Prince Charles-Philippe d'Orléans, Naomi Kern and Family: 2022 -

[Marengo]

Arms of the Orléanist Monarchy​

Welcome to the thread of Prince Charles-Philippe d'Orléans, Naomi Kern and Family,

Commencing December 7th, 2022 ​

The previous thread for Prince Charles-Philippe and her now ex-wife can be found here

The new thread for Duchess Diana and the House of Cadaval can be found here.
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[Elektra]

The divorce is now effective for Prince Charles-Philippe and the Duchess of Cadaval .

https://histoiresroyales.fr/divorce-prince-charles-philippe-orleans-duchesse-de-cadaval/

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles Philippe d' Orleans is dating Noami Kern, a young rich Widow !

 

[Toledo]

The divorce is now effective for Prince Charles-Philippe and the Duchess of Cadaval .

https://histoiresroyales.fr/divorce-prince-charles-philippe-orleans-duchesse-de-cadaval/

From the article's 4th paragraph

Prince Charles-Philippe, titled Duke of Anjou by the head of the Orleans branch of the House of France, was the cousin of the current Count of Paris, pretender to the throne of France. Diana inherited the title of Duchess of Cadaval from her father, who died in 2001.

I thought the title Duke of Anjou was Luis Phillipe Bourbon, of the Spanish branch and 2nd cousin to King Felipe from his paternal grand uncle's side? I do recall from the old Royal Forums 14 years ago, this Anjou title dispute was even taken to court and Luis/Louis won besides the French court stating they had no jurisdiction (?)

 

[Tatiana Maria]

From the article's 4th paragraph

Prince Charles-Philippe, titled Duke of Anjou by the head of the Orleans branch of the House of France, was the cousin of the current Count of Paris, pretender to the throne of France. Diana inherited the title of Duchess of Cadaval from her father, who died in 2001.

I thought the title Duke of Anjou was Luis Phillipe Bourbon, of the Spanish branch and 2nd cousin to King Felipe from his paternal grand uncle's side? I do recall from the old Royal Forums 14 years ago, this Anjou title dispute was even taken to court and Luis/Louis won besides the French court stating they had no jurisdiction (?)

The French state impartially recognizes the royal/imperial titles of all three families who lay claims to the nonexistent French throne. Even though the King of Spain's cousin Luis Alfonso de Borbón is not an HRH or a Prince in Spain (as his grandfather contracted an unequal and morganatic marriage), he is designated as one on his French passport, as he has confirmed in interviews.

Duc_et_Pair posted an interesting article on the subject here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...d-family-feb-2019-a-46101-14.html#post2448925

Yes, Henri d'Orléans senior petitioned a French court to block Alfonso de Borbón from using the title Duke of Anjou and the plain arms of France and was rejected.

https://www.heraldica.org/topics/france/proces2.htm

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The divorce is now effective for Prince Charles-Philippe and the Duchess of Cadaval .

https://histoiresroyales.fr/divorce-prince-charles-philippe-orleans-duchesse-de-cadaval/

How very sad. They had a lovely little family.

 

[maria-olivia]

Dating a heiress and kissing her publicly at a Tennis Cup is not that clever. Now his relationship with the royal Houses of Portugal and Spain ( The King is godfather of his daughter isabelle) will be more difficult.

 

[Marengo]

The prince will apparently marry Naomi Valeska-Kern (42), widow of German fashion entrepeneur Otto Kern. In 2017 Mr. Kern fell from the balcony of his apartment in Monaco when he tried to adjust the satellite dish for the television during a storm.

https://www.gala.de/stars/news/naomi-valeska-kern--sie-heiratet-einen-prinzen-23038278.html

Mrs. Kern says that they would certainly look forward to any children.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

It goes without saying that the Prince's personal life is not my business, but this news saddens me.

Charles Philippe and Diana were one of my favorite Royal couples. I loved their little family.

 

[rominet09]

Children ? If she is 42 it will be difficult but not impossible.

 

[Blog Real]

Prince François d'Orléans invested Knight Grand Cross of the Order of Saint Lazare.
The Duke of Anjou invests the Count of Dreux in the Order of Saint Lazare.

https://histoiresroyales.fr/prince-...ckANyQeorK42Glv8NVyLYAnSJB6ln2GPldnJWa8Zv5HNw

 

[maria-olivia]

I don't trust histoires Royales.
The Duke d' Anjou had to resign being the Grand Master because of Justice Problems. The Grand Master of the order is actually his uncle .

 

[principessa]

The Count of Paris announced some news about the remarriage of Prince Charles-Philippe:

https://comtedeparis.com/communique...fyhWBnfAUC-U7jmhKhJ0img-7GGd4YnfQoQUPuHcYQQw4

Translation: https://comtedeparis-com.translate....l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

 

[Somebody]

That's pretty clear language. Charles-Philippe may decide to get a civil divorce and remarry but if he does remarry he will loose his predicate of royal highness while his (former) wife and daughter will retain their French titles and predicates - as according to the Roman Catholic church they are still married. His new wife will only be 'madam Charles-Philippe d'Orleans' and any children they may have will not be dynasts.

 

[maria-olivia]

I wonder if Prince Charles Philippe and ther Heiress Kern expected this?

 

[Stefan]

Seems there are different standards as Prince Charles-Philippe's father Michel also made a second civil marriage a few years ago and there was no such statement and his second wife is referred to as Countess of Evreux.

 

[Somebody]

Seems there are different standards as Prince Charles-Philippe's father Michel also made a second civil marriage a few years ago and there was no such statement and his second wife is referred to as Countess of Evreux.

That marriage happened in 2017 when Jean's father (who himself was divorced and remarried! (in 1984) - long before he got an annulment, he only married his second wife religiously in 2009) was still the Count of Paris, so, it is no surprise that Henri's son sees things differently than his father and acts differently, for example, by putting out this statement in advance.

Henri himself also did things differently than his father, for example, he annulled his father's decision to deprive his brothers Michel (Count of Évreux) and Thibaut (the late Count of La Marche) of their succession rights. So, each count should be evaluated against the standards they set themselves - not by their predecessor's standards or decisions.

 

[Moonmaiden23]

The Count of Paris announced some news about the remarriage of Prince Charles-Philippe:

https://comtedeparis.com/communique...fyhWBnfAUC-U7jmhKhJ0img-7GGd4YnfQoQUPuHcYQQw4

Translation: https://comtedeparis-com.translate....l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

I wasn't expecting this...at ALL. If the fiancee had visions of being a princess dancing around in her head, she must be very disappointed right now.

But I would be dishonest if I said I wasn't thrilled to hear that Diana and little Isabelle will retain HRH.

 

[maria-olivia]

The Duke of Vendome , now Comte de Paris, asked the family not to attend his father's religiouis wedding. Whow was there Prince Charles Philippe in his uniform of St Lazare!

 

[rominet09]

Is it important to be a HRH in nowadays France ?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

In Royalist circles I would imagine yes.

It's seriously important.

 

[Prinsara]

Wouldn't it be unusual to take HRH from a child? That didn't happen in Denmark or Britain.

I'm not sure I even understand why this proactive announcement is being made with no announcement of a wedding date. Did I miss something?

 

[Moonmaiden23]

But it did indeed happen in Denmark with Joachim's children, right? And perhaps it is known within the family that the wedding is imminent.

There was never any chance of Princess Isabelle losing HRH. What surprises me is the Count of Paris's attitude toward C-P's fiancee.

She will basically be "Mrs. Orleans" and if I read correctly may not even adopt the Arms of the French Royal House.

Diana de Cadaval will retain HRH and will, if she chooses to do so, continue to link the French Royal arms with those of the Dukes de Cadaval. Ouch.

What happens if C-P seeks an annulment? I can't see any grounds for it but stranger things have happened.

Will CP, having lost HRH upon his remarriage, at least continue be HH...or is that gone as well?

ETA: I just went online and Google'd CP's fiancee Naomi Valeska Kern. She was quoted in Gala magazine gleefully exclaiming "I'm going to be a princess!" at the time the engagement was announced last year.

So the communique from the Head of the Royal House must be disappointing to her.

 

[maria-olivia]

Prince Charles Philippe is strange , he never suceeded any business, the failed in his candidacy to the french Assemblée, he had even Justice Problems and had to resign to his tittle of Grand Master of the Order of St Lazare.
He will do now a second wedding with a young widow heiress : money for the groom and SAR for the future bride.
The Count of Paris as head of his house is doing what his grand faher did and his father could not.
I think the date of the wedding was imminent ! They gave an interview to Point de Vue they said they wanted children to come.

 

[Prinsara]

But it did indeed happen in Denmark with Joachim's children, right? And perhaps it is known within the family that the wedding is imminent.

There was never any chance of Princess Isabelle losing HRH.

Then I'm not sure I understand why you are "thrilled she will retain it".

The title changes in Denmark were not linked to Joachim's divorce; his long-unaffected children of past and current marriage and a church that recognizes divorce aside, Alexandra remained a princess until remarrying.

It would seem to be classier to issue this as part of the wedding announcement, but perhaps C-P and the Comte are not in harmonious communication right now.

He will do now a second wedding with a young widow heiress : money for the groom and SAR for the future bride.

She won't get SAR, except "Duchess of Windsor" style. That was the point of the communique.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

ETA: I just went online and Google'd CP's fiancee Naomi Valeska Kern. She was quoted in Gala magazine gleefully exclaiming "I'm going to be a princess!" at the time the engagement was announced last year.

So the communique from the Head of the Royal House must be disappointing to her.

Perhaps she is disappointed, but if she went ahead and announced that she would be a princess without asking/receiving consent from the head of her future husband's house, then I imagine she will accordingly call herself a princess even without his consent. Is the Gala interview online?

What I wonder about are the legal effects, if any, of the Count of Paris's decision. Though France is a republic, royal and noble titles continue to enjoy legal recognition, including in official identity documents. (Read more here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...feb-2019-a-46101-post2448925.html#post2448925) If Charles-Philippe and Naomi apply to have their children named as HRH Princess/Prince on their French passports, will the authorities approve their application?

It would seem to be classier to issue this as part of the wedding announcement, but perhaps C-P and the Comte are not in harmonious communication right now.

I'm not sure I even understand why this proactive announcement is being made with no announcement of a wedding date. Did I miss something?

The Count of Paris's communiqué states that he is responding to reports in the press, though I wonder if the fiancée's post-engagement interview had something to do with it.

Prince Charles Philippe is strange , he never suceeded any business, the failed in his candidacy to the french Assemblée, he had even Justice Problems and had to resign to his tittle of Grand Master of the Order of St Lazare.

What legal problems did he have?

 

[maria-olivia]

Please see thread 30 at the beginning of this thread.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Thank you. Here is post #30 in case anyone else was wondering.

The public prosecutor of Clermont-Ferrand (France) has required, on april the 14 2008,the referring to the "tribunal correctionnel" of Charles Philippe d'Orléans with these charges against him:calumnious denunciation, forgery and making use of forgery; usurpation of identity.Mister d'Orléans have to answer a summons soon.

REMI

 

[Marengo]

The Count of Paris announced some news about the remarriage of Prince Charles-Philippe:

https://comtedeparis.com/communique...fyhWBnfAUC-U7jmhKhJ0img-7GGd4YnfQoQUPuHcYQQw4

Translation: https://comtedeparis-com.translate....l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Petty, very petty. The count of Paris seems to be an absolutely absurd person. A statement like this and a decision like this in 2023. We can only be thankful that France has abolished the monarchy. What a family.

 

[Somebody]

But it did indeed happen in Denmark with Joachim's children, right? And perhaps it is known within the family that the wedding is imminent.

There was never any chance of Princess Isabelle losing HRH. What surprises me is the Count of Paris's attitude toward C-P's fiancee.

She will basically be "Mrs. Orleans" and if I read correctly may not even adopt the Arms of the French Royal House.

Diana de Cadaval will retain HRH and will, if she chooses to do so, continue to link the French Royal arms with those of the Dukes de Cadaval. Ouch.

What happens if C-P seeks an annulment? I can't see any grounds for it but stranger things have happened.

Will CP, having lost HRH upon his remarriage, at least continue be HH...or is that gone as well?

ETA: I just went online and Google'd CP's fiancee Naomi Valeska Kern. She was quoted in Gala magazine gleefully exclaiming "I'm going to be a princess!" at the time the engagement was announced last year.

So the communique from the Head of the Royal House must be disappointing to her.

No, according to the announcement he will 'just' be prince CP of Orleans and he retains the style of Duke of Anjou (but apparently cannot transfer that either to his new wife as she is not recognized as his wife by the church nor by the head of the house; his first wife retains that title as well).

If CP and Diane would be granted an annulment (he can seek one but that doesn't mean he will get one), Diane would of course loose her French predicate and titles as according to the church they were never lawfully married (but still got a lawful child). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Jean would give her a different French title, just like his grandfather did to his mother (although as Duchess of Cadaval in her own right, she has no direct use for it).

If Diane herself would decide to remarry, I would expect Jean to also take action - because while he would still consider her a member of the family (as according to the church she is married to CP) - he might not want her to continue using the style related to the house; just like he threatens to take it away from CP.