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  #101  
Old 01-07-2006, 02:09 PM
michelle's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
I do agree with you to a certain point. They shouldn't have treated her the way they did. Also the end of her first marriage was not in good taste. I don't think the world neede to see those pics. BUt again I have to say that things were handled badly. Rainier, wanting to protect his child, completely over reacted and closed of all information. To a normal journalist he was sending the signal: there is sth to find. He is hiding sth. So that's how rumours started. If he would have published medical reports, he could have saved his family a lot of problems. I know, the Grimaldis are pretty hot blooded and very protective of their own, but this often stands in their way of doing the right thing and thus causing more damage insead of preventing it. They often remind me of the sorcerers apprentice, not being able to handle what they started.
I complety agree with you. But it doesn't take away some responsibility from the press.
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  #102  
Old 01-07-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
I just have the magazine itself (can't remember the name of it for the moment) and I don't have a scanner. Maybe I can find it on the internet.
The article was all about how lonely he was in his huge palace. It was really a single advertisement, "single wealthy nobleman seeks a woman, with marriage in mind." There was even a comment from his friends saying how wonderful he is (like we don't already know it). It was really funny. They probably figured that all the women in the world had seen his bedroom anyway so that was nothing private. No, that was bad of me to say. Not all of them have seen it. Maybe just 50%.
I know I'm bad, sorry!! I love you dearly, despite everything, my love.
Donna, Tisk, tisk, tisk. You are such a devil-albeit funny.
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  #103  
Old 01-07-2006, 05:51 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michelle
I complety agree with you. But it doesn't take away some responsibility from the press.
Of course it doesn't take responsibility from the press, but I think that one can not always blame everything on the press and shout wolf all the time. i think it is about time that everyone takes responsibility for their share in the matter.

And I also do not agree that Stephanies way of living is a sole result of being hounded by the press and her mums early death. She is almost 41 years old, the accident happened more then 20 years ago, that is a lot of water under the bridge. I am certain she was traumatized by what happened and the rumours after. But don't forget that she also comes from a very privilidged family and could have gotten and afforded all the help she would have needed. There are people in this world who experience far worse then that every single day of their lives and manage to deal with it and go on. I think that a few things need to be put into back into perspective. It is very easy to victimise yourself and use certain events as an excuse.

I don't know whether Steph personally did that, but a lot of people here did that and still do. Steph lived her live and took certain decisions for whatever were the reasons. She might have suffered for a while from survivour syndrom, but that alone does not explain the frequent changes in her affective life. you have to dig a lot deaper than that to find what really bothers her. I think at some point there might have been a lack of self esteem for a while (normal when you are in your teens) that might have triggered her survivour syndrom, but I think that also the fact that Rainier did not like to discuss unpleasant things have a lot to do with it.

If you have seen all of the 3 in life interviews where they are being questioned about things that they feel uncomfortable with, you can see their faces twitching nervously (PAs face tends to be all over the place so it is very difficult to watch him without feelin uncomfortable yourself). I have read that this is a sign for very authoritative upbringing and children being forced to suppress feelings. Most families have secrects they don't talk about, but everyone senses sth. So since they don't speak about it, they react in a different way - psychologically. It might be sth totally insignificant, but it can gain significance by covering it up for years and years. The Grimaldis always painted the 50s Happy family picture (because it sold well and brought people to Monaco, it was a real marketing campaign if you look at allthe old homestories in pics and film), whereas everyone knows, real life is not like that and the happiest of marriages has its fights. And not every brother and sister get on great all the time. Unfortunately this was the image that Rainier had chosen for his family and they had to live by this in front of the world all the time. Sure you get used to it, but that doesn't stop you from feeling frustrated and hurt. And I think if you are looking for explanations for why Stephs relations don't last and why PA doesn't marry, you might find more there then in blaming the press or the hyper idealization of PG.
  #104  
Old 01-07-2006, 05:52 PM
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Here a link to reporters without borders reaction to the verdict
http://www.rsf.org/article.php3?id_article=16109
  #105  
Old 01-07-2006, 05:53 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
I forgot to say that this is how he met his darling Gretchen Haagendaz. She replied to the ad and it was love at first sight.
Keep them coming
  #106  
Old 01-07-2006, 06:39 PM
sebastian's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
Of course it doesn't take responsibility from the press, but I think that one can not always blame everything on the press and shout wolf all the time. i think it is about time that everyone takes responsibility for their share in the matter.

And I also do not agree that Stephanies way of living is a sole result of being hounded by the press and her mums early death. She is almost 41 years old, the accident happened more then 20 years ago, that is a lot of water under the bridge. I am certain she was traumatized by what happened and the rumours after. But don't forget that she also comes from a very privilidged family and could have gotten and afforded all the help she would have needed. There are people in this world who experience far worse then that every single day of their lives and manage to deal with it and go on. I think that a few things need to be put into back into perspective. It is very easy to victimise yourself and use certain events as an excuse.

I don't know whether Steph personally did that, but a lot of people here did that and still do. Steph lived her live and took certain decisions for whatever were the reasons. She might have suffered for a while from survivour syndrom, but that alone does not explain the frequent changes in her affective life. you have to dig a lot deaper than that to find what really bothers her. I think at some point there might have been a lack of self esteem for a while (normal when you are in your teens) that might have triggered her survivour syndrom, but I think that also the fact that Rainier did not like to discuss unpleasant things have a lot to do with it.

If you have seen all of the 3 in life interviews where they are being questioned about things that they feel uncomfortable with, you can see their faces twitching nervously (PAs face tends to be all over the place so it is very difficult to watch him without feelin uncomfortable yourself). I have read that this is a sign for very authoritative upbringing and children being forced to suppress feelings. Most families have secrects they don't talk about, but everyone senses sth. So since they don't speak about it, they react in a different way - psychologically. It might be sth totally insignificant, but it can gain significance by covering it up for years and years. The Grimaldis always painted the 50s Happy family picture (because it sold well and brought people to Monaco, it was a real marketing campaign if you look at allthe old homestories in pics and film), whereas everyone knows, real life is not like that and the happiest of marriages has its fights. And not every brother and sister get on great all the time. Unfortunately this was the image that Rainier had chosen for his family and they had to live by this in front of the world all the time. Sure you get used to it, but that doesn't stop you from feeling frustrated and hurt. And I think if you are looking for explanations for why Stephs relations don't last and why PA doesn't marry, you might find more there then in blaming the press or the hyper idealization of PG.
I cam only say you said everything here. My sister didn't want to blame the press. Steph herself doesn't blame the press for whatever happens in her life. She doesn't blame it on the loss of her mom neither. It's just the public again who tries to paint some image of a confused Stephanie. She made her decisons, some right, some false, with a wake concious. You've said it, she's almost 41. She knows what to do, at least as much as everyone else - we all have our troubles - all of us...
  #107  
Old 01-07-2006, 08:08 PM
Serene Highness
 
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I perfectly understand that Michelle does not hold the press responsible for anything that Steph does. Unfortunetly a lot of people do. Of course it has its share, but there are so many influences and so many things in life that make us take the decisions we do and people are much more complex (and thus much more interesting) then what is usually written in the press and talked on the street, to explain why she does what she does. And I think it is a shame to use these stereotypes for more then 20 years and rewrite them everytime sth happens in her life. Some of it might have been true at a time, but people change and move on and make new experiences that influence their actions and I would like to see that people get more aware of what changed, because to reduce someone to a stereotype is not only violating their personality, but also makes you miss out on all the other facets of that person and instead of a sparkling diamond you end up with a cheap fake.
  #108  
Old 01-08-2006, 06:42 AM
Aristocracy
 
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You are all so wise.

Different magazines handle their stories differently. Hello magazine makes everyone look so beautiful and be so magnificent, where as Bunte makes their subjects greedy or malignant. The image probably reflects the personality of the editor of the magazine.

You keep discussing Stephanie here on this thread. Don't you have any news on our beloved prince? Wasn't there a New Years Eve ball or something? What else is on around this time?
  #109  
Old 01-08-2006, 10:38 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Sorry, Donna. We got side tracked. At present nothing special is going on NYeve is't very spectacular here. We don't even have official fireworks, though we seem to have them all the time year round, especially in summer when you really get sick of the Bagdad at war noises almost every day. Next thing is the circus festival. If there is any news before, i'll let you know. But at present it is just daily routine here.
  #110  
Old 01-08-2006, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
I think that he has been brought up to be a public person so he thinks that he will have to be open to the media. He doesn't mind being open on most issues but when it comes to difficult ones he wants to hide.

Forgive me for editing your post, Donna -- and I agree, paca has missed her calling as a press agent. (If I'm ever in trouble, paca, I'm calling you. )

I do agree with your statement, paca, that PA did want this to come out at some point although he probably thought that since he was supporting NC and the child, he would be able to be more in control. With the advent of the electronic media and the proliferation of the paparazzi, it still amazes me how he managed to keep their affair so relatively quiet for so long considering the amount of photos that surfaced after the story broke last spring. In this way he reminds me so much of JFK and how the press knew about the affairs (particularly the one with Mary Meyer), but still kept it out of the public probably in deference to Jackie or fear of other retribution.

Whether PA's secret was kept out of the public in deference to his father, or from some previously made arrangement, I don't know. But I'm starting to wonder if PM and the other magazines were aware of this open secret long before last May. This doesn't condone PA shooting the messenger. But from what I remember of the PM articles, NC, at the urging of family and friends, went to PM in order to break a story which they may or may not have already known partly about or at least suspected. PM, took her phone calls, even if placed through her attorney, so the editors must have given some credence to her claims b/c they were aware of the relationship. If I were NC, I'd be more frightened that PA's wrath would come down on me rather than the magazines and jeopordize previously made arrangements as breach of contract/promise unless she was aware of this arrangement with the press. Granted, PA would never do anything to hurt the child, but she ran the risk of having any and all funds put into a strongly controlled trust and losing a few of the perks she now enjoys. I may be giving NC credit for being brighter that she is, but I also feel that she received some very shrewd legal advice before making her announcement.

Perhaps I'm just naive, but if I wanted to curry favor with someone in PA's position, I think I'd be much better served if I kept my mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Loyalty could probably serve you so much better.
  #111  
Old 01-09-2006, 07:28 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Paca,
Have they voted on Parc princess Antoinette yet?
  #112  
Old 01-09-2006, 07:48 AM
Aristocracy
 
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The article I was talking about is in Das Neue Blatt, November 30, 2005, and the headline is "Fürst Albert – Einsamer Adeliger, ledig, reich, 47 Jahre, sucht ... "
I'll scan the picture of his bedroom for the unfortunate women to see, if I get a chance.

The breakfast picture is also revealing. He has Chamomille tea for breakfast, water in a crystal glass, caviar and something gushy in a bowl, which he eats with chopsticks. Maybe he is trying to cut down on food and uses therefore chopsticks.
  #113  
Old 01-09-2006, 07:59 AM
Tinika's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AquaMarine
Happy New Year 2006!!!

Well, yesterday by TV I heard the horoscope forecast 2006 for all signs of zodiac including Pisces. The astrologer said that this year will be very good for Pisces in respect of marriage, very well-thought (!) marriage. But if this year they will refuse to do that, most likely, they will marry NEVER! This year will be the gold time for Pisces in all aspects, but especially they will get a good chance to find true love :)
I'm a Pisces (March 20), so I hope this is true!
  #114  
Old 01-09-2006, 08:17 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
Paca,
Have they voted on Parc princess Antoinette yet?
Yes, they voted for it (4 against). To calm us all, they have now given us a few sheap, goats and rabbits. There is an article in todays paper about it, where the mayor actually says the creche is built underneath the park, though they have a problem, because of a few thousand year old olive trees, that they need to preserve. It is all a bit confusing, so I guess I will be writing to the mayor and ask whether they could maybe explain a bit more what they are going to it. I know that the pastors have bought area right next to it and are still hoping to get their teeth into the parc (for those who are not so familiar with Monaco - the Pastors are the most powerful family in MC, more powerful then PA) Oh, the school children from next door have now their own little garden. Very small and tiny, but at least it is sth.

Funny though, just after PA took over i talked to one of his friends and since my kids were with me we talked a lot aout opportunities for kids in MC. I complained about the handling of the waiting list for the schools in MC (which was shortly after that changed), we talked about a project I had started with a friend in Beausoleil for the school children (which is now imitated in the parc princess antoinette) and regretted that we couldn't have animals there and that most children grow up in appartments and are either not allowed to have pets or the app. was too small and how it would be nice to have a place, where those children could go and learn taking responsibilty for a living creature ( also new in the parc now, the kids can help feed the animals under supervision) all in view of what kind of adults tthey could grow up to be if acquainted with it in early life. Another thing I complained about was the problem of getting around with a pram and that I was glad that children will eventually learn to walk, whereas people in wheelchairs would have to live with those problems for the rest of their lifes and how frustrating it must be for them to live in MC. They have now decide to change that and they are now employing someone to take care that in the future handicaped people will have an easier life in MC (and young mothers will benefit from this too ). Makes me wonder whether this is coincidence or whether they have been waiting to do this all along. Anyway, I am glad that sth is changed for the better now.
  #115  
Old 01-09-2006, 08:37 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Of course it is not a coincidence. You are brilliant. You will become mayor before you know it. The first woman probably.

The whole plan sounds good and the animals will be a good addition to Monaco. Paper maché cows all over town once a year will not do for the children. Won't they have cows in the park? You have to have a cow!! How are the children supposed to know where the milk comes from if they have never seen a cow? Ask the mayor, please! We have a farm animal park in the middle of the capital (with three cows and a bull and calves regularly, before they are eaten). The mayor can always ask us how we do it.

Why do the Pastors have such power?
  #116  
Old 01-09-2006, 09:32 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
Of course it is not a coincidence. You are brilliant. You will become mayor before you know it. The first woman probably.

The whole plan sounds good and the animals will be a good addition to Monaco. Paper maché cows all over town once a year will not do for the children. Won't they have cows in the park? You have to have a cow!! How are the children supposed to know where the milk comes from if they have never seen a cow? Ask the mayor, please! We have a farm animal park in the middle of the capital (with three cows and a bull and calves regularly, before they are eaten). The mayor can always ask us how we do it.

Why do the Pastors have such power?
well, I don't know about brilliant. I'd just call it observant. As to female mayor, the one before was Anne-Marie Campora, a member of another powerful family, though these last few years you don't hear much of them anymore.

Unfortunetely I couldn't be employed or elected by neither the French nor by the monegasque government, since I don't have the respective nationality. I would have to marry PA in order to have a say in MC and that is not a likely option (wrong coulour of skin though my star sign is supposed to get on great with pisces ).

As to the cow, I'd love to see cows and te children watch the milking and have a few pigs too, but there is not a lot of space, and I guess since they are only just starting, they want to see how people are adapting to the animals too. They were talking about some donkeys too. There used to be some in Fontveille, but then they got terribly neglected and they got rid of them, even though Rainier had wished for them to be there. Now the new creche of the red cross has been built on the premisses and a huge appartmentbuilding is being constructed at the old site of the creche, which incidentally has a view to the port and thus is very desirable for realestate. You are right about children needing to see where things come from. That's why once a year I take my kids skiing ad we rent an app. opposite the cow stables. the kids love to feed the pigs and the sheep there too and follow the farmer around whenever they can. One of the farmers ther is slightly retarded, but extremely patient with the kids and explains things very simple to them when he does the milking etc. and the kids just love him ad thus not only learn to respect animals but also to respect handicaped people. ANother dream of mine is to see a place here were handicaped and normal children are being educated together (similar to what Aktion Sonnenschein practises in Germany) and learn to appreciate each other and also a place where retired people would do things with small kids, since most of the kids here don't have their grandparents living near by and it helps keeping te old integrated and feeling useful ad the young to respect the elderly and learn from them.

As to the pastors: they are THE realestate and building family. Michel is presidentof the AS Monaco, I think he just gave up his post as president to the grimaldi Forum and he is basically involved in anything that has sth to do with making money. Another Pastor was the doctor of Rainier and is also pres. of the admin of the hospital. In Monaco nothing happens without some Pastor having their hands in it. To them the Prince is just a formality and someone they need to make more money (in fact I think Michel alone is richer then the prince) and keep MC attractive to tourists. If that wouldn't be the case, they might get rid of him. (BTW Carolines 2nd husband posed quite a danger to them by his business activities ad future plans for MC, which after his death did not get realized). The Pastors are also the reason why suddenly PA is again in favor of enlarging MC again. When he just ascended he said in an interview that he didn't want Fontvielle 2 and that one has to think about how many more people MC can take, seeing that it takes you at certain times of day longer to get anywhere by car then to walk.

Just recently there was an article about how and where they are going to enlarge MC.
  #117  
Old 01-09-2006, 09:48 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinklady1991
Forgive me for editing your post, Donna -- and I agree, paca has missed her calling as a press agent. (If I'm ever in trouble, paca, I'm calling you. )
Well, you know where to find me

Quote:
I do agree with your statement, paca, that PA did want this to come out at some point although he probably thought that since he was supporting NC and the child, he would be able to be more in control. With the advent of the electronic media and the proliferation of the paparazzi, it still amazes me how he managed to keep their affair so relatively quiet for so long considering the amount of photos that surfaced after the story broke last spring. In this way he reminds me so much of JFK and how the press knew about the affairs (particularly the one with Mary Meyer), but still kept it out of the public probably in deference to Jackie or fear of other retribution.
As I said before they don't write about it if it is not relevant. If JFK would have preached that people shouldn't ceat on their wifes, they would have been all over him. Also the times were different too. Nowadays people want to read this, then they would have been disgusted. reading about a presidents sexlife would have been like reading about your parents sexlife. We all know they have ad sex at some point, but please no details

Quote:
Whether PA's secret was kept out of the public in deference to his father, or from some previously made arrangement, I don't know. But I'm starting to wonder if PM and the other magazines were aware of this open secret long before last May. This doesn't condone PA shooting the messenger. But from what I remember of the PM articles, NC, at the urging of family and friends, went to PM in order to break a story which they may or may not have already known partly about or at least suspected. PM, took her phone calls, even if placed through her attorney, so the editors must have given some credence to her claims b/c they were aware of the relationship. If I were NC, I'd be more frightened that PA's wrath would come down on me rather than the magazines and jeopordize previously made arrangements as breach of contract/promise unless she was aware of this arrangement with the press. Granted, PA would never do anything to hurt the child, but she ran the risk of having any and all funds put into a strongly controlled trust and losing a few of the perks she now enjoys. I may be giving NC credit for being brighter that she is, but I also feel that she received some very shrewd legal advice before making her announcement.
I'm sure that Rainier did have sth to do with it in regards of NC herself. Who knows what he would have done. Also there was talk that it might stop PA from ascending to the throne and that wouldn't have been in her interest. The press wouldn't print anything like that (especially not PM) if they didn't have proof, a DNA test, birth certificate etc. which they couldn't get without NC. If they would have printed it before, they would have gotten sued for liabel and they would have lost credibility. PM does not only do celebrities they also write about serious issues occasionally. And I think publishing without hard evidence would have cost them more in fees ad loss of credibilty, then they would have sold magazines. And Bunte only published because they knew that PM was going to publish (they often buy whole articles/interviews of them). They might have put NC under a bit of pressure and with PA not personally taking her calls and the 2 year period running out, se might have just thought (with legal advisors of course) that this would be the best time to do it.

Quote:
Perhaps I'm just naive, but if I wanted to curry favor with someone in PA's position, I think I'd be much better served if I kept my mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Loyalty could probably serve you so much better.
You are probably right there, but also people around him do talk. They think it is for his best, but personally I think it is better not to talk too much, but rather listen. But then again they are only humans and for a long time it has paid off to brag about having connections with the royals.
  #118  
Old 01-09-2006, 10:35 AM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
... since I don't have the respective nationality. I would have to marry PA in order to have a say in MC and that is not a likely option (wrong coulour of skin though my star sign is supposed to get on great with pisces).
Aren't there any other single men in Monaco besides PA? Maybe they are afraid of women with brains. There have to be men in Monaco that don't only think about money and stupid sleesy women. Aren't there any nice educated professors who teach literature for instance? I would go for that type (if I can't have the love of my life). One that wears corduroys and brown shoes and thinks in stories.

What sign gets so well on with pisces? And what skin colour could possibly be wrong, given the history of our beloved?

Quote:
Originally Posted by paca
The Pastors are also the reason why suddenly PA is again in favor of enlarging MC again. When he just ascended he said in an interview that he didn't want Fontvielle 2 and that one has to think about how many more people MC can take, seeing that it takes you at certain times of day longer to get anywhere by car then to walk.

Just recently there was an article about how and where they are going to enlarge MC.
So our beloved is being manipulated!!!
  #119  
Old 01-09-2006, 05:26 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinklady1991
Forgive me for editing your post, Donna -- and I agree, paca has missed her calling as a press agent. (If I'm ever in trouble, paca, I'm calling you. )

I do agree with your statement, paca, that PA did want this to come out at some point although he probably thought that since he was supporting NC and the child, he would be able to be more in control. With the advent of the electronic media and the proliferation of the paparazzi, it still amazes me how he managed to keep their affair so relatively quiet for so long considering the amount of photos that surfaced after the story broke last spring. In this way he reminds me so much of JFK and how the press knew about the affairs (particularly the one with Mary Meyer), but still kept it out of the public probably in deference to Jackie or fear of other retribution.

Whether PA's secret was kept out of the public in deference to his father, or from some previously made arrangement, I don't know. But I'm starting to wonder if PM and the other magazines were aware of this open secret long before last May. This doesn't condone PA shooting the messenger. But from what I remember of the PM articles, NC, at the urging of family and friends, went to PM in order to break a story which they may or may not have already known partly about or at least suspected. PM, took her phone calls, even if placed through her attorney, so the editors must have given some credence to her claims b/c they were aware of the relationship. If I were NC, I'd be more frightened that PA's wrath would come down on me rather than the magazines and jeopordize previously made arrangements as breach of contract/promise unless she was aware of this arrangement with the press. Granted, PA would never do anything to hurt the child, but she ran the risk of having any and all funds put into a strongly controlled trust and losing a few of the perks she now enjoys. I may be giving NC credit for being brighter that she is, but I also feel that she received some very shrewd legal advice before making her announcement.

Perhaps I'm just naive, but if I wanted to curry favor with someone in PA's position, I think I'd be much better served if I kept my mouth shut and eyes and ears open. Loyalty could probably serve you so much better.
I read that too -- PM and the other reporters had gotten wind of the story well before publishing anything -- PM printed that they were contacted by someone close to NC (her cousins) who wanted to sell the story, along with some other tabloids. They went further to say that they took quite some time investigating it and finding out the details of the matter on their own (who is she, where's the house, is she meeting with TL, and so on) before NC contacted them with her expose.

So, the press knew she was out there (at least PM knew she was out there) and she knew about them too. She also had gotten her own lawyers, she was not just making this story to PM out of the blue on a whim -- she was advised from the start.

I agree.
  #120  
Old 01-09-2006, 06:21 PM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donna
Aren't there any other single men in Monaco besides PA? Maybe they are afraid of women with brains. There have to be men in Monaco that don't only think about money and stupid sleesy women. Aren't there any nice educated professors who teach literature for instance? I would go for that type (if I can't have the love of my life). One that wears corduroys and brown shoes and thinks in stories.
Donna, you are talking about my kind of man. I'm butter in the hand of a man that knows how to tell stories. Unfortunetely very difficult to find. I've met 2 in my life and incidentally they both had Austrian genes ( the French might have the charms, but the guys from vienna... )

Quote:
What sign gets so well on with pisces? And what skin colour could possibly be wrong, given the history of our beloved?
Fisherman, they have the hook and since he had all the colours on earth, this year his chosen colour is green skin with 3 goggle eyes


Quote:
So our beloved is being manipulated!!!
certainly he is (like father like son). In politics they call it lobbying, in absolute monarchy it's called do as you're told or we start a democracy
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