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Thanks for explaining that so easily Daneborn. ![Smile :) :)](data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7)
Swedish RF can use Bernadotte, and U.K can use Windsor, because it points out exactly which RF they come from.
.But Glücksburg can be members from many different countries. It doesn't give meaning for the Danish RF to use Glücksburg as family name. You wouldn't know exactly what royal Glücksburg family we are talking about.
.Irena of Glücksburg, does anyone know if she's Danish, Greek, Norwegian or something different.
.Anyway, I don't think royals have surnames, (other than ''of Denmark'' or ''duke of .....''), I just think it's something media wants to label them with to be able to separate them from ordinary celebrities.
.If they wanted a surname for themselves they could really only chose Sønderborg since that is the only part of their house-name that is totally on (current) Danish soil.
Alas, the Glucksburg-Beck albeit 100% historically correct, is not very appealing for it reminds of their descent from the dukes of Glucksburg and beck who were NOT just minor and impoverished but were NOT even sovereign rulers, holding instead their lands in fief to the sovereign dukes of Schleswig and Holstein, now lost lands to Germany.
Why lost lands to Germany? Ther eis only a small Danish minority in the federal State of Schleswig-Holstein, which has been granted special privileges including their own school system and representation in the parliament. On the other hand there is a German minority in Denmark, too. Both countries have set an example in dealing with minorities from the other side of the border, IMHO.![]()
Philippe Egalite > I think your answer to my post is rather academic and rhetorical. By your way of disputing one can prove practically any point.
I was simply offering explanations since it's a fact from real life that media in Sweden sometimes refer to the members of their own royal family using Bernadotte as if it was their surname, while I have never seen the Danish media using the Glücksburg label on the Danish royal family.
In my personal opinion it is of course wrong to label royals with surnames. I believe labelling Crown Princess Victoria as e.g. Victoria Bernadotte is either a political statement or plain ignorance.
The Danish royal family has managed to stay relatively small on its own, over the centuries, so I don't think the Queen needs to put extra measures in. It regulates itself via the Counts of Rosenborg issue.The Danish Royal House consists of 11 personages but the wider family includes several Counts and Countesses Rosenborg. Of the 11 members of the Royal House, the two sons of Prince Joachim, Felix and Nikolai will in 20 or so years get married and have children. These young boys are princes but already non-royal highnesses, by decision of the Queen, and If I understand it correctly, their children will be commoners of sorts. Therefore, the need sooner or later will appear for a surname for the members of the Royal House as they cease to be princes/princesses, unless they will continue with the tradition of using Rosenborg as a surname.
Thus, even though the monarch and the princes/princesses need no surname, it is already certain that some of the queen's grand children, namely all of prince Joachim's issue, will need to adopt a surname and I would have thought that it would be most opportune for the queen to decide what the name shall be, before the family starts widening out.
To conclude, therefore, it is logical and mandated by life itself that all reigning royal families have a surname to be used only by their members as and when they cease to be royal and princely and as they start spreading out.
...The obvious thing is for Nikolai and Felix (or their children) not to ask for permission when they'll marry, and voilá - counts of Rosenborg.
Just out of curiosity, what would Nikolai and Felix's children be titled if they did seek and gain permission to marry? Would their wives become HH Princess XX of Denmark?
Just out of curiosity, what would Nikolai and Felix's children be titled if they did seek and gain permission to marry? Would their wives become HH Princess XX of Denmark?
The Danish royal family has managed to stay relatively small on its own, over the centuries, so I don't think the Queen needs to put extra measures in. It regulates itself via the Counts of Rosenborg issue.
The obvious thing is for Nikolai and Felix (or their children) not to ask for permission when they'll marry, and voilá - counts of Rosenborg.
Georg, who married a niece of Queen Elizabeth the Queen Mother, was allowed to keep his title, and his wife received the title Princess Anne of Denmark. (As depicted here http://www.heraldik.se/forum/forum/data/Saigal/2006530132651_DANMARK Anne af 250x333.jpg)
While he was studying in America I think he used either Frederik Prince or Frederik Henriksen, but Glucksborg I think is their "used on occasion" last name
Sorry to contradict everyone but I think the Danish royal family doesn't have a surname. They are descended from the House of Glucksborg, but that is their house and not their personal surname. There was an interview with Prince Pavlos posted in the GRF forum a long time ago where he stated on his business cards he is simply 'Prince Pavlos' because his family is descended from the Danish royal family and it doesn't have a surname. Similarly Martha Louise of Norway was registered as 'Princess Martha Louise' when she was born (no surname) as King Haakon was originally a Danish prince. So when Mary Donaldson married CP Frederik she became HRH Crown Princess Mary Elizabeth, not CP Mary Elizabeth Glucksborg or Mary Elizabeth Glucksborg. She has married into the House of Glucksborg, but it isn't her surname.
Når prins Nikolai ser tilbage, har han svært ved at huske, præcis hvornår han fandt ud af, at han var lidt anderledes end gennemsnittet.
Men måske var det tilbage i skoletiden omkring 2. klasse, da han blev spurgt om sit efternavn, tror han.
- Så har jeg skullet fortælle, at det er en spøjs historie; jeg har ikke noget efternavn. Der er en titel og så mit fornavn, siger han.
(When Prince Nikolai looks back, he has difficulty remembering exactly when he found out that he was a little different from the average.
But maybe it was back during his school days, around 2nd grade, when he was asked about his last name, he believes.
- Then I will say, it's a funny story; I don't have a last name. There is a title and then my first name, he says.)
First of all, reigning dynasts, that is, sovereigns and (immediate) members of royal families with constitutional or legal rights to a throne (thus holding rank and title), do not have to have and do not need a surname.
In my personal opinion it is of course wrong to label royals with surnames. I believe labelling Crown Princess Victoria as e.g. Victoria Bernadotte is either a political statement or plain ignorance.
My understanding is that the children of Nikolai and Felix, as great grand children of a monarch will not be princes/princesses, whether Nikolai and Felix marry with or without permission.
I am not sure whether there is a precedent to this effect in Denmark, but HM the Queen is favoring this development as indicated by the fact that Nikolai and Felix are not Royal Highnesses, but plain hignesses. So, once a generation has ceased to be royal, the next one is expected to cease to be princely altogether!
Therefore, in practice, Rosenborg is the surname of the members of the Danish Royal Family when they cease to be royal. Thus, the argument raised by many, including former king Constantine, that the Danish Royal Family has no surname is untenable.
In practice, that is, all members become Rosenborgs when they cease to be princes/princesses.![]()
Frederik Henriksen - Frederik son of Henrik. Something light with Russian patronimics kind of second name.
But then again, before Prince Philip, the family name shouldn't have been even Windsor. The family name came from Prince Albert who was a Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. The BRF like to play fast and loose with their family nameThe Danes are much more conservative.
Can the house name be considered the surname of the monarch?
Hmm, not really.
The DRF has traditionally been above noble dynasties for I don't know how many centuries and as such the monarch, his heir and the children of the heir (the core-DRF-family) had no family name. Younger sons and daughters eventually reverted into nobility, unless they married a royal.
So the DRF being Oldenburg or Glücksburgs is strictly speaking a foreign construct, for historical references and for people who study dynastic lines. But QMII, Frederik, Christian etc is neither. They have no family name.
Joachim's children have one now, Monpezat. And Isabella, Josephine and Vincent (Even though I think there will be a semi-role for Isabella) or at least their children are also likely to revert into Monpezats.
Frederik and Christian is not and will not be Monpezats. As I understand it (at least in DK) Majesties and Heir trumps noble titles, because they already are a monarch or is destined to become one. So the dynastic name, even if it's not used in practice, follow the majesty, not the husband.
Otherwise Princess Margrethe should have become Countess Margrethe Monpezat upon marrying PH. She didn't, Heir trumps Count.
There are several examples of female monarchs marrying but not taking the name of their husbands. Mary I springs to mind. - And he was also told to mind his own business in regards to England!
She cynically speaking married her husband for political reasons and because she needed a sperm-donor. She certainly did not marry into his family.
- And with that very simplified post, I bid you goodnight.
Interesting. In regards to the paragraph I've bolded:
As the website of the Royal House explains it, the Queen belongs to a continuous Danish royal line which extends as far back as Gorm the Old in the mid-900s; however, this thousand-year royal line is subdivided into direct and cadet line. The Queen belongs to the house of Glücksborg, a side branch of the house of Oldenborg, which itself is a side branch of the original royal dynasty from Gorm the Old.
The Glücksborg dynasty, to which Her Majesty The Queen belongs, is the fourth and youngest branch of the Danish royal lines that descended from Gorm the Old and Queen Thyra in the mid-900s.
The currently-reigning Glücksborg dynasty descends from Christian IX (1863-1906) and Queen Louise. Thus, it is the youngest branch in the royal lineage, whose roots go back more than a thousand years.
When Frederik VII (1848-1863) died without leaving heirs, his successor was, as a result of the Throne Succession Law of 1853, Prince Christian of Glücksborg, who belonged to a side-branch of the House of Oldenborg stemming from Christian III (1536-1559).
https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/menu/news/150-years-of-the-house-of-glcksborg
Note that the arms of the Queen (and the arms of the Crown Prince) use the arms of the house of Oldenborg as the inescutcheon (the superimposed smaller shield which traditionally represents the bearer's family heritage).
https://www.kongehuset.dk/en/the-monarchy-in-denmark/the-royal-symbols/the-royal-coat-of-arms/#
Crown Prince Frederik, however, will be the first monarch of the House of Monpezat while his mother is now the last Danish monarch of the House of Glücksburg..
I don't think that has been stated anywhere.
No, but that is what the traditional laws of European genealogy dictate, based on patrilineal family naming.
Of course, King Frederik X may choose to take a different family name, but the fact that Nikolai and Felix appeared to have taken the surname Monpezat (?) is encouraging for traditionalists.
No, but that is what the traditional laws of European genealogy dictate, based on patrilineal family naming.
Of course, King Frederik X may choose to take a different family name, but the fact that Nikolai and Felix appeared to have taken the surname Monpezat (?) is encouraging for traditionalists.
Tradition is that a family names itself to the most important fiefdom or castle.
The principality of Orange is a good example, the families naming themselves to this fief despite hopping over genealogically:
1181 House of Baux named Orange
1388 House of Châlon named Orange
1544 House of Nassau named Orange
1702 House of Orange-Nassau
1732 House of Orange-Nassau + House of Hohenzollern (Treaty of Partage 1732)
1948 House of Mecklenburg-Schwerin named Orange-Nassau + House of Hohenzollern
1980 House of Lippe-Biesterfeld named Orange-Nassau + House of Hohenzollern
2013 House of Amsberg named Orange-Nassau + House of Hohenzollern
I'm not sure if that is the best example. There were only one or two "hops" in the succession to the principality or princedom of Orange: First when Prince René bequeathed the principality, which he had inherited from his maternal uncle, to his paternal first cousin Willem of Nassau, and arguably a second time when King William III of Great Britain bequeathed it to his first cousin once removed, Johan Willem Friso of Nassau (but Johan Willem Friso was still a great-grandson of a prior Prince of Orange).
On all other occasions, Orange descended in more or less direct lineage from parent to child, sibling to sibling, and in one case uncle to nephew.
The addition of various other family names such as Baux, Chalon, Mecklenburg (not Mecklenburg-Schwerin), Lippe-Biesterfeld and Amsberg resulted from the children of ruling princesses of Orange and queens of the Netherlands adopting the names of both parents.