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  #201  
Old 01-16-2008, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by norwegianne View Post
Just a quick point. It's not uncommon for "regular" people to bring their children with them if they are going somewhere interesting abroad - and the child is sufficiently aged to not require constant minding by the adult. In the past, I've gone with my Dad on trips with his work - and it worked out perfectly fine. I've stayed occupied while he fulfilled the work-portion of the event and we had fun exploring together after it was done. It has been similar for quite a few friends of mine - whose parents work in a broad range of careers. The extra costs of having an additional person along is covered by the person bringing the person, whether it be child or spouse.

Andrew and Beatrice here, to me, aren't doing anything out of the ordinary. *shrugs*
The trouble is they are not 'regular' people. As members of the royal family, they have to be seen to be earning the right to their 'elevated' position. If they want to be seen as 'regular people', then go out and get proper jobs. On top of the extra costs for his daughter, UK taxpayers will also have paid for their bodyguards to go and no mention is made of the cost of their flights being paid.

A lot of UK companies, the civil service and MOD do not allow the spouse or children to accompany a parent on business trips.

I remember having this discussion with Ysbel, who also didn't see any harm using an official trip as a paid holiday, as I said, if it was a secretary or another employee and I found out that I had paid for them to spend an extra day on 'holiday', they would be replaced. Not an option we have at the moment with Andrew or his daughter, but I do feel that with his arroganct behaviour, he will push the staunchest supporter to call for a change.
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  #202  
Old 01-16-2008, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The trouble is they are not 'regular' people. As members of the royal family, they have to be seen to be earning the right to their 'elevated' position. If they want to be seen as 'regular people', then go out and get proper jobs.
I don't think it's as easy as that! I'm not sure any of the royals feel they have the option to just "quit" the monarchy.

I can't really judge the royal family by some special standard, because they are regular people. They just happened to be born into a wealthy privileged family. I look at it this way: as a member of a first world country, I might not be rich by my country's standards, but I lead a wealthier and more comfortable life than the majority of the world's population. So I should be especially careful not to waste the blessings I have, and to be generous towards those less fortunate--right? Well yes, and I try to do that, but I take a lot for granted, and I'm sure people in third world countries would think I led an extremely wasteful life at times.

Basically I can't judge the royal family by a standard other than the one I judge myself and my society by. From what I've seen Andrew works hard, tries to give his daughter an educational yet fun experience by bringing her to work with him, and enjoys his (perhaps expensive by our standards but not by the standards he's used to) hobbies in his leisure time. Okay, he's not perfect, he could make better use of his (actually the taxpayer's) resources at times, but given the circumstances he finds himself in I don't find Andrew's behaviour outrageously wasteful.
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  #203  
Old 01-16-2008, 08:12 PM
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I agree w rmay286. Do we know that the taxpayers are covering the cost of Pss B's trip or is that coming out of Andrew's personal account? And the figures being quoted are not just for Prince Andrew and his perks. They cover other staff members as well. As for any businessman doing what Andrew does, in theory that's a good point but in reality there wouldn't be quite the turnout, support, attention and interest if Average Joe Citizen were attending as there is with a Royal Prince attending. So his mere presence at some of these events brings to light the issues, businesses, etc. he's helping to promote. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. Once again I'll say, Royalty Sells.
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  #204  
Old 01-17-2008, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
I agree w rmay286. Do we know that the taxpayers are covering the cost of Pss B's trip or is that coming out of Andrew's personal account? And the figures being quoted are not just for Prince Andrew and his perks. They cover other staff members as well. As for any businessman doing what Andrew does, in theory that's a good point but in reality there wouldn't be quite the turnout, support, attention and interest if Average Joe Citizen were attending as there is with a Royal Prince attending. So his mere presence at some of these events brings to light the issues, businesses, etc. he's helping to promote. I'm sorry but that's just the way it is. Once again I'll say, Royalty Sells.
I think as Andrew's spokesman has made a point of saying he has paid for her flights, it would indicate that he is not paying for any of her other costs. It is also the reason they suddenly came up with the 'training her for royal duties'.

The figures being quoted are just for Andrew, as you will have seen if you read the articles, by his own admission 500,000GBP this year.
Quote:
and defends the cost of his travels
The difference between Andrew and any other businessman, is that the businessman can be dismissed.
The only attention Andrew gets is when he manages yet again, by a mere fluke, to be attending an event for the T&I at the same time as a golf tournament. The only difference this time from his undisputed newspaper title, he is managing to show his daughter, that you can con taxpayers
into paying for your holidays!

I can only hope Beatrice and Eugenie realise that this sort of behaviour is going to make them as unpopular as their parents are in the UK, IMO.
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  #205  
Old 01-17-2008, 12:16 PM
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Well, if the $500K is just for him, that is quite high I will say. But do you really think he's deliberately trying to "con" the British taxpayers in to footing the bill for personal holidays? The golf tournament thing does seem more than a bit coincidental. But maybe it's like you mentioned in another post: maybe his host country/region has put on the tournament in his honor knowing he's a golf buff. I dunno . . . I've heard many stories from ppl who have met him that he is indeed a pompous ass, but then you hear stories of his genuine concern and professionalism so I guess we won't know really if he's the sort to really take advantage of his situation or if he's just getting bad press.
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  #206  
Old 01-17-2008, 06:37 PM
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Smile

Well I agree with Bella that 500K pounds seems high. As for the golf tournament, however, it might be "more than a bit coincidental", but at the same time, Andrew has to meet with various foreign officials, all of whom I imagine have schedules of their own. Suppose UKTI says to Andrew, "We want you to go to Egypt but such-and-such an official will only be available on such-and-such-a-date." I doubt Andrew would say, "Well I am sorry, there is no golf tournament taking place at that time, therefore I won't go." If he point-blank refused to go on trips where he couldn't enjoy a golf tournament on the side, my opinion of him would definitely drop, and so would that of many other people. That's why I doubt Andrew is playing games like that; if so I doubt he would keep his role as British trade ambassador for long.

On the other hand, if Andrew tries to coincide his foreign trips with golf tournaments and it doesn't inconvenience anyone else's schedule, I don't see it as so bad. Especially if the taxpayer isn't paying directly for any golf-related expenses.

I've also heard varying stories of Andrew--that he can be arrogant but also quite kind-hearted and attentive. So I have a feeling he's a human being like the rest of us...has his good points and bad!
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  #207  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
The trouble is they are not 'regular' people. As members of the royal family, they have to be seen to be earning the right to their 'elevated' position. If they want to be seen as 'regular people', then go out and get proper jobs. On top of the extra costs for his daughter, UK taxpayers will also have paid for their bodyguards to go and no mention is made of the cost of their flights being paid.

A lot of UK companies, the civil service and MOD do not allow the spouse or children to accompany a parent on business trips.
But a lot of companies do. I've worked in family-run companies and its staggering the waste that goes on. Some of the extra expense is charitable like escorting the son with multiple sclerosis of the retired CEO on a private first class jet from Berlin to Los Angeles to get the best medical care available as my first boss did. And this company was not a private family enterprise but the 3rd largest chemical company in Germany at the time.

However, one wonders if the son of someone not so important would deem the privilege of a first class flight and the best medical care available.

My personal belief is that once a country holds a royal prince up to a profit and loss balance sheet, then the country has no need for royal princes any more.
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  #208  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:27 AM
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Also while I am on it, I am a sales trainer in a financial service company and our company has a $100 limit on spending on one of our clients in a year handed down by the law. That means in New York, that its almost impossible for our sales reps to get their fave clients Yankee tickets.

But there is a workaround. The $100 limit doesn't apply if our rep attends the game with them. So what do you think our guys do? They buy tickets for themselves and their clients and their clients families and they all enjoy the game.

So our reps are not going to Yankee games just because they want a free game onthe company money but its the only way to offer a perk to an important client without getting in trouble with the law.
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  #209  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:25 PM
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Perks are very important in business. The more valuable the client, the bigger the perk. I'm sure Prince Andrew - for the British taxpayers - don't pay for much when he's on a biz trip for his country. As I've said before, I'm almost certain most of the perks the Prince enjoys are put on the visiting host's tab.
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  #210  
Old 01-18-2008, 07:41 PM
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I applaud Prince Andrew taking Beatrice to Egypt with him. Princess Beatrice will have to do her round of Royal Engagements after she finishes Uni anyway, and it is an ideal start of the learning curve for her. I honed skills with the public by observing my father do them - so why exactly are we being so hard on Beatrice???
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  #211  
Old 01-18-2008, 07:46 PM
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Because we're all very sad individuals who seem to value our hard earned money. How silly we are.
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  #212  
Old 01-18-2008, 08:35 PM
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I don't see why they need taxpayer money all the time...if they want to fly private...use your own money fools...that includes unnecessary bodyguards. Britney Spears doesn't even have one anymore...I think they can survive...

They're rich...sometimes they act like they're are just servants to the people.
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  #213  
Old 01-18-2008, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
Also while I am on it, I am a sales trainer in a financial service company and our company has a $100 limit on spending on one of our clients in a year handed down by the law. That means in New York, that its almost impossible for our sales reps to get their fave clients Yankee tickets.

But there is a workaround. The $100 limit doesn't apply if our rep attends the game with them. So what do you think our guys do? They buy tickets for themselves and their clients and their clients families and they all enjoy the game.

So our reps are not going to Yankee games just because they want a free game onthe company money but its the only way to offer a perk to an important client without getting in trouble with the law.
ysbel

I was extremely complimentary about one of your earlier posts.


How exactly is the above pertinent to the British tax-payer when we resent Andrew and his family free-loading?
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  #214  
Old 01-18-2008, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Camsterlaird View Post
I applaud Prince Andrew taking Beatrice to Egypt with him. Princess Beatrice will have to do her round of Royal Engagements after she finishes Uni anyway, and it is an ideal start of the learning curve for her. I honed skills with the public by observing my father do them - so why exactly are we being so hard on Beatrice???
Imho we've only heard about this nonsense of 'training' because of all the earlier bad publicity about someone who's never done a day's work in her life requiring £250 000 of 'protection'.

Most late teenagers get up off their backsides and actually do something. Sadly Beatrice apparently does not have that ability or level of maturity to do such a thing.
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  #215  
Old 01-18-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by zembla View Post
I don't see why they need taxpayer money all the time...if they want to fly private...use your own money fools...that includes unnecessary bodyguards. Britney Spears doesn't even have one anymore...I think they can survive...

They're rich...sometimes they act like they're are just servants to the people.
Are you for real???? Comparing members of the BRF to skanky loser Britney Spears? I think you're on the wrong site. The Royals are more than just rich people. To many they represent an entire country/history/culture. They are not just "celebrities", though this younger generation seems to behave like them. You can't compare royalty to some actor/musician/businessman. It goes much deeper than that.
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  #216  
Old 01-21-2008, 06:48 AM
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The public's annoyance about the expense of security for Beatrice is just not going to go away.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...protect-Royals

From article above

''The total cost of security would have included about £12,000 on business class flights for the officers, who stay in five-star hotels with their charges and are understood to receive £120 a day in expenses on top of their wages. The revelation comes after security sources complained of being treated as “chauffeurs and gofers” by party-loving young Royals like Beatrice when they go globetrotting and nightclubbing.''

''Retired chief superintendent Dai Davies said: “Yet again they are showing a total disregard for the public purse at a time when resources are stretched.''

''But it hasn’t been all work for Andrew, who found time in his busy schedule to attend a pro-am golf championship in Abu Dhabi on Wednesday.''

Now isn't it surprising that Prince Andrew found time to fit golf into his busy schedule?
Wonder if that's part of Beatrice's 'education' too.
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  #217  
Old 01-21-2008, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ysbel View Post
But a lot of companies do. I've worked in family-run companies and its staggering the waste that goes on. Some of the extra expense is charitable like escorting the son with multiple sclerosis of the retired CEO on a private first class jet from Berlin to Los Angeles to get the best medical care available as my first boss did. And this company was not a private family enterprise but the 3rd largest chemical company in Germany at the time.

However, one wonders if the son of someone not so important would deem the privilege of a first class flight and the best medical care available.

My personal belief is that once a country holds a royal prince up to a profit and loss balance sheet, then the country has no need for royal princes any more.
I will repeat my argument about businessman v royal. If a listed company wastes it's shareholders money, the shareholders can vote the board out, freeze payments, put their money elsewhere. If an MP is seen to waste taxpayers money, he has to answer to the select committee and can be voted out. Andrew and his daughters, can't. Andrew is not bringing enough money in for the taxpayers to warrant his 'expenses'. He may be bringing extra money for individual companies, but not the taxpayer. Beatrice has enjoyed a nice little holiday at our expense and to try to placate the UK public with the sudden 'it's a training course', just shows the utter contempt Andrew and his team have for UK taxpayers.
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Originally Posted by Camsterlaird View Post
I applaud Prince Andrew taking Beatrice to Egypt with him. Princess Beatrice will have to do her round of Royal Engagements after she finishes Uni anyway, and it is an ideal start of the learning curve for her. I honed skills with the public by observing my father do them - so why exactly are we being so hard on Beatrice???
Why will she have to do a round of royal engagements, what if nobody is interested enough to invite her? What if 10 years down the line, she decides that she has no interest in doing anything for Uncle Charles? Will they then repay us? She hasn't exactly been honing her skills by sitting in on two short meetings iMO.
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  #218  
Old 01-21-2008, 09:20 AM
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The figures being quoted are just for Andrew, as you will have seen if you read the articles, by his own admission 500,000GBP this year.

.
No the quotes are not just for Andrew, using The Independent links you provided the quote was

Quote:
This makes it easy for critics to question whether the £500,000 bill that the taxpayer will have to foot for his UKTI work this year is value for money. "In terms of the return on investment to the UK, bearing in mind I am part of a number of people, I would suggest that £500,000 is cheap at the price," he says.
So it still refers to a 'team' not him individually. I still don't know where the 500,000 pounds comes from as it's not on the UK Trade and Investment audit which is online https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukt...pdf?cid=407359

500,000 pounds is actually not a huge expense when you compare the 45.5 million pounds for the trade shows, publicity, publications expenses that the UKTI paid out. ( I added a few amounts together) Also directors' salaries, money paid out to consultants, lets just say huge amounts of money are spent from the tax payer. Therefore all of which can be questioned as to are they value for money.

Also on the audit is this statement regarding Andrew's expenses

Quote:
[FONT='Arial','sans-serif']UKTI meets part of the Duke of York’s overseas expenses.[/FONT]
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  #219  
Old 01-21-2008, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Why will she have to do a round of royal engagements, what if nobody is interested enough to invite her? What if 10 years down the line, she decides that she has no interest in doing anything for Uncle Charles? Will they then repay us? She hasn't exactly been honing her skills by sitting in on two short meetings iMO.
Skydragon, come on... We can't look into the future. I as well have my serious doubts about that young lady from the way she is presented in the media so far (well, the media can only present what is there... and so far there is nothing but annoying infos.).

Plus that golf tournament in Abu Dhabi is speaking for itself. But still, give the girl a chance. This time at least she did something a bit positive for her future. And we won't know if there isn't another princess Alexandra in the making...
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  #220  
Old 01-21-2008, 09:41 AM
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So it still refers to a 'team' not him individually. I still don't know where the 500,000 pounds comes from as it's not on the UK Trade and Investment audit which is online https://www.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/ukt...pdf?cid=407359
We will have to agree to disagree on our interpretation of this - "the £500,000 bill that the taxpayer will have to foot for his UKTI work this year is value for money. "In terms of the return on investment to the UK, bearing in mind I am part of a number of people, I would suggest that £500,000 is cheap at the price," he says". - IF the £500,000 was for the team, it would say 'the UKTI work'.
Quote:
£17.6 million (£15.9 million) was spent on funding customer-facing activity (International Trade Teams) delivering international trade support in the English regions. The budget for the year was £17.1 million. By utilising some of the savings from other programmes, it was possible to strengthen the regional customer-facing teams, who support business by advising
how trading internationally could help grow their business;


• £11.8 million (£13.1 million) was spent on sector specific export promotional activities in markets and sectors with strong potential for British business.
That is the cost of the teams, Andrew expenses are not shown, none of the expenses are.
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