Double-engagement in the House of Habsburg: Christoph & Adelaide; Imre & Kathleen


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a new post in Luxarazzi blog says that Archduke Christoph and Adelaide will tie the knot this year on 29th December!
 
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:previous: Thank you, Shikha Pal. I am not at all surprised that they will marry in a pre-1962 Tridentine liturgy (a.k.a. the Latin Mass or extraordinary rite), as both the bride and the groom are very conservative and traditional.

Is there any news regarding whether Archduke Imre's cousin, Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume of Luxembourg, will attend the wedding in Washington this coming Saturday, September 8th, in light of the recent death of the Countess Philippe de Lannoy, mother of his fiancée Countess Stéphanie de Lannoy?
 
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At first I thought that Guillaume might make the trip to D.C. for his cousin's nuptials without Stephanie, but now it would not surprise me if he decided not to leave her. She seemed so desolate Friday.:sad:

Maybe the younger Lux children Sebastien and Alexandra can represent the family since they are already living and studying here.
 
Without out going into particulars (as advised for this thread) I consider GD Henri and GD Maria Teresa to be an ideal Catholic ruling couple. And I expect Guillaume and Stephanie will do the same. And yes, I agree that their attitude about their son Louis and Tessy was exemplary--except that I believe Louis should have his dynastic rights restored because the couple have been "workhorses" for the family and have provided the only grandchildren so far for Henri and Maria Teresa.
 
Well Katie Walker seems to be a very interesting young lady. While I don't agree with a majority of her beliefs, she & Imre look very happy and I cannot wait for the wedding and see pictures.
 
i wonder what the reasons behind the tridentine mass were. is it the type of mass selected by very conservative religious catholics? i have never heard about it... marie christine's wedding not long ago was a normal mass is i well remember, so i guess the idea of the tridentine mass comes more from the walker side than from imre.
 
4Pam said:
Well Katie Walker seems to be a very interesting young lady. While I don't agree with a majority of her beliefs, she & Imre look very happy and I cannot wait for the wedding and see pictures.
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I find her a bit repugnant, and really wish he was marrying someone who isn't involved in heavily divisive political lobbying, but what's done is done. Hopefully the pictures will be nice. I'm more interested in the next Hapsburg wedding.
 
carlota said:
i wonder what the reasons behind the tridentine mass were. is it the type of mass selected by very conservative religious catholics? i have never heard about it... marie christine's wedding not long ago was a normal mass is i well remember, so i guess the idea of the tridentine mass comes more from the walker side than from imre.
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To answer your question, Carlota: The Tridentine (Latin) Mass was in use everywhere from 1572 until 1969. Following the Second Vatican Council, in 1969 Pope Paul VI introduced the form of Mass in the vernacular that has been in use since then, and the Tridentine Mass fell into wide disuse for many years. However, the last decade has seen something of a resurgence in very conservative Roman Catholicism -- certainly in the United States and in some parts, but not most, of Europe. (Latin America is a very different story). In 2007 the current Pope, Benedict XVI, issued a document in which he re-instituted the Tridentine Mass as an "extraordinary form" for use in the Church. Not surprisingly, it tends to be favored by very traditional and conservative Roman Catholics.

Kathleen Walker is extremely conservative in her religious, social, and political views, so it is not surprising that she would choose the Tridentine Mass for her wedding. Quite aside from her conservatism, what I think bothers some people (I include myself) is that she casts judgment on others and advocates punishment for those who disagree with her. (I'm not sure whether she's really taken to heart the Gospel teaching "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"). In any case, it is possible to be very conservative without being judgmental, as exemplified by Grand Duke Henri and Grand Duchess Maria Teresa of Luxembourg, and by Archduke Imre's parents themselves. As for Archduke Imre, not only his family background but his life experiences -- he worked at Atlas, a right-wing think-tank in the U.S. -- seem to have made him very conservative as well, so it wouldn't surprise me if he, too, were keen to marry in a Tridentine Mass.

As someone else pointed out above (#127), in spite of my disagreement with their opinions and my strong distaste for the manner and tone in which Miss Walker expresses them, they do seem very happy together, and I wish them every joy in their married life.
 
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claypoint2 said:
As someone else pointed out above, in spite of my disagreement with their opinions and my strong distaste for the manner and tone in which Miss Walker expresses them, they do seem very happy together, and I wish them every joy in their married life.
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I admire this sentiment and wish I were naturally this gracious. I think perhaps I could be, if they weren't working here, in my own country, lobbying to take away rights that I believe are vital for myself and for all women.

I believe the best I can probably do is withdraw from discussion of these nuptials, and that's what I'm going to do. I look forward to Christoph and Adelaide though.
 
P.S. It's called the "Tridentine" Mass because it was first instituted after the Council of Trent -- "Tridentus" in Latin -- in the 1570's.
 
I was not of age at the time the Tridentine Mass was used in the Church, but I have attended several Masses out of sheer curiousity and I have to admit that even though it was a little confusing, the services are quite beautiful and elaborate.

I am sure the wedding will be beautiful.
 
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What rights that are 'vital for all women' is she trying to take away?


LaRae
 
Pranter said:
What rights that are 'vital for all women' is she trying to take away?


LaRae
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You're more than welcome to google her affiliations with certain groups in the U.S. and find out yourself, or contact me via private message.

I'm going to respect the mod's wishes that this thread not be turned into a long discussion about Ms. Walker's beliefs.
 
Ah so she's pro-life. Nice to see a Catholic who lives their faith.

LaRae
 
HRHHermione said:
I admire this sentiment and wish I were naturally this gracious. I think perhaps I could be, if they weren't working here, in my own country, lobbying to take away rights that I believe are vital for myself and for all women.

I believe the best I can probably do is withdraw from discussion of these nuptials, and that's what I'm going to do. I look forward to Christoph and Adelaide though.
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Oh, believe me, Hermione, I feel much the same! It's only that the very place where I think Kathleen Walker stumbles is in letting self-righteousness and judgment overshadow love and compassion for the suffering of others, and I must be very careful not to repeat this because, believe me, I am very capable of it. I was often such a rigid "know-it-all" in my youth; that feature has (hopefully) softened a bit now, in my middle age... so I think that I also have to cut them some slack!

Faith + real, lived experience have taught me that the answer lies in recognizing and celebrating love -- and choosing to act in it -- at every turn. But of course this recognition, celebration, and choice must be genuine. If they're not real, what's the point?

Imre and Kathleen seem truly joyful in recent photographs that I've seen of them together, and that joy feels holy to me. I do wish them continued happiness, and I pray that the love that they feel now in each other will take deep root, grow, and help them to love others generously and even extravagantly... as they have been loved. And that includes loving people whose true life experiences lead them to disagree with one's own views. They are still human beings, made in the image of God.
 
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Pranter said:
Ah so she's pro-life. Nice to see a Catholic who lives their faith.

LaRae
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Please read the earlier pages of this thread. We cannot get off topic (again). To summarize -- but, really, please go back and read the thread -- the widespread distaste for Miss Walker stems from many of her statements, including ones in which she defends the Spanish Inquisition and advocates loudly that Catholic politicians who are pro-choice should be denied Holy Communion. But enough of this. Let's get back to talking about the wedding, shall we?
 
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Here is a view of the exterior of St. Mary the Mother of God, the church where Archduke Imre of Austria and Miss Kathleen Walker will marry this Saturday. It was founded in 1845 by German immigrants to the United States and also has ties to the Austrian immigrant community. It is now located in the Chinatown district of Washington, D.C., and it maintains an active ministry to the neighborhood's population:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting
 
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Thanks for the church picture of Mary Mother of God church in Washington D.C., which is now in Chinatown but was built by German immigrants in the middle of the 19th century. It surely is not among the fanciest of churches which might have been used for an archducal wedding, but it is probably a parish where the Tridentine mass has regular acceptance. I can see a traffic jam on Saturday, unless there are only close family invited. This church was built before there were automobiles.
If you google this church's name you can see the interior, which is somewhat grander than the exterior.
It has two altars, one facing the people (as is presently used in Catholic churches) and the other facing away, which would be used in the Tridentine mass. The altar facing away--you can tell it's being used by the books open on it. The worshipers are all wearing head coverings, in the old style, mantillas mostly. They are kneeling for communion, again not a current style in most American Catholic churches. The altar is a wooden gilt-painted altar, typical of earlier Catholic altars in the last centuries in America.
Moderator, I am not discussing the beliefs of the worshipers here, just describing a church which offers a Tridentine mass along with the modern mass in the vernacular (English) and a Chinese mass.
 
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I wonder if there are any pictures of the inside....the outside looks gothic style. I'll see if I can find a website on the interior.

Saint Mary Mother of God - Home

Found a site...absolutely BEAUTIFUL altar...
 
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Why are they getting married in D.C. rather than in Luxembourg which would be appropriate for someone of his stature? Or did I miss something?
 
suztav said:
Why are they getting married in D.C. rather than in Luxembourg which would be appropriate for someone of his stature? Or did I miss something?
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I don't think that you missed anything. I suppose that they are marrying in DC because it is traditional to hold the wedding in a venue associated with the bride, and there is no reason to do otherwise in this case.

Archduke Imre is not officially part of the royal family of Luxembourg, so there would be no reason to hold it here. His mother is a princess of Luxembourg by birth, but his father -- who determines the family or "house" to which Imre belongs -- is a member of the deposed imperial & royal family of Austria. In short, Imre belongs to the House of Habsburg-Lorraine, not to the House of Nassau (which rules Luxembourg). In my observation, it is only when the groom is a pretty high-ranking member of a reigning royal house -- and the bride is not -- that a wedding takes place at his location rather than hers. Such will be the case when Hereditary Grand Duke Guillaume weds Countess Stephanie de Lannoy.

I believe that Kathleen Walker's parents live in Ohio, but she lives in DC. I don't know about you, but I can much more easily picture Princess/Archduchess Marie Astrid attending her son's wedding in Washington than in Ohio, no? To me, it makes sense.
 
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... Princess/Archduchess Marie Astrid in Ohio ... It would have been like travelling to an exotic country. It would be fair to say that Washington, D.C., seems like a city without soul.
 
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HRHHermione said:
I find her a bit repugnant, and really wish he was marrying someone who isn't involved in heavily divisive political lobbying, but what's done is done. Hopefully the pictures will be nice. I'm more interested in the next Hapsburg wedding.
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She is a very vocal young lady is all I can say. But I'm glad that she & Imre are happy together.
 
Noblesse oblige............. These marriages will be considered unequal? The American will never be able to call herself an Erzherzogin?
 
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Both marriages will be equal, and both Adelaide and Katie will become Archduchesses of Austria.
According to the current rules of the Habsburg Family, the only requirement for a marriage of an Archduke to be equal is that the bride is Christian, and both the fiancées of Christoph and Imre are.
 
:previous: So once Adelaide and Katie will get married will they be known as Archduchess Katie and Archduchess Adelaide or will they be known as Archduchess Imre and Archduchess Christoph?. Is an Archduke's marriage considered equal even if he marries a non catholic/non christian?
 
Do you think that Kathleen and Adelaide will borrow tiaras for their weddings? Their sister-in-law AD Marie Christine wore the small floral diamond tiara of Grand Duchess Maria Theresa.
 
Shikha Pal said:
:previous: So once Adelaide and Katie will get married will they be known as Archduchess Katie and Archduchess Adelaide or will they be known as Archduchess Imre and Archduchess Christoph?. Is an Archduke's marriage considered equal even if he marries a non catholic/non christian?
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Actually, Otto change the rules and it doesn't matter if an Achduc marry a noble girl or not. The only thing that matters is that she has to be a (practising) catholic. Which Katie clearly is ;)
Imre is really catholic, so is Christoph and Adelaide. I think European people just tend to be discreet about their positions. Americans are not, that's why you just know about Katies positions. You'll be surprised about Imres, Christophes and Adelaides. But what's important is that they love eachother right?
It would have been different if Guillaume or Felix would marry Katie. Or Amedeo or Joachim. But be realistic. Imre is not in line for the Luxemburg trone, neither that of the Habsburg, so let's them live their life, who cares?
I wish them both lot of happiness and joy.

PS: I saw them together, and clearly, they are in love. No, Katie is not an evil woman who just wanted to marry an Habsburg ;)
 
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