Juan Carlos Paternity Claims

[Queen Astrid]

I have a question it may be a dumb one but here goes........does King Jaun Carlos have children out of wedlock or is this just rumours?

 

[Ennyllorac]

I have a question it may be a dumb one but here goes........does King Jaun Carlos have children out of wedlock or is this just rumours?

Though it is rumoured that he has "wandered", I have never heard of him having other children,

 

[Mascha]

A couple of years ago there was this woman from Paris who claimed she was his daughter. She also said that Maria Gabriela of Saboya (?) was her mother.I don't think they did a DNA test or anything like that so no one can be sure.If I remember correctly her name was La Ruell, or something like that..

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Spanish Court to Examine Paternity Claims Against Former Monarch / Sputnik International

 

[Marty91charmed]

What does this mean? That the might allow the 2 dna tests that were claim in the past?

 

[miramar]

The Supreme admits one of the paternity lawsuits against Juan Carlos I

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Spain court admits paternity suit against ex-king Juan Carlos

its a bit strange because the lady whose case was just admitted and the gentleman whose case was rejected are supposed to be half-brother/sister by a chance of 91%

 

[Bine221]

Does he still have immunity, as he is still King (whereas no longer the regning king)?
BYe Bine

 

[ROYAL NORWAY]

Yet another scandal for Juan Carlos, and I expect that there will be more of them.

 

[Duke of Marmalade]

Does he still have immunity, as he is still King (whereas no longer the regning king)?
BYe Bine

No, but I understand the surpreme court has to agree beforehand if a law suit can be filed against JC. In case of the woman the court agreed, in case of the man the court did not agree.

 

[lula]

Duke, on June a reporter spoke to the Belgian geneticist who had made those DNA testing, and accused them of manipulating the analyzes, and said they really were not brother and sister.

El autor de la prueba de ADN a los hijos del Rey desmonta su enga?o - ESD

The Court requires real evidence that there was any relationship between Juan Carlos and mothers (documents, photos, letters ...). Ingrid Sartiau mother went to a notary to pick all the details of her brief affair with Juan Carlos ... and apparently it is this notorial act, what could have done that they accept her complaint.

It really is a very complicated and bizarre story.

 

[Winnie]

For heaven sake, doesn't Queen Sofia have enough to put up with at this time that she has to have her husband's frequent adultery practices rubbed in her face? I would love to see that sweet good woman take a large well deserved vacation away from Spain with a close "un-royal" friend. A lovely holiday in Australia or Hawaii would do her wonders.

 

[Princess Xenia]

For heaven sake, doesn't Queen Sofia have enough to put up with at this time that she has to have her husband's frequent adultery practices rubbed in her face? I would love to see that sweet good woman take a large well deserved vacation away from Spain with a close "un-royal" friend. A lovely holiday in Australia or Hawaii would do her wonders.

Totally agree with you, Queen Sofía has endured enough.

I always thought that Duchess Fleur of Wurttemberg was his daughter, probably he wandered more.

 

[Marty91charmed]

If there are doubts on the dna the tests should be remake... And I think that his family has the right to know if those 2 people are his children.... (The man looks like a lot to him BTW)

 

[Sancia]

Duke, on June a reporter spoke to the Belgian geneticist who had made those DNA testing, and accused them of manipulating the analyzes, and said they really were not brother and sister.

El autor de la prueba de ADN a los hijos del Rey desmonta su enga?o - ESD

The Court requires real evidence that there was any relationship between Juan Carlos and mothers (documents, photos, letters ...). Ingrid Sartiau mother went to a notary to pick all the details of her brief affair with Juan Carlos ... and apparently it is this notorial act, what could have done that they accept her complaint.

It really is a very complicated and bizarre story.

I read somewhere the Spanish constitution is unclear about the succession rights of illegitimate children. If an elder illegitimate son can overtake a younger but legitimate son, could one of the clues of the Court decision be that they want to avoid a debate about the possible rights of the gentleman to claim the throne over Felipe?

 

[Winnie]

Oh well, if that is true and another has a claim to the throne, so be it. It would be 100% the prior king's fault. Fair is only a four letter word.

 

[An Ard Ri]

The blind younger sister of Juan Carlos,HRH Infanta Margarita was asked by reporters but said '' I cannot comment or say anything "

Hola

La infanta Margarita, sobre la demanda de paternidad de su hermano el Rey: 'Nos ha pillado de sorpresa'

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I read somewhere the Spanish constitution is unclear about the succession rights of illegitimate children. If an elder illegitimate son can overtake a younger but legitimate son, could one of the clues of the Court decision be that they want to avoid a debate about the possible rights of the gentleman to claim the throne over Felipe?

The succession is about the legitimate descendants of Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón, so there is no chance that persons born outside his legal marriage with Princess Sophia of Greece and Denmark have any right.

The fact that anyone who marries against the approval of the King and the Cortes is excluded from the succession, including any of his/her descendants (Art. 57.4 de la Constitución española) learns that the lawmaker has it all set up in the framework of a legal and approved marriage.

 

[zarat]

An article from daily mail about alleged illegitime daughter of king JC.
EXCLUSIVE - Three nights of passion in a Marbella hotel, a baby hidden from Franco's assassins and surgery to remove the 'Bourbon nose': Fairytale story of woman who claims to be Spanish King's lovechild | Daily Mail Online

 

[Tarlita]

I can't believe that in this day and age some people would make a claim when it can be so easily disclaimed by DNA testing.

 

[Winnie]

I can't believe that in this day and age some people would make a claim when it can be so easily disclaimed by DNA testing.

I agree with you on that statement. The trick would be to get a true DNA test from king without having it tampered with to show incorrect results. In his position, testing would certainly not be easy.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

I can't believe that in this day and age some people would make a claim when it can be so easily disclaimed by DNA testing.

The problem is that no one wants to participate in DNA tests, again, and again, and again.

"I am a daughter of Juan Carlos de Borbón!"

JC forced to participate in DNA testing.

"Angela Merkel is my secret mother!"

AM forced to participate in DNA testing.

Paris Hilton is really no Hilton at all but an illegitimate parasite if the Hilton fortune!

PH forced to participate in DNA testing.

Apart from the juridical, publicitary, financial and familial implications, alone to prevent a wave of trolls making the one claim after the other, it is wise that royals and other public persons are very cautious with engaging in DNA tests. For sure when these tests can be manipulated or selectively explained: "There is a 70% match between Mr X from Germany and Mrs Y from Portugal, which might possibly lead to a conclusion that they are siblings". Well, there can be a 70% match between me and the cleaning lady as well, who knows... After all we are all the same: a body, a two ears, one heart, two lungs, one liver, etc. etc...

When the Court is convinced that Ms Sartiau's story might have reasons to believe that Don Juan Carlos de Borbón is her natural father, then new possibilities open for the lady in question. It still remains difficult, see the story of Ms Boël in Belgium.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

There have been three claims on Don Juan Carlos de Borbón being a father out of wedlock:

By the Française Marie José de la Ruelle: the claim was that she would have been the fruit of a liaison between Don Juan Carlos de Borbón and Princess Maria Gabriella of Savoia. Investigations learned that her story was so inconsistent and ridiculous that it was denied by the French Justice.

By the Spaniard Albert Solà: the claim was that Don Juan Carlos de Borbón would have had a liaison with his mother María Bach Ramon while the Prince was stationed at a military base in Zaragoza. A DNA test with the Belgian Ingrid Sartiau claimed they were for 90% sure siblings, new tests learned that the earlier test was a set-up or a fraud and there was no relationship with Sartiau at all, the case was dismissed by Spanish Justice.

By the Belgian Ingrid Sartiau: the claim is made by her mother Liliane Sartiau. Then years ago she told her daughter that her father was Don Juan Carlos de Borbón. For years her mother "did not realize that he was the King". Now the lady tries to pursue her claim. The Spanish Supreme Court has accepted her request for an investigation and waits on a reaction from the former King. This is possible since Don Juan Carlos no longer enjoys inviolability as head-of-state.

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

Two days ago the Spanish Supreme Court has ruled that Ms Sartiau needs to deliver more backing for her claim that Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón is her father. It seems that the backing is a story told by Ms Sartiau's mother, which has been written by a notary. The Court wants to have more backing: pictures, letters, cards, gifts, etc. which are traceable to Don Juan Carlos and which give ground for furtherer investigation.

According to the declaration of Ms Sartiau's mother she would have had an affair with Don Juan Carlos in 1965. According to Ms Sartiau's mother she had no idea who the "very handsome young man" was. Only a few years ago Ms Sartiau's mother would have told her daughter she had an affair with "a Spanish Prince". The Belgian needs to deliver more materiaal to convince the Court that there is enough proof to declare Don Juan Carlos as the father (a DNA-test is not required by the way).

The stories are somewhat conflicting. I have read a version in which Ms Sartiau's mother was holidaying in Zaragoza and learned a handsome Spanish officer from the Royal Military Academy there. Another version is that Ms Sartiau's mother was working as a governess for the princely family De Mérode. The mother of Ms Sartiau would have met Prince Juan Carlos in France, in 1956. Ten years later, in Luxembourg, the two would have met again and nine months later Ms Sartiau was born. All the time Ms Sartiau's mother would not have known who Don Juan Carlos was (???? A governess from one of Belgiums most prestigious families, not knowing who he is, after all the media frenzy surrounding his marriage with Princess Sophia of Greece and Denmark ???)

To be continued.

 

[maria-olivia]

Ah !! The Love Stories of Belgian Ladies and future Kings.....

 

[COUNTESS]

Two days ago the Spanish Supreme Court has ruled that Ms Sartiau needs to deliver more backing for her claim that Don Juan Carlos de Borbón y Borbón is her father. It seems that the backing is a story told by Ms Sartiau's mother, which has been written by a notary. The Court wants to have more backing: pictures, letters, cards, gifts, etc. which are traceable to Don Juan Carlos and which give ground for furtherer investigation.

According to the declaration of Ms Sartiau's mother she would have had an affair with Don Juan Carlos in 1965. According to Ms Sartiau's mother she had no idea who the "very handsome young man" was. Only a few years ago Ms Sartiau's mother would have told her daughter she had an affair with "a Spanish Prince". The Belgian needs to deliver more materiaal to convince the Court that there is enough proof to declare Don Juan Carlos as the father (a DNA-test is not required by the way).

The stories are somewhat conflicting. I have read a version in which Ms Sartiau's mother was holidaying in Zaragoza and learned a handsome Spanish officer from the Royal Military Academy there. Another version is that Ms Sartiau's mother was working as a governess for the princely family De Mérode. The mother of Ms Sartiau would have met Prince Juan Carlos in France, in 1956. Ten years later, in Luxembourg, the two would have met again and nine months later Ms Sartiau was born. All the time Ms Sartiau's mother would not have known who Don Juan Carlos was (???? A governess from one of Belgiums most prestigious families, not knowing who he is, after all the media frenzy surrounding his marriage with Princess Sophia of Greece and Denmark ???)

To be continued.

In today's day and age, DNA testing and not these long convoluted stories should be done.

 

[royal rob]

In today's day and age, DNA testing and not these long convoluted stories should be done.

I agree the amount of money it cost going back forth with lawyers etc. just have the test simple


Sent from my iPhone using The Royals Community

 

[Duc_et_Pair]

The point is that every European citizen has the basic right on protection of the physical and moral integrity of the person (Article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights).

When someone steps forward, out of the blue, and claims that he/she is someone's natural child, then the Court of Justice has the obligation to investigate the claim seriously. Only when there are enough grounds to support a ruling to interfere the physical and/or moral integrity of an alleged parent, the Court will request a DNA-test. Such a test can not be enforced. Refusing a test may lead to an acknowledgement that the claimant indeed is a natural child, when the supporting circumstancial evidence gives enough ground for the Court to believe that there is a question of paternity indeed.

The French lady Marie-José de la Ruelle failed in giving a coherent backing story for her claim that Don Juan Carlos de Borbón and Princess Maria Gabriella di Savoia are her natural parents. Her case was already rejected by the Public Prosecutor.

The Spanish gentleman Alberto Solà backed his claim with a DNA test making clear that he was "for 90% sure" siblings with the Belgian lady Ingrid Sartiau, another claimant. So he was hooking his claim to another claim. It turned out that the DNA-test was a fraud and there was no relationship with Sartiau at all, the case was dismissed by Spanish Justice.

Remains the Belgian lady Ingrid Sartiau. Her claim is mainly backed by a declaration stated by her mother. The Court of Justice has requested more supporting material for her claim. What lies at table is not sufficient and/or convincing enough.

 

[scooter]

In today's day and age, DNA testing and not these long convoluted stories should be done.

The two claimants, who have two different mothers, have already taken a DNA test which confirmed that their father is the same man. Their mothers say JC. JC, let's have a cheek swab if you are confident that you did not have relations with the mothers in question. It's easy enough to shoot holes in it, IF you are not the father. The problem, of course, is he has always had, shall we say, a 'man about town' reputation in the media. If one were to know, for example, that one has only had relations with X number of people, it's easy to keep track of.

 

[COUNTESS]

The two claimants, who have two different mothers, have already taken a DNA test which confirmed that their father is the same man. Their mothers say JC. JC, let's have a cheek swab if you are confident that you did not have relations with the mothers in question. It's easy enough to shoot holes in it, IF you are not the father. The problem, of course, is he has always had, shall we say, a 'man about town' reputation in the media. If one were to know, for example, that one has only had relations with X number of people, it's easy to keep track of.

Well. I am sure if he were in no way, the father, he would have given a sample. Get's rid of the obvious frauds.