Mary's Accent and Languages

[polyesco]

thank you Madame Royale and Muhler for the bits of history. really a pleasure to read

 

[FasterB]

The church that stood there where Mary and Frederik was married was among the buildings destroyed. The spire falling in the flames is a particular favorite motive among artists depicting the bombardment. (I'm sure FasterB can confirm if that is correct or not).

You are absolutely correct, Muhler

 

[Sun Lion]

A pleasure, Sun Lion.

The Danish monarchy is of particular interest and I have myself visited Denmark previously. I am by no means as up to date with Danish history as those Danes who also post on this forum, nor do I have my finger on 'the pulse' so to speak. But nonetheless, the history of the Danish monarchy does interest me greatly and it is spectacular at that

Hi Madame Royale - do you have posts regarding your experiences in Denmark?

May I ask how you found the language barrier?

I'm interested in the "look" of Denmark - so different to most parts of Australia - did you see many of the Royal and historic buildings and gardens? Is it as it looks in photos, or different when you're actually there, and how did it match your impressions? (Did you get any suprises regarding your expectations, and the reality?)

Thank you, Sun Lion.

"Well, the world would certainly have been different had Napoleon not been around. - And I think, not a better place......

Muhler I'm astounded at your efforts in your posts, and I thank you for your time in sharing your knowledge.

The only part I knew was the story of Nelson putting the telescope to his blind eye, but I didn't realise this involved Denmark, and I didn't realise Copenhagen had undergone such attack.

(A bit shocked at Denmark being involved in the transportation of slaves too - we also weren't taught about England's involvement either, though British history was the next most important in our schooling after our own.)

Do you have an interest in history, or is this a normal part of the Danish upbringing - to know such detail?

Could I ask you, and any other Danish posters, as tourists we outsiders would naturally visit whatever historic sites are open, but is this a part of normal Danish life? Do you pack up the family and have an excursion to a castle, or picnic in a garden/park, as a normal outing, or are these place more a "background" to everyday living and "just there" and not particularly paid attention to?

I ask because it all looks so "historic" a setting to be living your life in. Most of Australia's buildings are modern, unless you go to a regional town or country centre where nothing is more that 200 years old. (And these are only still standing due to a lack of money or a need to replace them. In Sydney and Melbourne, where money and "need" have prevailed, a lot has been replaced over the years, though we now have Heritage acts to protect buildings and even in places individual trees. My building is only from the 1960s/70s and can't be changed as it now has heritage listing as a typical apartment building from that time. We've learnt to stop losing things in our rush forward.)

Thank you again Mulher,

Cheers, Sun Lion.

 

[Madame Royale]

I may have mentioned my travels when related to an opinion or particular coversation, but otherwise not really.

As for the language, I thoroughly enjoy listening to spoken Danish and can converse at a very basic level. Perhaps a level higher than that of a tourist (by no means anything impressive) who has taken advantage of studying their Lonely Planet pocket book. From what I've been told, I articulate myself quite well, though at times the sentence structure can be difficult for a non native speaker.

Many Danes speak very good english so travellers would hardly have a problem communicating. But it's always nice, and respectful imo, to at least give the native lingo a try. It's all part of the experience.

I think Denmark is what you would expect a Kingdom to look like in a fairytale. It's unlike any other country I've visited and I found it to be very clean (not that that surprised me). The castles of Frederiksborg, Rosenborg and Kronborg (home of Hamlet) are breathtakingly beautiful; as are the palaces' of Amalienborg, Fredensborg and Christiansborg. The manicured gardens of Rosenborg are so lovely and well layed out and the park in Fredensborg is a must see as well.

There is one castle, called Dragsholm, that had a very eerie presence about it that I didn't like at all. It serves as a hotel and restuarant, but I would not stay there. A little too much negative energy for my likeing. It's white and is quite imposing to look at. By appearance it looks a bit like an asylum. It also served as a prison for many years back in the middle ages.

The cuisine I enjoyed and even had a few beers! When in Rome..

The fortification of Christianshaven island (bohemian and quite fashionable) is a very prominent tourist destination in Copenhagen, as well. It's across the way from Amalienborg and amongst ofther notable attractions houses the Copenhagen Opera House and the divine Noma restuarant.

I rarely travel with expectations as I find expectations can often leave one dissapointed. One must travel with an open mind. My experiences in Denmark are amongst my favourite of anywhere I have travelled in the world. I cannot speak highly enough of this quaint, yet ultra modern society.

And what I noticed is that Danes and Australian's share a partciular dry and sarcastic sense of humour!

 

[Muhler]

Muhler I'm astounded at your efforts in your posts, and I thank you for your time in sharing your knowledge.

(A bit shocked at Denmark being involved in the transportation of slaves too - we also weren't taught about England's involvement either, though British history was the next most important in our schooling after our own.)

You are most welcome.

Yes, it's not something that is talked a lot about.
Mind you it wasn't only European countries that transported slaves from Africa.
The Arabs, the Indians and even Chinese had black slaves. some Native Americans owened black slaves as well.
The slave trade wouldn't have been possible on this huge scale without a very active co-operation from other Africans. - All of that is something that tends to be sweeped under the carpet.
But the traffic could go the other way too. According to recent research around two million Europeans (including Danes), often sailors, became slaves in Muslim North Africa, between 1500 or so and 1800. So many that "ransom-funds" were normal.
Even far away Iceland was raided by Muslim pirates on the prowl for slaves.
Unfortunate Europeans ended up as slaves on Madagascar as late as mid 1800's.

Do you have an interest in history, or is this a normal part of the Danish upbringing - to know such detail?

Could I ask you, and any other Danish posters, as tourists we outsiders would naturally visit whatever historic sites are open, but is this a part of normal Danish life? Do you pack up the family and have an excursion to a castle, or picnic in a garden/park, as a normal outing, or are these place more a "background" to everyday living and "just there" and not particularly paid attention to?

Well, as you can perhaps tell, history is my passion.
Your question is interesting and I'm perhaps a little biased in regards to historical sites. But I'd say when we as a family go for a ride in the country, it's quite normal that we take a look at historical sites as well. But Mrs. Muhler and I both grew up that way.
But I think you nail it when you suggest that history is a part of the background scenery.
I will certainly also be interested in the opinion of other Danish posters.

Mary and in particular our Marie has a huge advantage in this sense as well. Partly because they have a mother in law who knows a lot about history, but in Marie's case because Joachim also has a great interest in history. I know from one who took part in the renovation of Kancellihuset at Fredensborg, that Frederik one day turned up and started to chat with the artisans about the building and palace. And he clearly knew what he was talking about!

I ask because it all looks so "historic" a setting to be living your life in. Most of Australia's buildings are modern, unless you go to a regional town or country centre where nothing is more that 200 years old. (And these are only still standing due to a lack of money or a need to replace them. In Sydney and Melbourne, where money and "need" have prevailed, a lot has been replaced over the years, though we now have Heritage acts to protect buildings and even in places individual trees. My building is only from the 1960s/70s and can't be changed as it now has heritage listing as a typical apartment building from that time. We've learnt to stop losing things in our rush forward.)

Well, you have the priviledge to live at a time when your country was young. I think some of your decendants will envy you.

Goodnight Sun Lion and thank you for your interest in our history.

There is one castle, called Dragsholm, that had a very eerie presence about it that I didn't like at all. It serves as a hotel and restuarant, but I would not stay there. A little too much negative energy for my likeing. It's white and is quite imposing to look at. By appearance it looks a bit like an asylum. It also served as a prison for many years back in the middle ages.

I can't resist that one!
No wonder you found Dragsholm sinister, Madame Royale.

The Earl of Bothwell ended up there.
After his, ahem, troubles involving Mary, Queen of Scots, he went to Denmark to seek asylum.
He ended up in Dragsholm, a remote forbidding castle where politically undesirables where housed. There he went insane and later died.

I have my doubt as to how insane he really was.
By being declared insane - and locked away, he was out of the political picture. He was treated well and according to his status, but in reality he was imprisoned.
However I can easily envision how a telephone conversation between QEI and King Frederik would have been:

"Hi Elizabeth.
The Earl of Bothwell? Don't you worry. He's gone mad. Complete loco. I've found a nice place for him, where he will be forgot... eh, taken well care of for the rest of his life".

"Excellent, Frederik! - I mean, how sad. What a pity but I'm glad he's taken well care of. Give my best to the Queen".

It was politically convenient for DK to place the Earl in Dragsholm, because both Denmark and England were interested in good relations. But there was on the other hand no Danish interest in just killing ham.
And should the political situation change, he could always "get well" or alternatively die from some "illness".

 

[Madame Royale]

Actually Muhler, I initially wanted to visit Dragsholm because of the connection with the Earl of Bothwell; but when I arrived I found I didn't want to stay very long

 

[FasterB]

Well, as you can perhaps tell, history is my passion.
Your question is interesting and I'm perhaps a little biased in regards to historical sites. But I'd say when we as a family go for a ride in the country, it's quite normal that we take a look at historical sites as well. But Mrs. Muhler and I both grew up that way.
But I think you nail it when you suggest that history is a part of the background scenery.
I will certainly also be interested in the opinion of other Danish posters.

I grew up in that way too. Learning about our history, but how much do I remember now
I read the book written by Hertha J. Enevoldsen about the danish kings and queens and loooooved them.

So all in all I think I have a good background knowledge, but no where near to that of Muhlers.

 

[Sun Lion]

I may have mentioned my travels when related to an opinion or particular coversation, but otherwise not really.

As for the language, I thoroughly enjoy listening to spoken Danish and can converse at a very basic level. Perhaps a level higher than that of a tourist (by no means anything impressive) who has taken advantage of studying their Lonely Planet pocket book. From what I've been told, I articulate myself quite well, though at times the sentence structure can be difficult for a non native speaker.

Many Danes speak very good english so travellers would hardly have a problem communicating. But it's always nice, and respectful imo, to at least give the native lingo a try. It's all part of the experience.

I think Denmark is what you would expect a Kingdom to look like in a fairytale. It's unlike any other country I've visited and I found it to be very clean (not that that surprised me). The castles of Frederiksborg, Rosenborg and Kronborg (home of Hamlet) are breathtakingly beautiful; as are the palaces' of Amalienborg, Fredensborg and Christiansborg. The manicured gardens of Rosenborg are so lovely and well layed out and the park in Fredensborg is a must see as well.

There is one castle, called Dragsholm, that had a very eerie presence about it that I didn't like at all. It serves as a hotel and restuarant, but I would not stay there. A little too much negative energy for my likeing. It's white and is quite imposing to look at. By appearance it looks a bit like an asylum. It also served as a prison for many years back in the middle ages.

The cuisine I enjoyed and even had a few beers! When in Rome..

The fortification of Christianshaven island (bohemian and quite fashionable) is a very prominent tourist destination in Copenhagen, as well. It's across the way from Amalienborg and amongst ofther notable attractions houses the Copenhagen Opera House and the divine Noma restuarant.

I rarely travel with expectations as I find expectations can often leave one dissapointed. One must travel with an open mind. My experiences in Denmark are amongst my favourite of anywhere I have travelled in the world. I cannot speak highly enough of this quaint, yet ultra modern society.

And what I noticed is that Danes and Australian's share a partciular dry and sarcastic sense of humour!

Thank you for your feedback Madame Royal - it's nice to hear about a fellow Australian's experiences of actually being there. I appreciate your time spent in responding.

Interesting that you had an awareness of the (negative) energy at the place that had such a bad and sad history.

Good to know Aussies and Danes share a sense of humour - always a good bridge between cultures.

(And lovely to hear that Denmark is "very clean" - that alone always makes a society feel safer, and that people have invested themselves in their "space" happily and with commitment.)

Cheers, Sun Lion.

You are most welcome.

Yes, it's not something that is talked a lot about.
Mind you it wasn't only European countries that transported slaves from Africa.
The Arabs, the Indians and even Chinese had black slaves. some Native Americans owened black slaves as well.
The slave trade wouldn't have been possible on this huge scale without a very active co-operation from other Africans. - All of that is something that tends to be sweeped under the carpet.
But the traffic could go the other way too. According to recent research around two million Europeans (including Danes), often sailors, became slaves in Muslim North Africa, between 1500 or so and 1800. So many that "ransom-funds" were normal.
Even far away Iceland was raided by Muslim pirates on the prowl for slaves.
Unfortunate Europeans ended up as slaves on Madagascar as late as mid 1800's.

Hi Muhler - another eye-opening post from you. Thank you.

Shocking about the slavery of so many different people - even way up in Iceland. Dreadful times.

Nice to know your beautiful places are appreciated - at least by you and FasterB.

(Many "native" Sydney-siders have never walked across our Sydney Harbour Bridge in their entire lives - while it can be very, very crowded at times with all the tourists from overseas. Easy to take things for granted when they're there all the time.)

Thank you again, Cheers, Sun Lion.

 

[Muhler]

You are welcome Sun Lion.

I think however we should wrap up now and move any further historical subject to a general history thread in the history sub section.

 

[Meraude]

Shocking about the slavery of so many different people - even way up in Iceland. Dreadful times.

Even the Scandinavian Vikings had slaves, thralls and ambatts, some of them were native Scandinavians, others were taken as prizes of plunder during the Viking raids and travels, both to the east and to the west.

It's worth to remember that slavery is not a thing of the past, it still exist today.

 

[Sun Lion]

Even the Scandinavian Vikings had slaves, thralls and ambatts, some of them were native Scandinavians, others were taken as prizes of plunder during the Viking raids and travels, both to the east and to the west.

It's worth to remember that slavery is not a thing of the past, it still exist today.

So true Meraude, so unfortunately true.

 

[nwinther]

Even the Scandinavian Vikings had slaves, thralls and ambatts, some of them were native Scandinavians, others were taken as prizes of plunder during the Viking raids and travels, both to the east and to the west.

It's worth to remember that slavery is not a thing of the past, it still exist today.

Thralls are an interesting concept BTW. While it is slavery, there were rudementary "citizenship" elements involved. As such, a thrall had his own money and properties which was his and the "owner" couldn't confiscate or steal. There's even talk of "wealthy" thralls and they could eventually buy their freedom.

This wealth came from the thrall doing business in his own, free time (so to speak). This is a peculiar aspect of the conceps of trall vs. outright slave (i.e. black slaves in USA etc.).

 

[teia]

Hi to Sun Lion and Muhler as well as to many others!
To Sun: for having a few languages 'under my belt' as you say, they are just part of 1: Belgium has 3 national languages, Flemish, French and German. If you go to public schools you have to learn all of them since the age of 6 (that make things a lot easier later in life)
2: I am the happy wife of an expat and therefore have the opportunity to live, learn about languages, cultures, dialects and accents I love all of those items very much

Living in the Venetian regian means that I encounter many various people from many different nationalities. I am therefore so lucky to be able to socialize in a quite easy way because there is no lack of communication.
One negative thing is: I speak all those different languages but none perfectely as you must have noticed

To Muhler: your insight is always somewhere 5 stars-like and I adore it! The negative thing is, not really on the contrary! That with the information you provide us, I have a lack of time on TRF because I got more interested in the Scandinvian history on it's whole! Many thanks!

I feel really quite silly as I get far more information from all of you that I can give in return

In Italy they say, 'patience' (Italians like it the easy way)

Indeed.
You're right; Marie is learning Danish fast now; you can hear it each time she's on TV.
Mary has also achieved a quite substantial vocabulary. I remember the TV programme about the restoration of their palace. At one point Frederik and Mary and the architect I think it was are standing in front of a shelf or fireplace and Frederik says that you can place - and then the word eludes him - on it. Mary then askes if he means 'nips' (trinkets). Nips is not something you say very often and I thought it was indicative of her expanding vocabulary.

And one day I hope that prince Henrik - in spite of his very heavy accent which through the years have offended so many Danes - will truly be acknowledged for his vocabulary in Danish. It really is quite impressive from what I have heard.

I find it so hard to understand why Danish or others can be offended by someone who speaks with an accent... I am only trying to understand it. A lack of vocabulary, havy grammatical errors etc. for a 'public' person like Henrik this would be likely 'not appreciated' but an accent? Can also be cute

Hi UserDane - "nips" is interesting. It shows the influence of Danish on English, back in the old, old days I think.
We say things like "a nip of brandy" - meaning a small amount of brandy - or "the dog nipped me" - a small bite etc. (Nip being something small - like a trinket being a small token/object.)

Cheers, Sun Lion.




Hi Teia - wonderful for you to have so many languages under your belt.

Most Aussies have only English - unless they or their parents have migrated here - and that I think adds to our sense of isolation. (Also, I know of many grandparent migrants who only have their original language and the grandchildren who have only English -being born here - and only the middle generation having both languages. Sad as the "oldies" and the "youngies" can't talk to each other. Very isolating for the "oldies" too - no newspapers, TV, etc.)

Asian languages are taught more in the school system now, (more than German or French as during my schooling days), but these keep being dropped as so few student keep going with them, and also because whereas our major trading partner used to be Japan, (hence Japanese was big at one time), now it is Mandarin for China.

We sometimes see reports in the papers here, about the situation re Flemish speaking and French speaking Belgium. I didn't know Flemish was a form of Dutch - of perhaps, Dutch is a form of Flemish.

Many Dutch, (and German) people moved to Tasmania in the years after the Second World War. (Asians to Sydney, Greek and Italians to Melbourne, English to Adelaide.) Tasmania of course is a Dutch name - for Abel Tasman, previous name for Tas was also Dutch - "Van Dieman's Land", while Australia used to be called "New Holland".

These families are very established now, but their influence on Oz continues. My husband's family, all very middle-aged, still sound English to my family from Tas, as the South Australian school system had many migrant English teachers back in the 1950s and 60s, so they speak with that influence, even though they grew up in the outback later as teenagers, (very "broad" Australian influences there.)

Cheers, Sun Lion.




Hi Again Muhler, I've been reading the posts about Queen Ingrid and wondered in view of your post re Danes being a tribe, how do people feel about the mixture of genes coming into the Royal Family.

That is, Queen Margrethe being 1/2 Swedish through her mother, CP Frederick being 1/2 French through his father, and future King Christian being 1/2 Scottish through CP Mary - (I think Mary has only Scottish genes through her parents, though she will have an Australian influence on her children through her upbringing and formative years here.)?

Is it viewed as good, bad, or like Goldilocks "just right" and doesn't matter, as long as they uphold all good things Danish as they play out their roles?

Thanks, Sun Lion.

Hi Sun Lion!

I had no idea that in Australia the media is talking about the silly Belgian Flemish/Wallon(French speaking part) problem... and as always I am very ashamed about it... this is IMO without any sense at all!
The point I want to make is, do not be fooled with media, the truth of the matter is, the linguistic problem is none (or less) the problem is, unfortunately, an economic/political one and since a long long time!!!
To tackle this problem we would need a separate forum
Bye Sun Lion and thanks!

 

[UserDane]

I find it so hard to understand why Danish or others can be offended by someone who speaks with an accent... I am only trying to understand it. A lack of vocabulary, havy grammatical errors etc. for a 'public' person like Henrik this would be likely 'not appreciated' but an accent? Can also be cute

Hi teia
I agree completely; accents can be very charming. But if you follow royal discussions boards, you'll notice that accents is often a big issue with people, not only in Denmark.

 

[Sun Lion]

Thralls are an interesting concept BTW. While it is slavery, there were rudementary "citizenship" elements involved. As such, a thrall had his own money and properties which was his and the "owner" couldn't confiscate or steal. There's even talk of "wealthy" thralls and they could eventually buy their freedom.

This wealth came from the thrall doing business in his own, free time (so to speak). This is a peculiar aspect of the conceps of trall vs. outright slave (i.e. black slaves in USA etc.).

Hi nwinther - a bit like our convicts.

If they were well behaved they could become a "ticket-of-leave" man, or woman.

That meant they could work for themselves, get married and own property.

Many went onto build our best bridges, churches and government buildings, or establish our agricultural foundations and make social reforms and enter government.

(Others ran off when assigned to work on settler's properties and became bush-rangers living of the land and stealing from settlements, coaches etc. Still others thought they could walk to China and ended up hopelessly lost in the bush and turned to canabilisim of their companion escapees in their madness.)

Interesting how these systems, while we wouldn't want them today, at least provided shelter, food and a structure to peoples lives at a time when there weren't government systems to support education, health, housing and so on.

Cheers, Sun Lion.

Hi to Sun Lion and Muhler as well as to many others!
To Sun: for having a few languages 'under my belt' as you say, they are just part of 1: Belgium has 3 national languages, Flemish, French and German. If you go to public schools you have to learn all of them since the age of 6 (that make things a lot easier later in life)
2: I am the happy wife of an expat and therefore have the opportunity to live, learn about languages, cultures, dialects and accents I love all of those items very much

Living in the Venetian regian means that I encounter many various people from many different nationalities. I am therefore so lucky to be able to socialize in a quite easy way because there is no lack of communication.
One negative thing is: I speak all those different languages but none perfectely as you must have noticed

To Muhler: your insight is always somewhere 5 stars-like and I adore it! The negative thing is, not really on the contrary! That with the information you provide us, I have a lack of time on TRF because I got more interested in the Scandinvian history on it's whole! Many thanks!

I feel really quite silly as I get far more information from all of you that I can give in return

In Italy they say, 'patience' (Italians like it the easy way)

Hi again teia.

Don't worry about your English not being perfect - it is certainly good enough for you to be understood, and it must be wonderful to be able to communicate with so many different peoples.

Yes, I agree we've had some history lessons here. (Muhler is suggesting this be moved to a more appropriate thread - good idea as I think people like to share their culture and national ideas, and these spring from our history, as well as our current environment.)

Agree also, The Royal Forums has been a great resource. I don't always post, but have been around a lot of interesting threads filling in the "blanks" about many Royal Families I haven't kept up with over the recent years, but now have more time for.

Best Wishes,

Sun Lion.

 

[Muhler]

Hi to Sun Lion and Muhler as well as to many others!

To Muhler: your insight is always somewhere 5 stars-like and I adore it! The negative thing is, not really on the contrary! That with the information you provide us, I have a lack of time on TRF because I got more interested in the Scandinvian history on it's whole! Many thanks!

I feel really quite silly as I get far more information from all of you that I can give in return

You are most kind, Teia. I blush.
However, I'm pretty sure you could teach me a thing or two about Italy.

But to return to Mary and the typical grammatical mistakes she makes at her current level.

In order to explain that, let's first look at two words: Car. In Danish: bil. And house, in Danish: hus.
Car = Bil.
A car = En bil.
The car = Bilen.
Cars = Biler.
The cars = Bilerne.
That car = Den bil.
These cars = Disse biler.

House = Hus.
A house = Et hus.
The house = Huset.
Houses = Huse.
The houses = Husene.
That house = Det hus.
These houses = Disse huse.

A common mistake among English speakers, Mary being one, is that she can have problems figuring out when it's "et" or "en" in front of a noun. Just as non-English speakers can have problems with a and an. - Hardly the most serious mistake in world, eh?
Another common thing I have noticed is when she for example wants to say the car. Which in Danish is bilen. However Mary sometimes reverts back to a kind of Danglish and says: "Den bil", Which in Danish means that car. - The ingrained usage of "the" hasn't been forgotten.

But several Jutlandic dialects use a kind of Danish "the". On the vest coast of Jutland most locals tend to say: "A bil = the car", instead of "bilen". I guess it has something to do with contacts across the North Sea for centuries. (It was until only a couple of hundred years ago, much easier to sail anywhere here in DK than to go by road).
I should perhaps add that Jutes, residing mainly in north and western Jutland, were among the peoples invading England when the Romans left. Gradually the Jutes became Danes, - just in time for another invasion of Britain. (Better known as Vikings). So there has been a lot of very early cultural and lingual exchange.

I learned recently of another word from the show Time Team. They were digging out Bronce Age graves, which the archeologists called: "a kist/kiste". That's a stone lined grave with a big stone slab on top.
The funny thing is that the Danish word for coffin, is "kiste".
I wonder if "kiste" went out of use in England, to be substituted with a new French/Normannic word: coffin?

 

[polyesco]

thanks Muhler for the mini danish lesson

My respects for Mary for learning another language along with being in the spotlight of being cp.

 

[teia]

sailing away from the thread

indeed we did
But it is all so frightfully interesting!
Accents, history, dialects, difference in cultures, languages etc.
The little danish lesson from Muhler reminded me I should take up my teach-yourself Norwegian course again. As far as I remember car is bil in Norwegian too (will check the rest of it)
I enjoyed this thread very much and hope to find nice and interesting people as Sun Lion, Muhler and many others on other threads very soon!!!

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

Can someone please help? I am interested to know how to spell a certain Dansk ord that is in the documentary, Kongehuset Indefra...it is in the episode when Mary and Caroline are in the back of the car on their way to a women's conference or something and Mary is practising her speech and Mary comes to a difficult word - oo-oo-vah-na means perpetrator according to my subtitled version - I was just wondering if mig Danske venner can enlighten me as to the spelling and further meanings of this word...Mange tak

 

[Muhler]

Can someone please help? I am interested to know how to spell a certain Dansk ord that is in the documentary, Kongehuset Indefra...it is in the episode when Mary and Caroline are in the back of the car on their way to a women's conference or something and Mary is practising her speech and Mary comes to a difficult word - oo-oo-vah-na means perpetrator according to my subtitled version - I was just wondering if mig Danske venner can enlighten me as to the spelling and further meanings of this word...Mange tak

The word is: voldsudøvende. = (Someone) in the process committing violence.

The word is pretty hard to pronounce even for us natives!
The meaning is also pretty complicated to explain.

It should not be translated with perpetrator, as that is someone committing an illegal act of in this case violence and that would usually be translated to "(volds)forbryder" in Danish.

A "voldsudøver" is someone who commits acts of violence that depending on the culture or country may or may not be illegal or socially acceptable. Like a parent beating a child or a spouse beating his/her wife or girlfriend. - Or in many cases husband or boyfriend.

(I remember that episode clearly, because I've written about it before. I believe I posted it as an episode summary somewhere on the forum).

 

[AnnaNotherThing]

Thank you so much Muhler for your prompt reply...I knew you would come through for me...I was thinking it would be spelt something like uffatelig...so voldsudøvende is quite surprising...I am attempting to teach myself Danish using Jakob Martin Strid kids books and some Danish music but if words that look like voldsudøvende sound like oo-oo-veh-neh then I am in for a enormous challenge...Makes me appreciate what Mary and Marie and Henrik have had to do in marrying their respective Danish spouses...Sheesh!

 

[Muhler]

You are welcome.

However, had I not known about that episode I too would have believed the word you described was "uvenner" = litterally un-friends, i.e. former friends or friends who have had a major row.
And that would of course not be translated to English as perpetrator.

 

[nwinther]

A better word than "committing" would be "practicing" as in "practicing medicine".

"Udøver" is a more neutral word in Danish as you can "udøve" violence, first aid, art, fitness, etc.

"Commits" is more along the lines of "begå" also indicating a crime or some other deplorable act (i.e. a word with a non-neutral weight).

 

[Kataryn]

I learned recently of another word from the show Time Team. They were digging out Bronce Age graves, which the archeologists called: "a kist/kiste". That's a stone lined grave with a big stone slab on top.
The funny thing is that the Danish word for coffin, is "kiste".
I wonder if "kiste" went out of use in England, to be substituted with a new French/Normannic word: coffin?

In German a "Kiste" is a box made from wood. Or colloquial for "coffin", if you want to use it in a light, jokey mode. Like in "Wir landen alle mal in der Kiste" - we all land eventually in a wooden box. OTOH Kiste, too, means "bed", so the same sentence could mean: "we all will have sex one day". Well, beds used to resemble boxes, too (pre-IKEA, that is).

 

[Muhler]

A better word than "committing" would be "practicing" as in "practicing medicine".

"Udøver" is a more neutral word in Danish as you can "udøve" violence, first aid, art, fitness, etc.

"Commits" is more along the lines of "begå" also indicating a crime or some other deplorable act (i.e. a word with a non-neutral weight).

Yeah, I think you are right.

In German a "Kiste" is a box made from wood. Or colloquial for "coffin", if you want to use it in a light, jokey mode. Like in "Wir landen alle mal in der Kiste" - we all land eventually in a wooden box. OTOH Kiste, too, means "bed", so the same sentence could mean: "we all will have sex one day". Well, beds used to resemble boxes, too (pre-IKEA, that is).

Thanks for making me smile.
Just to make it even more confusing for Mary and other poor souls trying to learn Danish, a "skibskiste" means a (ships-)chest, a box generally used for travelling or storage.
I read Daniel Defoe's A Journal of the Plague Year some time back. Considering that the book was writting in the early 1700's I was utterly astonished to learn how many words I recogniced, that are used in modern German and Scandinavian but are now archaic in English

 

[MARG]

This is just a quick question. Does CP Mary speak French and if so, how well. I asked because before her marriage she was teaching English in France and married into a family that spoke French at home.

 

[Sun Lion]

This is just a quick question. Does CP Mary speak French and if so, how well. I asked because before her marriage she was teaching English in France and married into a family that spoke French at home.

MARG, my understanding is that Danish was the first foreign language Mary learnt - think she said so herself in an interview in the early days.

I believe Mary taught Business English in Paris.

There used to be a blog on the internet by an American guy who was in the same group being trained as Mary - he mentioned her in passing.

It was interesting to read how tough it was, as you were trained and assessed and either sank or swam - no time to play the tourist.

Lessons had to be prepared and presented.

Those with tertiary qualifications - in any field - where seen as having the ability to make a success of it as they had the necessary discipline to apply themselves.

I think out of the original group of people starting together - only small, about a dozen I think from memory - only this guy and Mary were left at the end.

You had to find your own students and support yourself, though the school had leads and contacts.

This blog disappeared from the internet some years ago - this is my memory of things.

The school was, I believe, at 40 rue Cambon.

Perhaps the Danish posters have more information about this time in Mary's life - I'm assuming any details know then would have been published in more detail in Denmark than here in Australia.

Interesting details from Muhler's translation of the new Frederik book, about Mary and her Oz friend Amber Petty leaving Paris together by car and taking a week to drive themselves to Copenhagen when this chapter came to a close.

 

[Muhler]

While Mary's life up to meeting Frederik and also while she still lived in Australia while dating Frederik is well-covered and well-known. Her life from moving to Europe and until they got engaged in 2003 is very little known.

Anyway, it seems pretty clear her time in Paris was not a happy time for her.

It is not my impression that she is particularly well versed in French. I base that on how she approached Danish. Like making the rookie mistake of trying to translate directly, instead of translating whole terms and sentences.
So my impression is that she know enough to get by in Paris. Like reading signs, order a cup of coffee, get on a trains and talk about the weather and so on. But she would not be able to keep up a longer conversation and certainly not a more technical conversation about a more advanced topic like business.
She would probably be able to read and write French to some extent but if she doesn't keep it up, that will largely have been forgotten by now.

She would IMO be lost in a conversation within the DRF, where they speak French, since all of them, except Mary, are fluent in French and able to keep up a conversation on a high level.

So, yes, Danish is in my estimation, the first language Mary has learned. - And that was through hard work, being immersed in the language and having native personal teachers around, not least Frederik. Not to mention sheer necessity.

 

[carlota]

This is just a quick question. Does CP Mary speak French and if so, how well. I asked because before her marriage she was teaching English in France and married into a family that spoke French at home.

in addition to the responses by other members, i recently heard mary speak in an event where she was awarding a french-speaking person an award. she ended her introduction in french, by saying something like 'thank you for all your work' in french. she definitely sounded english when pronouncing a few words, so i imagine she never properly learnt french and that danish was her first foreign language. i believe i posted the video in the 'royal languages' thread, as i do whenever i find videos of royals speaking in foreign languages, which is a topic of interest to me.

i am unsure how much the DRF speaks french now at home for mary to learn it / practice it, but i would imagine they generally revert to a language that they all feel comfortable in when together (such as english or danish).