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  #481  
Old 07-25-2013, 10:33 AM
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Cepe, Lumutqueen, vkrish, et al: what a lovely, civil, fascinating discussion. This is why I belong to the forums! Thank you all.
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  #482  
Old 07-25-2013, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I am not asking whether a daughter can inherit.
If HRH Prince ABC, son of a monarch wants his kids to grow up simply as Mr X Mountbatten-Windsor, and no other title whatsoever, then at the time of creating him a peer, if the monarch simply omits the "heirs body male", then it is possible right?
That the peerage no longer exists after the said Prince dies, and title reverts to Crown instead of passing to his son..
Well according to the 1917 Letters Patent the children of the monarchs male line grandchildren are styled as the younger children of a duke. This is why Prince Michael's children are styled Lord and Lady even though he has no peerage.
In your scenario the monarchs son does have a peerage so then his children automatically get a courtesy title and are not plain Mr or Miss rather like the children of the Earl of Wessex.
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  #483  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Were/Are there any peerages created without the tag "heirs body male"?
If a son of monarch wants his kids to grow up as real-commoners (not half-way like Edward) no prefixes/no suffixes/styles/titles, just Mr X M-W then can/will the monarch create him a peer just for himself, so that after his death the title reverts to Crown, instead of passing on to his son.
Any precedence?
Or any chances of adopting this method in future as "modernisation"?
I think the answer to your question here lies in the life peers. The Queen has the ability to create life peers, and does so almost exclusively now (the only hereditary peers she makes are her family members). I'm not sure if it's actually law that all life peers are baron(esse)s or if it's just practice, but it is a precedent. I'm also not entirely sure if the children of a life peer are styled as the children of a baron or not.

There would be the problem in that creating a royal as a life peer would enable that royal to vote in the House of Lords. While he/she wouldn't actually do so, the fact that they would have the ability to might be a problem for some.

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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post

Well according to the 1917 Letters Patent the children of the monarchs male line grandchildren are styled as the younger children of a duke. This is why Prince Michael's children are styled Lord and Lady even though he has no peerage.
In your scenario the monarchs son does have a peerage so then his children automatically get a courtesy title and are not plain Mr or Miss rather like the children of the Earl of Wessex.
True, but if Edward wanted them to be Mr. or Miss Mountbatten-Windsor they would be known as such.
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  #484  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ish View Post
I think the answer to your question here lies in the life peers. The Queen has the ability to create life peers, and does so almost exclusively now (the only hereditary peers she makes are her family members). I'm not sure if it's actually law that all life peers are baron(esse)s or if it's just practice, but it is a precedent. I'm also not entirely sure if the children of a life peer are styled as the children of a baron or not.

There would be the problem in that creating a royal as a life peer would enable that royal to vote in the House of Lords. While he/she wouldn't actually do so, the fact that they would have the ability to might be a problem for some.



True, but if Edward wanted them to be Mr. or Miss Mountbatten-Windsor they would be known as such.
To answer your question, the children of Life Peers are styled as the children of Barons.
Anyone can chose to be known as Mr or Miss, but it still remains that as the children of a peer they also have courtesy styles and titles.
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  #485  
Old 07-25-2013, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post

To answer your question, the children of Life Peers are styled as the children of Barons.
Anyone can chose to be known as Mr or Miss, but it still remains that as the children of a peer they also have courtesy styles and titles.
That's what I figured.
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  #486  
Old 07-25-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
I am not asking whether a daughter can inherit.
If HRH Prince ABC, son of a monarch wants his kids to grow up simply as Mr X Mountbatten-Windsor, and no other title whatsoever, then at the time of creating him a peer, if the monarch simply omits the "heirs body male", then it is possible right?
That the peerage no longer exists after the said Prince dies, and title reverts to Crown instead of passing to his son..
There are life peerages issued twice a year in the honours lists - so the answer to your question is yes. Sorry I misunderstood earlier
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  #487  
Old 07-25-2013, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
Edward does A LOT for the DoE award, as does Sophie. It's on fitting that he become the next DoE when his father passes away so he can carry on the award. James will eventually become His Grace, Duke of Edinburgh and I am sure he will support the award, whether he does it or not.

Edward declined being made a Duke at his wedding because the discussion about him becoming DoE had obviously happened, thus he probably felt it wasn't right to be made a Duke twice.
He will not only have to wait until Philip passes but until The Queen passes as the title will become one of Charles' titles when Philip passes.

The stated intention is that when Charles is King and the title has merged with The Crown that it be recreated for Edward which means that theoretically we could have a period of a decade or so with The Duke of Edinburgh title not actually being used formally as Charles would be the holder but not using it as he would still use Prince of Wales, Duke of Cornwall and Duke of Rothesay as his primary titles.
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  #488  
Old 12-20-2013, 08:31 PM
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Prince Frederick Louis, grandson of King George I of England, was styled Duke of Gloucester from 1718 to 1726. He was created Duke of Edinburgh in 1726. Was he ever created Duke of Gloucester? If Yes, when?
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  #489  
Old 12-20-2013, 08:56 PM
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Nobility, Aristocracy and Titles

According to the Wikipedia page, while Frederick was styled Duke of Gloucester when he was younger, he was never actually created Duke of Gloucester. Frederick's third son, William Henry, would later be created Duke of Gloucester and Edinburgh, in what can be seen as a clear reference to his father.
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