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  #561  
Old 08-03-2007, 10:24 PM
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Same quicksand

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom View Post
Hello. I've been away from a computer & the internet for about 10 days. Has anything officially progressed with Albert and Charlene?

Thanks & regards.
No Freedom same quicksand ..here and there nothing new or official........ no betrothal announcement...zilch...
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  #562  
Old 08-03-2007, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by paca View Post
But isn't that what Charlene is doing as well? Failing and running away and now being a media attraction and just like her enjoying it and using the media?
These days, it seems as though that's very much the case although it isn't clear what her motivations are - whether she's capable of making the Olympic team but deciding that she has more of a future with Albert (or via Albert - I'm not sure whether it's clear exactly which is going on) so she's going for the longer-term option rather than the shorter-term one or whether she isn't capable of doing so and is reluctant to admit it to herself or to others, or exactly what's happening. However, at her age and with a history of both success and injury and with a male companion who isn't exactly known for his steadfast fidelity and who's probably accustomed to his female companions considering him the most important thing in their lives, she's in a more complicated position than Diana was.

Diana had a history of giving up and dropping out from very early on, and it became a pattern as she got older. She seemed to be very lacking in confidence, possibly as a result of her emotionally insecure childhood, which seemed to cause her to run away from challenges rather than to face them. With the swimming, Charlene at least had a goal and did the necessary to try and achieve it. I think it's often hard for athletes who've dedicated a lot of their youth to their training and then they get close to retirement age and the longer-term future suddenly becomes a reality. In some countries things aren't set up so that it's easy to combine education with athletic achievement; it is in the USA, it isn't in England, and I have no idea about South Africa. Diana's lack of education wasn't because she was striving for some other goal, it's because (so her biographers say) she was reading Barbara Cartland novels and hanging out with her friends instead of doing her homework.

The difference between them is probably somewhat less important, though, than the difference between Charles and Albert where the respective relationships are concerned. By the time Diana came along, Charles was set in his ways, happily and discreetly involved with Camilla, and being pestered by his older relatives to get married even though his quoted comments at the time showed that he was very reluctant to do so. He also didn't have the baggage of illegitmate children coming out of the woodwork every few months. His interests were clearly very different from Diana's, but that apparently wasn't considered all that important because he seemed to see marriage as an unavoidable duty rather than a fulfilling relationship, although his interests in things like philosophy, theology, and other intellectual-type pursuits were obviously way beyond her experience. Left to his own preferences, there's no particular reason why he should have married Diana, but he wasn't left to his own preferences. Albert, on the other hand, is now the ruling prince, he doesn't have his father breathing down his neck with demands about getting married and producing legitimate heirs and giving up unsuitable girlfriends, he doesn't (as far as I know) have high-flown intellectual pretensions of the sort that would intimidate an uneducated companion or spouse, and presumably he's with Charlene at the moment because he wants to be, for whatever reason, regardless of her lack of education and so on, because if he decided to end the relationship she wouldn't have much choice about it.

Quote:
I don't see so much difference between the two including Charlene practicing her wounded deer look for the pics and the preference for dark eyeliner. I get more and more the impression that she is trying for a mix of Grace and Diana, both highly mediatised.
When she starts trying to upstage Albert and subtly belittle him to the press and using his children against him and all the other tricks Diana tried, I'll be more inclined to agree. If she's got any sense, she'll go more for the Grace side of things than the Diana side.
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  #563  
Old 08-04-2007, 06:05 AM
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Great post Elspeth (I see you are not a great fan of Diana's behaviour, and I couldn't agree more) and CaliforniaDreamin. I agree about both your analysis of Albert's behaviour and of the difference between Albert, Charles, Diana and Charlene...

In my opinion the problems in this relationship are due mainly to Albert who is handling the situation quite badly, putting everyone (Charlene first) in a difficult position; he seems incapable of dating the type of woman we all picture as a good Princess (Ranja of Jordan is a great example, but for what I know also Mary or Denmark and Letizia of Spain are women who had a successful career before becoming the wives of future kings).
The point is what we praise in a woman, doesn't seem to appeal to Albert to the point that I don't doubt Charlene's qualities anymore, but Albert's; as it has been said, he seems to value looks over brain, and enjoying life over his responsibilities (see also articles about his absences from Monaco). I'm sorry to say I had many hopes for his reing that have already be disappointed...
So yes, I'm sure Charlene could be trained to become a princess (don't know with how much success) but first someone should train Albert to be a good Reigning Prince!
  #564  
Old 08-04-2007, 07:24 AM
Aristocracy
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
These days, it seems as though that's very much the case although it isn't clear what her motivations are - whether she's capable of making the Olympic team but deciding that she has more of a future with Albert (or via Albert - I'm not sure whether it's clear exactly which is going on) so she's going for the longer-term option rather than the shorter-term one or whether she isn't capable of doing so and is reluctant to admit it to herself or to others, or exactly what's happening.
Quote:
Elspeth, you've got it.... great
However, at her age and with a history of both success and injury and with a male companion who isn't exactly known for his steadfast fidelity and who's probably accustomed to his female companions considering him the most important thing in their lives, she's in a more complicated position than Diana was.
.......................... Albert, on the other hand, is now the ruling prince, he doesn't have his father breathing down his neck with demands about getting married and producing legitimate heirs and giving up unsuitable girlfriends, he doesn't (as far as I know) have high-flown intellectual pretensions
Quote:
YES, YES, YES, remember his interview when he was young, not reading books
of the sort that would intimidate an uneducated companion or spouse, and presumably he's with Charlene at the moment because he wants to be, for whatever reason, regardless of her lack of education and so on,
Quote:
Great!!!!!
because if he decided to end the relationship she wouldn't have much choice about it.
When she starts trying to upstage Albert and subtly belittle him to the press and using his children against him and all the other tricks Diana tried, I'll be more inclined to agree. If she's got any sense, she'll go more for the Grace side of things than the Diana side.
I'm glad, you posted this...
so the possible next princess has no education, no job, no self esteem, she's ambitious and blabs... Bunte seems to be her "megaphone"... , glamourous way...
  #565  
Old 08-04-2007, 12:22 PM
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I'm not sure about "no self esteem"; I suppose it's possible to be an international-standard sports star without self esteem, but I don't know that it'd be that common.

Is she still blabbing to the press, or are you referring to interviews she gave last year? Seems as though more than a few girls who hook up with princes give interviews in the excitement of the early relationship and learn their lessons later. Heck, even the Queen Mother spoke to the newspapers after her engagement and ended up getting reprimanded by King George V.

However, yes, it appears that Albert has found himself a companion who, at least on the surface, has more style than substance. But given his history, is anyone surprised? And was anyone really expecting any different? And would that necessarily stop her becoming a viable consort to a prince like Albert?
  #566  
Old 08-04-2007, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Great post Elspeth (I see you are not a great fan of Diana's behaviour, and I couldn't agree more)
Thank you! I do think that Diana was in a really difficult position that she wasn't really equipped to handle, and I don't care for her behaviour during the time of her separation and divorce, especially the Panorama interview and the "I want to be Queen in people's hearts statement" which is where she finally threw down a gauntlet to the Queen as well as trying to undermine Charles. But I think in the Charles-Diana debacle, the people who are really to blame are the older generation, who should have given a lot more support to Charles and Diana as they were growing up and, for whatever reason, really didn't.

Quote:
So yes, I'm sure Charlene could be trained to become a princess (don't know with how much success) but first someone should train Albert to be a good Reigning Prince!
Maybe he should spend some time on this forum. I'm sure we could give him some highly valuable training.
  #567  
Old 08-04-2007, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post

Maybe he should spend some time on this forum. I'm sure we could give him some highly valuable training.
Yap and how that is going to be soooo much fun !
  #568  
Old 08-04-2007, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaliforniaDreamin View Post
Monaco is a very Catholic principality. The Constitution states that only children of a "valid Catholic marriage" can ascend the throne. So unless Albert
and Charlene's children will not be eligible for accession, she will need to convert. However you are very correct...it is very possible that CW and PA could have a Catholic/Protestant ceremony...I just don't see it happening at all.

The Principality and the House of Grimaldi have had close ties to the Papacy for centuries.

Monaco has never had a non-Catholic Princess. I can't imagine that Charlene wants to be the first.
Actually, it doesn't. The constitution states only that
Quote:
Art. 9. - La religion catholique, apostolique et romaine est religion d'Etat.(The catholic, apostolic and roman religion it the state religion.)
It further mentions that
Quote:
La succession au Trône, ouverte par suite de décès ou d'abdication, s'opère dans la descendance directe et légitime du Prince régnant, par ordre de primogéniture avec priorité masculine au même degré de parenté.(The succession to the throne, either by demise or by abdication, proceeds via direct and legitimate decendance from the sovereign prince, in order of primogeniture with priority to males in case of the same degree of parentage.)
It goes on to mention some other eventualities, but this is the most relevant one. So the constitution doesn't mention anything about religion in relationship with the succession. It might be implied in art. 9 and the fact that the Monegaque sovereign rules by/with the grace of God, but it never says it explicitly. That's a fairytale invented by the tabloids. Here's the whole constitution (in French): http://www.gouv.mc/devwww/wwwnew.nsf...enDocument&3Fr
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Diana had a history of giving up and dropping out from very early on, and it became a pattern as she got older. She seemed to be very lacking in confidence, possibly as a result of her emotionally insecure childhood, which seemed to cause her to run away from challenges rather than to face them. With the swimming, Charlene at least had a goal and did the necessary to try and achieve it. I think it's often hard for athletes who've dedicated a lot of their youth to their training and then they get close to retirement age and the longer-term future suddenly becomes a reality. In some countries things aren't set up so that it's easy to combine education with athletic achievement; it is in the USA, it isn't in England, and I have no idea about South Africa. Diana's lack of education wasn't because she was striving for some other goal, it's because (so her biographers say) she was reading Barbara Cartland novels and hanging out with her friends instead of doing her homework.
It seems that SA doesn't offer much in terms of education and athletes. However, some of Charlene's colleagues are training and studying in the US. She could have done that too if she wanted. I bet (US) universities would have been queueing outside her door to sign her up in 2000, should she have been interested.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Is she still blabbing to the press, or are you referring to interviews she gave last year? Seems as though more than a few girls who hook up with princes give interviews in the excitement of the early relationship and learn their lessons later. Heck, even the Queen Mother spoke to the newspapers after her engagement and ended up getting reprimanded by King George V.
Yes, she is still blabbing to the press. I've posted this before, but a diligent mod deleted it: her last interview dates from July 2007. Not exactly ancient, IMO.
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  #569  
Old 08-04-2007, 02:24 PM
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Think about it if Albert had a problem with Charlene speaking to the press and he spoke to her but she didn't stop how many of you honestly believe she would still be around????? If anyone thinks yes you have the problem not her so I can't see the big deal if he has allowed it. If he thought she was as ugly as some of you say she is and etc she wouldn't be around either especially for this long. She has the ability to learn as noticed with how she looked for the Rose Ball.
  #570  
Old 08-04-2007, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyMacAlpine View Post
Think about it if Albert had a problem with Charlene speaking to the press and he spoke to her but she didn't stop how many of you honestly believe she would still be around????? If anyone thinks yes you have the problem not her so I can't see the big deal if he has allowed it. If he thought she was as ugly as some of you say she is and etc she wouldn't be around either especially for this long. She has the ability to learn as noticed with how she looked for the Rose Ball.
First of all, I don't think that Albert could possibly stop her from talking to the press as she can always claim that they want to talk to her about swimming etc etc. It is not unusual for athletes to talk to the press and Albert knows this. The only thing he has stopped her from doing is to directly relate things about her private life as long as it is with regards to him which is sth she did in the beginning. (Tasha and others have been doing the same, so he is used to it, doesn't mean that he is happy about it though) She does allude to it though but she is getting better at it, though still she mentions that her boyfriend is calling etc. As to her attractiveness, I suppose that tastes are different and ALberts taste is not necessarily other peoples taste. He was with Nicole and Tamara before and I found neither of them particularly attractive, but obviously Albert thought so, so that shows that considering other women he dated, he has a fairly indiscriminate taste in women as long as they measure about 1,70m plus and are slim ad don't need too much chasing. (don't think he ever had one that was short and a little chubby ) And I agree with you absolutely about the Rose ball, that's when she looked absolutely stunning. I'd love to see her like that at every event ... since she was absent there
  #571  
Old 08-04-2007, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
I'm not sure about "no self esteem";
Quote:
when i spoke about sel esteem, Iwas thinking at yacht girls pics... We saw her photo looking at those pics in Nice or Roissy Airport... a man or woman could make "errors" ... Albert's error was a slap on her face and all people and monegasque saw it.
I suppose it's possible to be an international-standard sports star without self esteem, but I don't know that it'd be that common.
Is she still blabbing to the press, or are you referring to interviews she gave last year?
Quote:
i guess she have been told to keep her mouth and dad's mouth closed, when she was 3rd on Telkom event she said that she only trained 3 monthes and before she had said hardly training... some of us elsewhere were joking about jacuzzi training
Seems as though more than a few girls who hook up with princes give interviews in the excitement of the early relationship and learn their lessons later
Quote:
I'm not used in royals...
. Heck, even the Queen Mother spoke to the newspapers after her engagement and ended up getting reprimanded by King George V.
However, yes, it appears that Albert has found himself a companion who, at least on the surface, has more style than substance. But given his history, is anyone surprised? And was anyone really expecting any different? And would that necessarily stop her becoming a viable consort to a prince like Albert?
about viable consort I think she will have to train table manners, not looking directely to camera, no fixed smile, no silly adoration glance.....Here's link to LS Games look at her in the end of video...
  #572  
Old 08-04-2007, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Maybe he should spend some time on this forum. I'm sure we could give him some highly valuable training.
LOL. I think some of Rainier's old advisors Albert reportedly sacked after his enthronement could be more suited and probably willing to take the job...but if he can't find anyone else, I will try to find someone to help him, in honour of the memory of his parents!

ETA: LadyMacalpine, I would agree with your post if it wasn't based on an hypothesis that I consider wrong: that whatever Albert likes is good..he might like Charlene, her behaviour, her way of dressing, but this doesn't make me like them as well, I still have my own opinion about all those things. Which of course have absolutely no bearing on Albert's decisions and actions, but will determine my interest in Monaco and the Princely Family.
  #573  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grace View Post
ETA: LadyMacalpine, I would agree with your post if it wasn't based on an hypothesis that I consider wrong: that whatever Albert likes is good...
Of course, not everything Albert thinks is good but at the end of the day, Albert is the one who will have to go to bed with his wife every night (not any of us) so his ability to remain comfortable with his prospective wife through good times and bad is of paramount importance.

We may prefer a woman like Princess Grace but if that type of woman makes Albert's stomach churn every time he wakes up in the morning, then he will not do us nor himself any favors by marrying a copy of Grace.
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  #574  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lilae View Post
about viable consort I think she will have to train table manners, not looking directely to camera, no fixed smile, no silly adoration glance.....Here's link to LS Games look at her in the end of video...
Oh, I'm sure that can be done if both of them think it's necessary. Most of us would need training in how to negotiate a table full of silverware and how to deal with having cameras in our faces the entire time. I suppose she could get some lessons from Prince Harry about the most effective body parts of a cameraman to kick or punch...

But what's wrong with the adoring glances? I could understand your resevations if she was sticking her tongue out at Albert behind his back or something, but so far I haven't seen evidence of that sort of duplicity.

All of which is assuming that being his consort is part of the agenda anyway, which it might not be.
  #575  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Of course, not everything Albert thinks is good but at the end of the day, Albert is the one who will have to go to bed with his wife every night (not any of us) so his ability to remain comfortable with his prospective wife through good times and bad is of paramount importance.
We may prefer a woman like Princess Grace but if that type of woman makes Albert's stomach churn every time he wakes up in the morning, then he will not do us nor himself any favors by marrying a copy of Grace.
i'm not hoping a "Grace copycat" . It's not good in a couple when mother's image/mind... is between man and woman. I think that if Albert has (one day???) a wife/companion it should be better fot his mind that his wife/companion was different, he would be an aduld instead of a son (not speaking about his lot of mistresses one night...)Mother's image/behaviour/ mind has nothing to do in a couple "mind" JMO
  #576  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Of course, not everything Albert thinks is good but at the end of the day, Albert is the one who will have to go to bed with his wife every night (not any of us) so his ability to remain comfortable with his prospective wife through good times and bad is of paramount importance.

We may prefer a woman like Princess Grace but if that type of woman makes Albert's stomach churn every time he wakes up in the morning, then he will not do us nor himself any favors by marrying a copy of Grace.
Well of course your post is completely right, and it would be really stupid on my part to think my opinion has any influence whatsoever on Albert's decision, first because he will never know what I think, second because what I think doesn't really matter for him, and finally because if he lets the opinion of anyone interfere with his personal decisions he is more immature than I think he is!

This said and cleared, my point is none of us, as far as I know, is Albert's friend, so his marital status can only affect us as fans (for lack of a better word), and his chosen wife will only affect us as her "public". Well, I can write about Charlene on a free forum, but I wouldn't spend my money to buy a mag for her pictures, and I wouldn't go to Monaco for her presence; and it is only in that capacity that my, our, opinion has any value.

Should Albert chose a bride based on public consent? Obviously not!
Can I hope he picks someone that he loves but that will also be good for Monaco like Grace Kelly was, cause I care about the Principality and the Princely Family? If he doesn't, I wish him a very happy life with a wife he hopefully loves, I just won't be interested in their life (which for them might be a huge relief, but also a business loss).

In any case, whether he loves Charlene or not, I still think he is handling the whole issue quite poorly, exposing Charlene to public scrutiny and putting her in an uncomfortable position I would never have accepted...
  #577  
Old 08-04-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elspeth View Post
Oh, I'm sure that can be done if both of them think it's necessary. Most of us would need training in how to negotiate a table full of silverware and how to deal with having cameras in our faces the entire time. I suppose she could get some lessons from Prince Harry about the most effective body parts of a cameraman to kick or punch...
But what's wrong with the adoring glances
Quote:
official event and not an appropriate behaviour.. she's nothing else than one of his mistresses for the moment ..it's a way for her to clain he's mine..;.look at me.
? I could understand your resevations if she was sticking her tongue out at Albert behind his back or something, but so far I haven't seen evidence of that sort of duplicity.
All of which is assuming that being his consort is part of the agenda anyway, which it might not be.
Some monegasque when they saw her on giant screens were making gestures and whispering (i heard!!) paca spoke about whistles, I heard about her ..; il n'a qu'à la laisser à la maison, regarde la meuf qui colle...
  #578  
Old 08-04-2007, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lilae View Post
Some monegasque when they saw her on giant screens were making gestures and whispering (i heard!!) paca spoke about whistles, I heard about her ..; il n'a qu'à la laisser à la maison, regarde la meuf qui colle...
Some British people refer to the Queen as a parasite. You'll never please everyone. As Grace said, Albert's putting Charlene in an uncomfortable position where she has the exposure but not the protection in her current limbo of being his companion without any commitment (that we know of). I didn't see any behaviour of hers in that YouTube clip that was out-of-the-way unacceptable. Apart from the adoring glances, of course, which are fairly nauseating, but Albert might actually quite like being looked at that way.





  #579  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:10 PM
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It's not that the glances are unacceptable...and this is JUST MY OPINION...but it seems like she is trying to hard to prove that she loves Albert for Albert. From what I can tell -- and this is just my observations -- is that she is in love with the lifestyle that being Albert's official companion provides just as much as she is in love with Albert. The million dollar question is, if Albert were an Economics professor, would she find him as attractive? I'm sure this is something Albert has asked himself a bazillion times and I'm sure we'll never know the answer. So unless and until the whole situation falls apart and one of them talks about it, we're just left to scratch our heads and comment from a far just like the rest of the world.

Quick poll to you men in the blogging audience: do those kinds of looks make you feel loved or uncomfortable? From my male friends, most of them said that in public they make them feel uncomfortable. While this may be a little off topic, it just begs to be asked if this is where the discussion is headed.
  #580  
Old 08-04-2007, 09:45 PM
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Well, if I started doing that, my husband would think I'd gone insane. But Ronald Reagan seemed to thrive on the public adulation from Nancy.

Matter of interest, how do you think she'd be behaving differently if she was in love with Albert himself rather than his checkbook?
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