Russian Imperial and Other Titles

[Toledo]

I know that the internet is not the most reliable source of information to go by but the web says that Czar is equal to a King and not a Emperor. I doubt that is true because I have only seen one web page with this claim all other claims I have seen it states a Czar is equal to a Emperor which I do believe.

From memory (anyone can correct me or add to this, I'm about to log off for the night) Czar/Tsar/Kaiser and all it's variations are based on the roman empire title Caesar after Julius Caesar. His name became a title just as Augustus name was used by the emperor's wife as the Augusta.

I've seen a similar situation with the Bonaparte family, in the 19th century one of the leaders decided to use Napoleon's name as a new surname for the main branch that heads the family. So, a name became something else.

 

[Warren]

... Czar is equal to a King and not a Emperor.

It depends on the country. Russia was an Empire therefore the Czar was an Emperor. In Bulgaria, from 1908 the Tsar (Foxy Ferdinand) was a King.

 

[Toledo]

Foxy Ferdinand! That made me smile for the day!
Warren, I did not know you knew of the little secret history of King Ferdinand's and his...er..friends.

 

[Warren]

Foxy Ferdinand! That made me smile for the day!
Warren, I did not know you knew of the little secret history of King Ferdinand's and his...er..friends.

I think your'e referring to his attendants and picnic companions. Not so secret.

 

[branchg]

My question is about the so-called title "Prince/Princess of Russia." Some very respectable online geneaologies, including Peerage.com, use this for some of the Romanov descendents. But when did this title come into use? Before the revolution, this was unheard of. There was no such thing.
Another one that is equally confusing is "Prince/Princess Romanov/a" because this, also, was not existing in the true Tsarist times.
Who conferred these new titles? When? Was is only for the purpose of giving a courtesy to the family? Did other royal families recognize these titles? I know, obviously, the Soviet Union could never recognize them.

Prince of Russia?! It's so weird to me! Who made this up and why couldn't they use something that was actually "real" for Russian history?

Only great-grandchildren in the male line of the Tsar were permitted to be a Prince/Princess of Russia with the style of Serene Highness. The eldest male successors of the original holder was permitted to retain this style provided they married equally. HH Prince/Princess of Russia was allowed to the grandchildren of the Tsar in the male line, with the eldest male grandson granted the style of Imperial Highness and Grand Duke of Russia.

The current descendants are not royal, but morganatic agnates of imperial dynasts. They style themselves "Prince/Princess Romanov", but there was no such title in Imperial Russia.

 

[Benjamin]

Though the morganauts without titles given by the Head of House don't have a solid claim to being "HH Prince/Princess Romanov", couldn't they legitimately use the title Prince/Princess of Holstein-Gottorp?

 

[kelausha]

The title of Grand Duke/Duchess with the style of Imperial Highness was given to the children and male line grandchildren of the Emporer.
Great-grandchildren were Prince/ss with the style of His/Her Highness. The eldest son of a great grandson was also HH.
All other members of the family were Prince/ss with the style of His/Her Serene Highness.

Example: HIM Emperor Nicholas I- (his son) HIH Grand Duke Constantine Nicholaievich- (grandson) HIH Grand Duke Constantine Constantinovich- (great-grandson) HH Prince Ivan Constantinovich-(great-great-granddaughter) HSH Princess Ekaterina Ivanovna.

 

[kelausha]

HSH Princess Ekaterina Ivanovna died recently ( March 13). She was the last member of the Imperial Family of Russia to be born prior to the revolution. She lived 1915-2007.

 

[Queen of Kings]

the Tsarina was equal to a Queen

Not Tsarina but Tsaritsa
Tsarevna- princess

 

[Next Star]

Is Grand Duchess the second highest title of a female member of the imperial Russian family behind Empress?

 

[Royalist0007]

Yes... but, I think, it is the title of Erzherzog that corresponds to Russian Velikiy knyaz best; not as a translation, of course.

Erzherzog is actually the German for Archduke,whereas,Grossherzog is the title of a sovereign Grand Duke.The Hungarian,'Herceg',is where the name 'Hercegovina' as in Bosnia-Hercegovina comes from.

Aidan.

 

[branchg]

Is Grand Duchess the second highest title of a female member of the imperial Russian family behind Empress?

Yes, it is. A Grand Duchess was the wife of a Grand Duke, a daughter or male-line granddaughter of the Tsar.

 

[chancellor]

Current Orders and Rewards from the Imperial House

Main page / of order and reward
Orders and the rewards

Establishment of orders and other decorations. Vol. I H. 2. St. Petersburg, 1892 (publication of the codification division of the Council of State ]:
Ct. 85. "orders are established into honor and reward of merits in the field of civil and military valors and exploits, and in the encouragement of jealousy to good and benefit of the fatherland"
St. 86. "orders be: 1) Apostle Andrey pervozvanny's Order SV; 2) The order SV of velikomuchenitsy Of Ekaterinas; 3) Aleksandr nevskiy's Order SV; 4) White Orel's Order; 5) the military order SV of martyr and Pobedonostsa of Georgiy; 6) Ravnoapostol'nogo Prince Vladimir's Order SV; 7) The order SV of Annas; 8) The order SV of Stanislav "
St. 87. "The orders SV of apostle Andrey, SV of Ekaterinas, Sv. Aleksandr of Nevskiy, Sv. Georgiy. Sv. Vladimir and Sv. Anna are emperor orders, and orders of white Orel and Sv. Stanislav by emperor and tsarist orders "
[ the establishment of orders and other decorations. Vol. I H. 2. St. Petersburg, 1892 (publication of the codification division of the Council of State ].



Statute of medal "for zeal and help"
Position about the sign with the venzelevym image of the highest name of the chapter of the Russian emperor house
Rewards Of the Russian Emperor House

Sign with the venzelevym image of the name of the chapter of Russian Emperor House of HIH GD Maria of Russia
Sign with the venzelevym image of name YE.I.V. Vdovstvuyushchey Sovereign HIH GD Leonida of Russia
Medal "for zeal and help" with the venzelevym image of the highest name
Russian emperor and tsarist orders

Emperor Order Of Holy Apostle Andrey Pervozvanny
Emperor order of Holy Velikomuchenitsy of Ekaterinas or release
Emperor Order Of Holy Blagovernogo Great Prince Aleksandr nevskiy
Emperor and tsarist order of white Orel
Emperor Military Order Of the holy Martyr Of Georgiy Pobedonosts
Emperor Order Of holy Ravnoapostol'nogo Great Prince Vladimir
Emperor Order Of Holy Anna
Emperor Military Order Of Nikolai chudotvorts's Svyatitelya
Emperor and tsarist order of Holy Stanislav
Emperor Order Of holy Mikhail Arkhangel
Decoration (order) in Holy Ravnoapostol'noy Princess Olga

 

[chancellor]

titles under the Russian Tradition Order of St John

For any body interested in the Russian Tradition of the Soveriegn Military Order of St John

here are web links, titles given as Knights of various grades.

The Grand Priors of the Russian Grand Priory.

Genealogy Table of Protectors of the Russian Grand Priory

The History of the British Priory

The Corps des Pages, Russia's Dream of Chivalry

Wayback Machine Temporarily Offline

Russian Grand Priory - Time Line.

History of the Russian Grand Priory in Exile.

Survival of Russian Tradition

Report concerning the Treaty to establish Orthodox Commanderies.

On the road to reconciliation - THE SUNDAY TIMES (Malta).

 

[sinulord]

And I thought the British system was confusing... oy!

In fact the British system is clear cut and precise. The Russian titles especially those that deal with morganatic unions and their descendants really sounds complicated.

 

[ysbel]

Russian Titles

Hello I was thinking it would be a help to have a list of the original Russian titles with their common counterparts in English.

Russian English
Russian ? English czar, tsar
Russian Царица (Tzatitsa) English - czarina, tsarina, tsaritsa
Russian ? English czarevich, czarevitch, tsarevitch, tsarevich
Russian ? English czarevna, tsarevna
Russian Великий Князь (Velikiy Knyaz); Великая Княгиня (Velikaia Kniaginia) or Великая Княжна (Velikaia Knazhna) English grand duke; grand duchess (sometimes Grand Prince, Grand Princess)
Russian ? English count
Russiaan? English prince, princess

As you can see, in English we have several spellings for the same title, I was just wondering what the actual Russian terms are.

 

[sofajr]

I think tsar and czar are correct, but I have no idea what Tsarina means. there is name Tsaritsa in russian.

 

[Al_bina]

According to Longman and Oxford online dictionaries, there is such word “tzaritsa”. The following versions of the female Russian Imperial title are available: tsarina, tzarina, and czarina.

 

[ysbel]

I have a feeling that tsaritsa, tsarina and czarina are English versions of the Russian term.

What is the Russian term for the wife of the head of the Russian empire? Can you spell it in Russian characters?

 

[Al_bina]

The Russian term for the wife of the head of the Russian empire is Tzatitsa, which is spelt as "Царица" in Russian.

 

[ysbel]

Thanks Al_bina. I've updated the list above.

If anyone has the Russian terms for any of the other Russian titles, just post them here and I will update the list.

The Russian language can be quite confusing to the rest of us.

 

[Madame Royale]

Grand Duke - Великий Князь

Grand Duchess - Великая Княгиня or Великая Княжна

 

[ysbel]

Thanks Madame Royale. I will update the list. Do you have the Western alphabet spelling of the Russian words? If you don't, I think I may have a Russian-English dictionary that maps the Russian and Western alphabets together.

 

[Madame Royale]

Великий Князь - Velikiy Knyaz - Grand Duke

Великая Княгиня - Velikaia Kniaginia

Великая Княжна - Velikaia Knazhna

The daughters and male line granddaughters of the Tsar, and the wife of a Russian Grand Duke.

Usually translated into English and French as Grand Duchess, though the literal definition being Grand Princess.

You're welcome, ysbel.

 

[ysbel]

Thanks again Madame Royale! The list is getting complete. I think the term Grand Prince is a more literal translation of the Russian term Velikiy Knyaz, is that correct?

 

[Anna was Franziska]

On the AP, the statuses are Russian titles, and you get a higher Russian title the more posts you get.

 

[Madame Royale]

Thanks again Madame Royale! The list is getting complete. I think the term Grand Prince is a more literal translation of the Russian term Velikiy Knyaz, is that correct?

That's correct, ysbel.

Sorry I forgot to mention that one...

 

[Picmajik]

Newly corrected translation?

why do you call Alexandra Fedorovna Tzarina? the correct name is Tzaritsa!
and I have to say that Picul is not a reliable sourse as well Radzinsky, they have a lot of fiction in novels.

When I first started reading about the Romanovs in the 70's all translations from Russian to English said Tsar and Tsarina/Czarina. I didn't know it had been revised to be Tsaritsa until recently reading again after finding the Royal Forums and Wikipedia. I don't think that most speakers of English would know the difference unless they were interested in the topic.
I always wanted to learn Russian but that wasn't available in my high school or college in the 70s, it is becoming more common now after the opening of the former Soviet Union.

In Russian was it always Tsaritsa instead of Tsarina? I wouldn't know and I'm wondering how it was mistranslated at first. You would think the British Royal Family would know the difference and insist on correct styling/translation if it were incorrect.

 

[Al_bina]

In my opinion, the word "Tsaritsa" is not a translation exactly, but rather direct transliteration of the Russian word. This word has been altered to Tsarina/Csarina/Tzarina in the English language.

 

[Anna was Franziska]

When I first started reading about the Romanovs in the 70's all translations from Russian to English said Tsar and Tsarina/Czarina.

The books used to spell it "Czar" most of the time. It took me a long time to take to "Tsar".

I always wanted to learn Russian but that wasn't available in my high school or college in the 70s, it is becoming more common now after the opening of the former Soviet Union.

The year I was moving up from Jr. High to High school, (1976) the high school got a Russian class. My English teacher, who knew I was obsessed with the Romanovs, recommended me for it and told me I'd love it. I took it as an elective, but after school was out I started getting intimidated by the cyrillic alphabet, and like a dummy, walked up to the school and dropped it for- choke- home ec. Yes, I have regretted this over and over, and even more today than then.

Ironically, about 10 of the fifteen people who did take the class that year ended up being very dear friends of mine later- though we didn't know each other at the time! I guess it was destiny that we ended up finding each other anyway, but still it would have been so much fun in there with them, had I only known.

*kicks self for the 1,000th time*