State Visit from the President of the United States: June 3-5, 2019

[Hans-Rickard]

It has been widely reported that the President wanted the carriage ride and the whole nine yards. I think it would be better to keep it relatively low key, as it will probably be disruptive to the natives.

A carriage procession is usually done accompanied by huge cheering crowds along the Mall. I wonder if that will be the case now.....

It's better to use the car to get to Buckingham Palace uninterupted and without incidents.

 

[JuliannaVictoria]

I don't expect Meghan to attend as she is on maternity leave.

Whilst on the issue of why Meghan might attend, Meghan's qualification to attend comes from her marriage to Harry. That is quite enough, IMO. I don't believe her brief internship in a foreign embassy or studying international relations at university necessarily do the job.

That's not what I meant. I was saying that she understands the rules of the game in being diplomatic.

 

[wyevale]

Steptoe [aka Corbyn] joins Mr Cable [Lib-dem leader] in refusing to eat with Mr Trump, yet both were more than happy to do so with Xi Jinping..who comes from a country without elections, freedom of expression or basic human rights.
The moral 'double standard' is hard to comprehend...

 

[Mbruno]

Steptoe [aka Corbyn] joins Mr Cable [Lib-dem leader] in refusing to eat with Mr Trump, yet both were more than happy to do so with Xi Jinping..
The moral 'double standard' is hard to comprehend...

Trump probably won’t be president anyway when Corbyn becomes PM, so no big harm to the UK.

I am assuming of course that Trump won’t be re-elected in 2020. Corbyn might become PM earlier than that ( if there is a UK general election in 2019) , but, even if that were the case, his term in office wouldn’t overlap with Trump’s for much more than a year or a year and a half at most.

 

[Madame Verseau]

The state visit is going to be a test on the royals because they are dealing with Trump. Remember Trump is on Twitter record that he could have seduced Diana and blamed Kate for the topless picture in France. Last year the American press reported that Charles and William snubbed Trump on his visit last year. BP denied it but the White House never backed the royals up. If Trump believes there was a snub no telling what will happen. For the record Trump never insulted Meghan even after her comments and I think there was a contribution to a charity for the Sussexes wedding. It doesn't take much to upset Trump.

 

[Rudolph]

I can't speak for Meghan because she's never attended a state Visit in the past but for everyone else it's business as usual.

The British Royals break bread with dictators around the world. Same as other governments.

If you can sit down with governments who behead it's citizens, you can sit down with the democratically elected president of America.

 

[Mbruno]

IMO, I think the Opposition Leader should attend the dinner in a show of the United Kingdom. It is a State Visit.

As to the part which I bolded; By the way, HM is the Head of State, but not the Head of Government. The Prime Minister is the Head of Government, Opposition is to the Government, not to HM as Head of State.


.

The President is both the Head of State and the Head of Government in the US. So, the OP was correct: the invitation is to "the Head of State of one of the UK's closest ally" (i.e. the POTUS).

 

[Lilyflo]

IMO, I think the Opposition Leader should attend the dinner in a show of the United Kingdom. It is a State Visit.

As to the part which I bolded; By the way, HM is the Head of State, but not the Head of Government. The Prime Minister is the Head of Government, Opposition is to the Government, not to HM as Head of State.


.

It's Her Majesty's Government and Her Majesty's Opposition. Those are their correct titles.

Steptoe [aka Corbyn] joins Mr Cable [Lib-dem leader] in refusing to eat with Mr Trump, yet both were more than happy to do so with Xi Jinping..who comes from a country without elections, freedom of expression or basic human rights.
The moral 'double standard' is hard to comprehend...

Corbyn took payment for TV appearances of £20K from Iran, which hangs gay men from cranes. Cable is irrelevant - nobody cares if he's there or not.

Public servants should do what's required of them by their government but there are plenty of private citizens who will protest against Trump, as is their right.

 

[Mbruno]

Corbyn took payment for TV appearances of £20K from Iran, which hangs gay men from cranes. Cable is irrelevant - nobody cares if he's there or not.

Public servants should do what's required of them by their government but there are plenty of private citizens who will protest against Trump, as is their right.

Interestingly, it is customary for Presidents of the United States to meet privately (and separately) with the leader of HM's Opposition during state visits to the UK. That is of course an acknowledgement of the transient nature of any British government and of the fact that the opposition might be in government sometime in a near future. It underscores that the bilateral state relationship between the US and the UK is above partisan politics and is maintained independently of which party is in government in Washington or in Westminster. Refusing to meet Trump would be a big mistake for Corbyn and would go against more than 70 years of British diplomatic practice.

 

[temhbobo]

There's a saying in the military, you salute the rank, not the individual.

Same goes for a state visit. The democratically elected president of the UK's greatest ally should get the royal treatment.

The Sultan of Brunei can walk through London with his head held high and he stones people to death, yet people get in a tizzy over Trump.

Let's keep the politics out of the thread so it doesn't get locked.

Amen. And thank you so much!!!!!!

 

[Fijiro]

The President is both the Head of State and the Head of Government in the US. So, the OP was correct: the invitation is to "the Head of State of one of the UK's closest ally" (i.e. the POTUS).

I agree, the invitation is to the Head of State (POTUS), I did not dispute that, and I even agree that the UK Leader of Opposition should attend because it is a State Visit.

What I said is that in UK, HM is the Head of State, and the Prime Minister is the Head of Government. So I thought that in UK Parliament, the Opposition is to the Government/PM, and not to HM, and I could be wrong cause I don't really know how parliament works there.
.

 

[Pranter]

Steptoe [aka Corbyn] joins Mr Cable [Lib-dem leader] in refusing to eat with Mr Trump, yet both were more than happy to do so with Xi Jinping..who comes from a country without elections, freedom of expression or basic human rights.
The moral 'double standard' is hard to comprehend...

Exactly. Not sure how they justify their decision.


LaRae

 

[VictoriaB]

Personally I don’t think the State Visit should have been offered in the first place. Other than to satisfy Trump’s ego it was entirely unnecessary. If the first US State Visit wasn’t until President Bush (son) was invited, then it seems Britain and America got along very well for over 50 years of the Queen’s reign without one and so it’s not necessary for good relations.

If Bush & then Obama & now Trump gets a State Visit, does this mean other important allies like France, Germany & Ireland get another State Visit every time they get a new head of state - if not, why not. Isn’t an insult to those countries?

Having said that, once the visit was offered, accepted and announced, Corbyn, Cable & Bercow had a responsibility to accept the invitation to the banquet. I don’t see how they (or their predecessors) can sit down with the President of China or President Putin & refuse to sit down with the President of the USA.

There are many objectionable leaders in the world - I cant think of anything positive to say about Trump but I don’t think he’s the worst person leading a country on the planet. Sometimes, it suits Britain’s interests to roll out the red carpet for those objectionable leaders. It’s happened before and it’s going to happen again. If Corbyn wants to be Prime Minister he’s going to have to learn that.

 

[Osipi]

Please correct me if I'm wrong on this but I've always thought that when the Queen issues an invitation to something, its really more like a royal command to attend and to refuse the invitation just isn't done unless there is an absolute good reason other than in Corbyn's case of being "I don't like the guy". To me, it shows that the man is following his own ego and self importance rather than doing what is best for the UK and its foreign relations.

The Queen, herself, is an icon of how diplomats and politicians should conduct themselves and has proven time and time again how to sit down and get along with just about anyone regardless of her personal feelings on the matter. I wish we could bottle that ability and serve it up as a cocktail sometimes.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

The Queen always does what is necessary. I wouldn't expect Prince Philip to be there since he's retired, and he may not actually be in the best of health these days. I'm not sure which other family members will attend. Possibly Prince Charles, Camilla, and the Cambridges. Harry is not keen on formal dinners in any case. He once spoke to a reporter (during a 2012 interview) about having been 'bored' at royal dinner parties: "Dinner parties was the worst bit about being a child..." Of course, Harry is a child no longer.

Personally I don’t think the State Visit should have been offered in the first place. Other than to satisfy Trump’s ego it was entirely unnecessary...

Since Trump is still in office, and the UK government is interested in maintaining normal relations with allies, plus May is intent on brokering a trade deal with Trump (due to Brexit looming), that's why the state visit has been arranged.

...

 

[MaiaMia_53]

...
A British royal state visit is about politics, as well as pomp and circumstance.

... I'm not sure why people would think the Duchess of Sussex isn't capable of sitting through an official function with someone she disagrees with...

Clearly Meghan more than just disagrees with Trump, as I'm sure do other members of the royal family, privately. In any case, Meghan is on record (available on videotape) as having denounced Trump for his misogyny.

We already know some of the questionable things Trump is on record for saying about particular royals, which is beyond the bounds. But sure, what Meghan said as a private U.S. citizen and a Hillary Clinton supporter at the time, does not weigh into her ability to be diplomatic and cordial as a member of the British royal family.

 

[jacqui24]

How is it beyond disagreeing by saying he’s misogynistic? Given that she’s a feminist of course. It’s actually the very definition of disagreeing.

Either way, we’ll see the guest list soon enough.

 

[VictoriaB]

Since Trump is still in office, and the UK government is interested in maintaining normal relations with allies, plus May is intent on brokering a trade deal with Trump (due to Brexit looming), that's why the state visit has been arranged.

Oh, I’m aware of why it was arranged but Britain has needed America’s friendship and good will for many, many years - and that goodwill was forthcoming without the need for a state visit. President Kennedy & Harold MacMillan, Mrs Thatcher & President Reagan had excellent relationships that served both countries well without either being offered a state visit.

Secondly, if you look at it as an invitation by the Queen to the President of the USA and leave out the personalities (as we are rightly being urged to do) the President of the USA has had a state visit twice since 2000.

So while I understand the reason for it, I’m still not convinced it was necessary, even trying to take my personal feelings out of the equation.

And on the subject of personal feelings, I apologise if I offended anyone by my comments about President Trump.

Attendees at the banquet, I would be very surprised if it’s not all the working royals minus Meagan plus Prince & Princess Michael. I don’t think Meagan’s absence has anything at all to do with her personal feelings. Were it not for the fact she will be approximately one month post partum at the time I would have expected she would have been there.

 

[Osipi]

Attendees at the banquet, I would be very surprised if it’s not all the working royals minus Meagan plus Prince & Princess Michael. I don’t think Meagan’s absence has anything at all to do with her personal feelings. Were it not for the fact she will be approximately one month post partum at the time I would have expected she would have been there.

The Queen may request Meghan's presence if she feels up to it for the simple reason that Meghan actually would be a symbol of a bridge between the US and the UK. Meghan is the *only* member of the British royal family that is an American citizen at this time. I think that would count for something especially in the diplomatic arena.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

Ronald Reagan came to Britain on a “State” visit, June 7-9, 1982. This is Listed on the U.S. State Department’s website by the Office of the Historian.
He addressed Parliament.
Other websites call it an “official” visit-it was at Windsor. Very odd.

 

[VictoriaB]

Ronald Reagan came to Britain on a State visit, June 7-9, 1982. Listed on the U.S. State Department’s website by the Office of the Historian.
He addressed Parliament.
Another visit in 1988 is only listed as “met with.”

This may be the case of two countries divided by a common language. According to Buckingham Palace, the first state visit by a President of the USA during the Queen’s reign was by President & Mrs Bush in 2003.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/inward_state_visits_since_1952_2.pdf

The Queen may request Meghan's presence if she feels up to it for the simple reason that Meghan actually would be a symbol of a bridge between the US and the UK. Meghan is the *only* member of the British royal family that is an American citizen at this time. I think that would count for something especially in the diplomatic arena.

Agree wholeheartedly. Were it not for the closeness of her delivery to the visit I would not have doubted Meagan would be there. Even now, If the Queen asks her to go and she is able then I’m sure she will.

 

[ladongas]

Those of us who have had babies know there are very practical reasons to stay close to home with a newborn. You really don’t want to be away from them, breast-feeding or not, and I can’t imagine wearing elegant evening wear in the first weeks postpartum. No way the Queen would force the issue.

 

[MaiaMia_53]

How is it beyond disagreeing by saying he’s misogynistic? Given that she’s a feminist of course. It’s actually the very definition of disagreeing.

Either way, we’ll see the guest list soon enough.

If you read my post, you'll see that I said Meghan 'more than disagrees' with Trump. IOW, she doesn't just disagree with Trump on issues, she's also expressed deep concern regarding his behavior, his comments, and his actions and attitudes toward women, which are well-documented. I'm sure Meghan was prompted to speak out not just because she's a feminist, but because she's also a concerned citizen.

Oh, I’m aware of why it was arranged but Britain has needed America’s friendship and good will for many, many years - and that goodwill was forthcoming without the need for a state visit. President Kennedy & Harold MacMillan, Mrs Thatcher & President Reagan had excellent relationships that served both countries well without either being offered a state visit.

Secondly, if you look at it as an invitation by the Queen to the President of the USA and leave out the personalities (as we are rightly being urged to do) the President of the USA has had a state visit twice since 2000.

So while I understand the reason for it, I’m still not convinced it was necessary, even trying to take my personal feelings out of the equation.

And on the subject of personal feelings, I apologise if I offended anyone by my comments about President Trump...

...

Thanks for your explanation of your previous post. I agree with you. I have been surprised to learn, after doing more reading, that only George W. Bush and Barack Obama were invited to state dinners in the U.K. I thought for sure that the Kennedys had attended a state dinner in Britain. But maybe it was QE-II and Prince Philip who attended a state dinner in the U.S. under Kennedy. If not, then state dinners clearly are not a given.

So I think you are right. But then Theresa May must feel she's backed into a corner because of Brexit. Still, her thinking may be erroneous and kowtowing, as some officials have expressed.

Per Corbyn:
“Maintaining an important relationship with the United States does not require the pomp and ceremony of a State Visit. It is disappointing that the Prime Minister has again opted to kowtow to this US administration."

Corbyn went on to say that he was willing to meet with Trump to "discuss all matters of interest." But that he felt the extension of full state dinner honors had been 'granted inappropriately' by Theresa May's government.

As previously, protests against Trump's visit are being planned.

https://www.politico.eu/article/corbyn-snubs-trump-buckingham-palace/

 

[MaiaMia_53]

The Queen may request Meghan's presence if she feels up to it for the simple reason that Meghan actually would be a symbol of a bridge between the US and the UK. Meghan is the *only* member of the British royal family that is an American citizen at this time. I think that would count for something especially in the diplomatic arena.

There doesn't need to be any 'symbol of a bridge' between the U.S. and the U.K., because I'm not even aware that any 'divide' exists at all. There's certainly no divide between the British people and the American people. This particular state visit is about 'pumping up' Trump's ego to help broker a trade deal (which is sad, in and of itself). The royal family doesn't need Meghan to be diplomatically involved in 'kowtowing' to Trump in order for a trade deal to be worked out. That's never been done before. Why should it be something that the royal family must stoop to now, just because of Theresa May's fears? Let Theresa May handle the additional diplomatic kowtowing, if more is needed.

Corbyn obviously disagrees with May's strategies, regarding the special honor of a state visit being granted to Trump.

Moreover, it really doesn't make any difference that Meghan is the 'only' member of the British royal family that is an American citizen. The British royal family has excellent relations with the United States, regardless of there being an American who recently joined the family. There's no language differences involved, and it's not as if Americans and Britishers haven't intermarried on a regular basis. As we know, Meghan is not the first American to marry into the British royal family.

Trump is not special, and he's not someone who should be catered to because of his huge ego. He's U.S. president, but he does not represent very well. He made a laughing stock of himself during his visit with the Queen at Windsor Castle last year.

 

[muriel]

As to the part which I bolded; By the way, HM is the Head of State, but not the Head of Government. The Prime Minister is the Head of Government, Opposition is to the Government, not to HM as Head of State.


.

It's Her Majesty's Government and Her Majesty's Opposition. Those are their correct titles.

What I said is that in UK, HM is the Head of State, and the Prime Minister is the Head of Government. So I thought that in UK Parliament, the Opposition is to the Government/PM, and not to HM, and I could be wrong cause I don't really know how parliament works there.
.

We Brits tend to do have our own idiosyncratic ways of doing things, not always apparent to an outsider. Some may call it odd, others may consider it charming, but it is what it is.

 

[Osipi]

All I'll say is that if HM, The Queen assents to a state visit on the request of the government of the UK, its OK with me.

I prefer to see it as a state visit from the United States of America to the United Kingdom without attaching any kind of political or character traits of the duly elected sitting President of the United States of America. Personalities should not enter into this whatsoever but rather the relationship between the two countries should be the prime focus.

President Trump actually *is* someone special. He's been elected to the highest office in the United States and deserves and warrants the full respect that office endows on him no matter what the occasion.

 

[JessRulz]

A few posts have been deleted / edited to remove off-topic comments regarding President Trump.

Let this serve as the only reminder that The Royal Forums does not deal in politics unless it is specifically related to the topic of royalty. Trump's character, political dealings, etc do not fall under this banner, and therefore are off-topic both in this thread and at TRF as a whole. Further posts which discuss this will be removed.

 

[wyevale]

Of course [in the past] when HMQ was able to 'wear' Transatlantic travel.. often it was she, and the Duke who paid State visits to the USA...
Sadly that is no longer possible, so if a State visit is deemed desirable it necessarily takes place in the UK..

 

[Mbruno]

A carriage procession is usually done accompanied by huge cheering crowds along the Mall. I wonder if that will be the case now.....

It's better to use the car to get to Buckingham Palace uninterupted and without incidents.

If. I remember it correctly, neither Bush nor Obama did the carriage ride for security reasons. I doubt the Secret Service will allow Trump to do it .


Even though the risk may be smalll, it would still be reckless anyway .

 

[VictoriaB]

Of course [in the past] when HMQ was able to 'wear' Transatlantic travel.. often it was she, and the Duke who paid State visits to the USA...
Sadly that is no longer possible, so if a State visit is deemed desirable it necessarily takes place in the UK..

Although not as many as I expected - 4 visits to the US in 66 years.

https://www.royal.uk/sites/default/files/media/outbound_state_visits_since_1952_0.pdf