Restoration of Monarchy in Portugal

[Blog Real]

Is there any other serious claimant? The current Braganca branch of Dom Duarte Pio is the only one left.

There is a man named Poidinami who claims to be heir to an alleged daughter bastada of King d. Carlos. But few take it seriously.

We also have the Duke of Loulé, but few support. And he just pops up ...

Yes the only serious and who works for the Portuguese monarchy is d. Duarte. And is the legitimate heir of the Portuguese Crown.

 

[Cory]

Probably the young Prince of Beira could become even more popular than his father even if he seems too shy.

 

[Blog Real]

Monarquia ou República: porque não podemos escolher? - Jornal O DIABO

Parlamento admite proposta do PPM para alteração Ã* Constituição - Açoriano Oriental

In an interview with i, Duarte talked about the republican model Portuguese and other European countries, considering that the country can still host the royal family.
When asked if there really is a chance to get back in Portugal monarchy, Duarte said yes, "it's possible". "It is necessary that the Constitution be changed because the current one is forbidden to be a referendum in which the Portuguese to choose," noted the Duke of Bragança.

"For the sake of democracy, this issue should be openly discussed partly because many Republicans argue that no harm would be no that Portugal had a king head of state," said Duarte. It was also noted that if he could choose, Duarte adopt the currently existing model in Luxembourg, "the country with more economic success of Europe."
Noticias ao Minuto - Monarquia pode regressar? "Acredito que é possível"

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

On this picture Dom Duarte Pio poses in front of the royal arms. I notice a lambel (a brisure, a label) on the arms. In European heraldry in general, such a lambel was used to mark a younger son or a cadency to indicate the junior branches (cadets) of a House.

That makes me wonder: does this mean that the Orléans-Bragança family in Brazil indeed is considered the senior branch and the Bragança family in Portugal the younger branch? Genealogically this is, but I assumed the two Houses were split in a House of Orléans-Bragança (Brazil) and a House of Bragança (Portugal), considering themselves different Houses in one dynasty. They also use two total different arms.

The Arms of the House of Bragança (here without lambel):

The Arms of the House of Orléans-Bragança:
The left shows the Arms of the House of Orléans and the right the Arms of Bragança (Brazil) with the same Arms of the House of Orléans in the cross:

Compare it with the Bourbons in France. When the last French Bourbon claimant died in 1883, the chef of the House of Orléans considered himself the most senior Prince in the House of France and removed the lambel from the Orléans Arms:

House of Orléans until 1883:
In azure proper three golden fleurs-de-lys with a silver lambel.
It shows it as a junior branch of the House of France.

House of Orléans, after 1883:
In azure proper three golden fleurs-de-lys.
It shows it as the senior branch of the House of France.

My conclusion: Dom Duarte Pio stands in front of the "wrong" arms? Maybe an ancient one which was once in use for a younger Prince?

 

[Blog Real]

PPM advocates in 2016 a constitutional monarchy

The Party Monarchist Popular (PPM) Wood "makes a positive assessment of their debut year in the region, but want more in 2016, which involves the continuation of the work so far carried out and the number of militants growth," begins by noting a text sent to the editorial by the political project coordinator in Madeira.

For John Noronha, "the PPM was presented for the first time, even in a coalition in regional elections and that was the starting point to ultimately deploy the party in Madeira," adding that "the election of a regional direction and then the legislative elections, even without the expected result, was leading to it was possible to transmit our ideals, having increased the number of militants ".

So for 2016 calls for "strengthening and growing number of militants, the municipal election and more work in direct contact with the population," which "will certainly cause the Madeira and Porto Santo understand with more depth what we want for the region and throughout the country, "he said.

John Noronha ensures that the party will continue its "struggle for health and free education and quality by strengthening municipalism and return of parishes, for an environmental policy, in defense of culture and our traditions." He adds: "Bet truly in agriculture and fisheries, by humanism and socias policies and a constituicional monarchy similar to the kingdoms that have the best quality of life in Europe."

Elsewhere, points out that "PPM Wood points the finger to a weary Republic in 100 years and early on in 1910, left Portugal in a chaotic state, followed by 40 years of dictatorship and now a democracy full of corruption, troikas , poverty, always in defense interests of the powerful, failed banks, "concludes in favor of the monarchy.

PPM preconiza em 2016 uma Monarquia Constitucional | DNOTICIAS.PT

 

[Blog Real]

The Popular Party Monarchist presented to the Assembly of the Republic a draft resolution recommending that what for many Portuguese, became an obvious and urgent need to amend the Constitution of the order to allow free and direct suffrage of the political regime - monarchy or Republic - I want to live.

The project, presented by the Azorean regional deputy Paul Stephen, after previously approved by the Legislative Assembly of the Autonomous Region of the Azores, was rejected by the then president of the national parliament, Assunção Esteves, based on regulatory pretexts.

At issue is, again, a small paragraph of the Constitution in force, which for years has been challenged in the monarchical means (and even less partisan Republicans means): paragraph b) of Article 288. The passage concerning the "material limits" imposed in case of constitutional review, this - says the fundamental law - "must respect" a "republican form of government." The protesters suggest a simple change of a word: the fundamental law provides, alternatively, "the democratic form of the state".

The struggle for change that paragraph of the Constitution comes from afar. As soon as the initial version was approved in 1976, several constitutional and numerous politicians challenged the consecration of the republican regime as mandatory - even more so, as indisputable, since the law expressly prohibits any constitutional changes that come into question.
Over the years, the center-right parties have treated the issue with some embarrassment: first, do not wish to disturb the forces and figures that make system-standing finca in constitutional republicanism; on the other, it is undeniable that Article 288 is the negation of democracy itself, by preventing the people (theoretically "sovereign") to choose the political system it wants.
Monarquia ou República: porque não podemos escolher?

 

[Marengo]

If I understand it correctly, they want a referendum about the monarchy? Wouldn't that be a waste of money considering a very small group is in favor of a monarchy?

 

[Blog Real]

If I understand it correctly, they want a referendum about the monarchy? Wouldn't that be a waste of money considering a very small group is in favor of a monarchy?

There has never been a referendum in Portugal for the Portuguese decided between monarchy and republic. The monarchy to have some support in Portugal.

 

[Mbruno]

On this picture Dom Duarte Pio poses in front of the royal arms. I notice a lambel (a brisure, a label) on the arms. In European heraldry in general, such a lambel was used to mark a younger son or a cadency to indicate the junior branches (cadets) of a House.

That makes me wonder: does this mean that the Orléans-Bragança family in Brazil indeed is considered the senior branch and the Bragança family in Portugal the younger branch? Genealogically this is, but I assumed the two Houses were split in a House of Orléans-Bragança (Brazil) and a House of Bragança (Portugal), considering themselves different Houses in one dynasty. They also use two total different arms.

The Arms of the House of Bragança (here without lambel):

The Arms of the House of Orléans-Bragança:
The left shows the Arms of the House of Orléans and the right the Arms of Bragança (Brazil) with the same Arms of the House of Orléans in the cross:

Compare it with the Bourbons in France. When the last French Bourbon claimant died in 1883, the chef of the House of Orléans considered himself the most senior Prince in the House of France and removed the lambel from the Orléans Arms:

House of Orléans until 1883:
In azure proper three golden fleurs-de-lys with a silver lambel.
It shows it as a junior branch of the House of France.

House of Orléans, after 1883:
In azure proper three golden fleurs-de-lys.
It shows it as the senior branch of the House of France.

My conclusion: Dom Duarte Pio stands in front of the "wrong" arms? Maybe an ancient one which was once in use for a younger Prince?

I don't know the answer, but I suspect the undifferentiated arms (without brisure) denote the descendants of Pedro IV (the senior branch of the House of Braganza) while the labeled arms refer to the descendants of Pedro IV's brother, D. Miguel, which is indeed a cadet branch.

 

[Blog Real]

Young Monarchists argue for return of Monarchy report broadcast on TVI in "Jornal da Uma" on 29-Nov-2016.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuoEnHShQhE

 

[Blog Real]

Nearly 2,000 want to include Duke of Bragança in the State protocol

Since Saturday, an electronic public petition has brought together nearly 2,000 signatures of citizens who want the Duke of Bragança included in the State protocol, through the amendment to the 2006 legislation.

Among the 1,770 petitioners are the mayor of Porto, Rui Moreira, Lobo Xavier, and many other figures of CDS-PP and PSD, but also the political scientist Adelino Maltez or the writer Rui Zink, as well as the historian Jaime Nogueira Pinto and the businessmen Paulo Azevedo and Paulo Teixeira Pinto.

"The current law is from 2006, and when it was discussed, this issue has already been put in place and a version has finally been approved and completely excluded. After 10 years, there were institutions and people who thought it would be good to raise the issue because there are some difficulties Protocols when d. Duarte Pio, who is regularly invited to events, in his framework, "said to Lusa one of the promoters of the petition" Inclusion of the Duke of Bragança in the Law of the State Protocol, "Tomás Moreira.

The head of the royal association, Causa Real, a 59-year-old businessman, said the objective is to be discussed in the Assembly of the Republic. The petitions, once admitted in São Bento by a parliamentary committee, are handed over to a Member to take the appropriate steps. If you have more than 1,000 signatures, the authors have to be heard by Parliament. After 4,000, the subject has to be taken to plenary.

"As head of the House of Braganza, [Notes: Duarte Pio] has been invited to participate in official events, important moments in the life of the State, especially when involving the participation of world royalty in ceremonies of historical or cultural celebration, in the Foreigner, as a representative of the Portuguese community, in events of a cultural, humanitarian or religious nature, "is justified in the text.

The petition claims to be "recognition by the Portuguese State that the head of the House of Bragança is, even under the current Republican regime, the legitimate successor of the kings of Portugal" and that "the maturity of the republican regime should allow the formalization of this relationship , To include treatment due to the Duke of Bragança in the Law of Precedence of the Protocol of the Portuguese State, "as" already happens with the foreign and international entities, diplomatic, religious, university and social partners. "

Another former mayor, Carmona Rodrigues, current and former deputies and Christian Democratic leaders like Diogo Feio, Nuno Melo, Telmo Correia, Mota Soares, but also journalists and writers Miguel Esteves Cardoso, Eduardo Cintra Torres and Henrique Raposo, as well as the cook Hélio Loureiro, figure among the list of subscribers.

SIC Notícias | Quase 2 mil querem incluir duque de Bragança no protocolo de Estado

 

[Marengo]

the petition has been supported by more than 6000 people. More than enough to take the matter to parlament.

The petition has been supported by 50 public figures, mainly (former) politicians from the right.

Petição quer incluir duque de Bragança no protocolo de Estado - Atualidade - SAPO 24

https://www.publico.pt/2017/04/08/p...uerem-d-duarte-no-protocolo-do-estado-1768157

https://sol.sapo.pt/artigo/557472/deputados-e-autarcas-ao-lado-de-d-duarte

You can still sign the petition here:
Assinar Petição : Inclusão do Duque de Bragança na Lei do Protocolo do Estado

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it is a neat and a realistic suggestion. The monarchy will not be restored again but a formal recognition of the former Royal House and giving it a place in state ceremonies and protocol is actually a very good idea.

 

[Mbruno]

Nearly 2,000 want to include Duke of Bragança in the State protocol

Since Saturday, an electronic public petition has brought together nearly 2,000 signatures of citizens who want the Duke of Bragança included in the State protocol, through the amendment to the 2006 legislation.

Among the 1,770 petitioners are the mayor of Porto, Rui Moreira, Lobo Xavier, and many other figures of CDS-PP and PSD, but also the political scientist Adelino Maltez or the writer Rui Zink, as well as the historian Jaime Nogueira Pinto and the businessmen Paulo Azevedo and Paulo Teixeira Pinto.

"The current law is from 2006, and when it was discussed, this issue has already been put in place and a version has finally been approved and completely excluded. After 10 years, there were institutions and people who thought it would be good to raise the issue because there are some difficulties Protocols when d. Duarte Pio, who is regularly invited to events, in his framework, "said to Lusa one of the promoters of the petition" Inclusion of the Duke of Bragança in the Law of the State Protocol, "Tomás Moreira.

The head of the royal association, Causa Real, a 59-year-old businessman, said the objective is to be discussed in the Assembly of the Republic. The petitions, once admitted in São Bento by a parliamentary committee, are handed over to a Member to take the appropriate steps. If you have more than 1,000 signatures, the authors have to be heard by Parliament. After 4,000, the subject has to be taken to plenary.

"As head of the House of Braganza, [Notes: Duarte Pio] has been invited to participate in official events, important moments in the life of the State, especially when involving the participation of world royalty in ceremonies of historical or cultural celebration, in the Foreigner, as a representative of the Portuguese community, in events of a cultural, humanitarian or religious nature, "is justified in the text.

The petition claims to be "recognition by the Portuguese State that the head of the House of Bragança is, even under the current Republican regime, the legitimate successor of the kings of Portugal" and that "the maturity of the republican regime should allow the formalization of this relationship , To include treatment due to the Duke of Bragança in the Law of Precedence of the Protocol of the Portuguese State, "as" already happens with the foreign and international entities, diplomatic, religious, university and social partners. "

Another former mayor, Carmona Rodrigues, current and former deputies and Christian Democratic leaders like Diogo Feio, Nuno Melo, Telmo Correia, Mota Soares, but also journalists and writers Miguel Esteves Cardoso, Eduardo Cintra Torres and Henrique Raposo, as well as the cook Hélio Loureiro, figure among the list of subscribers.

SIC Notícias | Quase 2 mil querem incluir duque de Bragança no protocolo de Estado

There seems to be now this odd trend in some European countries of not restoring the monarchy, but giving the former royal family some kind of official ceremonial role. They did it in Romania, and now there is talk it might happen also in Portugal (although it is still unlikely at this point). I wonder what the TRF members think about that.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I think it is a good development. A restoration back to a system in which a head of state is "delivered" by birthright is not realistic. This is the best they can get. This means that the Duke and Duchess of Bragança as well the Prince of Beira will be involved in ceremonies or protocols of state. Nothing wrong with that, I think.

Compare it with republics in which often all former presidents are invited as well to attend a ceremony of state. Picture: former presidents attending a state ceremony.

 

[Marengo]

I suppose it depends if the people in question are intersted of course. I assume they will not get any money for attending such events. But attendance at a regular basis comes with quite some costs; especially when the duchess is invited too. The Portuguese RF is not a rich one. I can imagine that the prince of Beira will need to hold a regular job to provide for himself and a future family.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Maybe the State can provide assistance when needed and give a reimbursement for costs of representation. It is all "small money" on a State Budget. When the Duke or Duchess of Braganca attend the State Funeral of -let us say- a former monarch, then they can get (logistic and facilitary) assistance from the Embassy.

Maybe the Duke can make use of assistance from the Prime Minister's Office or from the armed forces. As we see in Romania, a residence in use, some staffing, some assistance, some ceremonial provided by the armed forces, that seems already sufficient to let a "Court organization" work.

It would be nice that when a royal visits Portugal, there is also an audience with the Duke and Duchess of Braganca. Comparable with Romania, last week, where Princess Margareta received the Prince of Wales in audience at Elisabeta Palace.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

Portuguese Restoration Prospects

Anything new lately in the Kingdom of Spain's neighbor? Personally I'd either like to see a restored Kingdom of Portugal or a United Kingdom of Iberia, either way it's monarchist in the end. What do you guys think?

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Countessmeout]

Anything new lately in the Kingdom of Spain's neighbor? Personally I'd either like to see a restored Kingdom of Portugal or a United Kingdom of Iberia, either way it's monarchist in the end. What do you guys think?

-Frozen Royalist

The chances of any country restoring a monarchy are slim to none. Romania and Albania being the onl exceptions IMO. The longer a country has not had a monarchy, the less likely. Unlike Spain which was under a dictator's control, a dictator who gave the throne back on his death, Portugal has been a republic since 1910. Save for one attempt to restore the monarchy, which lasted one month, the democracy has firmly taken root.

Even less likely is an united kingdom. Its one thing to consider Portugal going back to a king (even if figure head), but to give up its independence??? The union of the kingdoms lasted 60 years, and fell 377 years ago. Whose royal house would rule? Spain's or Portugal's? To suggest an independent country would not only give up being a republic but being an independent country, seems far out there.

It would be like suggesting the US decide to join back with the UK.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

About my United Kingdom of Iberia proposal, the reason why I brought that up was because Iberian Federalism was a bit of a thing during the economic crisis and it just stuck with me no matter how ludicrous it seemed. As for royal dynasty for Iberia, just give it to the Bourbons because you're uniting it under Spain anyway.

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Countessmeout]

About my United Kingdom of Iberia proposal, the reason why I brought that up was because Iberian Federalism was a bit of a thing during the economic crisis and it just stuck with me no matter how ludicrous it seemed. As for royal dynasty for Iberia, just give it to the Bourbons because you're uniting it under Spain anyway.

-Frozen Royalist

That's a sure fire way to win a referendum to return to a monarchy

Not only are we going to boot the president, but we want you to be handed over to Spain. ?

If Portugal was going to restore its monarch, it would be ITS MONARCH, Duarte Pio, Duke of Braganza. Unlike other pretenders who go by King, Duarte doesn't.

There hasn't been an Iberian federalist movement since the 19th century. It quickly faded in the 20th century. And was never supported by the other parts of Iberia, Gibralter and Andora.

 

[Frozen Royalist]

Yeah I'm actually more of a fan of a United Kingdom of Iberia then I am of an independent Kingdom of Portugal. In most of my alternate history works it is a United Kingdom of Iberia with other stuff here and there. We're getting off topic about Portuguese restorations aren't we?

-Frozen Royalist

 

[Blog Real]

That doesn't make any sense. I'm a Portuguese monarchy and want the monarchy to be restored. We have some monarchists movements in Portugal (Real cause, Portuguese Monarchic Youth). It is not known how many monarchists exist in Portugal.

 

[Lee-Z]

Yeah I'm actually more of a fan of a United Kingdom of Iberia then I am of an independent Kingdom of Portugal. In most of my alternate history works it is a United Kingdom of Iberia with other stuff here and there. We're getting off topic about Portuguese restorations aren't we?

-Frozen Royalist

You do realise that Spain and Portugal are actually two completely different countries and have been for longer than the USA became independent from GB?

 

[Andy T]

The longer a country has not had a monarchy, the less likely. Unlike Spain which was under a dictator's control, a dictator who gave the throne back on his death, Portugal has been a democratic republic since 1910. Save for one attempt to restore the monarchy, which lasted one month, the democracy has firmly taken root.

While it's true that the Portuguese monarchy was abolished in 1910, there's NO way you can say that Portugal has been a "democratic republic" since then. For almost all of the time from 1910 until after the 1974 revolution, it was either in a state of turmoil, under military rule and, ultimately, a fascist dictatorship, complete with secret police, torture, banishment, imprisonment and assassinations of political 'enemies' of the regime.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The Duke and Duchess of Braganca have a recognized status in Portugal. A few weeks ago we saw the Duchess fantastically bejewelled at an official State Banquet as guest of the President (Dutch State Visit). In other former monarchies they can only dream of this.

More or less similar are the situations in Serbia and Romania, where the former royal families are given a sort of semi-official status in the state protocol. That is the best they can achieve. I don't see Portugal, Serbia and Romania swapping their democratically elected heads of state for a system in which -for an example- the Swiss-born British child of the second daughter of the former King of Romania becomes Queen Elisabeta of Romania indeed.

The Duke and Duchess of Braganza may be happy with their position. That is the best they can have in 2017.

 

[JR76]

The Duke and Duchess of Braganca have a recognized status in Portugal. A few weeks ago we saw the Duchess fantastically bejewelled at an official State Banquet as guest of the President (Dutch State Visit). In other former monarchies they can only dream of this.

More or less similar are the situations in Serbia and Romania, where the former royal families are given a sort of semi-official status in the state protocol. That is the best they can achieve. I don't see Portugal, Serbia and Romania swapping their democratically elected heads of state for a system in which -for an example- the Swiss-born British child of the second daughter of the former King of Romania becomes Queen Elisabeta of Romania indeed.

The Duke and Duchess of Braganza may be happy with their position. That is the best they can have in 2017.

Am I right in that the Braganzas semi-official position is just out of courtesy and not in anyway regulated like that of the former Montenegrin Royal family and eventually soon the Romanian Royal family?

 

[Blog Real]

Am I right in that the Braganzas semi-official position is just out of courtesy and not in anyway regulated like that of the former Montenegrin Royal family and eventually soon the Romanian Royal family?

Yes, it's just courtesy.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Of course it is courtesy. Like in Romania and Serbia. What else can it be? There is no legal ground to treat citizen X differently to citizen Y. It is purely based on goodwill, sympathy and recognition of the role a family or an individual played.

 

[clauborges88]

Am I right in that the Braganzas semi-official position is just out of courtesy and not in anyway regulated like that of the former Montenegrin Royal family and eventually soon the Romanian Royal family?

Exactly, it's just out of courtesy. The monarchists in Portugal are a very small number and they're not actively promoting a restoration atm. I've personally only met one person who was a monarchist and it was something of a family tradition, not a strong belief.

The chances of a monarchy being restored in Portugal are next to 0. In fact, the Braganza Monarchs are lightly but frequently made fun of on television by comedians.