Prince Alexander and the Princely House of Schaumburg-Lippe 2: 2022 -


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Arms of the Principality of Schaumburg-Lippe​

Welcome to the thread Prince Alexander and the Princely House of Schaumburg-Lippe, Part 2
Commencing Jan 1st, 2022 ​

The previous thread can be found here

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Stephanus said:
I am quite surprised to have him mentioned here together with the rest of the princely family.
Click to expand...

Even if Mario-Max had never been adopted by his stepfather, he would as a stepchild have been in the same position as Marius Borg Høiby or Wolfie Mapelli Mozzi, who are mentioned in their respective royal families' subforums.


Stephanus said:
Was the dubious path of adopted Mario-Helmut Wagner to the Name of "Prince Mario Max of Schaumburg" ever discussed in this forum? Or the legal fight of the family against him using the name and titles?
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I would say your stance is shared by the overwhelming majority in royalty discussions not only in this forum but in other fora also.

The fact that most people are supportive of the Belgian judiciary awarding royal titles to Delphine as a special favor restricted to her and her children without altering the unequal situation of other out of wedlock descendants of nobility, but - at the same time - adamantly criticize the laws of the republic of Germany which allow all children of titled families to receive the same titles in their names without discrimination on the basis of legitimacy - confounds me, to be honest. From my perspective the latter approach is more equitable than the former. Would anyone explain why most people have the opposing stance?
 
Mario-Max of Schaumburg-Lippe attended Debbie Durkin's ECOLUXE Oscars Luxury Lounge at The Beverly Hilton in Beverly Hills, California on March 25:


** Pic **
 
Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe has sued Facebook at the Higher Regional Court in Celle, Germany, yesterday, May 11. Facebook had blocked his account in 2021 after he had posted a photo of actor Bruce Willis, aiming a pistol, in response to another member's post. Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe had already won the case at the Bückeburg Regional Court, but Facebook had appealed. The decision in Celle is expected for May 19:


** gallery ** bild.de article **


And Heinrich Donatus of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the DKMS London Gala 2022 at The Roundhouse in London on May 12:


** Pic **
 
Mario-Max of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the "Jerry And Tracy Turco Host Charity Event To Support The Palm Springs Police Association" at Palm Springs Modernism Museum in Palm Springs, California on May 25:


** Pic **
 
Alexander of Schaumburg-Lippe attended 'The Alchemist's Feast', the inaugural summer party & fundraiser for the National Gallery's Bicentenary campaign, NG200, in London yesterday, June 23:


** Pic **
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Even if Mario-Max had never been adopted by his stepfather, he would as a stepchild have been in the same position as Marius Borg Høiby or Wolfie Mapelli Mozzi, who are mentioned in their respective royal families' subforums.




I would say your stance is shared by the overwhelming majority in royalty discussions not only in this forum but in other fora also.

The fact that most people are supportive of the Belgian judiciary awarding royal titles to Delphine as a special favor restricted to her and her children without altering the unequal situation of other out of wedlock descendants of nobility, but - at the same time - adamantly criticize the laws of the republic of Germany which allow all children of titled families to receive the same titles in their names without discrimination on the basis of legitimacy - confounds me, to be honest. From my perspective the latter approach is more equitable than the former. Would anyone explain why most people have the opposing stance?
Click to expand...
I think the point is that Mario-Max is no blood member of the family and regardless about how the Federal German Republic treats the titles of nobility as surnames, at the end of the day, nobility is based on blood not adoptions. The difference with Mario Max and Delphine is that even though Delphine was borne out wedlock, she is still the biological daughter of the former King Albert II of Belgium, however I’m not sure I necessarily agree with her having the titles and her demand for them were childish and probably spiteful.
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
I think the point is that Mario-Max is no blood member of the family and regardless about how the Federal German Republic treats the titles of nobility as surnames, at the end of the day, nobility is based on blood not adoptions. The difference with Mario Max and Delphine is that even though Delphine was borne out wedlock, she is still the biological daughter of the former King Albert II of Belgium, however I’m not sure I necessarily agree with her having the titles and her demand for them were childish and probably spiteful.
Click to expand...

Thank you for answering my question! :flowers: Welcome to the forum.

While it is not universal that nobility is only based on (the presumption of) blood relationships (nobility based on adoption is allowed for in the Netherlands), and there is no official nobility in the Federal Republic, the perception that biological children are more deserving of family privileges than adopted children or stepchildren could indeed explain the differences in opinion regarding Mario-Max and Delphine.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Thank you for answering my question! :flowers: Welcome to the forum.

While it is not universal that nobility is only based on (the presumption of) blood relationships (nobility based on adoption is allowed for in the Netherlands), and there is no official nobility in the Federal Republic, the perception that biological children are more deserving of family privileges than adopted children or stepchildren could indeed explain the differences in opinion regarding Mario-Max and Delphine.
Click to expand...
Thank you for welcoming me, were you referring to adopted in the sense of adopting female line heirs when a family has no sons or adoption with a biological but out of wedlock children or adopting a person completely unrelated to you? Because I do not see the need for Mario-Max to have it either way.
 
Nadja Anna of Schaumburg-Lippe attended the Giulia & Romeo vegan fashion show "Love is our Style" by Daniela Brunner in Munich yesterday, July 13:


** Pic 1 ** Pic 2 **
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
Thank you for welcoming me, were you referring to adopted in the sense of adopting female line heirs when a family has no sons or adoption with a biological but out of wedlock children or adopting a person completely unrelated to you? Because I do not see the need for Mario-Max to have it either way.
Click to expand...

I thought you meant adoption in general and replied accordingly. Mario-Max's adoption by his stepfather would not fall under either of the criteria you mention.

As this discussion began with my question about the comments on Mario-Max versus Delphine: Would you say you see the need for Delphine to have a title?
 
Tatiana Maria said:
I thought you meant adoption in general and replied accordingly. Mario-Max's adoption by his stepfather would not fall under either of the criteria you mention.

As this discussion began with my question about the comments on Mario-Max versus Delphine: Would you say you see the need for Delphine to have a title?
Click to expand...
I certainly don’t agree with Mario-Max’s adoption, but that issue has been sorted out by the family’s head, that stated that Mario is no member. Adoption in general is the correct situation as you have stated, I just wanted verification from you. I don’t agree with Delphine’s either because she did it out of spite and because of the loophole in the house law plus the court case was not about titles so I don’t get why she argued for it.
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
I certainly don’t agree with Mario-Max’s adoption, but that issue has been sorted out by the family’s head, that stated that Mario is no member. Adoption in general is the correct situation as you have stated, I just wanted verification from you. I don’t agree with Delphine’s either because she did it out of spite and because of the loophole in the house law plus the court case was not about titles so I don’t get why she argued for it.
Click to expand...

Thank you for clarifying.

I personally see no issue with a stepparent adopting a stepchild, but like any other individual, the family head is at liberty not to regard Mario-Max as a member of his own family, and vice versa.

Just as a clarification, Delphine's request for titles was granted by the judiciary not due to house rules but due to the Belgian Constitution, although as mentioned above, the judges strangely elected to apply their constitutional ruling to Delphine only and not to all of the other children of nobles in Belgium. See here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...vents-thread-2020-a-47954-44.html#post2470196
 
Tatiana Maria said:
Thank you for clarifying.

I personally see no issue with a stepparent adopting a stepchild, but like any other individual, the family head is at liberty not to regard Mario-Max as a member of his own family, and vice versa.

Just as a clarification, Delphine's request for titles was granted by the judiciary not due to house rules but due to the Belgian Constitution, although as mentioned above, the judges strangely elected to apply their constitutional ruling to Delphine only and not to all of the other children of nobles in Belgium. See here: https://www.theroyalforums.com/foru...vents-thread-2020-a-47954-44.html#post2470196
Click to expand...
Thank you for correcting me on the legal issue with Delphine’s case. There’s nothing wrong with a step-parent adopting a step-child but this case here is a little different with Mario-Max, he was an adult when he was “adopted” and already had a last name from his biological father which is Wagner so it’s just weird, but that’s just that.
 
I guess iti shows that the German law was well thought through when it comes to the adoption of adults: you have to make the judge see that you really have a parent-child relationship that you want to express in the adoption. So prince Waldemar and Mario-Max prove that and one has to respect that. My second husband wanted to adopt my son from my first marriage who he raised from age 7 and who is 30 now but my son didn't want to take on his stepfathers name, so they didn't go to court. Waldemar and Mario-Max did for their own reasons and one has to respect that.
But the law says that the adotion of adults (other than children) does not create a family relation with other relations of the adopting parents and this the head of the family could decline that, of course. All perfectly legal and all as the law layed the foundation for changes in a family.
I personally am convinced it has to do with personal dislike because the prince Alexander has not been overly family-orientated with his own marriages. But that's normal, so why bother thinking about them?
 
Kataryn said:
I guess iti shows that the German law was well thought through when it comes to the adoption of adults: you have to make the judge see that you really have a parent-child relationship that you want to express in the adoption. So prince Waldemar and Mario-Max prove that and one has to respect that. My second husband wanted to adopt my son from my first marriage who he raised from age 7 and who is 30 now but my son didn't want to take on his stepfathers name, so they didn't go to court. Waldemar and Mario-Max did for their own reasons and one has to respect that.
But the law says that the adotion of adults (other than children) does not create a family relation with other relations of the adopting parents and this the head of the family could decline that, of course. All perfectly legal and all as the law layed the foundation for changes in a family.
I personally am convinced it has to do with personal dislike because the prince Alexander has not been overly family-orientated with his own marriages. But that's normal, so why bother thinking about them?
Click to expand...
Mario-Max wasn’t a child when the adoption was done. Waldemar already had a child from a previous marriage, a daughter. Well it’s quite easy to dislike Mario-Max because he’s using “his title” to be a cheap tacky celebrity amongst other things. I don’t believe the issue here is about Prince Alexander’s marriages or his issues of his marriages nor did he adopt any adult males. The point being is that Mario-Max is not a biological member of the House of Schaumburg-Lippe. He’s no different from Prince Frederic von Anhalt (Robert Litchberg) apart from the fact that he didn’t pay for his adoption. I have nothing against adoption or people who are adopted.
 
If I have understood correctly, paying to be adopted is prohibited German law and such adoptions are, in principle, fraudulent. In contrast, an adoption which expresses a parent-child relationship - even one which was formed in adulthood - has long been perfectly legal and surely has some measure of approval from the general public.

I fully agree with Kataryn that in the absence of evidence of fraud, a judge's evaluation that a parent-child relationship has been created and the parent and child's choice to express it through legal adoption should be respected. I can also understand the reasoning behind adult adoption not creating a legal family relation with other relations of the adopting parents.


SirGyamfi1 said:
Well it’s quite easy to dislike Mario-Max because he’s using “his title” to be a cheap tacky celebrity amongst other things. [...] I have nothing against adoption or people who are adopted.
Click to expand...

I can understand that, but there are also many biological and married-in members of royal and noble families who use "their titles" to be cheap tacky celebrities, without their entitlement to said titles being questioned. As you said, it would not be fair to tarnish adoption or adoptees in general.
 
Tatiana Maria said:
If I have understood correctly, paying to be adopted is prohibited German law and such adoptions are, in principle, fraudulent. In contrast, an adoption which expresses a parent-child relationship - even one which was formed in adulthood - has long been perfectly legal and surely has some measure of approval from the general public.

I fully agree with Kataryn that in the absence of evidence of fraud, a judge's evaluation that a parent-child relationship has been created and the parent and child's choice to express it through legal adoption should be respected. I can also understand the reasoning behind adult adoption not creating a legal family relation with other relations of the adopting parents.




I can understand that, but there are also many biological and married-in members of royal and noble families who use "their titles" to be cheap tacky celebrities, without their entitlement to said titles being questioned. As you said, it would not be fair to tarnish adoption or adoptees in general.
Click to expand...
Mario-Max didn’t pay to be adopted like Robert Litchenberg, but he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name, but whatever. People do strange things for all types of reasons. Onto to the “tacky celebrity” part, it is even tackier to do it as a “non-member” especially with how far Mario-Max has gone with it. I am aware that there are others who maybe legitimate members of these families or those who married in, but Mario-Max wasn’t even adopted by the head of the family but an embarrassing uncle who has no succession rights. He’s not even an illegitimate or female line descendant. I get that the court has its own ideas, but since we are talking about “royals and nobles” and blood kinship is key here, I don’t get why this is a topic of discussion. And before someone starts a snarky comment about the titles being last names which we all know is true, then the threads about “non-reigning royals” should be closed. Those others who are legitimate descendants of aristocratic or royal families some might be on the “tacky train”, but they are actually members of the families. Mario-Max, with all due respect is not a member.

Kataryn said:
I guess iti shows that the German law was well thought through when it comes to the adoption of adults: you have to make the judge see that you really have a parent-child relationship that you want to express in the adoption. So prince Waldemar and Mario-Max prove that and one has to respect that. My second husband wanted to adopt my son from my first marriage who he raised from age 7 and who is 30 now but my son didn't want to take on his stepfathers name, so they didn't go to court. Waldemar and Mario-Max did for their own reasons and one has to respect that.
But the law says that the adotion of adults (other than children) does not create a family relation with other relations of the adopting parents and this the head of the family could decline that, of course. All perfectly legal and all as the law layed the foundation for changes in a family.
I personally am convinced it has to do with personal dislike because the prince Alexander has not been overly family-orientated with his own marriages. But that's normal, so why bother thinking about them?
Click to expand...
What does Alexander not being family oriented have to do with any of this? In any case, Mario-Max is no blood member of the family. He can change his name to whatever he likes, but at the end of the day, he is not a descendant of the family in anyway, illegitimate, female-line or otherwise.
 
SirGyamfi1 said:
Mario-Max didn’t pay to be adopted like Robert Litchenberg, but he was already an adult when his mother married his stepfather and had his own last name so I don’t see why he changed his name, but whatever. People do strange things for all types of reasons. Onto to the “tacky celebrity” part, it is even tackier to do it as a “non-member” especially with how far Mario-Max has gone with it. I am aware that there are others who maybe legitimate members of these families or those who married in, but Mario-Max wasn’t even adopted by the head of the family but an embarrassing uncle who has no succession rights. He’s not even an illegitimate or female line descendant. I get that the court has its own ideas, but since we are talking about “royals and nobles” and blood kinship is key here, I don’t get why this is a topic of discussion. And before someone starts a snarky comment about the titles being last names which we all know is true, then the threads about “non-reigning royals” should be closed. Those others who are legitimate descendants of aristocratic or royal families some might be on the “tacky train”, but they are actually members of the families. Mario-Max, with all due respect is not a member.
Click to expand...




Actually Prince Waldemar was in the succession but very distant. and Mario-Max had previously already been adopted by Princess Helga-Lee, who was the widow of a cousin of Prince Waldemar's father (he was also a brother of Fürst Alexander#s grandmother Bathildis).
 
Stefan said:
Actually Prince Waldemar was in the succession but very distant. and Mario-Max had previously already been adopted by Princess Helga-Lee, who was the widow of a cousin of Prince Waldemar's father (he was also a brother of Fürst Alexander#s grandmother Bathildis).
Click to expand...
What I really meant in the case of Waldemar was that he had no son of his own, so the succession will bypass him anyways, but I get that he was in the succession very distantly. With that last statement, it seems that Mario-Max has been awaiting his “princely debut” for a long time from what you have said.
 
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