The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > British Royals

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #481  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:33 AM
AdmirerUS's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Midwest, United States
Posts: 3,090
Cepe, Lumutqueen, vkrish, et al: what a lovely, civil, fascinating discussion. This is why I belong to the forums! Thank you all.
__________________

__________________
It feels like a place where no truth goes unquestioned and where there is much more discovering to be done in the world" The Duke of Cambridge, 12/9/14

"They are pretty, they are shiny, and they are more fun to look at than the shame that lives inside us all". John Stewart, The Daily Show
Reply With Quote
  #482  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I am not asking whether a daughter can inherit.
If HRH Prince ABC, son of a monarch wants his kids to grow up simply as Mr X Mountbatten-Windsor, and no other title whatsoever, then at the time of creating him a peer, if the monarch simply omits the "heirs body male", then it is possible right?
That the peerage no longer exists after the said Prince dies, and title reverts to Crown instead of passing to his son..
Well according to the 1917 Letters Patent the children of the monarchs male line grandchildren are styled as the younger children of a duke. This is why Prince Michael's children are styled Lord and Lady even though he has no peerage.
In your scenario the monarchs son does have a peerage so then his children automatically get a courtesy title and are not plain Mr or Miss rather like the children of the Earl of Wessex.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #483  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:33 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Were/Are there any peerages created without the tag "heirs body male"?
If a son of monarch wants his kids to grow up as real-commoners (not half-way like Edward) no prefixes/no suffixes/styles/titles, just Mr X M-W then can/will the monarch create him a peer just for himself, so that after his death the title reverts to Crown, instead of passing on to his son.
Any precedence?
Or any chances of adopting this method in future as "modernisation"?
I think the answer to your question here lies in the life peers. The Queen has the ability to create life peers, and does so almost exclusively now (the only hereditary peers she makes are her family members). I'm not sure if it's actually law that all life peers are baron(esse)s or if it's just practice, but it is a precedent. I'm also not entirely sure if the children of a life peer are styled as the children of a baron or not.

There would be the problem in that creating a royal as a life peer would enable that royal to vote in the House of Lords. While he/she wouldn't actually do so, the fact that they would have the ability to might be a problem for some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post

Well according to the 1917 Letters Patent the children of the monarchs male line grandchildren are styled as the younger children of a duke. This is why Prince Michael's children are styled Lord and Lady even though he has no peerage.
In your scenario the monarchs son does have a peerage so then his children automatically get a courtesy title and are not plain Mr or Miss rather like the children of the Earl of Wessex.
True, but if Edward wanted them to be Mr. or Miss Mountbatten-Windsor they would be known as such.
Reply With Quote
  #484  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:50 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I think the answer to your question here lies in the life peers. The Queen has the ability to create life peers, and does so almost exclusively now (the only hereditary peers she makes are her family members). I'm not sure if it's actually law that all life peers are baron(esse)s or if it's just practice, but it is a precedent. I'm also not entirely sure if the children of a life peer are styled as the children of a baron or not.

There would be the problem in that creating a royal as a life peer would enable that royal to vote in the House of Lords. While he/she wouldn't actually do so, the fact that they would have the ability to might be a problem for some.



True, but if Edward wanted them to be Mr. or Miss Mountbatten-Windsor they would be known as such.
To answer your question, the children of Life Peers are styled as the children of Barons.
Anyone can chose to be known as Mr or Miss, but it still remains that as the children of a peer they also have courtesy styles and titles.
Reply With Quote
  #485  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:52 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,505
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post

To answer your question, the children of Life Peers are styled as the children of Barons.
Anyone can chose to be known as Mr or Miss, but it still remains that as the children of a peer they also have courtesy styles and titles.
That's what I figured.
Reply With Quote
  #486  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:20 PM
cepe's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posts: 4,934
Quote:
Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I am not asking whether a daughter can inherit.
If HRH Prince ABC, son of a monarch wants his kids to grow up simply as Mr X Mountbatten-Windsor, and no other title whatsoever, then at the time of creating him a peer, if the monarch simply omits the "heirs body male", then it is possible right?
That the peerage no longer exists after the said Prince dies, and title reverts to Crown instead of passing to his son..
There are life peerages issued twice a year in the honours lists - so the answer to your question is yes. Sorry I misunderstood earlier
__________________

This precious stone set in the silver sea,......
This blessed plot, this earth, this realm, this England,
Reply With Quote
  #487  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:14 PM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 9,229
Quote:
Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
Edward does A LOT for the DoE award, as does Sophie. It's on fitting that he become the next DoE when his father passes away so he can carry on the award. James will eventually become His Grace, Duke of Edinburgh and I am sure he will support the award, whether he does it or not.

Edward declined being made a Duke at his wedding because the discussion about him becoming DoE had obviously happened, thus he probably felt it wasn't right to be made a Duke twice.
He will not only have to wait until Philip passes but until The Queen passes as the title will become one of Charles' titles when Philip passes.

The stated intention is that when Charles is King and the title has merged with The Crown that it be recreated for Edward which means that theoretically we could have a period of a decade or so with The Duke of Edinburgh title not actually being used formally as Charles would be the holder but not using it as he would still use Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay as his primary titles.
Reply With Quote
  #488  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:31 PM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Conneaut, United States
Posts: 1,762
Prince Frederick Louis, grandson of King George I of England, was styled Duke of Gloucester from 1718 to 1726. He was created Duke of Edinburgh in 1726. Was he ever created Duke of Gloucester? If Yes, when?
Reply With Quote
  #489  
Old 12-20-2013, 09:56 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is offline
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,505
Nobility, Aristocracy and Titles

According to the Wikipedia page, while Frederick was styled Duke of Gloucester when he was younger, he was never actually created Duke of Gloucester. Frederick's third son, William Henry, would later be created Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh, in what can be seen as a clear reference to his father.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dukedom, royal dukes, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royal Titles Zina Royal Family of Brunei 23 01-10-2014 01:11 PM
Royal, Princely and Comital Titles MAfan Royal Families of Italy 31 11-26-2011 04:30 AM
Moroccan Royal Names and Titles bjanka66 Royal Family of Morocco 61 07-05-2011 07:21 PM
Royal Titles Through the Generations IslandDweller Royal House of Norway 13 02-24-2008 09:26 AM




Popular Tags
abdication belgium best outfit bourbon-parma brussels carl philip crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events death denmark fashion fashion poll funeral infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king juan carlos abdication king philippe king willem-alexander letizia maxima official visit photo session picture of the week poland president gauck president hollande president komorowski prince carl philip prince daniel prince henrik princess astrid princess caroline princess charlene princess madeleine princess mary princess mette-marit princess of asturias queen fabiola queen letizia queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen maxima queen maxima fashion queen maxima style queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sonja royal fashion sofia hellqvist spain state visit stockholm sweden the hague visit wedding willem-alexander william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:26 PM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2015
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]