Meghan Markle: Family and Background - November 2017-May 2018


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Osipi said:
Don't ask me why. Maybe its because its a discussion about people "rising above their station" in life that when I heard Cathy, the first thing that pops into my head is Cathy and Heathcliff from Wuthering Heights. Come to think of it, "rising above one's station" was the concurrent theme behind that story too.

People have never really fit into molds no matter how much the societies at the time wanted them to. To me, those that complain about "rising above" are those that accept that they've been put in a mold and and will stay there rather than rock the boat or make changes. From the unsinkable Molly Brown to the Middletons to Ms. Meghan Markle, those that had the guts and courage and the gumption to do something and get ahead in this world deserve everything they get from life. They've worked for it. :D
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Spot on Osipi! Spot on.
 
Osipi said:
People have never really fit into molds no matter how much the societies at the time wanted them to. To me, those that complain about "rising above" are those that accept that they've been put in a mold and and will stay there rather than rock the boat or make changes. From the unsinkable Molly Brown to the Middletons to Ms. Meghan Markle, those that had the guts and courage and the gumption to do something and get ahead in this world deserve everything they get from life. They've worked for it. :D
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I think this is a distinctly American perspective. :ermm: If one is born into a class/caste system, there are social agreements one inherits, rules one abides by since birth, that get one perks in that system. If someone in the next cubicle over (in a sense) isn't abiding by those social agreements and rules, it upends all my (and everyone's) diligent and life-long 'playing by the rules'. The 'upstart' gets 'punished' socially, maybe ostracized. Either they don't succeed in getting any perks ('only themselves to blame' for any hot water they find themselves in because they drew outside the lines) or they succeed wildly and make everyone else's obedient plodding 'nothing', 'fruitless', a mockery of their staying in the lines of the game as laid down since birth, and honoring those on the other side of the lines. It's no wonder resentment boils and bubbles in such social situations. :sad:

It also goes further: there are usually 'markers' for the classes. In some cases it is actual dialects that separate the 'high' (privileged/powerful) from the low (not privileged, not powerful), that bar transgression across the socially constructed 'classes'. In others it is genetic markers developed from generations of segregation (the skin color of the untouchable caste in India).

In America something unique developed in our national myth regarding transgression of the class boundaries, though in spades there are classes and markers between classes of people (skin color, ethnicity, religion, accent). The difference lies in the view of those that 'make it' to the top of the heap: admiration for work well done, etc. Instead of there being resentment, the reaction is: I can do that, too, or my children can do that, or my family can achieve that. In doing it, working for it, one is lauded, not resented. In fact, it has become a necessity to evidence such ambition or else be deemed 'lazy'. :cool:

So I think it's a cultural difference. The British view has got a lot of history behind it. It's when I see Americans opting in to the class snobbery of another culture that I find it perplexing. :sad:

If someone British would like to pop in, please do. This is all just the way I have figured it all out. Maybe I am wrong. JMO.
 
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I've been following this discussion and was at odds with myself in replying to it, but here goes!

The "caste" system not only applies to Britain. I will say that having been raised in the Appalachia region of the United States, and working my way out of it as a young one decades ago and coming back again as a much older adult when my husband received an excellent job offer, has been difficult. I heard as a child and a teenager "Don't get above your raisin', child". This was the typical response by elders to discourage the young ones from trying to break away from these mountains and go away to get an education or work elsewhere. I heard it often enough. I was a "snob" for trying to do so. I actually had family members turn their backs to me when I accomplished this feat. I heard "You got above your betters". Now all this is southern slang, but I wanted to point out that in some cultures elsewhere these thoughts still linger on......I don't hear it as much here today because so many young ones have fled the Appalachian coal fields in search of jobs.

But I do understand it. And now you know how old I am. ;)
 
Lady Nimue said:
I think this is a distinctly American perspective. :ermm: If one is born into a class/caste system, there are social agreements one inherits, rules one abides by since birth, that get one perks in that system. If someone in the next cubicle over (in a sense) isn't abiding by those social agreements and rules, it upends all my (and everyone's) diligent and life-long 'playing by the rules'. The 'upstart' gets 'punished' socially, maybe ostracized. Either they don't succeed in getting any perks ('only themselves to blame' for any hot water they find themselves in because they drew outside the lines) or they succeed wildly and make everyone else's obedient plodding 'nothing', 'fruitless', a mockery of their staying in the lines of the game as laid down since birth, and honoring those on the other side of the lines. It's no wonder resentment boils and bubbles in such social situations. :sad:

It also goes further: there are usually 'markers' for the classes. In some cases it is actual dialects that separate the 'high' (privileged/powerful) from the low (not privileged, not powerful), that bar transgression across the socially constructed 'classes'. In others it is genetic markers developed from generations of segregation (the skin color of the untouchable caste in India).

In America something unique developed in our national myth regarding transgression of the class boundaries, though in spades there are classes and markers between classes of people (skin color, ethnicity, religion, accent). The difference lies in the view of those that 'make it' to the top of the heap: admiration for work well done, etc. Instead of there being resentment, the reaction is: I can do that, too, or my children can do that, or my family can achieve that. In doing it, working for it, one is lauded, not resented. In fact, it has become a necessity to evidence such ambition or else be deemed 'lazy'. :cool:

So I think it's a cultural difference. The British view has got a lot of history behind it. It's when I see Americans opting in to the class snobbery of another culture that I find it perplexing. :sad:

If someone British would like to pop in, please do. This is all just the way I have figured it all out. Maybe I am wrong. JMO.
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This is an excellent explanation. Thank you!:flowers:
 
Interesting thing is judging by the younger royals who have married across social class and also internationally they really don't care about the caste system at all. It's a brand new world, I hope the media catches up.
 
Tamara77 said:
I've been following this discussion and was at odds with myself in replying to it, but here goes!

The "caste" system not only applies to Britain. I will say that having been raised in the Appalachia region of the United States, and working my way out of it as a young one decades ago and coming back again as a much older adult when my husband received an excellent job offer, has been difficult. I heard as a child and a teenager "Don't get above your raisin', child". This was the typical response by elders to discourage the young ones from trying to break away from these mountains and go away to get an education or work elsewhere. I heard it often enough. I was a "snob" for trying to do so. I actually had family members turn their backs to me when I accomplished this feat. I heard "You got above your betters". Now all this is southern slang, but I wanted to point out that in some cultures elsewhere these thoughts still linger on......I don't hear it as much here today because so many young ones have fled the Appalachian coal fields in search of jobs.

But I do understand it. And now you know how old I am. ;)
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I agree with this. I will say one more thing that I've noticed. It's not always those are already in the higher social class that has issues with this type of thing. What I find more is people who didn't achieve the same level of success having this view. I have to wonder in that case if it's jealousy based on their own inability to move upward?
 
jacqui24 said:
I agree with this. I will say one more thing that I've noticed. It's not always those are already in the higher social class that has issues with this type of thing. What I find more is people who didn't achieve the same level of success having this view. I have to wonder in that case if it's jealousy based on their own inability to move upward?
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But to keep in mind that in a really stiff. rigid class system, one does not advance no matter how hard one tries, hence the significant anger and resentment. I think this may apply in Britain to an extent even now (please correct me if I am wrong). The biggest marker is one's accent, which is why serious effort is made to un-learn one's accent. (I have a British friend who refuses to even demonstrate her natal Yorkshire accent, not even in fun, for me, an American friend). It's why Catherine had to learn the upper-crust accent. If she is to be honored, curtseyed to, given perks as the future Queen, she needs to exhibit the marker for high status, which includes (in spades) her accent. :cool:

There is an interesting double whammy with Catherine: she needed to improve her upper crust accent, but doing so meant that some people hector her for the attempt (silk purse/sow's ear syndrome). :sad:
 
Wow, man buys beers. What a news story! Or is the inference by the Mirror that Tom is an alcoholic who drowns his sorrows every day about his strained relationship with his daughter, a relationship that was strained when she was eighteen, nearly two decades ago, but is now close according to family members? These tabloids are just the pits!
 
Social class in Britain is not what it was thirty or even twenty years ago, IMO. Accents matter less and less, the ascent upwards (and down) has become much more fluid. The class indicator below shows the divergence, the emerging of at least seven different social classes. This has been much discussed in Britain.

Huge survey reveals seven social classes in UK - BBC News

Plus, there have been interesting surveys conducted in the US since 2011 that have shown that those struggling at the lower levels there are finding it harder to rise. An article in the New York Times a while ago stated that studies have shown that, against the common perceptions, it's actually easier to get ahead in Britain socially and economically than in the US over the past few years.
 
Meghan is about 5'7 from what I have read...her mom looks a bit shorter. Her dad is around Harry's height.



LaRae
 
I haven’t seen this interview of Meghan before. It was on Water Day 2016 I believe. She talks about her work with World Vision here.

 
I hadn't seen that clip before. Very impressive in the commitment to clean water in Rwanda and throughout the Third World. Do you have a link, please?
 
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Great interview. Although my one critique is that I found her to be slightly dismissive of the awful plight of folks in Flint whose children will be dealing with the impact of polluted water for the rest of their lives and where many people cannot afford to leave. On the flip, I am happy to hear her draw some connections there.

Interesting that she states she has been connected to WV for a while. Don't think I knew she was connected to them before her ambassadorship.
 
Zaira said:
Great interview. Although my one critique is that I found her to be slightly dismissive of the awful plight of folks in Flint whose children will be dealing with the impact of polluted water for the rest of their lives and where many people cannot afford to leave. On the flip, I am happy to hear her draw some connections there.

Interesting that she states she has been connected to WV for a while. Don't think I knew she was connected to them before her ambassadorship.
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I don't find her dismissive at all about the ordeal in Flint. She mentioned them, which she didn't need to, considering she was there promoting world vision. Simply mentioned that the US has a structure and frame work to deal with it. As horrible to say as it is, that people need to buy bottled water, there is the option. There is the resources to deal with the issue, and though it took time, the levels are at adequate now.

Unfortunately for people in Africa, they don't have the option to 'buy bottled water' nor simply 'boil the water'. These people walk miles for water, and they don't have the option. That was her point.

Meghan mentioned being involved. Many people are involved. I am involved in world vision. As a sponsor. You sponsor children and the money you donate goes to them as well as their village. Its a very common donation in Canada, a lot of people do.
 
Countessmeout said:
I don't find her dismissive at all about the ordeal in Flint. She mentioned them, which she didn't need to, considering she was there promoting world vision. Simply mentioned that the US has a structure and frame work to deal with it. As horrible to say as it is, that people need to buy bottled water, there is the option. There is the resources to deal with the issue, and though it took time, the levels are at adequate now.

Unfortunately for people in Africa, they don't have the option to 'buy bottled water' nor simply 'boil the water'. These people walk miles for water, and they don't have the option. That was her point.

Meghan mentioned being involved. Many people are involved. I am involved in world vision. As a sponsor. You sponsor children and the money you donate goes to them as well as their village. Its a very common donation in Canada, a lot of people do.
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I still found her quote off putting as someone who has been on the ground in Flint pretty recently, and I can tell you its hardly something I would call dealt with or at level. But I obviously take your point that there is different levels of response in Flint versus Rwanda or other places which face water insecurity.

I am very aware of WV's reach as I interned with them during college focusing on the their ME peace work :flowers: I had just never heard Meghan mention being involved with them prior to the water campaign in a personal way, and I was pleased to hear she did have a personal connection going back a while.

Speaking of connections to faith groups, Catholic News Service ran a piece on Meghan! Meghan had apparently called one of her theology teachers from HS a great inspiration for her and the Catholic Social Justice theology an incredible foundation for her later work. She stated this in a book she took part in last year I guess. It is very cool to see how so many different communities are connecting with Meghan and her journey. ? You need a subscription to read the article. I only got to read it because my aunt is a subscriber and found it and thought she would share it with given my Markle Mania lol ? I will try to pull the text for folks too.

Catholic high school teacher inspired Meghan Markle's outreach
 
Honestly, I didn’t find her dismissive because she was giving examples of water problems in the developed world and it really doesn’t compare to the situation in Africa. I also think sometimes being boots on the ground gives a different perspective on different situations.

Anyways, I hope to share this not only because Meghan, but it also highlights a issue around the world. I think it’s good for us that lives in the western world (or at least me) to see situation like this. I don’t think most people think twice about how lucky we are to have easy access to clean water and how that small thing we think about actually holds others back so much when they don’t have it.
 
There's probably no problem with the Meghan news commentary in your country Zaira because you don't have to put up with tabloids pointing offensively to dreadlocks and 'straight outa Compton' and 'exotic blood' about which Harry was so annoyed.
However, it's heartwarming to read, as I did the other day, that Nigerians and other Commonwealth citizens from African nations are now taking a keen interest in this romance.
 
Curryong said:
There's probably no problem with the Meghan news commentary in your country Zaira because you don't have to put up with tabloids pointing offensively to dreadlocks and 'straight outa Compton' and 'exotic blood' about which Harry was so annoyed.
However, it's heartwarming to read, as I did the other day, that Nigerians and other Commonwealth citizens from African nations are now taking a keen interest in this romance.
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Yes, it was quite weird reading about how she'll thicken the royal blood line. It's like, does she have starch in her blood or something? I think that comment can from Boris Johnson's sister too.
 
Yes, she was one of the so-called journalists at the time who, when their words were thrown back at them, pretended to not know what people were objecting to.
 
I was just reading an article about something Meghan said when she was talking about The Tig well before she met Harry. She was talking about she hopes the site will highlight some of the issues in society. She said there will be superficial things, like clothes and makeup and such, that will attract an audience, but she hopes that that type of thing will inadvertently also bring attention to the social changes.

If you take The Tig out of it. Isn't this what the royals basically do? They highlight issues, but part of it is also because the glamour attracts attention, and by being there, they bring the attention along with them. It still blows my mind how Harry ended up finding such a perfect woman for him and his role. She was doing this type of stuff even before she met him, not just fall into it because she met him. Life doesn't work out like that for everyone. :lol:
 
jacqui24 said:
I was just reading an article about something Meghan said when she was talking about The Tig well before she met Harry. She was talking about she hopes the site will highlight some of the issues in society. She said there will be superficial things, like clothes and makeup and such, that will attract an audience, but she hopes that that type of thing will inadvertently also bring attention to the social changes.

If you take The Tig out of it. Isn't this what the royals basically do? They highlight issues, but part of it is also because the glamour attracts attention, and by being there, they bring the attention along with them. It still blows my mind how Harry ended up finding such a perfect woman for him and his role. She was doing this type of stuff even before she met him, not just fall into it because she met him. Life doesn't work out like that for everyone. :lol:
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I agree. Not sure this is the right thread for it or if it has been posted before but the video demonstrates just some of her good deeds. Start from the 9.55 point
 
Thank you Rudolph. He didn’t say much but what he said is all I needed to hear!
 
I just hope he can handle the attention because the British tabloids won’t leave him alone. Some people can and others can’t. Meghan’s mom seems comfortable so far but I don’t much about this guy.

His days of being ‘anonymous’ in Mexico are over though.
 
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