Prince Harry and Meghan Markle: Church Service, Carriage Procession - May 19, 2018

[Juliette2]

So does the mention of slavery make you uncomfortable? Because part of the bride's family were slaves. I see nothing inappropriate with facing facts.

Yes, Harry's family has welcomed Meghan into the family, but that doesn't change history.


Facebook and Instagram are more than brands, they are a part of modern culture and communication.

No, mentioning slavery does not make me uncomfortable at all (of course it's part of history a VERY sad part of US history) but I don't suffer from white man (woman)'s guilt either. I was born in this century and while history should never be forgotten, after 150 years, I think it's time we look at the present and the future especially at a beautiful wedding which, again is proof of how much has changed in the past 150 years. If you are at a Jewish wedding do you mention concentration camps just because it's a fact? Or if you're marrying an Italian couple do you bring up Mussolini or Al Capone's victims just because they're "facts"?


Sadly, you're right, Facebook and Instagram are part of today's world but that doesn't make them good. You'll let me know when you won't be able to tell if the person in front of you is a real human or a product of AI...(going OT just now...! Sorry!). It's just that in Church, could we be a little more spiritual? Focused? It can be a joyous occasion and still have some seriousness instead of entertainment. But, fine, ok, if you don't get my point of view, it's ok, it doesn't matter!

 

[Alliec76]

Agreed. Anyone who was uncomfortable with such a beautiful message needs to look within and ask themselves why and do a little personal growth.

They know why. And we know why. But apparently no one is allowed to say why. I refuse to play this game with people.

 

[texankitcat]

This is what Rev. Curry said about Martin Luther King (who, by the way, had a doctorate in theology and was a Baptist minister):

"Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. once said: 'We must discover the power of love, the redemptive power of love. And when we discover that, we will be able to make of this old world a new world. Love is the only way."

This is the reference he made to slavery:

"Someone once said that Jesus began the most revolutionary movement in all of human history: a movement grounded in the unconditional love of God for the world. A movement mandating people to live that love, and in so doing, to change not only their lives, but the very life of the world itself. I am talking about some power. Real power. Power to change the world. If you don’t believe me, well, there were some old slaves in America’s Antebellum South who explained the dynamic power of love, and why it has the power to transform. They explained it this way. They sang a spiritual, even in the midst of their captivity. It’s the one that says there is a balm in Gilead—a healing balm.

There is a balm in Gilead to make the wounded whole. There is a balm in Gilead to heal the sin-sick soul. One of the stanzas actually explains why: if you cannot preach like Peter, and you cannot pray like Paul, you just tell the love of Jesus, how he died to save us all. That’s the balm of Gilead."

In both cases he CLEARLY used those references to illustrate the power of love.

And you think they were unsuitable for a wedding????????? And it was done for Rev. Curry's political purposes????????

Go figure.

Oh dear God. Are we really going to go through the entire sermon paragraph per paragragh? No please....

 

[Gawin]

Oh dear God. Are we really going to go through the entire sermon paragraph per paragragh? No please....

I very clearly did this in response to another poster who thought the sermon was inappropriate. I posted the relevant parts of the sermon to show it wasn't.

 

[Juliette2]

Are we really doing this? Having this conversation? And no one is going to state the obvious? We are just supposed to be ok with our heritage being mocked? Just because something is unfamiliar to you does not make it unsuitable or wrong. I'm sorry I'm not going to sit back and let this go unchallenged. I as a woman of color should not have to bite my tounge or dance around the obvious, when my heritage and way of worship is being mocked and deemed out of place, just to keep the peace. I have to do that enough in real life. But since those seem to be the rules, this is not the place for me. I am out.

I'm sorry, but you're really, really misunderstanding. It has NOTHING to do with race. Where is your heritage being mocked?? That fool of a bishop mocked your heritage with his stupid, stupid jokes, making a fool of himself (I would have cringed at his sermon even if he were a white-lily reverend from Connecticut).
It has nothing to do with not being familiar with slavery.
Speaking of slavery is certainly not wrong but it can be unsuitable in my opinion in some circumstances. Please, don't be out. Let's have a good conversation about this if you ant. Maybe in PM since I'm afraid the moderators might believe we're getting Ot here.

 

[Lady Reem]

I thought the reaction of the royal relations to the bishop was extremely bad mannered. Surely they’ve had occasion to hear different styles of preaching in their globe trotting existences. He preached in a style that is very typical of a black American church, on love, a topic that was very appropriate for a wedding, and with a view to what it means to the world audience for a biracial woman to marry a popular prince. It’s just too bad they didn’t seem to be listening or understanding the message.

I couldn’t agree more. The bride & groom, Cambridges, Prince Charles behaved ok the rest (IMHO) just came across as aloof, rude and snobbish throughout the whole church ceremony. Not a good look considering it was one of theirs getting married.

 

[Juliette2]

Maybe it’s time for them to update the tradition, hmm? The ceremony was a very nice blend of traditional English and black, contemporary American styles. It was all in good taste, all beautifully done, and the sermon had true meaning. It was very nearly perfectly done.

No, thanks.

Why do we have to Americanize the entire world??

If the sermon had true meaning I'm sorry but it was lost in the idiocy of its delivery.

 

[Gawin]

Or maybe we should respect that this is British traditions and not try to Americanize the entire country including he Royal Family. Incorporating touches os the bride’s heritage is wonderful and expected for the service, although it went too far IMO.

Maybe we should respect the bridal couple's right to plan their wedding as they see fit.

 

[HRHHermione]

This post made me very happy. Watching black women’s joy about this wedding was one of my very favorite things about it.

https://wonkette.com/634140/a-royal-wedding-of-blacktacularness

 

[Juliette2]

They know why. And we know why. But apparently no one is allowed to say why. I refuse to play this game with people.

I find it deeply offensive that if someone criticizes an African-American person (in this case Rev. Curry) he or she is deemed a racist. It's offensive, unfair and despicable, honestly.

 

[Gawin]

I'm sorry, but you're really, really misunderstanding. It has NOTHING to do with race. Where is your heritage being mocked?? That fool of a bishop mocked your heritage with his stupid, stupid jokes, making a fool of himself (I would have cringed at his sermon even if he were a white-lily reverend from Connecticut).
It has nothing to do with not being familiar with slavery.
Speaking of slavery is certainly not wrong but it can be unsuitable in my opinion in some circumstances. Please, don't be out. Let's have a good conversation about this if you ant. Maybe in PM since I'm afraid the moderators might believe we're getting Ot here.

As I pointed out in another post, Rev. Curry did not talk about slavery. He used a hymn the slaves sang as an example of the power of love.

How is that unsuitable?

 

[Mirabel]

Just putting in my two cents worth, I was disappointed. Her wedding dress was meh, the veil was pretty but too long, the flowers were very boring, Harry didn't dazzle me... The only thing that I really liked was the tiara, everything else including the children's clothes was a bore imo. It felt more like a society wedding, it wasn't very royal. Glad others enjoyed it, though.

I have to agree.
I watch a royal wedding for the pomp and the pageantry.
But this one seemed more Hollywood and not enough royal.

Don't get me wrong, it was a nice wedding.
But it didn't really seem very royal.

 

[CyrilVladisla]

Prince Henry was given permission from his grandmother The Queen to keep his beard for his wedding.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6330689/prince-harry-beard-royal-wedding-queen-permission

 

[mgrant]

No, thanks.

Why do we have to Americanize the entire world??

If the sermon had true meaning I'm sorry but it was lost in the idiocy of its delivery.

Well, Juliette, judging from the reactions of some of the royal family members and a few others on the other side of the screen, your fears about Americanization are clearly unfounded. If you can find no meaning in a sermon on love simply because of the way it was delivered, its doubtful you will ever find any meaning in it at all.

 

[Alliec76]

Please read all the posts, not just those by a few posters who didn't like much of anything today and have mocked or criticized more than the sermon.

I did. I still find some of these comments problematic. But since we are not allowed to have that discussion, about why they are problematic, I will just have to leave it at that. I live with this everyday. I know what it looks like. And I'm just not willing to accept it, deny it or bite my tongue.

I will just close by saying, my circle of African American women friends were deeply moved and touched by today. It held great significance for us. And if you look online the feeling seemed to be wide spread. But this does not seem to be the forum to have any of those discussions.

 

[O-H Anglophile]

I have to agree.
I watch a royal wedding for the pomp and the pageantry.
But this one seemed more Hollywood and not enough royal.

Don't get me wrong, it was a nice wedding.
But it didn't really seem very royal.

It wasn't a state or even semi-state wedding though.

There was some pageantry--the carriage ride and their military escort, the church, the beautiful music, the veil.

Serious question-Other than some celebrity guests what was "Hollywood" about it? William had some of the same guests at his wedding.

 

[Juliette2]

As I pointed out in another post, Rev. Curry did not talk about slavery. He used a hymn the slaves sang as an example of the power of love.

How is that unsuitable?

Well, let's add one more thing, even mentioning a Roman Catholic thinker in front of the Head of the Anglican Church was not the best of ideas...!!

 

[Ish]

Time to move on.

 

[Ish]

Wedding of Harry and Meghan: Guest Arrivals & Fashions

Does anyone know what the connection to the Clooneys is? I can’t figure out why they were invited.

What I would like to know if what members of Meghan's family were there.

I don’t believe we saw any members of Meghan’s family other than her mother. It’s hard to say, as the commentary didn’t really point out any less-than-well known guests, which would include anyone from Meghan’s family who might have actually been invited, but it looks like the “family” section of the bride’s side was filled largely with Meghan’s close friends.

 

[Zaira]

ON a positive note:

I just want to give a lot of love to Doria. She was the epitome of grace, dignity and class. Her emotion for her daughter was so beautiful. As hard as this week was for the bride and groom, I imagine it was equally if not more hard for Doria. To see her daughter so dragged through the mud because of her own family? To see her ex-partner so botch the lead up?

Doria is just a class act all around.

I was so pleased to see how loving Charles was with her. I have a feeling Charles truly feels he has found a daughter in Meghan and also really respects Doria. Not shade on Kate, but Kate is extremely close to her family and is so very lucky in that sense. I think with Meghan, we will see Charles really become a big figure in her life with her parents being so far and her dad being...who he is as a person.

Doria reminds me so much of my mama, who is truly a queen among women. I am looking forward to seeing her at other events, as she is able to cross the pond.

 

[JuliannaVictoria]

Does anyone know what the connection to the Clooneys is? I can’t figure out why they were invited.

Meghan. Apparently since moving to London, they have struck up a friendship, and Amal is said to have been helping and giving her pointers. George and Amal also have a home in Windsor.

 

[Juliette2]

Does anyone know what the connection to the Clooneys is? I can’t figure out why they were invited.

No. I have a feeling Meghan might admire their work and might try to involve them in her future projects, but it's only speculation on my part.

 

[Mirabel]

It wasn't a state or even semi-state wedding though.

There was some pageantry--the carriage ride and their military escort, the church, the beautiful music, the veil.

Serious question-Other than some celebrity guests what was "Hollywood" about it? William had some of the same guests at his wedding.

I don't know, I guess watching the celebrities walk in looked rather like they were walking the red carpet, which in turn made me think Hollywood!

 

[JuliannaVictoria]

Meghan's mother was the only 'blood' family there. Her friends from since she was at Northwestern, whom she considers her family were seated close to her mom. Benita Litt whose two daughters were bridesmaids was seated right next to Doria. Lindsay Roth was one row up with her husband.

Sometimes, your friends become your family. As someone who has half siblings and a complicated relationship with them, I would have done the same as Meghan.

No. I have a feeling Meghan might admire their work and might try to involve them in her future projects, but it's only speculation on my part.

I believe you are right about the further project part also. A lot of these people will be helpful to any future project she and Harry takes on that requires huge donations.

 

[Countessmeout]

How was it decided that George and Amal and Serena Williams and her husband sat in the Quire while the Middletons, Elton John, and the Beckhams were relegated to the Nave?

Close friends and family were in the Quire. The Middletons are general friends, not really that close to Harry or Meghan, close enough to get an invite. The Beckhams he knows through the odd charity event.

The only thing that surprises me, would have expected to swap Elton and David with George and Amal. Unless I am missing some connection, Elton seems to have more of a relationship with Harry.

Serena isn't just a 'charity connection'. She is a good friend of Meghan's. As Meghan had no family but her mother on her side, she had more room for personal friends.

 

[Curbside]

Prince Henry was given permission from his grandmother The Queen to keep his beard for his wedding.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6330689/prince-harry-beard-royal-wedding-queen-permission

Of course he did. I bet Meghan loves it!

 

[Ish]

Meghan's mother was the only 'blood' family there. Her friends from since she was at Northwestern, whom she considers her family were seated close to her mom. Benita Litt whose two daughters were bridesmaids was seated right next to Doria. Lindsay Roth was one row up with her husband.

Sometimes, your friends become your family. As someone who has half siblings and a complicated relationship with them, I would have done the same as Meghan.

Plus the Mulroneys, who were sitting in the front row. There was a lot of commentary in Canada about that one - basically “how did Ben Mulroney get better seats than the Queen?”

 

[O-H Anglophile]

The only thing that surprises me, would have expected to swap Elton and David with George and Amal. Unless I am missing some connection, Elton seems to have more of a relationship with Harry.

But George and Amal were seated on the bride's side so not really interchangeable. I thought I read that Meghan and Amal have known each other for some time now.

 

[Juliette2]

ON a positive note:

I just want to give a lot of love to Doria. She was the epitome of grace, dignity and class. Her emotion for her daughter was so beautiful. As hard as this week was for the bride and groom, I imagine it was equally if not more hard for Doria. To see her daughter so dragged through the mud because of her own family? To see her ex-partner so botch the lead up?

Doria is just a class act all around.

I was so pleased to see how loving Charles was with her. I have a feeling Charles truly feels he has found a daughter in Meghan and also really respects Doria. Not shade on Kate, but Kate is extremely close to her family and is so very lucky in that sense. I think with Meghan, we will see Charles really become a big figure in her life with her parents being so far and her dad being...who he is as a person.

Doria reminds me so much of my mama, who is truly a queen among women. I am looking forward to seeing her at other events, as she is able to cross the pond.

I agree. One of the best moments of the ceremony for me was at the very end when before exiting the chapel (I believe to sign the register?) Prince Charles took Doria's arm. She looked very grateful. He is a true gentleman: attentive, corteous, warm.

 

[RoyalHighness 2002]

The baby must have definitely done something to make Zara look this way lol.

https://twitter.com/x/status/997805242921209856