Succession and Membership Issues

[Furienna]

Excactly! The emperor and the empress must always have known, that both their sons could become emperor one day, so both sons must have been raised to know what's expected from them. Right?

 

[Elspeth]

I should think so, especially after neither of the princes had produced sons by the time they were in their late 30s. Even if Prince Akishino hadn't been getting any training because they thought Princess Aiko might inherit, there's time to train him now and it's going to be a while before his son is old enough to start training.

 

[Furienna]

Naruhito and Fumihito are likely to both have been raised to be future emperors. Even if Naruhito was the oldest and therefor the heir appearent, anything can happen. What if Naruhito ended up in an accident or got a terminal disease? So Fumihito also needed to be raised to become emperor.

 

[mandyy]

LEAD: Lawmakers form league to preserve male-line imperial succession

A group of Japanese parliamentarians launched a nonpartisan league Tuesday to push to maintain Japan's traditional imperial succession rules allowing only males to ascend the throne. "How can we comfortably keep the imperial system, whose line of emperors has been unbroken for ages, for good? I believe it is our responsibility to bring our wisdom together to open the way for its future," said Yoshinobu Shimamura, a member of the governing Liberal Democratic Party and former farm minister, who heads the new group..............
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/061017/kyodo/d8kq76mg0.html

 

[Next Star]

In the Japense monarchy a woman can't be head of state she must take care of her children and the home while only a man can be head of state they feel a woman should have no part in politics or government it has been that way for millions of years beening that Japan is the world's oldest monarchy.

 

[Lady Night Stalker]

In the Japense monarchy a woman can't be head of state she must take care of her children and the home while only a man can be head of state they feel a woman should have no part in politics or government it has been that way for millions of years beening that Japan is the world's oldest monarchy.

Corrections it has been that way for thousands of years not millions. Secondly women at one time were allowed to rule but one of the Emperors (I don't know which one) changed the laws so only males could inherit. Women can and should be head of state,

 

[ropura]

Its was " Emperor Meiji" Period that women not allowed be Emperor.That only male can be Emperor.


Ropura

 

[Next Star]

Corrections it has been that way for thousands of years not millions. Secondly women at one time were allowed to rule but one of the Emperors (I don't know which one) changed the laws so only males could inherit. Women can and should be head of state,

In myth they say that the Japense monarcy had been found in 745 B.C so if that is true it is more than a million years old and that is in the past we are talling about the present.

 

[Lillia]

In myth they say that the Japense monarcy had been found in 745 B.C so if that is true it is more than a million years old and that is in the past we are talling about the present.

Well, it looks like they would be a little more than 2,000 years old (not 1 million) using those figure and if I have the math correct.

Anyone want to check?

 

[Lillia]

ok

here's something from the International Herald Tribune. They did an interesting article about Japanese Monarchy and they did a little history too...

"...According to Japanese myth, the first emperor, Jimmu, a descendant of the sun goddess Amaterasu, reigned 2,665 years ago; historians, though, trace the start of Japan's imperial system to the fourth or fifth century..."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/26/news/japan.php

and Time Asia had something to say about the monarchy's 2,666 year old imperial history also:

http://www.time.com/time/asia/covers/501060904/timeline.html

 

[Next Star]

The Japense monarchy was founded on Feburary 11,660 B.C I looked it up myself it is more than a million years old .

 

[Lillia]

According to Time Asia (I think they are reputable reporters) and International Herald Tribune (I believe they are quite credible also), and the BBC, they say that the monarchy is about 2,666 years old in Japan. Time Asia even produce a time line to trace its known history.

But, if you want to go with the estimate of a million years for the Japanese monarchy, fine with me.

(I believe that the rest of the planet is estimated to have been in the beginnings of the Pleistocene and ice ages a million years ago...)

 

[Next Star]

Okay it is more than a thousand years old but we are still talking about b.c not a.d I would think that the Japense monarchy would be older than that clearly it is very anticent.

 

[Furienna]

Yes, but one million years? The humans hadn't left Africa one million years ago!

 

[Next Star]

Where did that come from? I acknoweledge I had make a mistake and that the Japense Imperial Family is still the world's oldest monarchy which is amazing while other monarchies have been abolished their still going on strong may the Japense Empire contiune for another thousand years to come.

 

[Emily]

It may be the world's oldest monarchy in a sense. It has been reported, however, that historians have been anxious to get into the supposed tombs of previous emperors and that this is not allowed by the powers the be. The thinking is that many of the early emperors were "mythical" and that subsequent emperors may not be those that are actually buried in the imperial tombs. So while, yes, it is a very old line -- there are some questionable aspects to it.

 

[Next Star]

I agree with you Emily we are actually going by a myth not real proof but until we find that there is proof we must go by what is said in the news/media. I am not crazy about it either going by a myth and not real proof.

 

[CrownPrinceLorenzo]

As I said before, this Imperial Succession is FULL of BS.

Before the Meiji restoration, Imperial Princesses were fully allowed to reign as sovereign if the council chose them or if the Tenno before them chose them. They are SOVEREIGN not REGENTS as everyone would like you to believe.

They are sovereign because 1.) They sit on the Chrysanthemum Throne 2.) They are given the title of a sovereign which is "Tenno" and 3.) Simple regents have a regent's title (ie. Prince-Regent etc.)

And Akihito Tenno, the current emperor, he needs to be reminded that his title "Tenno" was first used by a WOMAN sovereign. The title "Tenno" was then added posthumously to the sovereigns that came before her. But before her, there were no records of the word used to address those who came before her.

Now, as for the male imperial line being unbroken, yes this is true. But back then the Imperial Family was very inbred and they married each other. Uncles marrying nices, first cousins marrying eatch other, brothers marrying sisters. Even concubines are from the imperial line. So back then, the male line AND the female line was the SAME line.

As for the myth that none of the Empresses had any children. A few of them did have children. And Gemmei Tenno was succeeded by her daughter.

As for the females abdicated in favor of male sovereigns, yes this is true. But not because they were female, but it's because it's a TREND for Japanese Emperors to abdicate.

Regardless of age or gender, a Tenno would abdicate in favor of his/her designated heir once the heir is of age. The abdicated Tenno would then be a "Cloistered Ruler". Who has more authority, influence, and power over the current Sovereign due to seniority. The Cloistered ruler is one of the more importal advisors.

Also, yes, they'd rather have males on the throne than females, but European monarchies worked that way too. This Salic Law wasn't a Japanese law, it was modeled after the Prussian constitution.

And I wouldn't believe or trust what the Japanese government or the IHA will say about the history of the monarcy. I mean they're so anti-female rule that they'd do anything to degrade the status of the female Tennos of the past. They're sooo "Nazi-like" that they try to white wash history books about how Japan was innocent during WWII. And I love how they're trying to cover up the fact that the Japanese emperors do have some lineage from ancient Korean Kings even when Akihito Tenno acknowledged it himself.

So you see, the IHA and many members of the Diet (who are descendants of former nobilities and cadet branches of the Imperial line) cannot be trusted.

 

[Lox]

As for the myth that none of the Empresses had any children. A few of them did have children. And Gemmei Tenno was succeeded by her daughter.

I wouldn't call it a myth, really. What I have read in the english/japanese newspapers is that no Empress gave birth to any children AFTER ascending to the throne, and that is correct (I think).

The newspapers has also stated the fact that every Emperor/Empress has been a descendant in the male line of a previous Emperor. That is also the case with Empress Gemmei's daughter Empress Gensho. Her father was Prince Kusakabe, son of Emperor Temmu.

I think you're being a bit unfair with the IHA. The way I see it, they haven't misled anyone.

 

[Lady Night Stalker]

In myth they say that the Japense monarcy had been found in 745 B.C so if that is true it is more than a million years old and that is in the past we are talling about the present.

No, you are wrong. 745 BC may be the date but that is far less than a million years ago. Modern humans are only a few tens of thousands years old. A million years ago would be BEFORE humans began to even exsist!

 

[Next Star]

No, you are wrong. 745 BC may be the date but that is far less than a million years ago. Modern humans are only a few tens of thousands years old. A million years ago would be BEFORE humans began to even exsist!

Did you read through the thread before you wrote?
I admitted I was wrong and please talk about what is in this thread and not on something that was wriitten several weeks ago.

 

[mandyy]

Report: Japan to drop plan to allow female monarch
Japan will drop plans to allow women to inherit the country's imperial throne, following the birth last year of a long-awaited male heir, a news report said Wednesday.

The conservative Prime Minister Shinzo Abe plans to ditch recommendations by a government panel in 2005 that an emperor's first child _ boy or girl _ should accede the throne, according to a report by the daily Sankei Shimbun.
The reform was designed to defuse a looming succession crisis for the royal family, which had produced no male heir in four decades.
But the drive, championed by former Prime Minister Junichiro Koziumi, lost steam after the birth of Prince Hisahito on Sept. 6 to Kiko, the wife of the emperor's second son. Abe now plans to encourage debate on other ways to make the imperial succession more stable, the paper said, citing unnamed officials...........
http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2007/1/3/apworld/20070103133502&sec=apworld

Gov't to drop plan to allow for female monarch: daily
The government is set to drop its plan to review imperial succession rules that bar women from succeeding to the throne, given the birth last year of the first boy in 41 years to the world's oldest hereditary monarchy, the Sankei Shimbun reported Wednesday......
http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/395048

Abe cautious on enabling women to succeed to imperial throne

(Kyodo) _ Prime Minister Shinzo Abe reiterated Thursday his wariness about revising the male-only imperial succession law to allow women to ascend the throne as a way of ensuring stable imperial succession.
"Stable imperial succession is a basic issue for our country," Abe told reporters after visiting the Ise Jingu shrine in Ise, Mie Prefecture. "We want to discuss the stable succession issue calmly and deeply, taking into account the fact that Prince Hisahito was born last year."........
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/070104/kyodo/d8medm5o0.html

 

[Elspeth]

No surprise there. I hope Prince Hisahito's future wife doesn't mind having to go through the procedure of gender selection to ensure sons when she starts having babies. Or maybe it's just that the conservatives want to make sure that the current Crown Prince and his family are sidelined and the reform will come later after the Akishino family is on the throne.

 

[hmwawasi]

This is my first writing. i have been lurking for a while. Although shelving the female succesion debate will please the conservatives, they have to be aware that this is only temporary. within 30-40 years from now, japan may find itself back on the same succession crisis as prince hisahito will be the only imperial prince of his generation.

i hope the IHA find other altenatives to succession and not always expect members to keep producing males

 

[Al_bina]

The last chance of the Reform

In my humble opinion, the last chance of the above mentioned reform is the current Crown Prince, who may urge on the importance of altering certain rules of the Imperial Succession.

 

[Next Star]

I am not surprise either that was the last chance for an female emperor to inherit the throne until the emperor's second son's wife was able to produce a boy. I wanted the child to be a girl but it was not to be once again only males can be allowed to inherit the Japense imperial throne.

 

[Gloriana]

Stupid Idiots!

 

[Furienna]

I don't think it's fair to call the Japanese stupid idiots. They just want to keep the traditions of a millennia old imperial house. However, I think it's time for a compromise: Females can be granted the possibility to take the thrown, but males will still come first.

 

[Frothy]

I will bet any money that within fifteen years, Japan will have an equal primogeniture law just like all the Western monarchies will.

The tide of reform from Sweden, Norway, Spain, Holland etc will be overwhelming.

 

[Gloriana]

Originally Posted by Furienna
I don't think it's fair to call the Japanese stupid idiots. They just want to keep the traditions of a millennia old imperial house.

I didn't mean the Japanese in general.

IMO, not all traditions are good, and this is one of them.