richards bisttelse | Kongehuset

We'll see who of the DRF attends, so far in the calendar on the 21st, Mary and Joachim have events listed
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  #74  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:04 PM
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An interesting documentary about the Family from a few years ago
https://vimeo.com/87259683?ref=fb-share&1
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  #75  
Old 03-16-2017, 04:40 PM
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Sorry, but all the magazines here in DK keeps writing that Prince Gustav now has inherited the Berleburg Estate. But wasn't it his (Prince Gustav) from birth? IIRC then Prince Richard's father did the will so it wasn't Prince Richard who inherited the estate, but the first male grand child i.e. Prince Gustav.
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  #76  
Old 03-16-2017, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The Will does not bar Prince Gustav to marry Ms Carina Axelsson, they can go to the municipal registrar right now. So they are not infringed in any right at all.

Carina is not Standesgem, a requirement set by the deceased. The question pops up whether it is unlawful when a deceased owner of a fortune has set a condition that the benefactors of his Will must contract a marriage which is in line with the longstanding tradition of his House?

What would we say when Prince Gustav is still unmarried but a younger brother had married indeed, with a lady meeting every requirement as set down by his grandfather in his Will? The deceased has left an imposing castle, a gigantic estate (the prince is one of Germany's largest private landowners) and a vast portfolio with real estate and investments. You can see why a younger brother would have challenged Gustav, like also his cousins from the Sayn-Wittgenstein-Hohenstein branch can do. It is not exactly about a fancy title, it is about real wealth, then we know enough...
I was talking about the aryan clause not the equal birth one, given that the concept of Aryanism it's basically pseudoscience. I was raising the point that the marriage clauses in a lot of these wills are often based on shaky logic by today's standards and that in some cases unreasonable clauses can be overridden with out necessary invalidating the entire will - meaning the estates would not be split up under current inherentance law; or that they might be overriddedn by certain elements of EU human rights law or German constitutional law which would take precedent over the will - the fact the will was made under the nazi's must count for something under German law as there is often a lot of clauses over the nullity of certain things done under 'criminal regimes' i.e. The nazi's and East German communists.
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  #77  
Old 03-16-2017, 06:56 PM
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I thought the swedish King and Queen would attend Prince Richard's funeral but they are both busy on Tuesday. The swedish RF is close to the Berleburgs so i would be quite surprised if no one attends.
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  #78  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:59 PM
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Thanks for the Documentary of the whole Family. Father and Son were close to-gether.
Now I may understand that Prince Richard did not like the Royal Danish Protocole.
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  #79  
Old 03-16-2017, 07:59 PM
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I thought the swedish King and Queen would attend Prince Richard's funeral but they are both busy on Tuesday. The swedish RF is close to the Berleburgs so i would be quite surprised if no one attends.
to be fair, it was only just announced. We'll see as the week goes on if they reschedule or if someone will be announced to attend.
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  #80  
Old 03-16-2017, 08:42 PM
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**θανε ο πρίγκιπας Ρίτσαρντ, σύζυγος της πριγκίπισσας Βενεδίκτη της Δανίας ‹ The Royal Chronicles

Royal Chronicals article on Prince Richard's death
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