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  #61  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:33 PM
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I think the issue is that William's current active role in the family is ambiguous.

We all accepted that when he was working in Anglesey that he was not a f/t royal and that was fine. He was 2nd in line and not expected to "step up".

What seemed to change that was the St Pauls Jubilee ceremony, followed by the limited # of royals on the balcony afterwards. The media emphasised that these were the senior royals and we believed it. This was the start ofexpecting more.

Senior royal does not mean full time and we have the evidence to show that. William and Catherine are not full time royals and are not expected to be full time by HMQ and the PoW. They are still doing royals duties and I wasexpecting themboth to do c.100 each this yr. Thats blown because of Catherine's illness but the intention was there, IMO.

He is now studying and that will include practicals so maybe this wk he's in East Anglia, hence Catherine being with her mother.

They are part time nd will be part time until HMQ dies or becomes incapacitated. They are not theequivalent of Mary and Fred or Victoria and Daniel. And although Id like toseemore of them, they are working towards serving in a practical way.

Hope they both make the welcome, but William can handle it on his own. We'll co tinue to see them on a limited basis.
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  #62  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:38 PM
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Nicely summed up, Cepe.
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  #63  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:40 PM
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The same for Prince Harry. He attended the St Pauls Jubilee ceremony and was on the balcony as one the "senior seven" but the boards don't mention he should be a full-time royal. The obsession is on William.
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  #64  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jacknch View Post
I think if Charles and Camilla are unable to attend an event, it makes sense for William and Catherine to attend in their place, rather than anyone else - sort of like deputising.
I can think of no reason at all why William wouldn't actually want to attend a State Banquet - a lovely nice dinner and wine, dressing up and meeting new people - I'd love it!

I don't think William does enjoy doing that sort of thing at all. He always seems uncomfortable whenever he is dressed in anything other than jeans.

Kate also seems totally uncomfortable when dressed formally.

I also don't think either of them really enjoy meeting new people and being 'on show' at all. They prefer a totally private life and seem to want to virtually disappear from public life but are unable to do so.

I suspect that in William's reign there will be less of the out and about signs of royalty and more of the return to the out of sight monarchy of Victoria's days - not totally but I just don't see them really embracing the public side of monarchy and will do as little as possible. Remember that a lot of the public side of monarchy is barely a century old as it was introduced in large measure by Edward VII to bring some glitz and glamour to the monarchy after his mother's 40 years of mourning.
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  #65  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudolph View Post
The same for Prince Harry. He attended the St Pauls Jubilee ceremony and was on the balcony as one the "senior seven" but the boards don't mention he should be a full-time royal. The obsession is on William.
Harry though is a full-time army officer, the spare and increasingly going to be irrelevant. He is soon to move down to 5th in line - where Beatrice was before George was born. Harry has never been as high in the line as Andrew was at birth and we see how irrelevant Andrew is now and Harry will be the same - a loved son, brother and uncle of course but in the big scheme of things the focus will of course be on William and in time George rather than Harry.
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  #66  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:54 PM
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I know all about Harry and his full-time army office job, we should be so lucky and to call Andrew or any othe Queen's children irrelevant doesn't make sense to me. The family would have to fold up if not for the supporting cast.

Harry is one of only two princes of his generation. He will be the second son of a King and the only brother of a King.
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  #67  
Old 10-11-2014, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I don't think William does enjoy doing that sort of thing at all. He always seems uncomfortable whenever he is dressed in anything other than jeans.

Kate also seems totally uncomfortable when dressed formally.

I also don't think either of them really enjoy meeting new people and being 'on show' at all. They prefer a totally private life and seem to want to virtually disappear from public life but are unable to do so.

I suspect that in William's reign there will be less of the out and about signs of royalty and more of the return to the out of sight monarchy of Victoria's days - not totally but I just don't see them really embracing the public side of monarchy and will do as little as possible. Remember that a lot of the public side of monarchy is barely a century old as it was introduced in large measure by Edward VII to bring some glitz and glamour to the monarchy after his mother's 40 years of mourning.
As much as we like to dance around the subject, I too think he and Catherine are uncomfortable in very formal settings. If Catherine is unwell, then I can understand them not attending the State Banquet. If Catherine is better and able to go, then I think they should be going and not avoiding the event.

I just think it's a shame that year after year they manage to avoid going to events like this. It would be nice to know if Catherine has received her Royal Family Order. I bet next year there will be another no show for them at this event too. I just hope they will start going and accept that State Events are part of the job.
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  #68  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I don't think William does enjoy doing that sort of thing at all. He always seems uncomfortable whenever he is dressed in anything other than jeans.

Kate also seems totally uncomfortable when dressed formally.

I also don't think either of them really enjoy meeting new people and being 'on show' at all. They prefer a totally private life and seem to want to virtually disappear from public life but are unable to do so.

I suspect that in William's reign there will be less of the out and about signs of royalty and more of the return to the out of sight monarchy of Victoria's days - not totally but I just don't see them really embracing the public side of monarchy and will do as little as possible. Remember that a lot of the public side of monarchy is barely a century old as it was introduced in large measure by Edward VII to bring some glitz and glamour to the monarchy after his mother's 40 years of mourning.
Like everyone else, William will be just fine when the time comes. Both George V and George VI were terrified at prospect of becoming King and the public side of the role and yet did what they had to do.
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  #69  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:10 PM
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I agree that William is probably not comfortable in formal settings.

I also think that William was not invited to the State Dinner because of Catherine's pregnancy. The Queen did not want a pregnant (unwell) Catherine at a State Dinner and William did not have a companion to escort to the dinner.
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  #70  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:16 PM
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Maybe we should start a thread on what exactly the Queen is and isn't in charge of because obviously William is the puppet master and the real power behind the throne and calls the shots.
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  #71  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cepe View Post
I think the issue is that William's current active role in the family is ambiguous.

We all accepted that when he was working in Anglesey that he was not a f/t royal and that was fine. He was 2nd in line and not expected to "step up".

What seemed to change that was the St Pauls Jubilee ceremony, followed by the limited # of royals on the balcony afterwards. The media emphasised that these were the senior royals and we believed it. This was the start ofexpecting more.

Senior royal does not mean full time and we have the evidence to show that. William and Catherine are not full time royals and are not expected to be full time by HMQ and the PoW. They are still doing royals duties and I wasexpecting themboth to do c.100 each this yr. Thats blown because of Catherine's illness but the intention was there, IMO.

He is now studying and that will include practicals so maybe this wk he's in East Anglia, hence Catherine being with her mother.

They are part time nd will be part time until HMQ dies or becomes incapacitated. They are not theequivalent of Mary and Fred or Victoria and Daniel. And although Id like toseemore of them, they are working towards serving in a practical way.

Hope they both make the welcome, but William can handle it on his own. We'll co tinue to see them on a limited basis.
Well explained, cepe.
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  #72  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Queen Camilla View Post
I agree that William is probably not comfortable in formal settings.

I also think that William was not invited to the State Dinner because of Catherine's pregnancy. The Queen did not want a pregnant (unwell) Catherine at a State Dinner and William did not have a companion to escort to the dinner.
I think everyone understands Catherine's condition and hopefully she's well enough to even attend the welcoming ceremony. I think she's very disappointed that she had to miss out on her previous official engagements. She seems very happy to fulfill them. I just hope they won't skip the next State Visit next year. I mean, year after year on not attending these events is crazy, IMO.
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  #73  
Old 10-11-2014, 09:24 PM
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Well explained, cepe.
Yes I agree.
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  #74  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
As much as we like to dance around the subject, I too think he and Catherine are uncomfortable in very formal settings. If Catherine is unwell, then I can understand them not attending the State Banquet. If Catherine is better and able to go, then I think they should be going and not avoiding the event.

I just think it's a shame that year after year they manage to avoid going to events like this. It would be nice to know if Catherine has received her Royal Family Order. I bet next year there will be another no show for them at this event too. I just hope they will start going and accept that State Events are part of the job.
In order to avoid these events, they'd have to have been invited. Do we actually know of any instance where they've been invited but declined to attend? I don't think they can pick and choose what they want to do or not do when it comes to something like this. If the Queen invites, they go.
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  #75  
Old 10-11-2014, 11:59 PM
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I don't think William and Kate have a problem with formal dinners or making small talk. They been to several formal dinners (not Tiara ones but tux and gown). Plus making small talk is what they do at every engagement they do. They don't have a problem talking to strangers. They both excel on walkabouts meeting the crowds.

The State Diplomatic Reception that they went to last year is far more the protocol minefield than a state dinner. A state dinner is just one country. The diplomatic reception is all the countries that the UK has relations with.


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  #76  
Old 10-12-2014, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
In order to avoid these events, they'd have to have been invited. Do we actually know of any instance where they've been invited but declined to attend? I don't think they can pick and choose what they want to do or not do when it comes to something like this. If the Queen invites, they go.
I think the main reason why they may not go to the State Banquet is because of Catherine's condition. Yes, I do believe they are invited and it's one of the reasons why they are the ones that's greeting the President and his wife and escorting them to the welcoming ceremony on Horse Guards Parade. Members of the royal family who perform this job is invited to the State Banquet in the evening. The Queen may have excused William & Catherine from the State Banquet due to Catherine's condition. There's no doubt that they've been invited though.
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  #77  
Old 10-12-2014, 12:36 AM
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I think the main reason why they may not go to the State Banquet is because of Catherine's condition. Yes, I do believe they are invited and it's one of the reasons why they are the ones that's greeting the President and his wife and escorting them to the welcoming ceremony on Horse Guards Parade. Members of the royal family who perform this job is invited to the State Banquet in the evening. The Queen may have excused William & Catherine from the State Banquet due to Catherine's condition. There's no doubt that they've been invited though.
My question was to find out if there have been any reputable sources anywhere that state that the Cambridges have been invited to such events. Is the public ever informed of what the guest lists for these banquets are?
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  #78  
Old 10-12-2014, 12:48 AM
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My question was to find out if there have been any reputable sources anywhere that state that the Cambridges have been invited to such events. Is the public ever informed of what the guest lists for these banquets are?
I'm not sure if a guest list is published. I think the royal reporters and correspondents may know who's invited on the day of the event. Due to the Cambridge's very high profile for the State Visit, they most likely on the list.

I wish the palace publish a guest list and provided more pictures and coverage though. The Live coverage for the Irish State Visit was great. Reuters Live Stream have stopped updating their twitter page for some reason and their website don't work like it used to.
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  #79  
Old 10-12-2014, 12:57 AM
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State visit of the President of Singapore: 21-23 October 2014

There really have only been 3 state visits since William left the RAF. They weren't in the country for the Irish one. The next one in spring 2015 is going to be out for baby 2 so if they don't go to this one, the next one is the fall 2015.

William did do a groundbreaking with the S Korean president last fall and they are picking up the Singapore President for this one so there has been some involvement.


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  #80  
Old 10-12-2014, 01:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
I'm not sure if a guest list is published. I think the royal reporters and correspondents may know who's invited on the day of the event. Due to the Cambridge's very high profile for the State Visit, they most likely on the list.

I wish the palace publish a guest list and provided more pictures and coverage though. The Live coverage for the Irish State Visit was great. Reuters Live Stream have stopped updating their twitter page for some reason and their website don't work like it used to.
Thanks Dman!

I wish we knew more too but I imagine not being informed is more for security reasons than anything else.

I don't think the Cambridges are that high profile yet when it comes to the monarchy and the diplomatic relationships between realms but rather that they are popular and recognizable.

As a rule, I think if the Cambridges have been invited to any of these formal dinners, they would have attended. As William once said, "You don't mess with Granny".
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