The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #921  
Old 01-29-2017, 01:46 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spheno View Post
The Royal Victorian Order is a dynastic order of knighthood
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Victorian_Order
Not sure where I said it wasn't

RFO is royal family order. The Royal Victorian order is a completely different award.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #922  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:08 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
I think the Order of St John is not a regular Order like the Bath, the St Michael & St George, the British Empire, the Royal Victorian Order and -of course- the Thistle and the Garter.

Together with the German Johanniterorden in Deutschland, the Swedish Johanniterorden i Sverige, and the Dutch Johanniter Orde in Nederland, the British Order forms the Alliance of the Orders of St. John of Jerusalem. So it is not a British knighthood in the usual meaning, let me say.
It's definitely not a common one to be granted. Only five members have it. Well and the sovereign automatically.

Prince Richard is the grand prior of the order. He is often pictured in his robes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prin..._of_Gloucester

Anne is the dame cross of the order which is the next level down.

and then Prince Michael, Sophie and the duchess of Gloucester are grade II, a level below Anne.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #923  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:11 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The ivory discussion makes little sense. Would Catherine ban all pianos in Buckingham Palace with ivory keys? And the ivory billiard balls? Furniture with ivory inlay? Fans with ivory elements? Ivory haircombs? The Scottish bagpipers with ivory pieces? The ivory tusks used as ornaments in some rooms? Ivory buttons, bijoux, objects d'art? The ivory used for the RFO will never originate from new ivory since the absolute ban on ivory trade, but what is there, that is there.
There's been reports that William wanted to get rid of all ivory out of the palaces. He didn't get his way on that.

The family order isn't a knighthood, but a personal family order.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #924  
Old 01-29-2017, 02:36 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pinner, United Kingdom
Posts: 1,671
There are 'Politically Correct' alternatives to Ivory, now in use amongst miniaturists. One is Vellum, very long lasting [and widely used for books in the Middle ages]. and the other is Mammoth Ivory. Large quantities of this are dug up each year [in America and Russia], and being long extinct its use cannot raise the concerns that Elephant Ivory does.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #925  
Old 01-29-2017, 04:12 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Alexandria, United States
Posts: 132
Just wondering but does anyone else think that maybe it is in the Queen's will, that any of her close female relatives who have not received the order would receive at the time of her passing. I just don't think she would leave the only princesses of the blood royal in their generation, Louise, Beatrice and Eugenie, without one even if their use would be limited to potentially 3-4 times.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #926  
Old 01-29-2017, 05:16 PM
Molly2101's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: England, United Kingdom
Posts: 3,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyalHighness 2002 View Post
Just wondering but does anyone else think that maybe it is in the Queen's will, that any of her close female relatives who have not received the order would receive at the time of her passing. I just don't think she would leave the only princesses of the blood royal in their generation, Louise, Beatrice and Eugenie, without one even if their use would be limited to potentially 3-4 times.
Beatrice and Eugenie potentially already have the RFO but they have just never been seen wearing it in public as they don't attend banquets. I am sure Louise will receive it too as it's something they will all wear to their uncle Charles' coronation surely like this image Princess Marina, Princess Mary, Queen Mother and Princess Margaret. (I don't want to be morbid or wish the Queen's demise, but I am really looking forward to seeing Catherine, Sophie, Anne etc. standing like this photo.)

They must have the Diamond Jubilee medal as Louise was seen wearing it during the birthday pageant in Windsor Castle when she came in on the Queen's pony. Louise
__________________
"I am yours, you are mine, of that be sure. You are locked in my heart, the little key is lost and now you must stay there forever."
Written by Princess Alix of Hesse and by Rhine in the diary of her fiance, Tsarevich Nicholas.
Reply With Quote
  #927  
Old 03-24-2017, 10:31 AM
JessRulz's Avatar
Administrator
Blog Editor
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 7,447
Posts about the Tuvalu Order of Merit have been moved to the General News for the Cambridge Family Part 3: March 2017 thread.
__________________
**TRF Rules and FAQ**
Reply With Quote
  #928  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:01 AM
Sun Lion's Avatar
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,206
Here Dman.

I know you've posted about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and this Order - and now it's getting mentioned in the media.

Skip down a bit in this list of short items - sixth item down.

(Let's see if William gets the patronage of the London Zoological Society.)

Queen prepares to say goodbye to Lord Snowdon | Daily Mail Online
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #929  
Old 04-07-2017, 05:15 AM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 6,962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sun Lion View Post
Here Dman.

I know you've posted about the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge and this Order - and now it's getting mentioned in the media.

Skip down a bit in this list of short items - sixth item down.

(Let's see if William gets the patronage of the London Zoological Society.)

Queen prepares to say goodbye to Lord Snowdon | Daily Mail Online
Daily mail is doing as it always does, regurgitating old rumors.

I wouldn't be surprised if William got the patronage but also if he didn't. Ivory and poaching is a big cause for many royals. Charles and Camilla are heavily involved with her brother's elephant charity (not ivory but still conservation). Harry is just as involved with tusk as his brother. Heck he spent this summer volunteering in Africa with elephants and other animals.

Charles and Camilla have no issue with wearing old ivory. I honestly don't see this being the issue. I wish they would get the order or a statement made if nothing else but to end speculation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #930  
Old 04-07-2017, 08:17 AM
Nico's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 1,924
Quote:
Originally Posted by Countessmeout View Post
Daily mail is doing as it always does, regurgitating old rumors.
And wrongly with that. Male members of the BRF don't receive the RFO .
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #931  
Old 04-07-2017, 09:22 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,468
I do think the use of ivory in the family order is why Catherine don't have it.

No, William won't get the order, because it's now only made for women.

What bothers me is that Catherine has gone this long without her family order, because no one has come up with the idea of making her order out of a different material. It's silly to leave her orderless when she's attending events where the order should be worn.

Usually there's no announcement on when the royal ladies receive the order, but I think the palace should at least say something on why Catherine don't have the order.

One thing I know for sure; this wouldn't be happening in the other royal families.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #932  
Old 04-07-2017, 10:09 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,115
Other royal families give the orders out as pieces of candy.

The BRF have a different approach.

Why the Queen hasn't seen fit to give the order to Kate is something that only The Queen knows?

I doubt it has anything to do with ivory as it would be quite simple to make it from something else if that was what they wanted to do.

There has to be another reason - which is probably that The Queen doesn't feel Kate has earnt it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #933  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:03 AM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Other royal families give the orders out as pieces of candy.

The BRF have a different approach.

Why the Queen hasn't seen fit to give the order to Kate is something that only The Queen knows?

I doubt it has anything to do with ivory as it would be quite simple to make it from something else if that was what they wanted to do.

There has to be another reason - which is probably that The Queen doesn't feel Kate has earnt it.
People can say that Catherine hasn't earned her family order, but I would like to know what people think Catherine has been doing since 2011? painting the royal estates?

I don't think other royal families hand their orders out like candy. I think they fully acknowledge the royals position and work with the orders. Leave it to the British royals to leave one senior royal naked of any order when that royal is working on behalf of the royal family and Commonwealth and attending events where the orders are worn. None of it makes sense and people should have a problem with it after all this time and effort.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #934  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:11 AM
Duc_et_Pair's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City, Netherlands
Posts: 7,312
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Other royal families give the orders out as pieces of candy. [...]
The comparable medals in other royal families were more a memento than an official decoration. This sort of medals used to be a practice at almost all Courts but Sweden is one of the last still maintaining this tradition.

The practice in Sweden is not really comparable with the United Kingdom, as any lady who is part of the Swedish King's family simply receives such a memento at the very moment they enter his family.

An example of a memento: this was worn by Mary Stuart, Princess Royal (1631-1660). It shows her spouse Willem II of Orange-Nassau, wearing the Order of the Garter: picture. Made in 1647 by Jean Petitot.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #935  
Old 04-07-2017, 11:47 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 11,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
People can say that Catherine hasn't earned her family order, but I would like to know what people think Catherine has been doing since 2011? painting the royal estates?

I don't think other royal families hand their orders out like candy. I think they fully acknowledge the royals position and work with the orders. Leave it to the British royals to leave one senior royal naked of any order when that royal is working on behalf of the royal family and Commonwealth and attending events where the orders are worn. None of it makes sense and people should have a problem with it after all this time and effort.
I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I trust that Her Majesty knows what she is doing and why she is or isn't giving out orders to people.

HM knows way more than we do about what is actually happening and obviously she doesn't thing Kate has done enough based on what she is seeing and knowing about what Kate is actually doing.

The Queen knows Kate - we don't and I would prefer to defer to HM's knowledge of what she demands from a woman in the BRF to earn the Royal Family Order than people on forums or in the press.

So Kate looks unadorned on those rare occasions she attends State occasions (3 - 4 times so far in her married life - the Diplomatic Receptions where photos are rare and one State dinner which she and William attended largely because Charles and Camilla were out of the country and so had to stand in for the heir apparent).
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #936  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:34 PM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with her not having an order at all.

I trust that Her Majesty knows what she is doing and why she is or isn't giving out orders to people.

HM knows way more than we do about what is actually happening and obviously she doesn't thing Kate has done enough based on what she is seeing and knowing about what Kate is actually doing.

The Queen knows Kate - we don't and I would prefer to defer to HM's knowledge of what she demands from a woman in the BRF to earn the Royal Family Order than people on forums or in the press.

So Kate looks unadorned on those rare occasions she attends State occasions (3 - 4 times so far in her married life - the Diplomatic Receptions where photos are rare and one State dinner which she and William attended largely because Charles and Camilla were out of the country and so had to stand in for the heir apparent).
I completely agree with you, the Queen must have good reason for not giving Catherine the RFO. I just don't think it has anything to do with ivory. That said, I so think Catherine will receive it soon, once they have gone full time.

I also don't think it is a big deal that Catherine is appearing at white tie events without an order. Camilla had to wait 7 years for her RVO, and she is the next Queen of the land.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #937  
Old 04-07-2017, 12:48 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,468
I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.
__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
  #938  
Old 04-07-2017, 01:14 PM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 7,075
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I think one have to question The Queen's judgement on giving Orders. The late Princess of Wales worked very hard on behalf of the Monarchy and Commonwealth for sixteen years and never received a knighthood from her. This would have never happened under George V and her father.

Also, one can't say Catherine haven't done enough since 2011. The woman is about to embark on her second solo visit to a foreign country next month. The problem is The Queen have a problem giving her family a pat on the back for working on her behalf. Allowing Catherine to attend State Visits and The Diplomatic Corps Reception even without the family order is pretty careless and very inconsiderate.

I love the Queen but I think she's a bit off on this issue.
I do not believe that all the facts are in the public domain. I am quite content to leave it to the judgement of my monarch to decide who she awards with a "pat on the back" or not.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #939  
Old 04-07-2017, 01:19 PM
Nice Nofret's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Zürich, Switzerland
Posts: 541
Dman - it is up to the Queen and oly to the Queen - you seem to take it personaly, that your beloved Diana didn't recieve the Order. The Queen soon saw that Diana was troubled - to put it kindly - and saw that she wasn't fitting in her position. No other Princesse of Wales befor her was ever so badly suited and unwilling for her Position - The only other royal who comes to my mind is Elisabeth in Bayern, Imperatrice of Austria.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #940  
Old 04-07-2017, 01:43 PM
Dman's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 13,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
Dman - it is up to the Queen and oly to the Queen - you seem to take it personaly, that your beloved Diana didn't recieve the Order. The Queen soon saw that Diana was troubled - to put it kindly - and saw that she wasn't fitting in her position. No other Princesse of Wales befor her was ever so badly suited and unwilling for her Position - The only other royal who comes to my mind is Elisabeth in Bayern, Imperatrice of Austria.
It's not about loving Diana. She had many fans. It's about the work the Princess of Wales was doing during those sixteen years on The Queen's behalf, the U.K. and Commonwealth. She should've received a knighthood for her role.

Doesn't matter about ones private life. The work and efforts of the senior royal should be acknowledged officially with an order.

The only thing that could be keeping Catherine from receiving the family order must be the use of ivory, because Catherine has done plenty of duties and official tours to receive the family order. No one can say she hasn't done anything since 2011. She's a great support to William and the royal family. When The Queen asks her to represent her on the world stage, Catherine do her job.

It is nice of The Queen to approve Catherine's nomination to get the Tuvalu Order of Merit though. Now, I'm looking to that as a sign that Her Majesty will acknowledge Catherine with a British honor soon. Just hoping she'll get an official pat on the back from her.
__________________

__________________
"WE CANNOT PRAY IN LOVE AND LIVE IN HATE AND STILL THINK WE ARE WORSHIPING GOD."

A.W. TOZER
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
orders and decorations, protocol, royal family order


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Popular Tags
albania birthday carl gustaf chris o'neill crown princess mary crown princess victoria current events denmark duchess of cambridge style duchess of york earl of snowdon family general news hereditary grand duchess stéphanie hereditary grand duke guillaume infanta cristina infanta leonor infanta sofia ińaki urdangarín king carl gustaf king felipe king felipe vi king philippe king willem-alexander letizia liechtenstein monarchy news prince alexander prince carl philip prince daniel prince felix prince gabriel prince harry prince nicholas prince of wales prince oscar princess beatrice princess claire princess claire of luxembourg princess diana lady spencer princess estelle princess leonore princess madeleine princess margriet princess mary daytime fashion princess mary hats princess of asturias princess sibilla princess sofia princess sofias hats princess victoria queen elizabeth ii queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen mathilde queen maxima queen silvia rohans sofia state visit state visit from argentina stephanie sweden swedish royal family the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge hats victoria



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017
Jelsoft Enterprises