"End Game" by Omid Scobie - 2023

[akina21]

Not really, he’s never taken anything serious about being royal nor is he interested in his family history, he just enjoys the privileges of being royal (free money, staff to attend to you, among other things). He’s just been overly indulged by his late mother and coddled by his family into thinking he was equal to his brother.

Harry's main issue is that he's got an older brother and not a younger one.

 

[Alison H]

I don't think that Harry expected to be in the photo, rather my recollection was that Harry had a problem with a 4 generations photo being taken at all, presumably because it represented a higher tier of blood royals that he did not belong to. I don't recall if the following was reported or that it's my own conclusion, but Harry took offense at the photo because he thought that it was a passive-aggressive move to put him and Meghan in their .

There's a famous "four generations" photo of Queen Victoria and her three direct heirs, taken when the future Duke of Windsor was a baby. The one taken when George was a baby was meant to be the same idea. Only Harry could make that about him!

 

[TLLK]

There's a famous "four generations" photo of Queen Victoria and her three direct heirs, taken when the future Duke of Windsor was a baby. The one taken when George was a baby was meant to be the same idea. Only Harry could make that about him!

As I recall the most recent four generations photo taken in December 2019 and released in January 2020 was to celebrate the new decade. The one taken in 2016 was to celebrate QEII's 90th birthday.


Like you I don't understand why Harry appeared to have an issue with it as his ancestors had participated in one decades before.



https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/four-generations-royal-family-new-decade-a4326271.html

 

[Lee-Z]

Not really, he’s never taken anything serious about being royal nor is he interested in his family history, he just enjoys the privileges of being royal (free money, staff to attend to you, among other things). He’s just been overly indulged by his late mother and coddled by his family into thinking he was equal to his brother.

i'm thinking his parents did him a disservice not explaining that while equal (as in, not better or worse than his brother), that doesn't mean *the same*..

And if (because it's still a book by someone else, so it could still be made up or exaggarated) Harry did indeed behave the way described when the queen died, i'm gonna say, that for someone who's constantly thinking about his mother's death and how it impacted him, he has very little understanding of how someone else's mother dying impacts those children (iow, did he really not *get* that QEII was Charles' mother?)

 

[GondorHasNoPants]

There's a famous "four generations" photo of Queen Victoria and her three direct heirs, taken when the future Duke of Windsor was a baby. The one taken when George was a baby was meant to be the same idea. Only Harry could make that about him!

I was just thinking about this very photo. I would ask if Harry has ever seen it, but it was obvious from reading 'Spare' that he has never paid much attention to royal family history.

 

[Queen Claude]

There's a famous "four generations" photo of Queen Victoria and her three direct heirs, taken when the future Duke of Windsor was a baby. The one taken when George was a baby was meant to be the same idea. Only Harry could make that about him!

The one he took offense to was the one that was taking during the Christmas season in 2019 where George was mixing a pudding while William, Charles and The Queen looked on, and then a separate posed photo.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...s-pudding-with-queen-william-charles/11821898
https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/03/roya...elizabeth-prince-charles-duke-william-george/

Harry is implicitly admitting that he is paranoid/delusional if he really thought that. His inability to understand or accept the line of succession is mind-boggling for someone who grew up in a European royal family.

I think that it is interesting because Harry has indicated that he understood that he has a shelf life and felt pressure to make his mark before his expiration date,* this was reported in Valentine Low's book but it was also reported even before then and IIRC that was before Meghan.

Dare I say that I get his conundrum. I think that some royals are fine with being background and supporting players. But there are non-heir apparent royals who get a lot of attention due to their proximity to the monarch, along with other factors like youth, glamour and charisma, and are used by the institution because of the interest in them and then expected to graciously step aside when the interest in them diminishes. The royals that I think that this applied to, in addition to Harry prospectively, are Margaret, Anne and Andrew. Both Margaret and Andrew had struggles in their later years and it is not difficult for me to believe their struggles were in part due to their diminished status.

Anne is an exemplary royal and has been for years, but I won't rule out even Princess Anne struggling with her status changing.

Yes it is ridiculous for Harry to resent a 4 generations photo shoot, and while it is the ultimate champagne problem and I really disagree with actions and attitudes that Harry has displayed, I get that a royal would struggle with being a top tier royal, who has made a significant contribution to the institution's standing, to having his status diminish.

* IIRC he considered that his time would be up when George became an adult.

 

[Katiedidit]

I used to be a huge Prince Harry fan. I liked him more than his brother.
That was before he left the royal family and his immature, spoiled and entitled personality came out. How much of this is related to Meghans influence or has he always been so jealous and resentful of his brother? I think its more him than Meghan stirring the pot.

 

[miss whirley]

I used to be a huge Prince Harry fan. I liked him more than his brother.
That was before he left the royal family and his immature, spoiled and entitled personality came out. How much of this is related to Meghans influence or has he always been so jealous and resentful of his brother? I think its more him than Meghan stirring the pot.

I think he's always been this way. Royal biographers who talked to Cressida's friends (obviously sanctioned by Cressida) said she found her relationship with him frustrating. That he spent most of his time complaining about his father and his brother.

Even as a child when Diana was shown to run up to her children to hug them, she hugged William first. Then a jealous Harry lashed out, and kicked William in the leg to punish him for getting the first hug.

Unless Harry was top dog, or everyone's favorite, he was always going to have meltdowns and lash out (often using William as his bystander target). As much as his family loves (or loved?) him, it's got to be an extreme relief to no longer have to tiptoe around basic facts like "William is the future King, not you", knowing that even the smallest reminders will set him off.

 

[Katiedidit]

Sad situation.

 

[Curryong]

The one he took offense to was the one that was taking during the Christmas season in 2019 where George was mixing a pudding while William, Charles and The Queen looked on, and then a separate posed photo.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-12...s-pudding-with-queen-william-charles/11821898
https://www.tmz.com/2020/01/03/roya...elizabeth-prince-charles-duke-william-george/


I think that it is interesting because Harry has indicated that he understood that he has a shelf life and felt pressure to make his mark before his expiration date,* this was reported in Valentine Low's book but it was also reported even before then and IIRC that was before Meghan.

Dare I say that I get his conundrum. I think that some royals are fine with being background and supporting players. But there are non-heir apparent royals who get a lot of attention due to their proximity to the monarch, along with other factors like youth, glamour and charisma, and are used by the institution because of the interest in them and then expected to graciously step aside when the interest in them diminishes. The royals that I think that this applied to, in addition to Harry prospectively, are Margaret, Anne and Andrew. Both Margaret and Andrew had struggles in their later years and it is not difficult for me to believe their struggles were in part due to their diminished status.

Anne is an exemplary royal and has been for years, but I won't rule out even Princess Anne struggling with her status changing.

Yes it is ridiculous for Harry to resent a 4 generations photo shoot, and while it is the ultimate champagne problem and I really disagree with actions and attitudes that Harry has displayed, I get that a royal would struggle with being a top tier royal, who has made a significant contribution to the institution's standing, to having his status diminish.

* IIRC he considered that his time would be up when George became an adult.

I think this is an excellent summing up of the situation of spares and highlights some of the difficulties of their position. Knowing from birth that whatever you do, whatever you achieve as a member of the RF, however much you are loved by the public growing up or as an adult, you are always going to be just the spare, just the wingman or woman, to the (future) monarch must inevitably leave its mark on you as a person.

As well, in the second part of your life you know you will inevitably fade into the background as your nieces and nephews become the main source of attention, and you will become just a minor royal on the roster after a youth of being genuinely loved and admired by the public. That is something none of us commoners will ever experience for ourselves.

 

[PhillyMonarchist]

if they want a normal life renounce all the titles and spot in line then

 

[Asteria12]

At the end of the day, the Duke has to pull up his big boy pants and make his own way into the world, just like we commoners.

 

[Iluvbertie]

if they want a normal life renounce all the titles and spot in line then

Not something they can do.

It would take legislation to remove the peerage titles. George VI has already set the precedent that a 'son of a Sovereign' as Harry is now is always the 'son of a Sovereign' and thus always HRH The Prince xxxx when he told the BBC, in 1936, that he now abdicated brother would always be 'the son of a King'. The BBC were going to introduce the then future Duke of Windsor as Mr Edward Windsor but following George VI's intervention he was introduced as HRH The Prince Edward - that was on the day of the abdication itself.

Under the existing laws renunciation of a title has to take place within 12 months of 'inheriting' the title. There is no provision in that law for renouncing a newly created title, which it was for Harry. The title is then put 'in abeyance' until the peer dies and is then inherited in the normal way so even if Harry was able to 'renounce' it would still be Archie's when Harry dies.

Line of succession changes are even harder as that requires legislation in 15 countries and the six Australian states.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think this is an excellent summing up of the situation of spares and highlights some of the difficulties of their position. Knowing from birth that whatever you do, whatever you achieve as a member of the RF, however much you are loved by the public growing up or as an adult, you are always going to be just the spare, just the wingman or woman, to the (future) monarch must inevitably leave its mark on you as a person.

As well, in the second part of your life you know you will inevitably fade into the background as your nieces and nephews become the main source of attention, and you will become just a minor royal on the roster after a youth of being genuinely loved and admired by the public. That is something none of us commoners will ever experience for ourselves.

I think that is quite sad that somebody can only be happy if they are the centre of attention. Maybe Harry should look to the Duke of Kent in particular the comments he made on the documentary about the late Queen. He spoke about his role to serve. He is still doing his best to serve his next monarch.

 

[rominet09]

I think that is quite sad that somebody can only be happy if they are the centre of attention. Maybe Harry should look to the Duke of Kent in particular the comments he made on the documentary about the late Queen. He spoke about his role to serve. He is still doing his best to serve his next monarch.

Perfectly right and well said.

 

[Curryong]

The spares mentioned didn’t ask to be born into that position nor did they ask as children and teenagers to be treated in that way by the media or the public. They simply had to grow up with it all around them.

Did the Duke of Kent (who was another generation to Andrew and to Harry) ever have the full blaze of media, good and bad, on him in his youth? I would suggest not. Nor was he ever in the unique and sometimes painful position of being the Spare. He was far enough down the family totem pole, even as a boy, to not have all that thrust upon him. Prss Margaret did experience it.

 

[Queen Claude]

Harry has done a number of things I disagree with, but Harry is not the Duke of Kent, yes both Harry and the Duke of Kent are grandsons of a monarch, but Harry is the son of a monarch and brother of a future monarch. His peers are Anne, Andrew, Edward and the late Princess Margaret. To me the one that he has the most in common with is the late Princess Margaret due to both Harry and Margaret being children on a monarch and the only sibling, and same sex sibling at that, to the monarch / future monarch.

 

[Hallo girl]

The spares mentioned didn’t ask to be born into that position nor did they ask as children and teenagers to be treated in that way by the media or the public. They simply had to grow up with it all around them.

Did the Duke of Kent (who was another generation to Andrew and to Harry) ever have the full blaze of media, good and bad, on him in his youth? I would suggest not. Nor was he ever in the unique and sometimes painful position of being the Spare. He was far enough down the family totem pole, even as a boy, to not have all that thrust upon him. Prss Margaret did experience it.

I agree different times different media but as a young man before Elizabeth then Margaret married and had children he was not that far down the line nor the Gloucesters. But in both cases they got on with their roles, yes they took a back seat but still continue to serve. I think what Margaret , Andrew and Harry had in common as well as being spares well they were spoiled.

 

[Iluvbertie]

The Duke of Kent did have a lot of publicity as a boy and young man simply because there weren't other young royals around. Even being 'in the hospital' at Sandhurst made it into the Court Circular.

In the early years of the late Queen's reign there were four royals under 30 and of an age to be of interest to the media - Elizabeth, Margaret, Edward and Alexandra. The others were still at school or over 40. Philip was the only one over 30 and he was already married so no real interest in what he was doing other than when doing duties.

 

[Curryong]

And the heirs weren’t spoiled?
Even if the Spares were, the media attention they all received year after year in their youth certainly did not help. And it wasn’t all glowing under the spotlight. Margaret and her circle were regularly criticised by newspapers for going regularly to nightclubs in the 1950s to enjoy themselves as if it was something decadent. I can remember the articles. It didn’t stop them reporting on the clothes, who danced with who, who was paying particular attention to Margaret and she to him. And it was exactly the same whenever Harry was clubbing. Who would want that as a constant in their lives ?

And I’m not sure how spoiled Harry felt when he was left alone in the nursery when the QM requested that William alone go to see her.

 

[Hallo girl]

I think we are going off topic here so I will leave my comments where they are. It is Scobies book we should be discussing, I wouldn’t like to get the thread closed.

 

[KristehH]

Not a single person on this earth gets to choose which family or which position they are born into. That's purely luck of the draw. There are reasons to feel sympathy for the child Harry used to be, but 'because he's not going to be king' is not one, at least to me. There are advantages to being a 'spare' just as there are disadvantages. No one's life is perfect; everyone has to deal with difficulties and even tragedies.

Edited to add that I apologize if this is off-topic, and please remove if necessary.

 

[HRHHermione]

Let’s move on and keep the thread on topic and focused on “End Game,” please.

 

[Alison H]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...am-omid-scobie-new-book-endgame-royal-family/

The book apparently claims that Kate and Meghan were told to dress like Diana, which seems ridiculous. Why would the Royal Family want to recall Diana, who was so critical of them? There's a picture of Meghan wearing a green dress and Kate wearing a polka dot dress, with comments that Diana once wore similar dresses. Well, it's hardly unusual for someone to wear a green dress or a polka dot dress, is it?!

 

[Asteria12]

I'm trying to avoid the clickbait stories but did I just read that Endgame repeats that old chestnut about Charles requiring his toothpaste to be put on his toothbrush? He must really have struggled to find new material if that's what is in his book. Oh dear, Omid!

 

[Kaye1850]

I'm trying to avoid the clickbait stories but did I just read that Endgame repeats that old chestnut about Charles requiring his toothpaste to be put on his toothbrush? He must really have struggled to find new material if that's what is in his book. Oh dear, Omid!

Oh dear, Omid, indeed!! Especially if he uses the “one inch” descriptor - think how much toothpaste that actually is. Most dentists recommend using a pea-sized amount. Not much credibility there…

 

[SirGyamfi1]

I'm trying to avoid the clickbait stories but did I just read that Endgame repeats that old chestnut about Charles requiring his toothpaste to be put on his toothbrush? He must really have struggled to find new material if that's what is in his book. Oh dear, Omid!

Plus that’s old news and has been debunked anyways because Charles was injured at the time so how else was he supposed to brush his teeth? He never had credibility anyways from his tweets to his writing of ‘Finding Freedom’

 

[Hallo girl]

Oh dear, Omid, indeed!! Especially if he uses the “one inch” descriptor - think how much toothpaste that actually is. Most dentists recommend using a pea-sized amount. Not much credibility there…

That story went back years ago when he had broken his arm. Honestly it is just recycled . Of course a younger generation will possibly take it on board. It is all to do with making the royals appear out of touch.

 

[HRHHermione]

More extracts: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/...oachable-unlike-Diana-takes-dig-workload.html

All of this feels very much like Meghan (possibly Harry too but mostly Meghan’s) perspective on Kate and none of it seems terribly fair.

 

[A Tudor]

The Sussex’s mouthpiece is very Kate-obssessed one might say, I wonder why.