Succession issues in the Royal Family of Jordan

[SemiPatriot83]

You all remember the succession drama that took place before K. Hussein passed away, right? Does anybody think that K. Abdullah will pass on Hamzah and give the title to his son?

 

[Humera]

I dont know...seems only natural that King Abdullah and Queen Rania would want their son to be King.
I dont think Hamzah has a good chance.
I dont envy the royal family though..all these children from multiple wives must be a source of such tension and conflict.
Doesn't Jordan have clear cut succession laws that would put an end to all the speculation?

 

[SemiPatriot83]

I really have no idea about Jordan's laws or whatever, I'm American

 

[mya]

UNLESS KING ABDULLAH DIES WHILE HIS SON IS STILL MINOR (BELOW 17) CP HAMZAH HAS A CHANCE AT THRONE...THUS THE REASON HE IS MARRYING AND PREPARING HIS SELF FOR THE THRONE JUST IN CASE.. HOWEVER, KING ABDULLAH WILL PROBABLY MAKE HIS SON CROWN PRINCE IF HE IS STILL ALIVE WHEN HUSSEIN BECOMES OF AGE...QUEEN NOOR HAS PLACED HER SON TO BE IN THE CP POSITION BUT NOW TIME IS ON KING ABDULLAH'S SIDE. IM SURE QUEEN RANIA WILL LOVE TO HAVE HER SON KING ....SOMEDAY

 

[bluetortuga]

I think K. Abdullah will do the same thing that K. Hussein did. I don't think KA would want Q. Rania to go through what Q. Noor is going through now. He would not want the center of power to shift from his own offspring. Q. Noor once said in an interview that it did not matter to Hamzah whether he became king or not; all he wants to do is serve his country. Being king is not an issue. So the situation is much different from the time of P. Hassan. P.Hassan wanted to be king.

I think Hamzah will be king only if any of the following conditions are present:

1. K. Abdullah dies young.
2. K. Abdullah does not have another son, and Hamzah and P. Noor have more than one son. It pays to have brothers in Jordan; P. Rashid (only son of Hassan) would have been no match for the five sons of K. Hussein.
3. P. Hussein grows up to behave in manner that would deem him unworthy to succeed to the Hashemite throne.

Only time will tell whether Hamzah becomes king or not. But if it does not matter to him, then its a non-issue.

 

[madonna23]

only time will tell...but if hamzah does take the throne, he will be very very old so his reighn will most probably be short

 

[shannen26]

Hamzah will be King as his father decided this way, I think a promise made to your dying father is most important- KA said to N Y Times that if Hamzah had learnt from P Hasan's mistakes, he could be King 1 day- and , though we can't discuss it, there is something about his son so that , u can be sure of that, he could and would never be King, never .......

 

[queenkat101]

Originally posted by shannen26@Jan 2nd, 2004 - 11:42 pm
Hamzah will be King as his father decided this way, I think a promise made to your dying father is most  important- KA said to N Y Times that if Hamzah had learnt from P Hasan's mistakes, he could be King 1 day- and , though we can't discuss it, there is something about his son so that , u can be sure of that,  he could and would never be King, never .......

I also think that King Abdullah will honour his father's wish regarding Hamzah ( I do think that Queen Rania would very much like her son to succeed KA, however). I read in Queen Noor's autobiography that KA told QN that he would honour King Hussein's wish. (I also think that Queen Noor included that comment in her memoirs on purpose).
I am curious as to why you say that Prince Hussein couldn't become King....does he have a disability of some sort? Why is it so secretive and how would you know about this?

 

[madonna23]

i don't think we can count on ka's promise...not to put down him in anway...but only time will tell...the decision to make hassan crown prince was a promise made by king hussein to his mother (who wanted a full arab king, not a half arab half british one)...as we all know, that promise was not fulfilled...

we can speculate...but only time will tell...

 

[Humble]

Originally posted by madonna23@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 12:03 am
i don't think we can count on ka's promise...not to put down him in anway...but only time will tell...the decision to make hassan crown prince was a promise made by king hussein to his mother (who wanted a full arab king, not a half arab half british one)...as we all know, that promise was not fulfilled...

we can speculate...but only time will tell...

It seems to me that Queen Rania is VERY AMBITIOUS woman and she will do whatever to make her son king. By the way, there is alot of power conflict between the women of the Jordanian Palace. Rania now is the strongest in the game.

 

[Humera]

Originally posted by mya@Jan 2nd, 2004 - 11:18 pm
UNLESS KING ABDULLAH DIES WHILE HIS SON IS STILL MINOR (BELOW 17) CP HAMZAH HAS A CHANCE AT THRONE...THUS THE REASON HE IS MARRYING AND PREPARING HIS SELF FOR THE THRONE JUST IN CASE..

yeah i came to that conclusion as well upon Prince Hamzah's marriage. He obviously got married so young because of his position as crown prince.

Im not Jordanian and i dont particularly favour Prince Hamzah over Hussein but it seems to me that when the line of succession goes from one brother to another, there's always endless complications.
The fact that the King should be succeeded by his offspring and not his siblings seems quite natural to me. Besides, i think its unfair that King Hussein promised Queen Noor that Prince Hamzah will be king some day. What about Queen Alia's children? Why favour the children of one wife over those of another? I know it sounds silly but that's one of the reason im not in favour of multiple marriages.
Although I suppose any woman in Queen Noor's position would want her son to succeed.
I just think the whole process is too complicated and must be a source of a lot of tension between the various members of the royal family.
A country faced with such a situation should atleast have clear laws that determine the line of succession. Promises made on the deathbed are a poor substitue for such laws and have the potential of creating much discord.

 

[SemiPatriot83]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Hamzah close to his dad? In Q. Noor's book she gave off the impression that it was Hamzah's destiny to be King. Now I'm not bashing Q. Noor, but Hamzah seems like the best choice out of the bunch to be the king. Then again, I read the Q. Rania is an ambitious woman, much like Noor. Which means her son might be "in the running." Off the subject, it's a crying shame that the women in the royal family have trouble getting along with each other. We only get one family.

My comment was not clear, I meant to say, I don't know what I 'm trying to say. Why was K. Abdullah chosen in the first place, was it because he was the oldest and that was the only reason?

 

[Humera]

Originally posted by SemiPatriot83@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 1:37 am
My comment was not clear, I meant to say, I don't know what I 'm trying to say. Why was K. Abdullah chosen in the first place, was it because he was the oldest and that was the only reason?

well yeah, he is the oldest son i believe.
Besides, none of Noor's sons were old enough to be King at the time. If they had been, Im sure Hamzah would be king right now

 

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by ~*~Humera~*~@Jan 2nd, 2004 - 11:11 pm
Doesn't Jordan have clear cut succession laws that would put an end to all the speculation?

Jordan's constitution would favour King Abdullah's son, Hussein, to be king after his father. The line of succession for the Jordanian throne, as it is defined by Jordans constitution, goes from father to son. Hamzah is Crown Prince only as a result of his father's wishes. I think that King Hussein favoured him because he showed much more enthusiasm towards his country and his family's history than did his brothers. King Hussein wrote about that in his letter to his brother Hassan.

If you ask me, I doubt that Hamzah will ever become king. I think that by the time King Abdullah passes away, his son will be old enough to take over. But then again, I could be wrong. :flower:


P.S. Kudos to semipatriot for coming up with this topic! :woot:

 

[Malak]

I am neither a Jordanian nor living in Jordan but , i want to share my thoughts if u don't mind , Hamzah shouldn't be king (just my opinion)..Banadora . you said "I think that King Hussein favoured him because he showed much more enthusiasm towards his country and his family's history than did his brothers"...i think , and i am sure from the magazines or stories i had read & heard on internet , Ali showed and always shows much more enthusiasm towards his country and his people...Ali is a pure Arab (according to his father and his mother) and a pure Muslim...i still can't understand why Hamzah is called "Crown Prince"....the name "King" suits Ali more
it is just my opinion...what is Ali's fault?why can't he be the king after KA ?? i love Ali and Abdullah when i see them together..if one day Hamzah becomes the king , i never wish to see Ali near him as his bodyguard i prefer to see him with Abdullah or all alone as a king one day...
i love him soooooo much

Melek

 

[madonna23]

why aren't the rest "pure muslims"?

 

[Malak]

all of them are muslims madonna23 , i didn't mean anything wrong...i just wanted to say , (i am sure everyone understood what i meant) Ali's both father and mother were Muslims..others' mothers became Muslim when they decided to marry (or after married i am not sure) late King Hussein , right? but Ali's mother was a "pure" muslim..i meant that..

Melek

 

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by Malak@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 1:16 pm
I am neither a Jordanian nor living in Jordan but , i want to share my thoughts if u don't mind , Hamzah shouldn't be king (just my opinion)..Banadora . you said "I think that King Hussein favoured him because he showed much more enthusiasm towards his country and his family's history than did his brothers"...i think , and i am sure from the magazines or stories i had read & heard on internet , Ali showed and always shows much more enthusiasm towards his country and his people...Ali is a pure Arab (according to his father and his mother) and a pure Muslim...i still can't understand why Hamzah is called "Crown Prince"....the name "King" suits Ali more
it is just my opinion...what is Ali's fault?why can't he be the king after KA ?? i love Ali and Abdullah when i see them together..if one day Hamzah becomes the king , i never wish to see Ali near him as his bodyguard i prefer to see him with Abdullah or all alone as a king one day...
i love him soooooo much

Melek

Malak, I am as much a fan of Hamzah as your are of Ali. I really like Ali, and believe that he also deserves to be king. But the fact is that Hamzah was chosen by his father and his older brother Abdullah to be the Crown Prince. I went to find the letter that King Hussein wrote to his brother Crown Prince Hassan before he passed on. Here's a passage where he describes his reasons for choosing Hamzah as Crown Prince.

"Hamzeh, may God give him long life, has been envied since childhood because he was close to me, and because he wanted to know all matters large and small, and all details of the history of his family. He wanted to know about the struggle of his brothers and of his countrymen. I have been touched by his devotion to his country and by his integrity and magnanimity as he stayed beside me, not moving unless I forced him from time to time to carry out some duty on occasions that did not exceed the fingers on one hand. That is how Hamzeh Ben Al Hussein spent his holiday, between his studies at Harrow and his admission to the military academy at Sandhurst, after my insistence. I order him now, as his father and leader, to continue his studies there without any interruption until he finishes, by God's grace."

 

[pegassuss2525]

The line of succession for the Jordanian throne, as it is defined by Jordans constitution, goes from father to son.

The Jordian constitution also allows for a brother to inherit the throne. Originally the constitution only stated the son should inherit. Hussein had that changed when Abdullah was small (about 3 years) due to the unrest in the area. He didn't want his son to be a target or the possibility of a regent's rule. Therefore he changed the constitution to allow for his brother to inherit.

Many people feel that Ali should be king because he is the only full-blooded Arab.

 

[Banadoora]

Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 3:00 pm

The line of succession for the Jordanian throne, as it is defined by Jordans constitution, goes from father to son.

The Jordian constitution also allows for a brother to inherit the throne. Originally the constitution only stated the son should inherit. Hussein had that changed when Abdullah was small (about 3 years) due to the unrest in the area. He didn't want his son to be a target or the possibility of a regent's rule. Therefore he changed the constitution to allow for his brother to inherit.

Many people feel that Ali should be king because he is the only full-blooded Arab.

Since I've already started quoting the letter, I'll just keep at it.

I believe that the Jordanian constitution defines the line of succession as going from father to eldest son. King Hussein had it amended because Abdullah was too young. But it should go from father to son. In Abdullah's case, his son Hussein was too young when he was coronated, so he had to place Hamzah as crown prince. This doesn't mean that Hamzah will definitely become king. Prince Hussein, as he gets older, could very well become a king instead of Hamzah. Or perhaps Hamzah will become king someday. I don't know.

Here's what King Hussein wrote of the Constitution's amendment.


"At the time, we were forced to introduce an amendment to Article 28 of the Constitution so that a brother of the King could assume the post of the Crown Prince. I chose you for the post with the blessings and approval of my brother, His Royal Highness Prince Mohammad. You have been privileged to hold that post despite the fact that your brother Mohammad was older than you. My dear brother Mohammad displayed understanding and altruism."

 

[bluetortuga]

There are some who argue that Ali should be King instead of Abdullah or Hamzah. At one time, Ali was deputy crown prince after P. Hassan, at the request of K. Hussein. But Ali fell out of favor because of personal problems (I'm not sure what these problems were, some say drugs, alcohol and too much partying). Because of his problems, K. Hussein did not feel Ali was responsible enough to be king.

Is it true that Ali was recently fired by K. Abdullah? Why was Ali fired? Those of us in family-run organizations don't fire family members easily. That family member would have had to have done something very serious. I would hate to think that K. Hussein was right about his own son.

Whether he is full-Arab or not, the best man to be king is the one who is most qualified for the job. K. Abdullah is not a fool. P. Hussein will not be a shoe-in for king. As Q. Rania said in her interview with Vanity Fair. P. Hussein is going to have to work hard for any position he wants in life. He will have to prove himself worthy, as Hamzah is trying to do now.

 

[madonna23]

oh...okay i get it malak...i thought you meant he was more religious than the others...thanks

 

[Malak]

thank you so much Banadoora..i didn't know those you told...
and thank you madonna23 for not misunderstanding me...i didn't mean to say anything bad cos i respect and admire Jordanian Royal family , esp Prince Ali...when the subject comes to Ali , i just can't stop saying i love him so much

Melek

 

[Malak]

Bluetortuga , what do you mean by saying "I would hate to think that K. Hussein was right about his own son." What did K.Hussein say about Ali?? i really don't know and wondered
thank you.

Melek

 

[bluetortuga]

I meant that P. Ali was once deputy crown prince of Jordan. If you check old records you will see that was made deputy crown prince in 1978. Then all of a sudden in 1997, he was no longer deputy crown prince. Then the stories began to circulate that he was removed from that position because of his own personal problems. K. Hussein would have only removed P. Ali from the position of deputy crown prince, if there was something wrong. It was K. Hussein's intention at one time to make Ali king after him. At one time, Ali was the favorite son. Hamzah did not become the favorite until much later.

 

[Malak]

oops..i see..thank you bluetortuga..yes i had known before that he lost his chance to be king in 1997..but i wasn't sure about the reason , about his personal problems i mean..
i wish he had never lost his chance...
I hope God helps him always in his life...
i really love him so much but just felt sorry for him now
thank you again..

Melek

 

[bluetortuga]

I feel for Ali too. Ali's problems began when he lost his mother, Q. Alia, I think he would have done much better if she had been alive to give him her love and support. I can't imagine how it was for him, P. Haya and Abeer growing up without their mother. I think of all the sad stories in the Hashemite family, the situation with Ali, Haya and Abeer is the most tragic. Even if K. Hussein had divorced Q. Alia, and she had not died, at least she would still have been there for children. Now, Ali, Haya and Abeer are "orphans": who do they have looking out for them? P. Muna looks out for her children. Q. Noor looks out for her children. Ali, Haya and Abeer have no one.

 

[Humera]

Originally posted by pegassuss2525@Jan 3rd, 2004 - 3:00 pm

The line of succession for the Jordanian throne, as it is defined by Jordans constitution, goes from father to son.

The Jordian constitution also allows for a brother to inherit the throne. Originally the constitution only stated the son should inherit. Hussein had that changed when Abdullah was small (about 3 years) due to the unrest in the area. He didn't want his son to be a target or the possibility of a regent's rule. Therefore he changed the constitution to allow for his brother to inherit.

Many people feel that Ali should be king because he is the only full-blooded Arab.

well no wonder things are so complicated.
but as far as i understand what's been said, the constitution defines the line of succession to go from father to son and only allows the brother to inherit in certain circumstances.
So unless, God forbid, something happens to King Abdullah or Prince Hussein, Prince Hamzah isn't the first candidate to be King, not when the current King already has an heir, although he's a minor at the present.

 

[pegassuss2525]

Actually the constitution allows for either a son or a brother to inherit. The actual person is up to the current ruller. Hussein never intended until the very end to change the person designated Crown Prince. He had planned for his brother to inherit and then a family council to convene to determine the next heir. Hussein wanted the Hashimites to remain in control but wanted the best one to rule. His brother wouldn't agree to this and because of it and other issues, Hussein removed him from being Crown Prince. Whoever Abdullah chooses for Crown Prince, whether it is Hamzah, Hussein, or another brother, at the time of his death will suceed him to the throne.

 

[SemiPatriot83]

From what I know, the reason why King Hussein passed on Ali becoming hi heir, was he had a "playboy lifestyle." As for Hamzah, when I look at him I see his father, which is weird because I 'm american and have never been to Jordan. He has his father's warm smile, anybody agree with me on that?