Prince Alexander and the Princely House of Schaumburg-Lippe 2: 2022 -

[iceflower]

Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the charity gala and auction of the Friends of the House of Arts in Munich yesterday, July 28:


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[Tatiana Maria]

Mario-Max didn’t pay to be adopted like Robert Litchenberg, but he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name, but whatever. People do strange things for all types of reasons.

I am not sure what paying to be adopted, which under German law would render the adoption fraudulent, has to do with taking the surname of one's adoptive father, which is in perfect accordance with both laws and traditions, but as for it being strange to change names as an adult: Experiences will vary, but the wives who marry into German noble families are also generally adults who have their own last names, and most or all choose to change to the names of their husbands.

Is it an option under current law to be adopted but maintain one's birth name?

Onto to the “tacky celebrity” part, it is even tackier to do it as a “non-member” especially with how far Mario-Max has gone with it. I am aware that there are others who maybe legitimate members of these families or those who married in, but Mario-Max wasn’t even adopted by the head of the family but an embarrassing uncle [...]. He’s not even an illegitimate or female line descendant. [...] Those others who are legitimate descendants of aristocratic or royal families some might be on the “tacky train”, but they are actually members of the families. Mario-Max, with all due respect is not a member.

It seems that by "non-[family] member" you mean an adoptive descendant (although adoptive descendants are, under any standard other than the biological one, a family member of their adoptive parent at minimum) and are advocating the popular view that "tacky celebrity" behavior should be considered tackier in an adoptive descendant than in a biological descendant. (And it appears that you rank illegitimate and female-line biological descendants in between adoptive descendants and biological legitimate male-line descendants.) But that view imposes a discriminatory standard against adoptive descendants, because then they are treated more harshly than biological descendants for the same behavior.

I get that the court has its own ideas, but since we are talking about “royals and nobles” and blood kinship is key here, I don’t get why this is a topic of discussion.

Not certain what you are alluding to.

And before someone starts a snarky comment about the titles being last names which we all know is true, then the threads about “non-reigning royals” should be closed.

Marnoe was not being snarky, simply stating a factual matter. It is not the case that "we all know it is true". (Note that as this is a forum, comments are often written for others who may be reading as well.)

In any case, Mario-Max is no blood member of the family. He can change his name to whatever he likes, but at the end of the day, he is not a descendant of the family in anyway, illegitimate, female-line or otherwise.

By definition, adoption establishes the descent of the adoptive child from the adoptive parent, even if there is no blood link.

 

[Kataryn]

am not sure what paying to be adopted, which under German law would render the adoption fraudulent, has to do with taking =Tatiana Maria;2482318]I the surname of one's adoptive father, which is in perfect accordance with both laws and traditions, but as for it being strange to change names as an adult: Experiences will vary, but the wives who marry into German noble families are also generally adults who have their own last names, and most or all choose to change to the names of their husbands.

Is it an option under current law to be adopted but maintain one's birth name?

No. You have to take on the new family name. That's the German situation, though, I don't know about Austria.

What does Alexander not being family oriented have to do with any of this? In any case, Mario-Max is no blood member of the family. He can change his name to whatever he likes, but at the end of the day, he is not a descendant of the family in anyway, illegitimate, female-line or otherwise.

It is the Royal forums, so you are right when you post your opinion here but when it comes to the former reigning Houses of Germany, we shouln't forget that they all lost their social standing as members of a different "class" with the end of WW! and that was over 100 years ago. I personally prefer the Austrian system which got rid of the prefixes and titles of nobility (and I'm from a noble French/Austrian family via my father/grandmother). It was after all the unknown people who earned the money these families still have and why should the descendants of former nobles be any better than the "nouveau riches" of Germany? Or other Germans?

 

[SirGyamfi1]

It is the Royal forums, so you are right when you post your opinion here but when it comes to the former reigning Houses of Germany, we shouln't forget that they all lost their social standing as members of a different "class" with the end of WW! and that was over 100 years ago. I personally prefer the Austrian system which got rid of the prefixes and titles of nobility (and I'm from a noble French/Austrian family via my father/grandmother). It was after all the unknown people who earned the money these families still have and why should the descendants of former nobles be any better than the "nouveau riches" of Germany? Or other Germans?

I’m not saying that they have any official status or anything. But if we are just going to reduce them to citizens, then why are we discussing the lives of people who no longer have legal status then? Which unknown people are you talking about? Where did I say that the “former nobles” were better than anyone? I understand your feelings because you have discussed your story about your origins on this forum in Gustav and Karina thread and you are perfectly entitled to them.

I am not sure what paying to be adopted, which under German law would render the adoption fraudulent, has to do with taking the surname of one's adoptive father, which is in perfect accordance with both laws and traditions, but as for it being strange to change names as an adult: Experiences will vary, but the wives who marry into German noble families are also generally adults who have their own last names, and most or all choose to change to the names of their husbands.

Is it an option under current law to be adopted but maintain one's birth name?




It seems that by "non-[family] member" you mean an adoptive descendant (although adoptive descendants are, under any standard other than the biological one, a family member of their adoptive parent at minimum) and are advocating the popular view that "tacky celebrity" behavior should be considered tackier in an adoptive descendant than in a biological descendant. (And it appears that you rank illegitimate and female-line biological descendants in between adoptive descendants and biological legitimate male-line descendants.) But that view imposes a discriminatory standard against adoptive descendants, because then they are treated more harshly than biological descendants for the same behavior.




Not certain what you are alluding to.




Marnoe was not being snarky, simply stating a factual matter. It is not the case that "we all know it is true". (Note that as this is a forum, comments are often written for others who may be reading as well.)




By definition, adoption establishes the descent of the adoptive child from the adoptive parent, even if there is no blood link.

When a woman marries her husband, he’s not adopting her so the comparison to Mario-Max is not accurate at all.

My comment wasn’t about Marnoe’s comment, but the deliberate selective bias of some people on this forum and I have been aware that there no officially recognized nobility.

About the adoption issue, please kindly check the latest post from Stefan on this thread about Mario-Max.

It is the Royal forums, so you are right when you post your opinion here but when it comes to the former reigning Houses of Germany, we shouln't forget that they all lost their social standing as members of a different "class" with the end of WW! and that was over 100 years ago. I personally prefer the Austrian system which got rid of the prefixes and titles of nobility (and I'm from a noble French/Austrian family via my father/grandmother). It was after all the unknown people who earned the money these families still have and why should the descendants of former nobles be any better than the "nouveau riches" of Germany? Or other Germans?

i don’t understand your post. If they have no social standing. or particular importance, then why are they are being discussed? Obviously noble status in Austria and Germany was gone over a 100 years ago. Since Austria and Germany abolished them, they must be paragons of equality and liberty.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Is it an option under current law to be adopted but maintain one's birth name?

No. You have to take on the new family name. That's the German situation, though, I don't know about Austria.

Thanks. In that case, it is even more prejudicial how adopted children of German nobles are frequently attacked for bearing the "titles" of their adoptive families, if they literally have no choice in the matter.

When a woman marries her husband, he’s not adopting her so the comparison to Mario-Max is not accurate at all.

I think we were discussing your comment that "he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name". The qualifier "already an adult ... and had [their] own last name" is accurate for both adopted adults and married women.

And before someone starts a snarky comment about the titles being last names which we all know is true, then the threads about “non-reigning royals” should be closed.

My comment wasn’t about Marnoe’s comment, but the deliberate selective bias of some people on this forum

Interesting how our experiences differ. In my own experience, the "snarky comments" and "deliberate selective bias" have been generally aimed in the other direction in forum and social media discussions of German (former) royalty and nobility.

About the adoption issue, please kindly check the latest post from Stefan on this thread about Mario-Max.

Thank you, I was aware that Prince Mario-Max was previously adopted, but as that was likewise an adult adoption I did not think it detracted from your arguments.

I’m not saying that they have any official status or anything. But if we are just going to reduce them to citizens, then why are we discussing the lives of people who no longer have legal status then? Which unknown people are you talking about? Where did I say that the “former nobles” were better than anyone? I understand your feelings because you have discussed your story about your origins on this forum in Gustav and Karina thread and you are perfectly entitled to them.

I'm sure no one is suggesting that discussion of legal private citizens should be removed from the forum.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Thanks. In that case, it is even more prejudicial how adopted children of German nobles are frequently attacked for bearing the "titles" of their adoptive families, if they literally have no choice in the matter.




I think we were discussing your comment that "he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name". The qualifier "already an adult ... and had [their] own last name" is accurate for both adopted adults and married women.






Interesting how our experiences differ. In my own experience, the "snarky comments" and "deliberate selective bias" have been generally aimed in the other direction in forum and social media discussions of German (former) royalty and nobility.




Thank you, I was aware that Prince Mario-Max was previously adopted, but as that was likewise an adult adoption I did not think it detracted from your arguments.




I'm sure no one is suggesting that discussion of legal private citizens should be removed from the forum.

My response to the first comment is that Mario-Max knows what he’s doing and I am not questioning adopted “members” in general, but specifically him.

Married women don’t compare to “adopted” grown adults as women can can choose to keep their married names.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

My response to the first comment is that Mario-Max knows what he’s doing and I am not questioning adopted “members” in general, but specifically him.

Thank you for clarifying. All of my comments were meant to discuss attitudes towards adopted descendants in general, rather than the personal history and motives of Mario-Max (whom I only cited as one example) specifically.

Married women don’t compare to “adopted” grown adults as women can can choose to keep their married names.

Indeed, so if it is not questionable and strange when grown married women take on the name of the family which they have joined despite having a legal choice, it is even less strange when adopted (not "adopted") grown adults take on the name of their new family, if it is a legal requirement.

 

[SirGyamfi1]

Thank you for clarifying. All of my comments were meant to discuss attitudes towards adopted descendants in general, rather than the personal history and motives of Mario-Max (whom I only cited as one example) specifically.




Indeed, so if it is not questionable and strange when grown married women take on the name of the family which they have joined despite having a legal choice, it is even less strange when adopted (not "adopted") grown adults take on the name of their new family, if it is a legal requirement.

In the previous thread, I made it clear that I had nothing against adopted children.

You are comparing apples to oranges with Mario-Max, he already had his own last name from his biological father before his stepfather married his mother. How can it be a legal requirement when the person in question already had a last name of his own nor was he an orphan?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

Is it an option under current law to be adopted but maintain one's birth name?

No. You have to take on the new family name. That's the German situation, though, I don't know about Austria.

How can it be a legal requirement when the person in question already had a last name of his own nor was he an orphan?

Kataryn's comment stating that it is a legal requirement was accurate. Those who wish to confirm the information may access an English translation of the German Civil Code at this link.

You are comparing apples to oranges with Mario-Max, he already had his own last name from his biological father before his stepfather married his mother.

Please note that I addressed this point when you raised it abovethread, and you responded to my replies. In an attempt to avoid repetition, I will repost our discussion on this subject, up to the post to which you are replying.

Mario-Max didn’t pay to be adopted like Robert Litchenberg, but he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name, but whatever. People do strange things for all types of reasons.

[...] but as for it being strange to change names as an adult: Experiences will vary, but the wives who marry into German noble families are also generally adults who have their own last names, and most or all choose to change to the names of their husbands.

When a woman marries her husband, he’s not adopting her so the comparison to Mario-Max is not accurate at all.

I think we were discussing your comment that "he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name". The qualifier "already an adult ... and had [their] own last name" is accurate for both adopted adults and married women.

Married women don’t compare to “adopted” grown adults as women can can choose to keep their married names.

Indeed, so if it is not questionable and strange when grown married women take on the name of the family which they have joined despite having a legal choice, it is even less strange when adopted (not "adopted") grown adults take on the name of their new family, if it is a legal requirement.

 

[maria-olivia]

Kataryn's comment stating that it is a legal requirement was accurate. Those who wish to confirm the information may access an English translation of the German Civil Code at this link.




Please note that I addressed this point when you raised it abovethread, and you responded to my replies. In an attempt to avoid repetition, I will repost our discussion on this subject, up to the post to which you are replying.

How a lot of Posts to say nothing new , repetitions and repetitions..
The great time of the Royal Forums is over !

 

[Kataryn]

i don’t understand your post. If they have no social standing. or particular importance, then why are they are being discussed? Obviously noble status in Austria and Germany was gone over a 100 years ago. Since Austria and Germany abolished them, they must be paragons of equality and liberty.

It's a difference in both countries what the politicians decreed and what the people think about the higher ups in their society. I guess there is always a need to have higher ups in each society and to have them as easily recognizible as possible. "Nobility" and titles help here! Though apart from ultra right politician Beatix von Storch (née Duchess of Oldenburg) I am not aware that Germany has any politicians of the (former rank and now) name of Fuerst (or Prince for the younger members) or higher up in our parliaments. Maybe there are some on local levels, but surely not in the Bundestag.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

It's a difference in both countries what the politicians decreed and what the people think about the higher ups in their society. I guess there is always a need to have higher ups in each society and to have them as easily recognizible as possible. "Nobility" and titles help here! Though apart from ultra right politician Beatix von Storch (née Duchess of Oldenburg) I am not aware that Germany has any politicians of the (former rank and now) name of Fuerst (or Prince for the younger members) or higher up in our parliaments. Maybe there are some on local levels, but surely not in the Bundestag.

Michael von Abercron, Matern von Marschall, Hans-Georg von der Marwitz, Christian Freiherr von Stetten, Beatrix von Storch geborene Herzogin von Oldenburg, Aexander Graf Lambsdorff, Hermann-Otto Prinz zu Solms-Hohensolms-Lich, Wilhelm von Gottberg, Berengar Elsner von Gronow, Konstantin von Notz, Petra von Abercron and more in the Bundestag.

 

[Kataryn]

Michael von Abercron, Matern von Marschall, Hans-Georg von der Marwitz, Christian Freiherr von Stetten, Beatrix von Storch geborene Herzogin von Oldenburg, Aexander Graf Lambsdorff, Hermann-Otto Prinz zu Solms-Hohensolms-Lich, Wilhelm von Gottberg, Berengar Elsner von Gronow, Konstantin von Notz, Petra von Abercron and more in the Bundestag.

I know of some of them but apart from Prince Solms (who I wasn't aware of) and the afore-mentioned Beatrix von Storch they are low or medium high former nobles and even the Lambsdorffs are only Counts and not one of the mediatised families.



I didn't even find infos of Petra von Abercron and I searched! Which is astonishing as she is said to be a member of German parliament. Some men mentioned are even former members, like Matern Freiherr Marschall of Bieberstein and Dr. Michael von Abercron, who lost their place to others on the last election and Prince Solms, who did not become a candidate this last time. I knew him by the name he used in politics, Mr. Hermann-Otto Solms. Sorry I didn't relise he has a noble name as well.



So I feel that I'm right to say that the German nobility is no very used to become a democratic candidate for parliament, doesn't want to or simply doesn't make it in the previous rounds when the members of a party vote for their representatives to become candidate. I have no idea why that is but I see it as a fact.

 

[iceflower]

Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the Burda Summer Party in Berlin yesterday, September 7:


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[noc]

I know of some of them but apart from Prince Solms (who I wasn't aware of) and the afore-mentioned Beatrix von Storch they are low or medium high former nobles and even the Lambsdorffs are only Counts and not one of the mediatised families.



I didn't even find infos of Petra von Abercron and I searched! Which is astonishing as she is said to be a member of German parliament. Some men mentioned are even former members, like Matern Freiherr Marschall of Bieberstein and Dr. Michael von Abercron, who lost their place to others on the last election and Prince Solms, who did not become a candidate this last time. I knew him by the name he used in politics, Mr. Hermann-Otto Solms. Sorry I didn't relise he has a noble name as well.



So I feel that I'm right to say that the German nobility is no very used to become a democratic candidate for parliament, doesn't want to or simply doesn't make it in the previous rounds when the members of a party vote for their representatives to become candidate. I have no idea why that is but I see it as a fact.

Do the Houses not have closely linked business they tend to? Perhaps, their commitments make it difficult to hold office?

 

[iceflower]

Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the Oktoberfest in Munich on September 19:


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[SirGyamfi1]

Do the Houses not have closely linked business they tend to? Perhaps, their commitments make it difficult to hold office?

Some are business owners, some are both landowners and business owners, others have normal jobs, I dare say most of the high nobility aren’t really interested in going mainstream politics probably because some are more interested in running their estates (for those that have estates), or can’t be bothered with politics, or simply don’t care for politics. I would also say that as a social group, most prefer discretion so wouldn’t want to be involved in politics. Most of them would probably prefer politics at the the local level possibly in municipalities.

 

[iceflower]

On October 6 Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the "After Work Pink Cocktail" in Munich organized by the Estée Lauder Company to celebrate the 30th anniversary of its breast cancer campaign:


** Pic ** bunte.de article **

 

[iceflower]

Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the VIP preview event of HIGHLIGHTS LAB X Wunderkunst at Residenz in Munich yesterday, October 18:


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[iceflower]

Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the Curtis & Curtis exclusive dinner in Munich on November 7:


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[eya]

Princess Mahkameh's mother Shahrzad Akhavan died in Vancouver, Canada. She was 71 years old.

https://www.bild.de/regional/hannov...trauert-um-schwiegermutter-81938800.bild.html

 

[iceflower]

The Christmas Market at Bückeburg Castle was opened yesterday, November 24 (the gallery below is a bit confusing, photos of Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe at the opening are mixed with photos of his civil wedding in 2020):


** brauerphotos gallery **

 

[iceflower]

Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe celebrated Christmas with his family including wife Mahkameh and ex-wife Lilly, who shared some photos:


** instagram gallery **

 

[iceflower]

Antonia of Schaumburg-Lippe and Mario-Max of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the Aspen Snow Ball Welcome Party Hosted By Chopard at AspenX Mountain Club in Aspen, Colorado on January 26:


** Pic **

 

[eya]

Alexander zu Schaumburg-Lippe's restaurant "Lilly's" in the Bückeburger Schlosspark went up in flames on Saturday night.

https://www.brauerphotos.de/offer/00061200

https://www.rtl.de/cms/restaurant-von-alexander-zu-schaumburg-lippe-geht-in-flammen-auf-5027641.html

 

[eya]

Alexander zu Schaumburg-Lippe: "The German nobility has nothing in common with right-wing extremists"

"Alexander Fürst zu Schaumburg-Lippe from Bückeburg noticed increasing irritation and growing hostility - also directed against the nobility in Germany. This happens without any factual justification, and that annoys him, he explained when visiting the editors of the political journal Rundblick."


https://www.rundblick-niedersachsen...adel-hat-mit-rechtsextremisten-nichts-gemein/

 

[iceflower]

Antonia of Schaumburg-Lippe and Mario-Max of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the NYFW hiTechMODA Season 9 at Gotham Hall in New York City on February 11:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **

 

[iceflower]

On May 25 Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe and wife Mahkameh invited the press to present this year’s castle fair „Landpartie“:


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[iceflower]

Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe and wife Mahkameh attended the charity event "HENRIKE tanzt – das Charity Open Air" in support of a new mother-child clinic in Hannover yesterday, June 1:


** gallery ** ppe gallery **

 

[iceflower]

Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the evening event of the 66th KATAG Executive Conference in Bielefeld yesterday, June 5:


** Pic ** gallery **