Oldest Royal and Noble Families

[kcc]

what royal/noble families have the oldest traceable ancesty.also is the massimo descent from an ancient roman general(maximus i believe) genuine.i find this fascinating so any info or input is much appreciated.

i forgot to mention that it does not matter wheather it is male or female line descent.

hi. let me start by saying that i have already asked this question in a different part of this forum,but recieved no reply. what royal/noble families have the oldest traceable lineage. also are the roman descents of the massimo, orsiniand antici-matei(sorry about the spelling)families genuine.thanks in advance.

 

[bct88]

I believe that the oldest is Denmark. The first king I believe was Gorm the Old in the 900s.

 

[Theilmann]

If the question is which is the oldest monarchy, then the answer is obviously Denmark, but as for families... I don't know if any royal/noble families can trace their roots back beyond the 900-hundreds.
Actually Gorm the Old wasn't the first King in the present line, he is just the first where we know for sure which year he was born, ascended the throne and died. There wasn't much of a litteral tradition in Denmark prior to Gorm, so any evidence has to be found either in stones ingraved with runes or in foreign accounts. Unfortunately those accounts only tell us the names of the kings and their lineage, not the dates of their accension,birth,death etc.

 

[hillary_nugent]

Denmark i heard is the oldest royal family...interesting topic i would love to hear more feedback ^__^

 

[kcc]

thanks for the replies. i thought of denmark as well,but i think the dynasty has changed a few times (like sweden).anyone know the origins of certain german houses such as bavaria or wurttemberg. oh and the italian families in the first post.

 

[tiaraprin]

the oldest monarchy by far is Denmark but there are other royal families whose lineage goes back farther such as the British Royals--before England was completely unified, there were several Royal witans--or clans each with a ruling prince or King.

 

[Iain]

I believe that the oldest reigning dynasty is the House of Tupou, the royal family of Tonga.

 

[kcc]

thank you for your reply. i never would have thought to consider polynesian royalty.now i have at least a couple of hours of research,which i greatly enjoy.

 

[Philippos]

Originally posted by Iain@Jun 5th, 2004 - 11:11 pm
I believe that the oldest reigning dynasty is the House of Tupou, the royal family of Tonga.

How long can one trace The Royal House's of Tonga male ancestry?

 

[tiaraprin]

Other long traceable royal geneologies are the English, Danish, and French Royal Families.

The English can extend back to the time of Boadicea I believe.

 

[Iain]

Originally posted by Philippos@Jun 12th, 2004 - 10:56 am

How long can one trace The Royal House's of Tonga male ancestry?

The first King reigned c.950. The present King is the 43rd monarch and traces his decent in unbroken line back to the first King.

 

[Iain]

Originally posted by tiaraprin@Jun 13th, 2004 - 11:11 pm
Other long traceable royal geneologies are the English, Danish, and French Royal Families.

The English can extend back to the time of Boadicea I believe.

The English Royal family died out in 1603.

 

[tiaraprin]

Originally posted by Iain+Jun 16th, 2004 - 10:22 am--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Iain @ Jun 16th, 2004 - 10:22 am)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-tiaraprin@Jun 13th, 2004 - 11:11 pm
Other long traceable royal geneologies are the English, Danish, and French Royal Families.

The English can extend back to the time of Boadicea I believe.

The English Royal family died out in 1603. [/b][/quote]
In the basic direct line it did, but its members married into the Royal Family of Scotland and that is how they came to the throne. If you wish to be more technical, It really died a more bitter death in 1714 with Queen Anne and the Hanoverian take-over. However, there are still blood ties to the English royal dynasties.

 

[Humera]

isnt the moroccan royal family quite old as well?
The Hashemites of Jordan are ofcourse one of the newest monarchs but the family goes way back to Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

 

[Julian]

kcc, I was told elsewhere by someone who really knows about the Italian high aristocracy that the roman princely families you ask about like Massimo, Orsini, Colonna, do *not* date back to the time of the roman empire. They are much more recent...i.e., the middle ages

 

[Iain]

The oldest ruling dynasty in the world are the House of Tupou who are the royal family of Tonga. The throne has passed through the one family for 43 generations.

 

[Iain]

the oldest monarchy by far is Denmark but there are other royal families whose lineage goes back farther such as the British Royals--before England was completely unified,

The English royal house died out in 1603. The present British royal family is decended from the Scots royal family who trace their origins back to King Fergus Mor who founded the Scots kingdom in AD498. This makes Scotland an older kingdom than Denmark.

 

[norwegianne]

Aye, but James, who ascended the throne after Elizabeth was a relative of hers. (His grandmother, wasn't it, who was a sister of Henry VIII?)
I suspect it all comes down to your criterias, who you ask and how your pose your questions, in matters such as these.

 

[hillary_nugent]

The English royal house died out in 1603. The present British royal family is decended from the Scots royal family who trace their origins back to King Fergus Mor who founded the Scots kingdom in AD498. This makes Scotland an older kingdom than Denmark.

So Queen Elizabeth II in actual fact Scottish? did the English royal family end with Queen Elizabeth I???

 

[Julian]

So Queen Elizabeth II in actual fact Scottish? did the English royal family end with Queen Elizabeth I???

To answer that--no, it didn't end completely with Elizabeth I, because James I who followed her was her heir because his grandmother, Margaret, was the sister of Henry VIII. She was a Tudor who married a Stuart. The most Scottish blood that the present Queen has may come through her own mother's family not the tiny amount she indirectly inherits so many generations back from James I.

 

[Humera]

Doesnt the present British monarchy have more German blood than English, or even British for that matter? According to several of the documentaries I've seen, the name "Windsor" is more of an alias. The German name was dropped because of war.

 

[hillary_nugent]

Doesnt the present British monarchy have more German blood than English, or even British for that matter? According to several of the documentaries I've seen, the name "Windsor" is more of an alias. The German name was dropped because of war.

YEah i heard about this as well...something about their previous surname beig German or sounding too German or something on those lines...and because they were fighting the Germans during WWI it didn't seem a good name to have...

 

[Veram98]

Doesnt the present British monarchy have more German blood than English, or even British for that matter? According to several of the documentaries I've seen, the name "Windsor" is more of an alias. The German name was dropped because of war.

The British Royal family is part of the German House of Saxe Coburg Gotha (by Prince Albert, the husband of Queen Victoria. Q. Victoria herself was the last member of the German house Hanover on the British throne). Prince Philip is a Greek prince, but the Greek dynastie was also German (Glücksburg; his mother was a Battenberg, that was translated into Mountbatten). Other branches of the Saxe Coburg Gotha are the Belgian and the former Bulgarian Royal families.
The princely house of Hanover (Princess Caroline of Monaco married the actual head) is one of the oldest European noble families. They started as "Welfen" in the 8th century and were in the 9th century kings of Burgundy.

 

[Veram98]

isnt the moroccan royal family quite old as well?
The Hashemites of Jordan are of course one of the newest monarchs but the family goes way back to Prophet Muhammad (SAW)

the Maroccan Alaouites (the ruling dynasty) are sherifs or ashrafs: descendants of Prophet Muhammad by his older grandson Hassan. They became sultans of Marocco (since the 1950s kings) in the 17th century.
The Hashemites of Jordan (also sherifs) have been ruling this country since 1921, but were before for more than 1000 years the rulers of Mecca and part of the Hejaz as emirs and "sherifs of the sherifs".

 

[Humera]

Thanx for the info Veram
I've often heard that Prince Phillip's uncle lord Mountbatten was looking forward to the British royal house being called the House of Mountbatten when Princess Elizabeth married Phillip. Mountbatten must've been quite the ambitious man. Im sure he was disappointed when Queen Elizabeth took the name Windsor instead.

 

[Julian]

Humera, I've often thought the exact same thing. Actually, the Queen effected a compromise after some years, in which the name for her descendants becomes Mountbatten-Windsor. I've never been sure if this begins with her own immediate children or with the grandchildren -- some posts I've read have said it begins with the grandchildren according to her Letters Patent, other people have pointed to the fact that Princess Anne signed the marriage register at her first wedding as "Anne Mountbatten-Windsor". But then Diana would announce herself on the phone as "Diana Windsor" so why do some still use only Windsor and not the full new name? It seems they pick and choose and do what they want.

 

[Reina]

Well I believe that the royal family members other than Charles and his descendants take on the name Mountbatten-Windsor out of courtesy and respect for P. Philip. But Charles and his descendants take on just Windsor to keep the family name going. I heard this from soemwhere a long time ago. I am not sure if it is true, but it makes sense to me.

 

[wymanda]

Prince Edward used the name "Edward Windsor" when he was making the Crown & Country series. Perhaps it was just that a single name would attract less attention than a double barrelled name like Mountbatten-Windsor? In Diana's case I would say it would depend on who she was phoning - If she was wanting to keep a visit low key she might use Windsor but if official I would assume she wouldn't phone herself anyway and a secretary or similar would announce her as HRH.

 

[Humera]

Prince Edward's daughter also has Mountbatten as part of her name. I dont think Princes William and Harry do though, not sure about Prince Andrew's daughters.

 

[kelly9480]

Anne only signed Anne. The MW was filled in by an official. The decree says that the male-line descendants who aren't entitled to be HRH are MWs, so Anne is technically a Windsor, regardless of what Philip likes to think.

Louise is entitled to be HRH, but is styled as a non-HRH. She is, according to the strictest interpretation of the decree, just Windsor. The first true MWs (following the decree to the letter) would be William's children (except for the eldest son, who will be HRH) and Harry's kids. Of course, EIIR will probably grant HRH to all of William's kids, so it would probably end up being Harry's kids.

Despite the fact that Charles, according to the decree, is clearly just Windsor, Clarence House referred to Diana as Diana MW, even though she couldn't have been MW because Charles isn't. It's ridiculously confusing, and hopefully they'll drop the M and just keep W. This changing of names to please a crochety old man is stupid.