Princess Margaret, Countess of Snowdon (1930-2002)

[Denville]

I am sure they would have liked a boy, but I don't know that they took ages to have a name for her.
I'm sure that she was bitter when as time went on, she saw her sisters chidlren getting divorced or causing scandals and NOT having to think of giving up royal life. But while you can sort of understand that, its life. Time goes on, and things change and that things that weren't acceptable when she was young became acceptable.
I think she felt "left behind by history".. that she was a divorced older woman, no longer popular, and then she saw the younger royals getting divorced, leaving their husbands like Diana etc..

 

[Kronprinz]

The truth is that, 15 years after her death, hardly anyone will remember her apart from dedicated royalists.

Most younger people won't even know the Queen had a sibling once.

 

[Nico]

She was not nice for sure, but above all i think she was a deeply sad woman, who didn't find some meaning to her very privileged status.
At least she had two grounded and creative children, and found some peace at the very end of her life.
Utterly sad and lost destiny.

 

[sndral]

Now that you mention it, I also think that the idea of moving out of the only life she knew frightened her.
She wanted both worlds - she wanted to be HRH The Princess Margaret and have Peter Townsend for her husband. Perhaps in a certain way she was ahead of her time...

What comes up suddenly is that I once read, I believe it was Hello Magazine's tribute to her after her death, that her parents were anticipating a boy and when she was born it took her parents up to two weeks to come up with a name for her.
If true, might she not have felt that somehow all along? Kind of the "unwanted child"?

I thought I read that her parents wanted her first name to be something - Anne or Rose or something like that - and King George V and Queen Mary were opposed to that name, so it was something of a compromise on her name.

 

[Countessmeout]

Indeed. The queen mum wrote to Mary sayings she wished to name her daughter Anne Margaret. But the king was opposed to the name. The compromise was Margaret Rose.

It was also said that the name was delayed in being registered due to superstition. They didn't wish her to be the thirteenth child in the parish registry. Not sure how true that is, but read it.

 

[sarahedwards2]

In the movie The Queen starring Helen Mirren, when Robin says to Elizabeth, regarding Cherie Blair, "You may remember her curtsey the first time you met. It could be best described as shallow", Elizabeth replies, "I don't measure the depth of a curtsey, Robin. I leave that to my sister." What does that even mean?

 

[HRHHermione]

In the movie The Queen starring Helen Mirren, when Robin says to Elizabeth, regarding Cherie Blair, "You may remember her curtsey the first time you met. It could be best described as shallow", Elizabeth replies, "I don't measure the depth of a curtsey, Robin. I leave that to my sister." What does that even mean?

The quick and shallow curtsey was meant to show that Cherie Blair was a Republican who didn't have a lot of respect for the monarchy.

The Queen's response was meant to show she doesn't mind- Margaret, on the other hand, was famous for insisting on very formal protocol around her at all times.

 

[Kronprinz]

The thing that really crossed you off her list was failing to address her as YRH and Ma'am.

 

[Westfield Bakery]

They say that The Princess Margaret was very rude and inconsiderate to people around the world.

I hope that isn't the reason that her death in 2002 did not generate so much attention as previous royals.


I hope she had a good relationship with her niece, Anne. Princesses Margaret and Anne are similar, tough, brash, and curt. Anne has a little Margaret personality in her and it comes from her mother, Queen Elizabeth II, her father, Prince Philip, and grandmother, Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother.


As for Margaret, I hope she had a good relationship with her niece and nephews. I know she loved Charles the most--her eldest nephew. Andrew has some of her traits as well.

 

[Curryong]

I don't think either the Queen or the Queen Mother were/are known for being brash, tough and curt. Quite the reverse in fact, especially in the case of the QM.

 

[Denville]

I woould not say that Margaret was brash. She coudl be charming at times, and brash is not a word I'd associate with her since it suggests a "loud" sort of bad manners and her failures in good manners were more low key. But she was indeed selfish and often rude, in keeping guests up late at night, insisting on her royal status, doing little work as a royal..
I don't know why you say that she "loved Charles most". I don't know any evidence of this... and I don't know if she had the closest relationship with her sisters children, as she strikes me as someone who wasnt' fond of children except her own.
She certainly wasn't popular, as she grew older she was very much sidelined. She did fewer engagements, and was overshadowed by the younger royals including Diana and Sarah. Heatlh problems meant that she was seen less and less in public and she never really recovered popularity after her affairs and divorce in the late 70s.. so by the time she died her "time had passed" and the public wasn't interested in her anymore.
Anne is rude and selfifh also but in a more aggressive way, and she is at least a hard worker.. But I don't see any resemblance between the horsey matter of fact Anne and her aunt who was arty, vain and a fancy dresser...

 

[Denville]

Indeed. The queen mum wrote to Mary sayings she wished to name her daughter Anne Margaret. But the king was opposed to the name. The compromise was Margaret Rose.

It was also said that the name was delayed in being registered due to superstition. They didn't wish her to be the thirteenth child in the parish registry. Not sure how true that is, but read it.

I think that that's true actualy, abot the 13th child.
And I think that it is also the reason why they didn't have a name sorted out quickly.. NOT because they were expecting a boy but because the King didn't like the name Ann, for some reason so he vetoed it. perhaps that is why the queen's daughter is called Anne, because the QM liked it and did not get to use it for her own daughter.

 

[Dee Anna]

What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?

 

[Osipi]

I don't think I'd ever say that Margaret was chronically rude even. Its just that she was always conscious of her status. In a book I recently read, the author stated that there were those that were ever mindful of status and how one could tell is the way they would phrase a request. For example, the Queen Mother was always mindful to be courteous to those that worked for her and would state a request like "Do you think if you have a minute that you could wrap this up for me, please?" meaning of course it was what she wanted done and people paid attention to that. It was their job.

Then there were people like Andrew and Margaret, being every mindful of just who they were, would phrase a request as a command to underlings. In the book, it was stated that Andrew's catch phrase could be "Do it."

I've never come across anything in my reading that Margaret was overly close to Charles or any of her nieces and nephews but it was interesting to read that the Queen Mother had quite a close relationship with her grandson David Linley. She loved his fast cars and he would sometimes take her whizzing through the streets of London. No one would recognize the Queen Mum because it was a rarity to see her in public with a headscarf on rather than a hat.

Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.

 

[Dee Anna]

Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.

Thank you for that! Added to my list! ?

 

[Curryong]

What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?

Nothing was wrong with the name Anne. King George V just didn't like it, that's all, and, a bit like Queen Victoria, what he said went, as far as his adult children were concerned.

I don't think Elizabeth the QM actually interfered. She probably just said a few times over the years how much she liked the name Anne. She may have half laughingly told her adult daughters how it was vetoed.

The Queen Mother was a proud Scot, and the Bowes Lyons were themselves proud of their role in Scotland's history. The Queen may well have grown up with that, and she regularly visited Glamis when she was a child. It's just my opinion, but I feel that it was no coincidence that the Queen gave Stuart names to her two older children.

 

[Denville]

I should say that The QM may have had a role in helping to Choose Annes name. perhaps the queen (Eliz II) liked the name anyway and her mother reminded her of its being a Stuart Royal name.. and that she had liked the name for one of her children but been discouraged from using it.. and possibly ELiz II decided to use it for her own daughter... the other names given to Anne were family names.. Alice for Phil's mother, Eliz for the queen herself and the QM, and Louise was a very common royal name..
Margaret is of course also a Scottish royal name, so perhaps the QM chose it because of that, when she was told Anne was out.. And one of HER middle names was of course Marguerite...

 

[Denville]

I don't think I'd ever say that Margaret was chronically rude even. Its just that she was always conscious of her status.
Then there were people like Andrew and Margaret, being every mindful of just who they were, would phrase a request as a command to underlings. In the book, it was stated that Andrew's catch phrase could be "Do it."


Information here comes from the book "Behind Palace Doors: My Service As The Queen Mother's Equerry" by Major Colin Burgess. Its a good read.

I think they are both rude, Andrew is known for being boorish and for many gaffes in public. Margaret's hauteur is more low key but it is also well attested..

 

[QueenPenny]

What was wrong with the name Anne?

Would the QM really have had a say in the naming of Elizabeth and Philip's second child?

My mother wanted to name me Ann (no e), as it is a family name on her side, and my older sister was given a name that is a family name on my dad's side. My dad vetoed it as too plain for a first name so it is my middle name, which is extremely common among Catholic girls anyway. They named me Jennifer - the most common name of girls in my age group. All through grammar school, in a class with about a dozen girls, I was one of 3 Jennifers Ann would have at least been a little different!

I can definitely believe that the QM put in her 2 pence about naming Anne; my parents & in-laws gave their opinions about the naming of my kids. As a matter of fact, my twin daughters are named for their 4x great aunts who were the only other twins on my mom's side of the family, and it was my great-grandmother's idea. They both have lovely, old-fashioned French names.

Based on what I've read of Margaret, I guess i can see similarities in her & Anne's personalities. But I do not see Anne as the type to stand on ceremony as much as Margaret evidently did.

 

[Denville]

What similarities? Anne is horsey and hard working. Margaret was artistic, and did not work very hard at royal duties. Anne cares little for her appearance, Margo dressed fashionably... and enjoyed an urbanite social life. Anne is a country lover.
Anne is of a different generation to her Aunt and while rude and arrogant, still a lot more democratic than Margaret.

 

[Denville]

What similarities? Anne is horsey and hard working. Margaret was artistic, and did not work very hard at royal duties. Anne cares little for her appearance, Margo dressed fashionably... and enjoyed an urbanite social life. Anne is a country lover.
Anne is of a different generation to her Aunt and while rude and arrogant, still a lot more democratic than Margaret.

 

[sarahedwards2]

My mother wanted to name me Ann (no e), as it is a family name on her side, and my older sister was given a name that is a family name on my dad's side. My dad vetoed it as too plain for a first name so it is my middle name, which is extremely common among Catholic girls anyway. They named me Jennifer - the most common name of girls in my age group. All through grammar school, in a class with about a dozen girls, I was one of 3 Jennifers Ann would have at least been a little different!



I can definitely believe that the QM put in her 2 pence about naming Anne; my parents & in-laws gave their opinions about the naming of my kids. As a matter of fact, my twin daughters are named for their 4x great aunts who were the only other twins on my mom's side of the family, and it was my great-grandmother's idea. They both have lovely, old-fashioned French names.



Based on what I've read of Margaret, I guess i can see similarities in her & Anne's personalities. But I do not see Anne as the type to stand on ceremony as much as Margaret evidently did.

Anne is also a common middle name for girls named Katherine.



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[Curryong]

Yes, it seems to have become a reasonably common middle name. It was popular in Britain as a girls name in the 1950s, almost certainly because of Princess Anne, I think, but declined after that.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

some more on the book to come
Princess Margaret: Life on island 'like an Ibiza party' | Daily Mail Online

 

[Denville]

The thing that really crossed you off her list was failing to address her as YRH and Ma'am.

It would be rude and incorrect, in Margaret's day for someone to fail to address her without her proper title, unless she gave them permission to do so. what was rude About Margaret was that she apparently would be friendly and informal with people and then freeze up and act haughtily...

 

[Skippy]

This reading about Princess Margaret's behavior makes me think of Lady Catherine de Bourgh in Pride and Prejudice. Rude and interfering, but veiled in a cloud of polite superiority.
One of those people who think they know better and are better, simply because of their status in life. That is indeed what I call haughty and arrogant. Ugh.

 

[Osipi]

You forgot condescending in your analysis but its right on the money when you compare Margaret with Lady Catherine deBourgh in Jane Austen's work. Two peas in a pod as far as character. They could be downright odious at times. ?

 

[angieuk]

Lord Snowdon's £3.2m will leaves nothing to lovechild | Daily Mail Online

I wonder if her engagement and wedding would have happened if, Tony-Armstrong Jones had come clean about this; prior to their 1960 engagement.

He was certainly no gentleman!!

 

[Curryong]

We don't know that Tony knew for sure that he was the father at the time. In those days, before DNA tests could give a definitive answer, there were probably many of those sort of cases involving straying wives, especially within Society circles.

I think Paula Yates's father wasn't her mother's husband either, but turned out to have been TV games show host Hughie Green, so quite similar circumstances.

It's sad that Lord Snowden didn't openly acknowledge Polly years later, but as far as the money is concerned, I think she is quite comfortably off, anyway.

 

[sarahedwards2]

We don't know that Tony knew for sure that he was the father at the time. In those days, before DNA tests could give a definitive answer, there were probably many of those sort of cases involving straying wives, especially within Society circles.

I think Paula Yates's father wasn't her mother's husband either, but turned out to have been TV games show host Hughie Green, so quite similar circumstances.

It's sad that Lord Snowden didn't openly acknowledge Polly years later, but as far as the money is concerned, I think she is quite comfortably off, anyway.

Was Polly born yet at the time of Antony and Margaret's wedding?


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