King Carl Gustaf Controversy: 2010-2011

[KittyAtlanta]

If the King is proven to have lied, he should abdicate.

If he lied about Affairs of State, he should abdicate. If he lied about his personal life, he should not abdicate.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

If he lied about Affairs of State, he should abdicate. If he lied about his personal life, he should not abdicate.

I dont think its about a forced abdication but - provided that he lied - its about a lying monarch detested and ridiculed by a majority of the public what will drag down the standing of the monarchy to a very, very low level.
And with time passing, people will ask themselves, do we need monarchy if this person in charge lives well off our money but doesnt show any moral standards?

The whole thing is dangerous because people might say monarchy = Carl Gustaf = never again.

 

[KittyAtlanta]

I don't have a dog in the fight, so I'm not going to belabor the point.

 

[Karisma]

The King will not abdicate

The King will not abdicate because of unsubstantiated claims. The media drive treats the king as a politician, or possibly a major executive. Media forget that the King is not a politician or a director. I do not know how many pundits and other political science educated people who seem to have forgotten this. Can you imagine that the monarch abdicates in favor of his daughter the Crown Princess, to avoid personal discomfort or satisfy a "moral majority" as it appears in the media? Would it somehow satisfy bloodhounds in the drive? Of course not! Then the king's any moral missteps forever written into the ruler length. It would neither benefit the king in person or monarchy. If the king earlier should hava had plans to abdicate, he indeed must wait. The more the media continues with its exaggerated unsubstantiated allegations, the more firmly seated the king on the throne. (The exception that the King would be accused of crimes against national security, but there have been no such accusations).

 

[nascarlucy]

Someone if they wanted to could make Snow White or Cinderella immoral. Or make an issue out of a non-issue because you don't like that person or they don't like their ex-boyfriend or their friends, so they make them into an issue. This usually backfires. It look like those not actually in politics are keeping this up as this is not coming from the Swedish parliment or the PM.

I guess there must not be much news in Sweden as this story comes up over and over again.

Those who do this beware as it could come back on you. A person who repeatedly criticizes someone and attacks others for moral failings usually have their own moral failings and sometimes theirs is worse. You see this happen in American politics all the time. The one who yell the loudest are the worst offenders.

 

[Tiberivs]

It's actually look like a well organize smear campaign than a scandal, the media take some rumors and gossip (usually with little proof or none at all), print it again and again until its blown into a scandal and then use the media buzz to force their target out of his position/job

[On a side note I should mention I know almost nothing about the Swedish media, so I can't speculate on her motives or usual standards of conducts but I definitely see a pattern in this artificial scandal]

Until hard proofs are presented which verify those accusations as truth one should be extremely careful in believing them.

 

[Mermaid1962]

A lie is a lie. A person who lies isn't a person people can trust. A monarch should be trust-worthy IMO.

If he lied about Affairs of State, he should abdicate. If he lied about his personal life, he should not abdicate.

 

[NotHRH]

If he lied about Affairs of State, he should abdicate. If he lied about his personal life, he should not abdicate.

I agree, KittyAtlanta
I find many parallels between HM King Carl XVI Gustaf's current situation with that of similar situation of a former US President. A Head of State's personal life and personal business is simply none of our business. If a HoS lies about happenings in his/her personal life it is because it is none of our business. With the 24/7 news cycle, precious time must be filled with the media-blitz on the flavor of the day/week/month...
It is HM's own personal business with whom he is keeping company - it has no bearing on his/her abilities as a HoS. So many past Heads of State had had numerous affairs, most without the public's knowledge. Who made us the morality police?
KittyAtlanta's post stated her opinion on this topic, and I totally agree with her!

 

[NotHRH]

A lie is a lie. A person who lies isn't a person people can trust. A monarch should be trust-worthy IMO.

Huh?? Everybody lies. Again, we all lie. All of us - everybody - lies!

 

[Lady Felicity M]

He may have kept the truth from his people as it was his own personal life. Not everyone are perfect little prince or princess, I am pretty sure that all of you including myself are not perfect and never will be. He did what he did, people may not like it but it is done, it is in the past

 

[mattep74]

Last year one of our ministers, Sven-Otto Littorin was accused of visiting prostitutes by Aftonbladet that hunted him with the intention of damaging the goverment within 2 months before the general elections. The reporters even went after his children. He resigned and went into hiding. Media got what they wanted.

They go after the king the same way and know that whoever brings him down will get MASSIVE credits in the media, but it dont work since the people reading the papers feel pitty for the king instead of wanting him to resign

 

[Karisma]

Do You know more?

A lie is a lie. A person who lies isn't a person people can trust. A monarch should be trust-worthy IMO.

Who is lying? One can not abruptly pronuncing something You do not have knowledge of. You do not know more than others, something about "the truth". One might think that His Majesty the King has handled the media data poor but we don´t know anything about what is truth or what is lies. It makes some Swedish media (hostile to the Monarchy) is to dwell on the same claim over and over again without proving anything. The evidence of what is alleged is lousy and in a democratic constitutional state is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

 

[nascarlucy]

Those who repeat these stories are hoping that if you hear this over and over again at some point you will start to believe or eventually will believe what you are hearing. That is their goal. Sometimes it backfires especially if its done for political purposes.

 

[CSENYC]

I agree, KittyAtlanta
I find many parallels between HM King Carl XVI Gustaf's current situation with that of similar situation of a former US President. A Head of State's personal life and personal business is simply none of our business. If a HoS lies about happenings in his/her personal life it is because it is none of our business. With the 24/7 news cycle, precious time must be filled with the media-blitz on the flavor of the day/week/month...
It is HM's own personal business with whom he is keeping company - it has no bearing on his/her abilities as a HoS. So many past Heads of State had had numerous affairs, most without the public's knowledge. Who made us the morality police?
KittyAtlanta's post stated her opinion on this topic, and I totally agree with her!

I unfortunately cannot agree. If a government official lies to his people about his personal life, how can people trust what he says to his people about state issues---or anything?

 

[Mermaid1962]

My posts have always been under the assumption that the King is innocent until proven guilty. However, IF he is proven to have lied, it doesn't matter whether the lie was over something official or something involving his personal life. That was the point I was making. I sincerely hope that the King is innocent of wrong doing. I have a great deal of respect for constitutional monarchs and I mean no offence.

Who is lying? One can not abruptly pronuncing something You do not have knowledge of.

 

[Mermaid1962]

No, not everyone lies. People who never lie might be rare, but they do exist.

Huh?? Everybody lies. Again, we all lie. All of us - everybody - lies!

 

[Karisma]

I am so proud of our King and our homeland.

Silence in the Swedish media about our Royal Court. Is it that they found someone else to harm, or is it the calm before the storm? Anyway, I am encouraged that some journalists have drawn too tightly and thus exhausted its credibility. The monarchy will be even stronger after this ...

I also wonder where all the supposed pictures are? If that is so horribly wide median in them, so ought all newspapers publish them. Then, besides, not a criminal make money from them.

 

[nascarlucy]

Pictures might not exist. Or the pictures aren't authentic. Or the person who supposedly has them really doesn't have any pictures and is just playing a game with the media or doing this for other motives. This may explain why they haven't come out in the media.

 

[LadyFinn]

Pictures might not exist. Or the pictures aren't authentic. Or the person who supposedly has them really doesn't have any pictures and is just playing a game with the media or doing this for other motives. This may explain why they haven't come out in the media.

Markovic said that the photos will be published just when his biography is ready, not before.

Now, the controversy pops out again.
Anders Lettström´s (the friend of the king) letter to his friends about
- his friend, the king
- the mafia
- the photos
He pleads for understanding.
Expressen

 

[Iva]

Markovic said that the photos will be published just when his biography is ready, not before.

Now, the controversy pops out again.
Anders Lettström´s (the friend of the king) letter to his friends about
- his friend, the king
- the mafia
- the photos
He pleads for understanding.
Expressen

He does not have very good friends when such informations leak into media over and over again.

 

[Boris]

Jusging by the cover page, nothing 'leaked'.
Anders Lettström, the childhood friend of the King who tried to buy incriminating pictures showing himself and the King by using his own contacts to criminals, apparently gave an interview to 'Expressen'... which is particularly bad timing in cucumber season and just when the coverage of the issue had died down considerably.

 

[LadyFinn]

Scoop magazine says on its new number that the Foreign Ministry got young women to the king.
- It's time the court will be examined thoroughly, says Scoops editor Frederick Nejman. Thomas Sjöberg's book broke the barrier and more investigations are ongoing.

Part of the theme issue is a republication of Stig Edling article in Pocket magazine R, 1977 "The King and prostitution." It describes how the Mthe Foreign Ministry´s "butler" repeatedly was asked to sneak young women to the king.

And now Edling reveals that he dared to write that the Foreign Ministry was his source.
Have you contacted the court for a comment?
- Yes, I have both mailed, written letters and phoned. But they have not responded in eight weeks.
Resumé: Svensk media ignorerar ny kunga-skandal

The news has spread internationally today. Dagbladet in Norway and Ekstra Bladet in Denmark have published the information. But Swedish media awaits.
Ekstra Bladet - Diplomater skaffede damer til stripperkongen

 

[Sonjapearl]

The data stick, which contains material stolen from the hard drive of Nuri Kino, an investigative journalist, was mailed on Monday to Anders Lettström, a childhood friend of the king, with a message saying it came from "some friends", according to Sweden's Expressen newspaper.

Mr Lettström handed the material to Swedish Police on Wednesday.

The 65-year-old King Carl Gustav's reputation was shattered last year following the publication of The Reluctant Monarch, a biography by Swedish journalist Thomas Sjöberg, which alleged that the King had attended sex parties hosted by Serbian gangster Mille Markovic at his underground club in Stockholm almost 40 years ago

Swedish King braced for further allegations about sex parties - Telegraph

Is the 40 years part a typo? If not, why should it matter so much that the King engaged in sex parties before he was married or even a father? OK, the gangster part may be troublesome, but the King wasn't hurting his family.

 

[MARG]

Swedish King braced for further allegations about sex parties - Telegraph

Is the 40 years part a typo? If not, why should it matter so much that the King engaged in sex parties before he was married or even a father? OK, the gangster part may be troublesome, but the King wasn't hurting his family.

I am in total agreement. If it is not a typo I have to wonder what all the fuss is about. Everyone else is allowed to grow and mature, I am not the same person I was 10 years ago let alone 40 years ago, neither is King Carl Gustaf.

As to the "Gangster" problem, well I don't suppose he actually advertised the fact and he must have had entrée into the highest echelons of society for the King to have even met him. How many other people, politicians, captains of industry, etc. were also involved with this particular "Set".

 

[LadyFinn]

Mille Markovic says the pictures of the king watching a sex show will be published in a few weeks:
- They will appear in a few weeks. It would have been done earlier but was delayed. It's been a tough time. The publication was delayed when those who worked with the images were under violent threats. The pictures will be published at any cost, Markovic said to Resumé.
Resumé: "Bilderna på kungen publiceras inom kort"
Google translation
Mille Markovic: De ska visas inom några veckor - Nyheter - Senaste nytt | Expressen
Google translation

There was a big article in Monday´s finnish Iltasanomat (paper version) about the royal family, based on an article in Expressen. After the book “Den motvillige monarken” every member of the royal family has been extremely disappointed with the king. Queen Silvia hasn´t been able to forgive her husband, their relationship is very frosty. After the book was published, there was a long time when the king and queen didn´t even speak to each other. Now they are trying to keep up “The happy family” –charade.
The article also pointed out that Madeleine and Carl Philip like to stay as far away from the crisis as possible. Madeleine stayed in Sweden barely for two days at the World Child and Youth Forum and went back to USA. Carl Philip was on a long vacation in Thailand with Sofia and now, according to Expressen, he and Sofia are planning to stay in South Africa for a month doing charity work (I don´t believe this since he is said to be at the Nobel). After the publication of the book Daniel has been the one, who has tried to support the family in their problems as much as he can. Especially important Daniel has been to his wife and his mother-in-law. The scandal has been very tough for Victoria. She can´t run away abroad of the family problems like her sister and brother.
Jenny Alexandersson told to Iltasanomat a few weeks ago, that it is easy to see the change in the relationships inside the royal family. She thinks that the scandal has been the worst for the king, who has difficulties to trust his friends nowadays. And it has been very difficult for the rest of the family to handle with the information of the infidelity of the king and the much spoken partying with young women. Although this happened a long time ago, it is very hurtful to the queen and the children.

 

[LadyFinn]

Aftonbladet has a sound file of Anders Lettström saying that he told to the king about his meeting with the gangsters about trying to persuade Markovic not to publish the photos.
http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article14025940.ab

Yesterday Aftonbladet presented the sound file for Anders Lettström. His comment was that the sound files are manipulated. But an expert is saying that the sound file is authentic.
Expert: Filerna är autentiska | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

The forensic analysis of the sound file.
Här kan du läsa hela utlåtandet | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

Aftonbladets Anders Johansson met Bertil Ternert, the director of the Information and Press Department of the court yesterday. He said there is nothing new in this and that the court didn´t want to comment it further.
Hovets svar: Inget är nytt | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

Lena Mellin from Aftonbladet writes very, very hard text:
If Anders Lettström is speaking the truth, the scandal is absolute. The king then knew that his friends tried to silence a gangster by using the services of other hard criminals. That is not how the head of state can function. The book "The reluctant monarch" claimed that the king had an affair with a certain artist, that he and his friends spent time with scantily clad women in a private club run by a criminal who brought in "professional girls".
The king has not clearly denied the information. Instead, he said that it is time to turn the page and that he had spoken with his family.
A book's source, Mille Markovic threatened to publish photos of the king and his friends. King's friends denied the information and talked about legal action. But they took instead a completely different initiative. The king´s friend Anders Lettström took contact with "the Swedish godfather" Milan Sevo and his partner Daniel Webb. Lettström wanted them to track down Markovic, buy the alleged photos and persuade him to deny the information in the book.
The deal was not completed, because Markovic wanted too much money. The talks between Lettström, Sevo and Webb were taped secretly by Webb. The recordings show that Lettström wanted to inform the king about the negotiations. Lettström says that he called the "boss" and asked for an audience to tell what was going on. Lettström says also that he told the king that Markovic could deny the information in the book if he got paid. This is sensational information if Lettström telling the truth. And why should he not do it? Lettström confessed on May 23 that he contacted a criminal. The next day the king gave a written statement. He took in it distance from all forms of negotiations with criminals.
But if Lettström is telling the truth the king knew that he through criminal agent negotiated with the gangster Mille Markovic.
Did the king lie? Yes, if Lettström is telling the truth the head of state lied to the Swedish people.
On 30 May, the king gave a long interview to TT. There he denied not only the strip club visits, but said, again, that he did not know about Lettström´s negotiations. The king said also that he would never again meet with Lettström.
But if Lettström is telling the truth, the king knew what Lettström was doing and did not take distance from his gangster connections until the media published them. The king is Sweden's head of state, a symbol of constitutional state and democracy. If he was informed that his friend negotiated with hard criminals, and didn´t stop it, he can no longer be the head of state.
Lena Mellin: Om det är sant har kungen gjort sig omöjlig | Lena Mellin | Kolumnister | Nyheter | Aftonbladet

Now also Expressen writes about this in the ground of the information in Aftonbladet:
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.2640537/lettstrom-kungen-kande-till-gangstermoten
http://translate.google.fi/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=fi&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.expressen.se%2Fnyheter%2F1.2640537%2Flettstrom-kungen-kande-till-gangstermoten
An expert, Ulf Bjereld says that If the king has lied in the Swedish people's faces, we get a discussion of abdication, but it is not certain that he will resign and this presupposes that there is a water-tight evidence.
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.2...t-om-kungen-ljugit-i-svenska-folkets-ansikten
http://translate.google.fi/translat...t-om-kungen-ljugit-i-svenska-folkets-ansikten
And the court:
http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/1.2...-med-tidigare-och-vi-har-kommenterat-tidigare
http://translate.google.fi/translat...-med-tidigare-och-vi-har-kommenterat-tidigare

 

[LadyFinn]

The politicians and political scientists want answers from the king:
Nu krävs kungen på sanningen - Nyheter - Senaste nytt | Expressen
Google translation

 

[Esmerelda]

Oh, dear. Things aren't looking good are they?

 

[American Dane]

Oh, dear. Things aren't looking good are they?

That's what I'm thinking as well. Whatever credibility the Swedish monarchy once had, it's not there anymore.

What really bothers me is a part of the summary LadyFinn wrote in post 175:
The article also pointed out that Madeleine and Carl Philip like to stay as far away from the crisis as possible. Madeleine stayed in Sweden barely for two days at the World Child and Youth Forum and went back to USA. Carl Philip was on a long vacation in Thailand with Sofia and now, according to Expressen, he and Sofia are planning to stay in South Africa for a month doing charity work (I don´t believe this since he is said to be at the Nobel). After the publication of the book Daniel has been the one, who has tried to support the family in their problems as much as he can. Especially important Daniel has been to his wife and his mother-in-law. The scandal has been very tough for Victoria. She can´t run away abroad of the family problems like her sister and brother.

How sad for Victoria that she doesn't have the privileges that her brother and sister have to run away from these problems. Thankfully Daniel (the one the King was so indifferent to...) is there for his wife and mother-in-law

 

[Kataryn]

How sad for Victoria that she doesn't have the privileges that her brother and sister have to run away from these problems. Thankfully Daniel (the one the King was so indifferent to...) is there for his wife and mother-in-law

Poor Victoria. I only hope the king does not have to abdicate, so she doesn't have top start her life as queen being the mother of a newborn baby. Of course I'm sure Daniel is perfectly able to raise their child as other men do who have successful wifes and stay at home for the kids nowadays. But this is not something I'd like to see. Victoria and Daniel should have time for each other and their family before Victoria will be queen. We've seen with Elizabeth and Charles or Margrethe and Frederick that it's not easy to have the queen as a mother, when the kids are small.