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  #141  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:43 PM
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Thanks Artemisia..So I guess the next royal receiving it will be Prince William, that too at the fag end of Charles III's reign..
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  #142  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:47 PM
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I am a little perplexed by HM wearing the RFO from George V, given she was 9 years old when he passed away, and certainly not expected to be monarch at the time. Any ideas as to when it may have been presented to her, and possibly why?
I guess for the silver Jubilee of George V in 1935 ...
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  #143  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I am a little perplexed by HM wearing the RFO from George V, given she was 9 years old when he passed away, and certainly not expected to be monarch at the time. Any ideas as to when it may have been presented to her, and possibly why?
Margaret had it as well. Lets just say George V was much more generous with his distribution of honours than his granddaughter is in her reign.
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  #144  
Old 11-28-2012, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I am a little perplexed by HM wearing the RFO from George V, given she was 9 years old when he passed away, and certainly not expected to be monarch at the time. Any ideas as to when it may have been presented to her, and possibly why?
Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret received George V's Royal Family Order in 1935, a year before the King died. It was the Silver Jubilee and so George V bestowed the honour on several females in his family. Besides, while Elizabeth was not expected to ascend to the Throne, she was still Heiress Presumptive even back then because the Prince of Wales was unmarried and childless.

Awarding young children with Family Orders was not uncommon back then; for instance, Princess Alexandra was herself just a child (12, I think?) when she received the Royal Family Order of George VI - and she was most definitely not expected to become a Monarch.

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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Thanks Artemisia..So I guess the next royal receiving it will be Prince William, that too at the fag end of Charles III's reign..
If William ever receives Order of Merit, it will definitely be during his father's reign and, most probably, after he is invested as the Prince of Wales. Then again, Prince Charles had to spent mere 50 years as the Heir Apparent to the Throne to receive the Order of Merit, so there is a good chance William never gets it.
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  #145  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Margaret had it as well. Lets just say George V was much more generous with his distribution of honours than his granddaughter is in her reign.
That's actually not true: the Queen has given more Family Orders than George V. Admittedly, her reign is longer too, but still.

There were 14 recipients of the Royal Family Order of George V:
1. Queen Mary of Teck
2. The Duchess of York (Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother)
3. Princess Elizabeth (Queen Elizabeth II)
4. Princess Margaret
5. The Duchess of Gloucester (Princess Alice)
6. The Duchess of Kent (Princess Marina)
7. Princess Mary (Countess of Harewood)
8. The Princess Royal (Duchess of Fife)
9. Princess Alexandra (Duchess of Fife)
10. Princess Victoria (the King's younger sister)
11. Princess Alexander of Teck (Princess Alice, Countess of Athlone)
12. Princess Christian of Schleswig-Holstein (Princess Helena)
13. Princess Louise (Duchess of Argyll)
14. Princess Henry of Battenberg (Princess Beatrice)


There are 16 recipients of the Royal Family Order of Queen Elizabeth (in no particular order, deceased first, followed by living members of the Order):
1. Queen Mary
2. Queen Elizabeth (The Queen Mother)
3. The Princess royal (Princess Mary, Countess of Harewood)
4. Princess Alice (Countess of Athlone)
5. Princess Alice (Duchess of Gloucester)
6. Princess Marine (Duchess of Kent)
7. Princess Margaret
8. The Princess of Wales (Diana, Princess of Wales)
9. The Duchess of Devonshire (Mary Cavendish)
10. The Princess Royal (Princess Anne)
11. The Duchess of Cornwall
12. The Countess of Wessex
13. The Duchess of Gloucester (Birgitte)
14. The Duchess of Kent (Katharine)
15. Princess Alexandra (The Honourable Lady Ogilvy)
16. The Dowager Duchess of Grafton
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  #146  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:12 PM
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Yes, but I was actually being more general in my comments about his distribution of honours amongst his family. His sons, Wales, York, Gloucester and Kent received pretty much the whole list of knighthoods available and even minor relations like the Cambridges, and Marie Louise and Helena received honours from the monarch, as did his Harewood son in law, which is not necessarily how QEII goes about it these days.

I know Wikipedia has listed the Duchess of Grafton as a recipient of the RFO but have we any photographic evidence of this. I have only seen pics of her wearing the badge of a lady in waiting/Mistress of Robes to QEII. I would ask the same question about the late Dowager Duchess of Devonshire who was also Mistress of Robes.
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  #147  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:12 PM
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Well considering the length of HM's reign, I will agree George V was much more generous with his order.
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  #148  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:13 PM
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Queen Maud was his sister right? And she was not given..Maybe women married into foreign royalty need not be included in RFO..
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  #149  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:30 PM
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No family Order for Sarah of York and Marie-Christine of Kent.
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  #150  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
Princess Elizabeth and Princess Margaret received George V's Royal Family Order in 1935, a year before the King died. It was the Silver Jubilee and so George V bestowed the honour on several females in his family. Besides, while Elizabeth was not expected to ascend to the Throne, she was still Heiress Presumptive even back then because the Prince of Wales was unmarried and childless.

Elizabeth was NOT The Heiress Presumptive during the reigns of either her grandfather or uncle.

In her grandfather's reign her uncle was The Heir Apparent.

In her uncle's reign her father was The Heiress Presumptive.

There can only be ONE Heir at a time.

She was 3rd in line during her grandfather's reign and 2nd in her uncle's but she became The Heiress Presumptive when her uncle abdicated.

She could be described as Heiress Presumptive to her father but not as Heiress Presumptive to the throne until her father became King.
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  #151  
Old 11-28-2012, 03:59 PM
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I do believe The Duke of Cambridge will receive the Order of Merit at some point. Lets not forget the he's second in-line to the throne and will be first in-line to the throne at some point. Then at some point down the line he will be Sovereign of The Order of Merit.

There's alot of Royal Orders that's coming William & Catherine and Harry's way.
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  #152  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Elizabeth was NOT The Heiress Presumptive during the reigns of either her grandfather or uncle.

In her grandfather's reign her uncle was The Heir Apparent.

In her uncle's reign her father was The Heiress Presumptive.

There can only be ONE Heir at a time.

She was 3rd in line during her grandfather's reign and 2nd in her uncle's but she became The Heiress Presumptive when her uncle abdicated.

She could be described as Heiress Presumptive to her father but not as Heiress Presumptive to the throne until her father became King.
I didn't say Princess Elizabeth was Heiress Presumptive to the Throne - but she was Heiress Presumptive to the Heir Presumptive to the Heir Apparent.
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  #153  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:08 PM
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^^^Very well stated and I concur.
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  #154  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:10 PM
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I do believe The Duke of Cambridge will receive the Order of Merit at some point. Lets not forget the he's second in-line to the throne and will be first in-line to the throne at some point. Then at some point down the line he will be Sovereign of The Order of Merit.

There's alot of Royal Orders that's coming William & Catherine and Harry's way.
If Prince William receives an Order of Merit, it will be well into his father's reign.
Prince Charles had been Heir Apparent to the Throne for 50 years before his mother finally bestowed the Order of Merit upon him (in 2002).
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  #155  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by maria-olivia View Post
No family Order for Sarah of York and Marie-Christine of Kent.
And that's bad why?
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  #156  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:20 PM
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Its difficult to determine the future by looking to the past. I agree HM has been rather 'stingy' with her orders and honours in the past but there have been some subtle signs this is changing and as Dman commented, I personally will not be surprised to see some of the 'junior' but very prominent members of the family receive public recognition from HM of their expanding roles with the firm.
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  #157  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
I didn't say Princess Elizabeth was Heiress Presumptive to the Throne - but she was Heiress Presumptive to the Heir Presumptive to the Heir Apparent.

As you didn't specify the above then the only assumption is that you meant that she was Heiress Presumptive to the throne - as the term Heir/Heiress Apparent/Presumptive is used in the context 'of to a title' unless spelt out as referring to something different and as she couldn't inherit her father's title you could only be referring to the Throne.
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  #158  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:30 PM
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We must also remember that George V, by all accounts, absolutely adored the little Princess Elizabeth of York. He certainly could see in her the stuff of which successful monarchs are made, and (correct me if I'm wrong) actually indicated that he was sorry that the throne likely would not end up in her possession, as he assumed that Edward VIII would have a legitimate heir at some point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemisia View Post
If Prince William receives an Order of Merit, it will be well into his father's reign.
Prince Charles had been Heir Apparent to the Throne for 50 years before his mother finally bestowed the Order of Merit upon him (in 2002).
While I agree that HM made Charles wait a long time for the OM, it doesn't necessarily follow that Charles will do as his mother did. For example, I doubt very much that a King Charles III will give his spouse the OM, unlike QEII.

Charles will know that his reign is likely to be a relatively short one, so it would make sense that William get the OM early on to ensure that the continuity is there as Charles becomes increasingly elderly. It will ensure that William knows its mechanics as well as the current members well ahead of his suddenly becoming the Sovereign of an order which has been described as 'the pinnacle of the British honours system'.
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  #159  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:46 PM
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The OM is one of those orders that I believe should only be given to a member of the royal family for actual achievement. To be given the OM simply because one is a royal kind of diminishes the order for those who actually have achieved great things in their lifetimes. As one wag famously said "Thats why I like the Garter, there is no damn merit about it".
There are enough honours available for the royal family that do not involve actual achievements.
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  #160  
Old 11-28-2012, 04:55 PM
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I think HM, after 60 years on the throne is a pretty good judge of who in her family deserves honours and who doesn't.
The Duchess of Cornwall waited 7 years for the RVO but I think the Duchess of Cambridge will get it sooner rather than later but that doesn't mean Catherine is more 'deserving', just that HM makes certain decisions at certain times and doesn't give her reasons for her honours.
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