The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal House of Sweden > Crown Princess Victoria, Prince Daniel and Family

Join The Royal Forums Today
View Poll Results: What will it be?
Boy 48 50.00%
Girl 40 41.67%
Twins: Boy & Girl 4 4.17%
Twins: Two Boys 3 3.13%
Twins: Two Girls 1 1.04%
Voters: 96. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #221  
Old 03-06-2016, 09:49 AM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 355
I have referred to Oscar as Baby Bernadotte Westling before his birth because no one knew the sex of the child. Also, I have compared services of Madeleine's children to Estelle's and believe they (Oscar and CP's and Sofia's child) will be different because of location and status of parents. If I recall, the child who is wearing the christening gown has his/her name stitched in as the baby wears it. Who decides which baby wears the gown? (I'm guessing the king.) Each baby would have his (or her) ceremony, and I don't see the king wanting them lumped together.
__________________

  #222  
Old 03-06-2016, 11:45 AM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,010
We gotta wait and see if there will be a double christening or not. It has never happened before in the senior swedish royal family so it has to be considered unlikely until it happens.

In my opinion it would be a good idea to contain the costs.

It doesn't have to be any differences at all in the christening ceremony for the 2 babies. Oscar is the son of the heir to the throne and the new baby will also be a son/daughter to an heir to the throne, though not the immediate heir. They have both the rights to use the Royal Palace Church and the silver font if the parents want to. Madeleines choice to not to had nothing to do with her rank in the family. And the ceremony itself is exactly the same in Sweden wether the baby is a Bernadotte or a Svensson.

Don't think the christening gown would be an issue. There are more than one gowns kept, among them the gown that was used by King Gustaf V and his 3 brothers. And it is actually not the gown but the cape wich was made to the christening of Princess Margaretha in 1934 wich has the names on it. Both babies can wear the cape during the same day. One can have a new cape in the Church and then they can switch to the reception.
__________________

  #223  
Old 03-06-2016, 11:57 AM
xenobia's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Near the artic circle, Sweden
Posts: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Madame Verseau View Post
I have referred to Oscar as Baby Bernadotte Westling before his birth because no one knew the sex of the child. Also, I have compared services of Madeleine's children to Estelle's and believe they (Oscar and CP's and Sofia's child) will be different because of location and status of parents. If I recall, the child who is wearing the christening gown has his/her name stitched in as the baby wears it. Who decides which baby wears the gown? (I'm guessing the king.) Each baby would have his (or her) ceremony, and I don't see the king wanting them lumped together.
So the notion that you repeatedly let your disapproval of Sofia shine through in your posts about the whole Swedish royal family is just a notion?

Don't get me wrong here. I think it's perfectly fine to dislike a royal. You can't love everyone. I don't like them all either. But I try hard to stay away from forums/threads that deals with those that I don't like. There is no need for other readers to be exposed to my negativity, direct or subtle.

As a swede, I'm interested in the historical aspect of our swedish monarchy. I'm not too fond of children in general, but both prince Oscar and his future cousin have interesting places in history. This is especially true if Carl Philip and Sofia have a son, since those who think that the agnatic line to the throne follows Carl Philip and his male offspring. (No, I'm not one of them, but I still find it interesting).

Prince Oscar is also interesting in the historic aspect. He is the first first male child born to a heir(ess) of the throne that isn't going to bypass his elder sister.

Either way, I think that both children are very lucky. Not because they are princes and/or princesses, but because they are born into families with genuinely loving parents that will provide the best they can for them (not just financially). They also have many other family members around that will give them love and attention, no matter if they are third or fifth in line to the throne. And in the end of the day, that's really all that matters.
  #224  
Old 03-06-2016, 12:11 PM
Madame Verseau's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Louisville, United States
Posts: 355
Agnatic line doesn't matter now. Birth order primogeniture is the rule of thumb, regardless of gender. That was established in 1980. I'm seeing the argument for the agnatic line as an dissatisfaction of the Riksdag's decision, a desire to go back to male primogeniture. Although it may not be the intention, but it tends to undermine Victoria as future sovereign and to an extent Estelle.
  #225  
Old 03-06-2016, 12:15 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Swedish law designates that Estelle Westling will -Deo Volente- become Queen of Sweden one day. So be it. That does not take away the unique position of a future son of Prince Carl Philip: he still will be the procreation of the agnatic, dynastical line of the Bernadottes, directly descending from all Kings of his House.
Unfortunate to those people who cling desperately as if life depended on it to the agnatic laws, it is no longer an Unique position. CP's child is fifth in line for the throne, and the only way that changes is to go further down. He doesn't even hold the honor of first grandson, Nicolas does. Estelle and Oscar descend just as much from the kings of Sweden, just through their mother.

Quote:
Don't think the christening gown would be an issue. There are more than one gowns kept, among them the gown that was used by King Gustaf V and his 3 brothers. And it is actually not the gown but the cape wich was made to the christening of Princess Margaretha in 1934 wich has the names on it. Both babies can wear the cape during the same day. One can have a new cape in the Church and then they can switch to the reception.
I don't know if they would use the gown again. Its quite old and was likely put in to the armory to preserve it. Thinking of the British one that they had to make a replica of some years ago to preserve the original.

Yes, they could change the cape between ceremony and reception, but the baptism itself is the main event, the most important part. Its the part that matters. IMO there would be no question Oscar would get to wear it, he is the son of the Crown Princess, and is third in line. That would mean CP's child would be the only grandchild not baptized wearing it.

Honestly I think CP and Sofia will want separate. Even if a smaller scale to lower costs. Their child will be over shadowed by Oscar sadly due to their positions. CP's child deserves to have their own spotlight for one day and get to wear the baptismal gown/cloak of his/her cousins.
  #226  
Old 03-06-2016, 12:53 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: -, Antarctica
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Swedish law designates that Estelle Westling will -Deo Volente- become Queen of Sweden one day. So be it. That does not take away the unique position of a future son of Prince Carl Philip: he still will be the procreation of the agnatic, dynastical line of the Bernadottes, directly descending from all Kings of his House.
Isn't it time to stop propagating for the superiority of the male line??? Thankfully the Swedish Government and Riksdag changed the laws back in 1977, and no child of Carl Philip and his spouse will become monarchs in Sweden. (And without genetic testing, the only true line one can follow is that between a mother and her daughter.)
  #227  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:00 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meraude View Post
Isn't it time to stop propagating for the superiority of the male line??? Thankfully the Swedish Government and Riksdag changed the laws back in 1977, and no child of Carl Philip and his spouse will become monarchs in Sweden. (And without genetic testing, the only true line one can follow is that between a mother and her daughter.)
Prince Carl Philip is still in line to succeed to the throne. Only a plane crash - God forbid - is needed for him to become King of Sweden one day.

Personally, I think it was unfair to strip him from his birthright, and that the change in the succession rules shouldn't have been retroactive. But there's no reason to cry over spilled milk, and I'm sure the Crown Princess will be an outstanding Queen for Sweden.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
  #228  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:10 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 3,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by xenobia View Post
tle.

As a swede, I'm interested in the historical aspect of our swedish monarchy. I'm not too fond of children in general, but both prince Oscar and his future cousin have interesting places in history. This is especially true if Carl Philip and Sofia have a son, since those who think that the agnatic line to the throne follows Carl Philip and his male offspring. (No, I'm not one of them, but I still find it interesting).

Prince Oscar is also interesting in the historic aspect. He is the first first male child born to a heir(ess) of the throne that isn't going to bypass his elder sister.
It is also the first time since the birth of Prince Vilhelm in 1884 that the Crown Prince has a scond child who is in line of succession. When Prince Sigvard was born in 1907 his father was not yet the Crown Prince.
  #229  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:12 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 3,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
Prince Carl Philip is still in line to succeed to the throne. Only a plane crash - God forbid - is needed for him to become King of Sweden one day.
Don't know if it is also the case in Sweden but in Denmark Crown prince Frederik and Prince Christian don't fly in the same plane. And trhe same is done in the UK. Prince Charles and Prince William don't fly together.
  #230  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:15 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
Don't know if it is also the case in Sweden but in Denmark Crown prince Frederik and Prince Christian don't fly in the same plane. And trhe same is done in the UK. Prince Charles and Prince William don't fly together.
True, but I think they only start to travel in different planes when the children are older. Didn't Prince George travel in the same plane as his parents when they went to Australia and New Zealand?

I suppose Princess Estelle still travels with her mother, though they will certainly travel in different planes in the future.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
  #231  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:28 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 3,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cris M View Post
True, but I think they only start to travel in different planes when the children are older. Didn't Prince George travel in the same plane as his parents when they went to Australia and New Zealand?
I think it was said when the Queen Mother had died that the Queen had to give special permsission that Charles William and Harry could fly back in the same plane.
  #232  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:32 PM
Cris M's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Niterói, Brazil
Posts: 847
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
I think it was said when the Queen Mother had died that the Queen had to give special permsission that Charles William and Harry could fly back in the same plane.
Yes, but Princes William and Harry were in their late teens, I'm talking specifically about young children, like Prince George and Princess Estelle.

I don't know when Prince Christian started travelling separately from his father.
__________________
“If a thousand thrones I had, I would give a thousand thrones to get the slaves free in Brazil."

Princess Isabel (1846-1921), Princess Imperial and Regent of the Empire of Brazil, after she signed the Golden Law, in 1888, abolishing slavery in Brazil.
  #233  
Old 03-06-2016, 01:40 PM
Gentry
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Wandering around the, United States
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
Swedish law designates that Estelle Westling will -Deo Volente- become Queen of Sweden one day. So be it. That does not take away the unique position of a future son of Prince Carl Philip: he still will be the procreation of the agnatic, dynastical line of the Bernadottes, directly descending from all Kings of his House.
You keep blabbing on about this, so I have a question for you. Who is the equivalent "super male" in the British Royal Family? Or the Dutch? Or the Danish? Or any other monarchy that has (God forbid!!!) had a woman serve as monarch? The truth is the line rests in the monarch and no place else. Prince Carl Philip will take his place along with all the other second children of a monarch who then become a sibling to a monarch. No part of the future line will remain with him besides what currently does.
  #234  
Old 03-06-2016, 02:20 PM
JR76's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneugeba View Post
You keep blabbing on about this, so I have a question for you. Who is the equivalent "super male" in the British Royal Family? Or the Dutch? Or the Danish? Or any other monarchy that has (God forbid!!!) had a woman serve as monarch? The truth is the line rests in the monarch and no place else. Prince Carl Philip will take his place along with all the other second children of a monarch who then become a sibling to a monarch. No part of the future line will remain with him besides what currently does.

Had UK followed the Salic law of male primogeniture the current Duke of Gloucester would've been king. He's also the senior male member of the House of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha.
Had male primogeniture not been changed by popular vote in Denmark in 1953 the current monarch would be Count Ingolf of Rosenborg.
The Netherlands would still have the same monarch since King Willem-Alexander is the senior descendant of the old House of Orange-Nassau of his generation.



Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
  #235  
Old 03-06-2016, 02:21 PM
Stefan's Avatar
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Esslingen, Germany
Posts: 3,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
Had UK followed the Salic law of male primogeniture the current Duke of Gloucester would've been king. He's also the senior male member of the House of Sachsen-Coburg-Gotha.




Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
But then Queen Victoria would never have become Queen and the present King would be Prince Ernst August of Hannover.
  #236  
Old 03-06-2016, 02:22 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,475
Ridiculous concept of clinging to 'the pure line' But to answer:

Dutch: I don't know if even a purist could find one to exist. The last prince born before WA was his namesake,Queen Wilhemina's older half brother who was born in the 1850's. Queen Wilhemina's three brothers died without heirs before their father. William II (her grandfather) only had one son who had children, William III. William I had two sons who had children, but his other son Frederick had only had 2 sons and they both died in childhood. You'd have to go back to the Princes of Orange, before there was a king of the Netherlands,to determine if there was an unbroken male line to follow. Maybe someone who actually cares about this agnatic mentality would actually bother to go further, I don't.

British: have had more than one reigning queen, so question how far back would we need to go. The male line certainly been broken many times. The most recent would be simple enough. If agnatic, instead of Elizabeth being queen, the throne would have passed to her uncle Henry, Duke of Gloucester. When he died the current Duke of Gloucester with Alexander as Prince of Wales and his son Xan after him. But then again George V is descended from Victoria, so if Elizabeth shouldn't have been queen, either should have Victoria. If Victoria had not been queen, the throne would have followed the same path as the other family titles. The Hannoverian titles could not be inherited by a woman so were inherited instead by Victoria's Uncle Ernest Augustus. The throne would have passed the same. It would mean Prince Ernst August (husband of Caroline of Monaco) would be king of the UK,and his eldest son Prince Ernst August would be Prince of Wales. But then again the Hannoverians only came to the throne due to the female line. So honestly who knows?? better question who cares???

Denmark: The throne would have passed to Prince Knud of Denmark instead of his niece Margrethe. The problem is both Knud's sons lost their place in succession,only his daughter retained their titles. If their father had been king, it is quite possible the marriages would have been approved by their father to maintain their place in succession. Count Ignolff would have been king after his father, but he has no children. And his brother Christian only has daughters. You would have to back a generation,to the brothers of Christian X (father of Knud and Margrethe's father). The next brother was King Haakon of Norway. Meaning the direct male line would bring us to Haakon and Sverre Magnus.
  #237  
Old 03-06-2016, 02:23 PM
JR76's Avatar
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stefan View Post
But then Queen Victoria would never have become Queen and the present King would be Prince Ernst August of Hannover.

Whoops, you're right!!


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community mobile app
  #238  
Old 03-06-2016, 02:46 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,475
But George I would never have been King either. George I came to the throne through not 1 but 2 females. He got his claim to the British throne by being a great-grandson of James I. But through James' daughter Elizabeth who was the mother of George's mother Sophia. And the Stewarts came to the throne through not 1 but 2 females as well (Mary queen of Scots and her paternal grandmother who was a sister of Henry VIII). After Edward VII died, the throne would never have passed to either sister or his father's sisters and their lines. But then again Henry VII got his claim through his mother, and it was strengthened by his wife's claim.
  #239  
Old 03-06-2016, 03:19 PM
Ish's Avatar
Ish Ish is online now
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Vancouver, Canada
Posts: 2,957
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneugeba View Post
You keep blabbing on about this, so I have a question for you. Who is the equivalent "super male" in the British Royal Family? Or the Dutch? Or the Danish? Or any other monarchy that has (God forbid!!!) had a woman serve as monarch? The truth is the line rests in the monarch and no place else. Prince Carl Philip will take his place along with all the other second children of a monarch who then become a sibling to a monarch. No part of the future line will remain with him besides what currently does.

Britain - the Duke of Gloucester
Netherlands - There are no purely male line descendants of William I of the Netherlands
Denmark - By birth alone, Count Ignolf of Rosenborg. If you accept that he (and his brother) renounced their rights in order to marry, then the line goes to Harald V of Norway (providing his grandfather, Haakon VII didn't also renounce his rights when he became King of Norway). Removing him you have Constantine II of Greece (provided again that his grandfather, George I, didn't renounce his rights). Removing him it becomes very complicated as all other male descendants of Christian IX come from lines that have renounced their succession rights, and Christian came to the throne through more reasons than just blood.
  #240  
Old 03-06-2016, 03:26 PM
Countessmeout's Avatar
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,475
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish View Post
Britain - the Duke of Gloucester
Netherlands - There are no purely male line descendants of William I of the Netherlands
Denmark - By birth alone, Count Ignolf of Rosenborg. If you accept that he (and his brother) renounced their rights in order to marry, then the line goes to Harald V of Norway (providing his grandfather, Haakon VII didn't also renounce his rights when he became King of Norway). Removing him you have Constantine II of Greece (provided again that his grandfather, George I, didn't renounce his rights). Removing him it becomes very complicated as all other male descendants of Christian IX come from lines that have renounced their succession rights, and Christian came to the throne through more reasons than just blood.
But how would the Duke of Gloucester? He comes to the throne through Victoria? Victoria comes to the throne from George I who inherited it via his grandmother and mother?
__________________

Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Madeleine & Chris's 2nd Child: Guess the Sex, Name, Godparents and Duchy principessa Princess Madeleine, Chris O'Neill and Family 131 10-06-2015 11:51 AM
Charlene & Albert's Twins - Guess the Sex, Names and Godparents iceflower Prince Albert, Princess Charlene and Family 374 05-10-2015 11:53 AM
Guess the Sex and Name of Floris and Aimee's Second Child QUEENECE29 Princess Margriet, Prof. van Vollenhoven and Family 17 06-12-2009 05:56 PM




Popular Tags
april 2016 ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge duchess of cornwall's fashion dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece kate middleton king abdullah ii king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess marie princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats princess victoria celebrates her 39th birthday queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania queen rania in the uk queen rania in the us royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark state visit to norway succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:33 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises