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  #421  
Old 07-09-2012, 05:13 AM
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But I do "get it" Iluvbertie. It is quite clear what point you are trying to make. But I do not agree with your premise that supposed sporting allegiances are an important enough reason to change our constitution, especially as the Governor-General can quite easily fulfil these symbolic functions (indeed she already does when travelling overseas). Nobody has come up with a viable alternative to the Queen and the Governor-General that convinces me that such a change would be of any real benefit. So you can go on and on about sporting events all you like; it is of no import to me whatsoever. As to the World Cup, if it was something to do with rugby we are better off without it. After all rugby is just some girly game they play up north; nothing in it for Victoria.
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  #422  
Old 07-09-2012, 07:39 AM
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As what we teach is set by the governments of each state, and now the federal government with the national curriculum it is clear that this anti-British history push is coming from governments - of both persuasions.
Yes, I agree. I don't blame the teachers per se. It needs to be changed at a curriculum level (in my opinion of course).

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The push is for more Asian history as that is seen as more relevant to Australia in the future.
Well this is something I also contest, I would also ague that we have more to gain from maintaining and reinforcing our ties with Britain than trying to forge new relationships with Asian countries but that is a whole other topic of discussion.

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History only gets 50 hours a year in NSW high schools and we do more than any other state - and even the new national curriculum which suggests 80 hours is only getting 50 in NSW and less in the other states has virtually no mention of British history - because the governments don't want that taught.

Whether it is a republic by stealth or whether it is truly reflective of the changing nature of the nation I don't know but the Queen is totally irrelevant to us in Australia today. Think about the fact that in a couple of weeks she and her family will be at the Olympics cheering on the defeat of Australian teams in events - and then tell me that we need her - her own granddaughter is competing against us.
Well I don't have a problem with that at all, I would expect the Queen to support England at a sporting event, she is English. I don't see that as anything of any consequence. You use this as an example of her irrelevance today but it has been like that ever since Australia has existed.

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As for the comment about God - only 19% might be of no religion but the other 81% don't all believe in the same god. I teach at a Christian school and we obviously have students who believe in the Christian God but we also have students who believe in a myriad of other gods - as the Hindus have over 3000 which god to they include in the oath??
Which ever one they like, all of them or none at all. Like I said, it could be made optional. Does you school remove all references to God, religious classes and ceremonies because some of the students don't believe in the same God as Christians do?

I am the opposite of you Iluvbertie, I was a republican and the more I have learned about the royal family and our history and ties with the monarchy I have gradually become a monarchist! Even when I went through school (which was quite a few years ago ) the Queen was never mentioned and I, like school children today, grew up thinking she was irelevant. Over time I have educated myself about Australian and British history (partially through travel) and now have a better appreciation of the worth of the Queen to Australia.

But I wonder if this is a chicken or the egg situation? Should we get rid of her as our head of state because she is irrelevant to Australians, or is she irrelevant because we have gradually marginalised her in Australian culture?

As for a President who is Australian, it would end up being a political appointment. Who would we have; people like Bob Hawke, Gough Whitlam, Paul Keating, John Howard - all ex-pollies. (or maybe we could have a popular vote then we might end up with Kylie Minogue or Warnie? ). I would rather stick with the Queen.

One other thing (last one I promise ) . We are always being told that everyone wants a republic and we don't care about the monarchy anymore and yet whenever we have a royal visit a lot of people turn out and it gets a lot of media coverage. An online poll about the changes to to Girl Guides pledge was running at 70% against the changes. I really question whether the argument that most people don't respect the Queen and want a republic really reflects the majoruity of opinion at the moment. My feeling is that attitudes towards the monarchy are swinging back in favour of maintaining the status quo.
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  #423  
Old 02-13-2013, 12:45 PM
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I am centre-left in many ways but a constitutional monarchist to boot.

Personally I think the best way of arguing for our current constitutional arrangements is actually taking the monarchy out of the equation.

Our current precedent is that our Governors-General are appointed from a pool of people that are low risk in the sense that their past isn't marred in politics, they aren't heavy hitters in commerce and therefore have no business connections to be repaid or special interests to serve, or be perceived to serve.

Isn't it desirable that our head of state is drawn from a pool of what you could call life long public servants; in the form of academia, the judiciary or armed services? People who have performed charitable duties before their names were known to the public?

The fact the average Australian doesn't know the name of the Governor General doesn't worry me. In my opinion our head of state serves three purposes; custodian of the constitution, international representative and community worker; in the sense that they foster dialogue and inclusion within our regional, disadvantaged and indigenous communities. That role needs not be pretentious.

Only in our system of government could the Governor of NSW's term be extended three times. As a twenty something New South Welshman the causes our Governor has served many of my friends, my community and our country at large. She has fought or youth mental illness, gay health and aboriginal issues for decades. Unpopular and not glamorous. But for the greater good.

Thankfully, our system of government allows these quiet and purposeful deeds to be undertaken on a daily basis.

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  #424  
Old 07-17-2013, 05:37 PM
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And the republican in me becomes just that little bit more determined.

'She gave a little fist pump' Queen shows her loyalty as she hails Ashes win over Aussies | Royal | News | Daily Express
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  #425  
Old 07-17-2013, 05:52 PM
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Makes two of us.
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  #426  
Old 07-17-2013, 05:53 PM
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Well, we are all wondering why you Aussies don't just sort yourselves out ??? Nobody is stopping you !

For a nation that claims to be 'get up and go', you seem pretty rubbish at 'getting up & going', in this instance !
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  #427  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:18 PM
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Well, we are all wondering why you Aussies don't just sort yourselves out ??? Nobody is stopping you !

For a nation that claims to be 'get up and go', you seem pretty rubbish at 'getting up & going', in this instance !
Seriously?! You can't really get up and go when it comes to republicanism you do know that right? Plus what does it matter to you?
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  #428  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:47 PM
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Well, we are all wondering why you Aussies don't just sort yourselves out ??? Nobody is stopping you !

For a nation that claims to be 'get up and go', you seem pretty rubbish at 'getting up & going', in this instance !

Just because there are a number of people who want a republic and there are various figures out there showing support from about 50% to 65% the republicans can't agree on the form of republic.

We will sort it out - when we are ready - and not in the present reign - that has virtually been agreed by the major parties.

When Charles becomes King he will be King of Australia but by the time he is actually crowned it is possible that he won't be.
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  #429  
Old 07-17-2013, 08:58 PM
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I'm neither an Aussie nor a republican, but it's stories like this that make me understand why people from outside of England question their continued relationship with the crown.
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  #430  
Old 07-18-2013, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Makes two of us.
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I'm neither an Aussie nor a republican, but it's stories like this that make me understand why people from outside of England question their continued relationship with the crown.
I am sure the Queen is acutely aware of her responsibilities to both the UK and Australia, and is unlikely to leave herself open to criticism by acting in a matter that may reveal the country she supports in a sport of this type. How many 87 years olds do you see giving a "little fist pump"? IMO, this could just be some old codger trying to get his sound bite into the news.
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  #431  
Old 07-18-2013, 05:19 AM
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I'm neither an Aussie nor a republican, but it's stories like this that make me understand why people from outside of England question their continued relationship with the crown.
Journalists making a story out of nothing. No guarantee this is true.
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  #432  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:14 PM
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But it could be true, and it should perfectly reasonable for an Englishwoman to be happy her country's team beat another country's team. Whether or not she actually gave a little fist pump, the article once more raises the fact that HM is not just the Queen of the UK, she is also Queen of Australia and our head of State, and our head of state should not be celebrating another country's victory over us in a sporting event. Her role as Queen of so many realms places her in a position of unavoidable conflict over such matters, and it's no more fair on her than it is on us. It's time we got our own head of state.
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  #433  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:17 PM
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But it could be true, and it should perfectly reasonable for an Englishwoman to be happy her country's team beat another country's team. Whether or not she actually gave a little fist pump, the article once more raises the fact that HM is not just the Queen of the UK, she is also Queen of Australia and our head of State, and our head of state should not be celebrating another country's victory over us in a sporting event. Her role as Queen of so many realms places her in a position of unavoidable conflict over such matters, and it's no more fair on her than it is on us. It's time we got our own head of state.
So you believe it? I don't. she never, never forgets that she is Queen of the 16 realms, in the same way she always supports the Commonwealth overall.

You know that she supports the realms, and you are preferring to believe 2 old boys (actually I think 1 old boy and his mate not disagreeing in front of a journalist) egged on by a journalist.

Of the 2 scenarios, I think mine, based on history, is more likely.
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  #434  
Old 07-18-2013, 06:36 PM
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But it could be true, and it should perfectly reasonable for an Englishwoman to be happy her country's team beat another country's team. Whether or not she actually gave a little fist pump, the article once more raises the fact that HM is not just the Queen of the UK, she is also Queen of Australia and our head of State, and our head of state should not be celebrating another country's victory over us in a sporting event. Her role as Queen of so many realms places her in a position of unavoidable conflict over such matters, and it's no more fair on her than it is on us. It's time we got our own head of state.
No one in the UK is stopping you guys. You need to figure out what you want and just do it. Frankly I would hope you could find a better reason though than losing The Ashes and getting upset because the Queen of the UK, in the UK, congratulated the winning team while also meeting with both teams.
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  #435  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:45 PM
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She has no right to congratulate a team that defeated Australia in anything as she is Queen of Australia.

That is the point - she can't congratulate ONE realm when it defeats any other realm at all - ever as in doing so she is showing bias against another realm.

She has regularly shown this bias - which is natural - but it is also wrong.

She has allowed her grandson to actively campaign AGAINST Australia for the rights for England to host the World Cup - that was wrong and she should never have allowed that unless The Queen of Australia was in favour of Australia losing - which she so clearly is.
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  #436  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:56 PM
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If the President of Australia was there I would have expected him to also congratulate the winning team, it is just good manners after all.
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  #437  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:56 PM
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She has no right to congratulate a team that defeated Australia in anything as she is Queen of Australia.

That is the point - she can't congratulate ONE realm when it defeats any other realm at all - ever as in doing so she is showing bias against another realm.

She has regularly shown this bias - which is natural - but it is also wrong.

She has allowed her grandson to actively campaign AGAINST Australia for the rights for England to host the World Cup - that was wrong and she should never have allowed that unless The Queen of Australia was in favour of Australia losing - which she so clearly is.
If this sports nonsense is getting Australia so riled up (don't quite understand why frankly) then shouldn't there be a greater republican sentiment to push forward this republican outcome? It seems not many people are that bothered. I bet more than half of Australia don't even know about this story.
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  #438  
Old 07-18-2013, 07:56 PM
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No one in the UK is stopping you guys. You need to figure out what you want and just do it. Frankly I would hope you could find a better reason though than losing The Ashes and getting upset because the Queen of the UK, in the UK, congratulated the winning team while also meeting with both teams.
Are you a Canadian with a base in London, or a Londoner with a base in Canada? I suspect the former, because I doubt any Englishman would so underestimate the importance of Ashes cricket.

Sadly it's not up to me, it's up the government, and our government really has more important things to do than deal with this issue and I would not suggest for one moment that they give it priority above more important things. One day the time will be right, and if Australians can wrap their brains around the different models favoured by the different republican factions and reach agreement on the form of a republic for us to have, it will happen. But it's things like this that draw attention to the issue. Over the years the two countries have gradually, and naturally, drifted apart, and this separation has been formalised in various pieces of legislation, but we are still stuck with being in the situation where we cannot give a State Banquet for the UK Monarch when she visits as the UK Head of State, because she is also our Head of State. It's time to make the separation final and permanent.
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  #439  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:08 PM
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Are you a Canadian with a base in London, or a Londoner with a base in Canada? I suspect the former, because I doubt any Englishman would so underestimate the importance of Ashes cricket.

Sadly it's not up to me, it's up the government, and our government really has more important things to do than deal with this issue and I would not suggest for one moment that they give it priority above more important things. One day the time will be right, and if Australians can wrap their brains around the different models favoured by the different republican factions and reach agreement on the form of a republic for us to have, it will happen. But it's things like this that draw attention to the issue. Over the years the two countries have gradually, and naturally, drifted apart, and this separation has been formalised in various pieces of legislation, but we are still stuck with being in the situation where we cannot give a State Banquet for the UK Monarch when she visits as the UK Head of State, because she is also our Head of State. It's time to make the separation final and permanent.
Well a banquet is not a very good reason either.
To answer your question....English born and bred, with a part time base in Toronto.
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  #440  
Old 07-18-2013, 08:17 PM
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Well a banquet is not a very good reason either.
To answer your question....English born and bred, with a part time base in Toronto.
So, just not a cricket fan?

This issue only arises occasionally these days, and mainly in relation to sporting events, because the Queen really doesn't have any significant role in the running of our country and it's only at times like this that the issue crystalises.
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