Henry VIII (1491-1547) and Wives

[Elspeth]

The stakes would have been awfully high if he hadn't survived, though.

 

[AnneBoleyn]

Anne Boleyn hasn´t come down in history as a very nice person, she was very ambitious, too sure of herself and demanding and haughty, and her treatment of some of the people of the court was downright cruel BUT I feel very sorry for her as she was, in my opinion, innocent of what she was accused of and was put to death for a crime she did not commit. .

True, Anne did make a lot of enemies at court on her rise and reign, but let us also remember the good things she done too:

• She gave $1500 pounds a year to the poor
• Sewed shirts for the poor
• She was also a generous patron of charity, distributing alms to poor relief and funds to educational foundations

In addition to this - I love the irony that what Henry wanted most of all was a son, a King to carry on his dynasty, yet he got Elizabeth - who was all that, but in a woman, and was Anne Boleyn's daughter.

 

[AnneBoleyn]

I heard the series is scrumptious, but not historically accurate.

It is scrumptious, but so wrong in so many places!!!

 

[Melania]

Hi guys, I just wanted to share an observation that I made. It seems that Henry was of the mindset that the grass is always greener on the other side. Every time he remarried, his new wife had something the previous one didn't. Let's take a look:

To begin with, Catherine of Aragon... she brought with her the dowry that Henry VII and VIII didn't want to give back.

Ann Boleyn- She had sin, was unobtainable, and offered a new hope.

Jane Seymour- She was submissive; Ann was not.

Ann of Cleves- She was of royal blood; Jane was not.

Catherine Howard- In Henry's mind, she was very physically attractive. She was very vibrant and passionate, something he didn't see in Ann of Cleves.

Catherine Parr- She had maturity; whereas, Catherine Howard was very young and immature.

I'm probably missing a lot of factors, but this is just a quick observation that could be wrong or could be right.

In my opinion, all of his wives at the time of marriage offered the hope of producing a male heir.

 

[Menarue]

Catherine Howard may have been very like Anne Boleyn to look at which may have been an attraction, he thought that Catherine was a very innocent young version of
Anne, he was very wrong but he couldn´t have known that until much later.
Poor silly Catherine was pushed into the lion´s den by her ambitious relatives. The physical likeness may have been there but Anne was a very well educated sophisticated young woman who, unfortunately for her, overestimated her power whereas Catherine was just a foolish, rather flighty young girl.

 

[Zonk]

You think that the Howard relatives would have learned with the death of Anne. Poor Catherine was out of her league from the get go.

What is really disturbing is that most (if not all) of these were used as pawns. Yes, perhaps they did get something out of it (or appeared to) but there is really no other way to look at it.

Catherine of Aragon - used by Spain
Anne Bolyen - those Howard relatives. She wanted to marry for love (Harry Percy) and they killed that.
Jane Seymour - save the son I can get another wife
Anne of Cleves - political alliance. Although she got the better deal. Beloved sister and all.
Catherine Howard - those Howard relatives again
Catherine Parr - marries old men what three times? Marries for love the last time...and he cheats on her

 

[Menarue]

Ambition is a terrible thing. Those poor Howard girls were used very badly.
There didn´t seem to be any feelings towards them at all, they were both betrayed by their family.
I wonder what would have happened if Anne Boleyn had married Percy? She may have turned out to be a much nicer person, I think she was terribly hurt when his father said she wasn´t good enough and by becoming Queen felt, perhaps, that she had had sweet revenge. That it all turned out so badly for her was another story.

 

[Russophile]

Catherine Parr - marries old men what three times? Marries for love the last time...and he cheats on her

And she DIES. That SOOO sucks!!

 

[Menarue]

Catherine Parr died of childbirth if I remember rightly, the cause of so many women dying in those days, I read in a book, that that was one of the main reasons young women entered convents, they were really scared.

 

[ysbel]

I read in a book awhile back that parents thought it kinder to their daughters to marry them to older men who had the experience to bring them into married life gently. The younger men were seen as a bit unseasoned and like young stallions which wouldn't have necessarily been a soothing thought for a young girl on her wedding night especially if she knew little about the birds and the bees.

I don't know if that's true.

There is a quite charming book though of a 40 something Italian nobleman who wrote a book of instructions on housekeeping for his teenage wife.

 

[georgiea]

There is a quite charming book though of a 40 something Italian nobleman who wrote a book of instructions on housekeeping for his teenage wife.

ysbel, if you have time what is the name of this book? Sounds like a good read and insight to that time period. Thanks.

I always thought that King Henry VIII's first wife, Catherine of Aragon was the strongest of all his Queens. I believe she lived a life as a true royal would under the terrible situation. And also I believe the whole six wives thing open up a lot of bad karma for King Henry and his three children.

 

[Sunnystar]

ysbel, if you have time what is the name of this book? Sounds like a good read and insight to that time period. Thanks.

Sounds to me like she's thinking of Leon Battista Alberti's The Book of the Family, which I read excerpts of in college. Quite an interesting read, then again, I rather enjoy Italian Renaissance literature.

 

[madeleine victoria]

I always thought that King Henry VIII's first wife, Catherine of Aragon was the strongest of all his Queens. I believe she lived a life as a true royal would under the terrible situation. And also I believe the whole six wives thing open up a lot of bad karma for King Henry and his three children.

I'm reading "The Constant Princess" by Philippa Gregory and thought that it was really good eventhough I'm in the first part of the book only. The book illustrates Catherine's early years as a princess before marrying Henry's brother. I always thought too that she was the strongest of Henry's queens. Too bad Henry was attracted to Anne Boleyn. If he didn't marry Anne, England would have been Catholic up until today. At least that was my observation....

 

[georgiea]

King Henry VIII's love for Queen Anne revealed. And a lanch of State Papers Online this Tuesday to let people read about the period. Online sounds like it is going to be an interesting site. Hope I can find it.

Henry VIII's love for Anne Boleyn revealed - Telegraph

I just noticed that I put King Henry VIII on the wrong topic of discussion sorry, hope you can move.

 

[QUEENECE29]

Royal Collection to Open Henry VIII: A 500th Anniversary Exhibition at Windsor Castle

Artdaily.org - The First Art Newspaper on the Net

 

[Menarue]

Henry was certainly love sick, Anne had him just where she wanted him until she gave in to him. The old story of the grass is always greener on the other side.
It gave her a feeling of great power and ultimately, well we all know what happened to poor Anne, I am sure that she went to her death truly puzzled to what had gone wrong.

 

[AnneBoleyn]

I have read somewhere (although we know that the executioner for Anne was delayed and hence her execution was delayed) that although we dont know anything of her birthdate, that she was executed on 19 May because it was apparently her birthday -

has anyone else come across this?

 

[Emeralds and Opals]

King Henry VIII's suit of armour from later in life.

Henry VIII's armour reveals the 'absolute monster' girth of the monarch | Mail Online

 

[Skydragon]

He's infamous for beheading two of his wives, but it has emerged that Henry VII had a much softer side.

Henry VIII reveals his softer side in never-before-seen gushing love letter to Anne Boleyn | Mail Online

 

[Kotroman]

Hmmmm... the title of this thread made me think. What do we mean when we say "Wives of Henry VIII"? Do you mean Katherine of Aragon, Anne Boleyn, Jane Seymour, Anne of Cleves, Katherine Howard and Katherine Parr (thus including three/four marriages that never existed in the eyes of law)? Or do you mean Katherine of Aragon, Jane Seymour and Katherine Parr (those recognized by the Roman Catholic Church)? OR do you mean only Jane Seymour and Katherine Parr? As you all know, in the eyes of the English law, Henry VIII was lawfully married only twice. So which women do you consider Henry VIII's rightful consorts?

 

[Menarue]

I consider all 6 as his wives, King Henry VIII did, and no one seemed to object in England, so legal or not, they were his wives and Queens of England. Mind you nobody in England would have objected at the time or the Tower would have beckoned.

 

[Kotroman]

Actually, Henry VIII recognized only Jane Seymour and Katherine Parr as his lawfully wedded wives. He proclaimed his other four marriages null and void - which means that the other four women were never his wives. Furthermore, a person who considered Katherine of Aragon to be Henry VIII's wife was more likely to end up in the Tower than the person who considered her second marriage null and void.

 

[Menarue]

Henry VIII declared what he wished and the people had to "believe" it or go to the tower. Luckily these days that doesn´t happen and he is dead and gone but if Catherine of Aragon had had a boy she would have been his legitimate wife for sure.

 

[Kotroman]

That's all true. However, it's not possible to consider both Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn to be Henry VIII's lawfully wedded wives. The English law doesn't recognize either one of them as Henry VIII's lawful wife, but you recognize both of them? How come? If Henry VIII's marriage to Katherine of Aragon wasn't null and void, then his marriage to Anne Boleyn was null and void because he married Anne while Katherine was very much alive Or, if one doesn't consider Henry VIII's marriage to Anne Boleyn to be null and void, then one has to consider his marriage to Katherine of Aragon to be null and void. Furthermore, if you believe that Henry consumated his marriage with Anne of Cleves and that she was his lawfully wedded wife, then Katherine Howard and Katherine Parr were never his wives because Anne of Cleves outlived both of them.

 

[Menarue]

That's all true. However, it's not possible to consider both Katherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn to be Henry VIII's lawfully wedded wives. The English law doesn't recognize either one of them as Henry VIII's lawful wife, but you recognize both of them? How come? If Henry VIII's marriage to Katherine of Aragon wasn't null and void, then his marriage to Anne Boleyn was null and void because he married Anne while Katherine was very much alive Or, if one doesn't consider Henry VIII's marriage to Anne Boleyn to be null and void, then one has to consider his marriage to Katherine of Aragon to be null and void. Furthermore, if you believe that Henry consumated his marriage with Anne of Cleves and that she was his lawfully wedded wife, then Katherine Howard and Katherine Parr were never his wives because Anne of Cleves outlived both of them.

Oh Kotroman you make things so complicated. He divorced his first wife, married his second wife, killed her (became an instantaneous widower) his next wife died in childbirth before he could get sick of her, his next wife was not to his liking so he divorced her, he then married a silly little flibbertygibbet who couldn´t behave so he, once again became an instantaneous widower and married his last wife Catherine Parr who was lucky enough to outlive him.

 

[Warren]

It's somewhat pointless to be tilting at windmills here.
It is accepted fact that Henry VIII had six wives and any argument to the contrary won't achieve anything productive.

 

[Kotroman]

Oh, I am not claiming that all the historians who say "six wives of Henry VIII" are wrong! I am just intrigued by the fact that Henry VIII's marital life can be seen from so many perspectives: perspective of the English law and the Church of England, perspective of the Roman Catholic Church, etc.

It is accepted fact that Henry VIII had six wives and any argument to the contrary won't achieve anything productive.

Aren't forums meant to be places for discussion? Anyway, discussions about this matter are certainly more productive than discussions about the new pink dress worn by Princess X.

 

[Al_bina]

Given my limted knowledge ... just a personal view on the situation...

If memory serve me right, Henri VIII married Catherine of Aragon in the Roman Catholic Church and divorced her in the newly minted Anglican Church. This fact cast a shadow over the legality of the marriage between Henri VIII and Anne Bolyen. It is worth noting that King in the question did have other qualms of a political and religious nature that were bothering him as well. From political stand point, Henri VIII had legitimate concerns about having a Heiress Presumptive because the last female ruler of England (i.e., Empress Matilda)proved inefficient. This resulted in a civil war. Henry VIII did not want yet another internal strife undermining England's not-so-strong position in the international arena, where the Vatican pulled strings. Thus, his desire to have a Heir Presumptive is understandable.
In my personal opinion, the marriage legality between Henri VIII and Anne Bolyen boils down to "Is it legally possible to marry in the church of one doctrine and divorce in the church of another doctrine?". Needless to mention, Catherine of Aragon never gave in to her husband's demands to grant a divorce or retire to a convent. Catherine of Aragon wanted her divorce case to be heard in Vatican, which made this union official and was reluctant to let Henri VIII marry a lady of his choice. The most intriguing thing for me is that Henri VIII never tried to get rid of Catherine by forcibly locking her in a convent or physically removing her from the picture (i.e., poison). He got rid of Anne Boleyn without big troubles.

 

[kimebear]

Henry risked enough by removing Catherine from court. She was a princess in her own right and the aunt of the Holy Roman Emperor who had vast armies at his disposal. She was also quite popular with the people. Anne's connections were not quite so grand, nor so potentially dangerous and many hated her. Thus it was much easier to be rid of her.

 

[Al_bina]

Does it mean that the situation for parties involved was awkward? Catherine of Aragon never considered the divorce issued by the Church of England as legal ... as far as I understand. She wanted her case to be heard in Vatican, which represented the church that blessed and legitimatise her marriage.