Crown Prince Hamzah relieved of his title: November 28, 2004

[tipper]

I mean the letter, don't think he's angry, he's upset and sad, he's too naive , so he had never been guessing what KA had in store for him,-
I'm asking again, will some1 help me understand, : why did KA give Hamzah that splendid wed reception, I watched it on TV, the couple was greeted by the crowd as the Crown Prince and the Crown Princess. Did KA and QR do it to tease QN and Hamzah, or to make ppl think KA has taken the decision just recently- 2nd question:
Were Hamzah and Hashim present at the siblings ' meeting just be4e KA appeared on JTV last Sunday, were they left out in the cold- finally, it's quite sure QN will speak out, she has nothing more to lose, now.....

KA is the bad guy in this situation,he is ! - I admired him alot, I thought he saw his siblings, half or full 1s,just as his own family,- so he's going to give Hamzah a higher position, plz, I beg of u, just spare me,- KH was so direct and straight, he was honest to P Hasan, it was clear that if P Hasan had named 1 of KH' sons as his CP, he would have stayed CP and he would be the current King, P Hasan was so honest, I want to admit it, he was not to tease his brother telling him just a name, then wait for KH's imminent death and name his own son, instead- I'm starting to appreciate P Hassan's honesty, KA was so smart, he obliged to his father's wish, he waited for 5 years, once he was firm on the saddle, he kicked Hamzah in the .....

 

[abir]

PH lost the title of CP but maybe he will have better and happy life than KA, QR and Muna. He may will have great success in his life and great achievements. Many people could achieve that without being royal. The father of QN is an example.
I hope all the best to PH.

 

[tipper]

Shelley, I came across Jordanian Constitution ,not long ago,: the succession must pass from father to son, not from brother to brother, but ,of course, KH did not care so much for the Constitution, just like KA does not, of course- If you think it over, anyway, Noor Hamzah's grandfather tried to steal the throne from his brother Talal, then Hussein took the throne from his own father, well, we know he was severly ill, - I read that Parliament should have their say in this- I mean stripping Hamzah of his title, but of course, it will agree with the King. Well, I think Prince Hassan could oblige and lie to his brother, KH wanted a meeting ,be4e leaving to Mayo Clinic, with Hassan and his 5 sons, but Hassan would not agree to such a meeting, I respect him, now, as he was not able to lie to Hussein and tell him he was to choose 1 of KH' sons, as he knew all the time he wanted P Rashid as his CP, I can c it only now as KA did not act this way, he agreed to whatever his father asked him as he wanted to be King so bad, and his wife wanted to be Queen, no matter all they said in the interviews soon after Jan 20, 1999.

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

WOw I cant saeem to follow up with all these posts!
i feel like what im gonna say will sound "outdated"...lol sorry :">
I just had a comment about Hamzah's reply to the king...

I think it was a smart reply,He started with a verse of Qora'an and ended with one,which is smthin so smart to do,if u analyze them i think in some way he ment to stop all the speculations about the real reason behind relieving him from the title and just show people that as a true muslim his duty is to obey those charged with authority , which in this case is his majesty the king. everyone was amazed by his reply, it was so "Hamzah". here are the verses and the full response follows...
​

قال تعالى "يا أيها اللذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله و أطيعوا الرسول و أولي الأمر منكم"صدق الله العظيم​

​

قال تعالى /وما أوتيتم من شيء فمتاع الحياة الدنيا وزينتها وما
عندالله خير وابقى/.. صدق الله العظيم
​

The Almighty Allah says: "Ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you." An-Nisa (The Women)

"The (material) things which ye are given are but the conveniences of this life and the glitter thereof; but that which is with Allah is better and more enduring." Al Qasas (The Narration)

 

[tipper]

WOw I cant saeem to follow up with all these posts!
i feel like what im gonna say will sound "outdated"...lol sorry :">
I just had a comment about Hamzah's reply to the king...

I think it was a smart reply,He started with a verse of Qora'an and ended with one,which is smthin so smart to do,if u analyze them i think in some way he ment to stop all the speculations about the real reason behind relieving him from the title and just show people that as a true muslim his duty is to obey those charged with authority , which in this case is his majesty the king. everyone was amazed by his reply, it was so "Hamzah". here are the verses and the full response follows...​

قال تعالى "يا أيها اللذين آمنوا أطيعوا الله و أطيعوا الرسول و أولي الأمر منكم"صدق الله العظيم​

قال تعالى /وما أوتيتم من شيء فمتاع الحياة الدنيا وزينتها وما ​

عندالله خير وابقى/.. صدق الله العظيم

The Almighty Allah says: "Ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you." An-Nisa (The Women)

"The (material) things which ye are given are but the conveniences of this life and the glitter thereof; but that which is with Allah is better and more enduring." Al Qasas (The Narration)

Nana, it reads- having devoted myself ,as our great late father taught us, to standing by you and supporting you- Hamzah sounds bitter as it's normal for him to be, he's saying all those years he was faithful and devoted to his King have been a waste, I now think it was he himself who wrote the letter, short and bitter, how sad he signed by- HRH Prince Hamzah-.... -btw, yes, that actress from Egypt is said, I found it on the Net, to be QN's cousin-

 

[T-R-O-U-B-L-E]

I mean the letter, don't think he's angry, he's upset and sad, he's too naive , so he had never been guessing what KA had in store for him,-
I'm asking again, will some1 help me understand, : why did KA give Hamzah that splendid wed reception, I watched it on TV, the couple was greeted by the crowd as the Crown Prince and the Crown Princess. Did KA and QR do it to tease QN and Hamzah, or to make ppl think KA has taken the decision just recently- 2nd question:
Were Hamzah and Hashim present at the siblings ' meeting just be4e KA appeared on JTV last Sunday, were they left out in the cold- finally, it's quite sure QN will speak out, she has nothing more to lose, now.....

I dunno Carla,but i dun think hamzah is naive...what can he do about what happend? King Abdullah is the king and he's the leader and his orders should be obeyed thats a FACT,even though everyone thinks what happend to hamzah was horrible,Jordanians are in a state of shock but can't talk about it (yes i have a big mouth,Im a bad Jordanian,lol),so Hamzah cudn't have done anything but obey,not cuz he's weak and he gave up on what u might see as his right,but cuz if in some way he didn't "accpet" what happend and tried to do smthing against such a decision,that means Jordan will be in trouble,it's a "country's issue" not just a "succession issue",if u know what i mean,If God-forbidden a conflict rose bw the two bros,which will lead to wider conflict Jordan will vanish and those who want that wud seek to take control and this is for sure not what any of the JRF wud want...I think Hamzah's love to his country will make him think less of what happend,but maybe the timing was what shook us all!

As for his wedding,He was Crown prince back then and such a wedding reception was more like a must.

about the response letter,I had a feeling it was Hamzah who wrote it,or at least it had some of his way and ideas in it,using verses of Qoraan was so typically him,and u can see that in his official website "my success is only in God" "w ma tawfiki ella bellah"...

Nana, it reads- having devoted myself ,as our great late father taught us, to standing by you and supporting you- Hamzah sounds bitter as it's normal for him to be, he's saying all those years he was faithful and devoted to his King have been a waste, I now think it was he himself who wrote the letter, short and bitter, how sad he signed by- HRH Prince Hamzah-.... -btw, yes, that actress from Egypt is said, I found it on the Net, to be QN's cousin-

I know Carla,I feel as bad as u feel,i cried all night after i heard the news I even got sick,i didn't cry cuz he lost the title of CP,but just cuz i thought the most beautiful 5 years of his life were "gone in the wind",even if he was in love with Princess Noor , maybe it was just too early for him to get married,they cud have waited a year or 2,but i think cuz of his title they had to get married sooner. I might be soo wrong though

I know Carla,I feel as bad as u feel,i cried all night after i heard the news I even got sick,i didn't cry cuz he lost the title of CP,but just cuz i thought the most beautiful 5 years of his life were "gone in the wind",even if he was in love with Princess Noor , maybe it was just too early for him to get married,they cud have waited a year or 2,but i think cuz of his title they had to get married sooner. I might be soo wrong though

just to make smthing clear,my reply has nothing to do with the way i felt/feel for Prince Hamzah

 

[Humera]

Its all very well to feel sorry for Hamzah and Queen Noor.
But some of you need to see beyond your partiality. Prince Hamzah was never meant to be King. He is not the eldest son, Abdullah is.
If the rule of law isnt followed in something as important as the successsion of a monarchy, then what is the point? we might as well have total anarchy.
Eldest sons (in some cases daughters) inherit monarchies around the world. Why should Jordan be any different just because some people have their own "favourite" candidates?

 

[sommone]

Its all very well to feel sorry for Hamzah and Queen Noor.
But some of you need to see beyond your partiality. Prince Hamzah was never meant to be King. He is not the eldest son, Abdullah is.
If the rule of law isnt followed in something as important as the successsion of a monarchy, then what is the point? we might as well have total anarchy.
Eldest sons (in some cases daughters) inherit monarchies around the world. Why should Jordan be any different just because some people have their own "favourite" candidates?

Well King Hussein definitely had a "favorite", and it was Hamza. I think that when he asked that Hamza be named cp he did it with hopes that Hamza would be King someday. However, the confusion begins when you ignore your own succession laws, and request that people be appointed positions that aren't theirs to have in the first place. I often wonder why KH didn't think that maybe someday abdullah wouldn't want his own son named as cp instead of Hamza? Anyway, it doesn't matter because there isn't anything Hamza can do about the situation but move on with his life.

 

[Banadoora]

I didn't make much of Prince Hamzah's reply. He quoted the Qur'an and said that he'll always be dutiful towards his brother and his country , which is to be expected of him. He didn't show any reason that this would have been prompted by him which basically means that Abdullah made the decision to oust him from his position.

I'd originally thought that Hamzah could have wanted out of the job but after reading his letter, I think it was a decision made solely by Abdullah.

I don't know how long the seat of the Crown Prince can remain empty in Jordan. I doubt that Abdullah would leave it that way for long.

This is such a dissapointment because I truly beilieve that he would've made a really good king in Jordan.

 

[Humera]

Well King Hussein definitely had a "favorite", and it was Hamza. I think that when he asked that Hamza be named cp he did it with hopes that Hamza would be King someday. However, the confusion begins when you ignore your own succession laws, and request that people be appointed positions that aren't theirs to have in the first place. I often wonder why KH didn't think that maybe someday abdullah wouldn't want his own son named as cp instead of Hamza? Anyway, it doesn't matter because there isn't anything Hamza can do about the situation but move on with his life.

I think deep down, King Hussein must've known that Abdullah would eventually replace Hamzah with his own son. King Hussein did the same thing himself.
I think its dangerous to be influenced by favouritism when you're talking about the governing of a country. It is crucial in matters like this to stick to the rules.
Ofcourse, if this was the middle ages, we would've seen a civil war emerge out of this, with the two rivals raising armies to claim the crown for themselves. But this is the twenty-first century. Prince Hamzah is still very young and he'll get over this mess. He has a new wife and hopefully he'll be too busy with his own family to waste time over dynastic squabbles.

 

[shelley]

Well, I think Prince Hassan could oblige and lie to his brother, KH wanted a meeting ,be4e leaving to Mayo Clinic, with Hassan and his 5 sons, but Hassan would not agree to such a meeting, I respect him, now, as he was not able to lie to Hussein and tell him he was to choose 1 of KH' sons, as he knew all the time he wanted P Rashid as his CP,.

Hi Tipper. I agree with a lot of what you have said, but I still insist that it was not a case of whether or not Prince Hassan wanted his son Rashid to succeed him(although it would be natural to assume so, ) but that even if he had had the meeting that everyone thinks was asked for and didn't happen, how could Prince Hassan agree to something the constitution does not allow for ? As you say, it says in the consitution that is in operation now, father to son. If Prince Hassan had become king it would have meant Hassan to Rashid. No scheming or coniving - just following the constitution. That is why I hold King Hussein very responsible for not thinking it all through properly.

There seem many tears being shed for Prince Hamzah 'wasting' five years working hard etc. He is luckier than Prince Hassan, who worked for 34 years and then had to remake a life at the age of 51, after being demonized. It is much easier to be 24 and still have many young years ahead of you. Prince Hassan literally gave Jordan the best years of his life and was kicked in the teeth as thanks. And he too could have made waves but I am sure chose not too because of loyalty to his country and his people, who would inevitably be the loosers in any taking of sides and fighting within the royal family.

 

[Humera]

Hi Tipper. I agree with a lot of what you have said, but I still insist that it was not a case of whether or not Prince Hassan wanted his son Rashid to succeed him(although it would be natural to assume so, but that even if he had had the meeting that everyone thinks was asked for and didn't happen, how could he agree to something the constitution does not allow for ? As you say, it says in the consitution that is in operation now, father to son. If Prince Hassan had become king it would have meant Hassan to Rashid. No scheming or coniving - just following the constitution. That is why I hold King Hussein very responsible for not thinking it all through properly.

There seem many tears being shed for Prince Hamzah 'wasting' five years working hard etc. He is luckier than Prince Hassan, who worked for 34 years and then had to remake a life at the age of 51, after being demonized. It is much easier to be 24 and still have many young years ahead of you. Prince Hassan literally gave Jordan the best years of his life and was kicked in the teeth as thanks.

exactly. I agree completely.
Let the constitution be followed.
As for Prince Hamzah, its better for him to know his fate now when he's young. Atleast this way he can plan his future without any uncertainty.

 

[shelley]

.
As for Prince Hamzah, its better for him to know his fate now when he's young. Atleast this way he can plan his future without any uncertainty.

Absolutely my point. Thanks Humera

 

[maryshawn]

Today, I received several notices stating he had been deposed from his position as Crown Prince by King Abdullah. They looked accurate. Is this true? Wow, 5 years and KA forgets the promise he made to his "beloved father." Like a 10 year old, his son, is ready to be Crown Prince????? This guy, KA and his scheming wife are bigger jerks than I thought. Read Hamzah's response; it was as expected: dutiful, accepting. I would venture a guess, however, Queen Noor has some thoughts on the subject herself. If anyone has more information, it would be interesting to hear. Thanks!


I have been trying to think this unexpected mess out logically. I have learned a lot from all of your postings. Thank you.

1. King Hussein should have thought this out better, yes, but he was sick. Prior to that, He was very blessed to have a trusted successor....and, my goodness, none of us want to contemplate our passing. So he put aside the inevitable--inevitable if he was planning to replace the good Hassan. I always thought his letter to Hassan odd and nonsensical in parts but thought the lymphoma had spread to his brain unfortunately by then. Also, he didn't particularly want the throne at age 18 but his father was so ill with schizophrenia he was incapable of ruling any longer. Even Queen Zein, his mother, admitted that. And those were turbulent times indeed. So he rose to the challenge and learned on the job, as it were. Doesn't always mean he learned to think things through and this is proof of that. (I hate to say this as I loved and admired Hussein very much because he had a profound sense of humanity).

2. I have always thought KA weak, QR power-mad and, while I hoped Hamzah would at least make it till KA's son turned 18, I had a sick feeling in my gut that Hamzah would never be King. So now Jordan is going to be run by Louis Vuitton? Lovely. I'm sure the people are thrilled (NOT). The timing is interesting. People have asked why the lovely wedding for the Crown Prince? Well it was a charade, handled in a dignified manner by Hamzah--'tho didn't care for how QN seemed to be treated. And, let's face it: It gave Rania (and here I'm being snotty and don't care) a lovely reason to buy a new outfit or two and pose for even more photos of herself! I think one thing is clear: Well, it's one thing I can think of. She got her amnio results and child 4 is a son. They've got their heir and a spare. Made Hamzah even more superfluous.

3. This is jealousy--pure and simple. KA's posting should be a model for unreasonable, irrationale firings around the world. It makes no sense and--I will be kind--is pure nonesense. I have re-read it five times and it still makes no sense in its rationale. Note to King: Hire a speechwriter; pray for a conscience.

4. The wording about "appointing you CP despite I have older siblings....." (and I am giving the gist as I can't bear to look at the stupid release again), is he listening to Muna as well as Her Royal Couture-ness? Will his brother (who I HAVE heard good things about by the way and has no quarrel with Noor....pardon, but I'm drawing a blank on his name but he contributed to Noor's book and has a warm rapport with her) be 2nd in command till his 10 year old reaches puberty?

5. My respect for KA and QR is nil. My regard for Hassan and Sarvath has soared. I had altered my views and been more positive--yes, yes, I bought into that rumor spreading, redecorating nonesense. Guilty as charged but now I am reformed--but now I really have tremendous regard for him (I'm sorry; I think Sarvath is an intellectual, kind and worthy of our respect but unfortunately know so little of her. I will correct that error! I want to know more about the best people in Jordan and less of the gucci-toter, self-serving, liars. Let's face it, constitution or no, KA promised his "beloved father" Hamzah would be Crown Prince. He is now guilty of deception.

6. Finally, OK, KH expressed great love for Hamzah. He said he "saw himself in Hamzah." This wouldn't make siblings feel great love for Hamzah. Through no fault of his own, Hamzah was set up--albeit with love--by his father to bear their resentment. I don't think KH would return from the grave to reinstate Hamzah as CP; he would change the constitution and make Hamzah King. I don't think we would be seeing Hamzah and his lovely wife constructing mansions amidst poverty. Nor does his wife strike me as a "can I see myself in the mirror and the center of attention at all times" type. I thought Hamzah like Hassan: centered, focused on the people of Jordan, fair and empathetic. In that way, perhaps, Hamzah was better than his father who lived a life guaranteed to leave heartache, furor and in-fighting in his wake.

7. Finally, finally.....I promise for now at least. Queen Zein was Queen while Queens Alia and Noor were Queens. That title was given to her by her husband. It cannot be taken away. If he really wants to look petty, KA would go after that......people would really wonder about HIS sanity. What he did was far craftier. Noor will really stay away from Jordan now. There will be no two Queens in the country; it'll be Rania in Jordan and Noor as expatriate Queen in US. So, mission accomplished. It's a pity Noor's book has been written and her book tour is over. I wish she would speak out but she likely won't as Hamzah wouldn't want it and it would look like "mother" is running her son's life--a son who is old enough and has shown maturity in his response. Do I think she will ever pose in another "friendly family" photo with KA and QR? No. But I am sure she is disappointed, angry and frustrated. I wouldn't count her out completely though; she is smart, savvy and probably did help her son craft his response. Her background is urban planning AND PR. She knows how to manipulate media and public emotion as well as, if not better, than KA and QR. From afar, she could engineer a good campaign anti KA/QR. Posing for example in awhile, where are these new responsibilities? Diseccting the announcement wondering aloud about the particulars? Engaging Hamzah in worthy causes and promoting he and his wife's simplicity.....contrasting with KA and QR's extravagance.

It has been said the JRF are most at risk for being overthrown as a monarchy. Well, in my humble opinion, they now have at the helm, the two people most likely to make that a very real possibility. This couple cannot control their impulses and extravagance; they clearly do not know how to read their own people; and KH is still loved by many--many who will feel strongly about KA's decision to disregard his promise to his father. After all, if KA cannot be counted on to live upto his promises to his father, who can trust any of his promises and judgement?

 

[MoonlightRhapsody]

I had read somewhere that technically, there is a crown prince, even if by default. Abdullah's son is immediately the unofficial crown prince and is the heir should his father die.

 

[Balqis]

There seem many tears being shed for Prince Hamzah 'wasting' five years working hard etc. He is luckier than Prince Hassan, who worked for 34 years and then had to remake a life at the age of 51, after being demonized. It is much easier to be 24 and still have many young years ahead of you. Prince Hassan literally gave Jordan the best years of his life and was kicked in the teeth as thanks.

Hassan, the victim - again???

No disrespect to the Prince, but this is bigger than his personal feelings and I am sure he knows that very well. It's politics, and mixing family with politics is the worst thing. King Abdullah is only correcting his late father's mistakes in the succession fiasco, so that everyone can be clear that the rules of succession must be followed like in any other country. We all knew this would happen sooner or later.

Shelley, it's admirable the respect and admiration you have for Prince Hassan, but going on about his "terrible fate" is serving what purpose exactly? To set the record straight? Well you have, his and his wife's side has been explored here on this forum broadly, but at the expense of the current King and Queen, who didn't decide his "fate" mind you. Because the impression left with labelling Hassan the victim is that someone must pay, someone must be responsible for his "misfortune". I think it's sad, because at the end of the day the family is behind Abdullah including and expecially Hassan. That's how the Hashemites are.

And he too could have made waves but I am sure chose not too because of loyalty to his country and his people, who would inevitably be the loosers in any taking of sides and fighting within the royal family.

Amen!

Today, I received several notices stating he had been deposed from his position as Crown Prince by King Abdullah. They looked accurate. Is this true? Wow, 5 years and KA forgets the promise he made to his "beloved father." Like a 10 year old, his son, is ready to be Crown Prince????? This guy, KA and his scheming wife are bigger jerks than I thought. Read Hamzah's response; it was as expected: dutiful, accepting. I would venture a guess, however, Queen Noor has some thoughts on the subject herself. If anyone has more information, it would be interesting to hear. Thanks!

Jerks??????????

 

[Angie]

Some of you would make great spokes persons for this family!

Hassan, the victim - again???

Shelley, it's admirable the respect and admiration you have for Prince Hassan, but going on about his "terrible fate" is serving what purpose exactly? To set the record straight? Well you have, his and his wife's side has been explored here on this forum broadly, but at the expense of the current King and Queen, who didn't decide his "fate" mind you. Because the impression left with labelling Hassan the victim is that someone must pay, someone must be responsible for his "misfortune". I think it's sad, because at the end of the day the family is behind Abdullah including and expecially Hassan. That's how the Hashemites are.


Amen!

I think your reading too much into it.

 

[Humera]

Wow..
Im still surprised at how many people wanted Hamzah to be King.
I like him too and as much as Im disappointed in Abdullah for handling all of this so badly, he's only correcting his father's mistake, like Balqis said, by following the rules of succession.

 

[Balqis]

Wow..
Im still surprised at how many people wanted Hamzah to be King.
I like him too and as much as Im disappointed in Abdullah for handling all of this so badly, he's only correcting his father's mistake, like Balqis said, by following the rules of succession.

Thanks Humera. I truly hope the democratization of Jordan happens fairly soon, in the next decade or so. To mix family and politics, as I've said above is terrible. There's always someone painted as the bad guy and it reflects badly on the whole family. Royalty is perhaps better off being above politics. I hope the reaction to the recent news about Hamzah makes people at the palace take note.

 

[maryshawn]

Jerky in their actions and not just this one.....I was very upset when KA, QR and their family was targeted for assasination by I believe al Quaeda. I don't buy the annoucement from KA. I think there is pettiness going on which is beneath them and all concerned. I think there is a lot more to the story and it smacks of things that are not admirable, honest nor in the best interest of anyone at this time. I don't like deception. I rethought it out and wrote a more comprehensive response. I am shocked and with all that is going on in the world right now, this seems neither the time or place for the decision. I think KA's announcement makes no sense. If that makes me a jerk instead, I will step up to the plate. I believe in keeping your word and if you can't, say so at the time. How do we know KH didn't ask KA to work to change constitution to permit Hamzah to succeed him? I believe in honesty, empathy and the simple fact leaders are supposed to be role models in their conduct. I believe in supporting worthy causes--and I put my money where my mouth is in this case by contributing annually to KHF and QNF. I find it sad that my donations to the people of Jordan don't equal the amount spent by QR on a purse. (her own words when asked favorite gift: a Louis Vuitton bag from her husband; not a "gift" honoring her by Jordanian children or the people. Seems superficial. Quote from "Vanity Fair" 2004)I don't call KA/QR evil or villianous but I don't think this seems right, kind, explicable nor honorable. My opinion.

Interesting how this will play out. Queen Zein guided KH for some years after he became King. I believe she even chose his first wife. If Abdullah---God forbid--was incapacitated in some way, would young Prince Hussein be "guided" by his mother too? IF he is CP of course. I wonder how Queen Rania would feel about that responsibility? Just thinking aloud.

 

[Balqis]

Jerky in their actions and not just this one.....I was very upset when KA, QR and their family was targeted for assasination by I believe al Quaeda. I don't buy the annoucement from KA. I think there is pettiness going on which is beneath them and all concerned. I think there is a lot more to the story and it smacks of things that are not admirable, honest nor in the best interest of anyone at this time. I don't like deception. I rethought it out and wrote a more comprehensive response. I am shocked and with all that is going on in the world right now, this seems neither the time or place for the decision. I think KA's announcement makes no sense. If that makes me a jerk instead, I will step up to the plate. I believe in keeping your word and if you can't, say so at the time. How do we know KH didn't ask KA to work to change constitution to permit Hamzah to succeed him? I believe in honesty, empathy and the simple fact leaders are supposed to be role models in their conduct. I believe in supporting worthy causes--and I put my money where my mouth is in this case by contributing annually to KHF and QNF. I find it sad that my donations to the people of Jordan don't equal the amount spent by QR on a purse. (her own words when asked favorite gift: a Louis Vuitton bag from her husband; not a "gift" honoring her by Jordanian children or the people. Seems superficial. Quote from "Vanity Fair" 2004)I don't call KA/QR evil or villianous but I don't think this seems right, kind, explicable nor honorable. My opinion.

Why would you say King Abdullah deceived people about this? It was inevitable (the announcement). Most people realized Hamzah's position to be only temporary.

 

[Safaa Batin]

Jerky in their actions and not just this one.....I was very upset when KA, QR and their family was targeted for assasination by I believe al Quaeda. I don't buy the annoucement from KA. I think there is pettiness going on which is beneath them and all concerned. I think there is a lot more to the story and it smacks of things that are not admirable, honest nor in the best interest of anyone at this time. I don't like deception. I rethought it out and wrote a more comprehensive response. I am shocked and with all that is going on in the world right now, this seems neither the time or place for the decision. I think KA's announcement makes no sense. If that makes me a jerk instead, I will step up to the plate. I believe in keeping your word and if you can't, say so at the time. How do we know KH didn't ask KA to work to change constitution to permit Hamzah to succeed him? I believe in honesty, empathy and the simple fact leaders are supposed to be role models in their conduct. I believe in supporting worthy causes--and I put my money where my mouth is in this case by contributing annually to KHF and QNF. I find it sad that my donations to the people of Jordan don't equal the amount spent by QR on a purse. (her own words when asked favorite gift: a Louis Vuitton bag from her husband; not a "gift" honoring her by Jordanian children or the people. Seems superficial. Quote from "Vanity Fair" 2004)I don't call KA/QR evil or villianous but I don't think this seems right, kind, explicable nor honorable. My opinion.

You can't describe the King and the Queen that bad just because you do not share them same preferences, if Queen Rania prefers her son to be a king that make sence it is natural, but with all my respect you people from over the seas if prefer hamzah that make no since, actually irrelevant.

 

[Gobsmacked]

I think, as do most people, that King Abdullah intended this all along, but it happened much sooner than any of us anticipated.

Why did it happen now rather than later?

My theory is just that King Abdullah knows that if something happens to him, his son will be too young to actually run Jordan and act as king. He wants the same people loyal to him now, to continue in influence until his son can take over. If he lets Hamza remain Crown Prince, there is a possibility that if disloyalties or dissent will arise, there will be another "side" (Hamza's) to move to or another potential ruler (Hamza) to influence.

By placing his son in the chain, he has removed this "other side."

If someone wants to assassinate King Abdullah, they are still stuck with his people acting through his son. Strategically, it's a good move.

It makes me wonder if there has been some dissent in the royal advisors and if Hamza has expressed views contrary to the King's.

I do find it curious that King Abdullah never mentioned his father's desire to see Hamza as CP in his letter, he made it sound like the decision to place Hamza as Crown Prince was all his own. He also makes the CP title seem trivial. I think he doesn't want to be seen as going against his father's wishes which would possibily put him in an unfavorable light with many Jordanians who held the former King in such high esteem.

 

[Humera]

Thanks Humera. I truly hope the democratization of Jordan happens fairly soon, in the next decade or so. To mix family and politics, as I've said above is terrible. There's always someone painted as the bad guy and it reflects badly on the whole family. Royalty is perhaps better off being above politics. I hope the reaction to the recent news about Hamzah makes people at the palace take note.

I agree. Although Jordan is far from a democratic country, following the succession rules is a start. Prince Hamzah certainly wouldn't be the Crown Prince in a democratic country like Britian or any other European monarchy.
Like you say, mixing politics and the personal matters of the monarch is dangerous, which is precisely why in places like the UK the monarchy isnt allowed to interfere in the governing process.


As Safaa Batin mentioned in a different thread, the Jordanian monarchy has always been passed down from father to son, like the monarchies in the rest of the world. It was only King Hussein who changed the constitution to "allow" his brother to become Crown Prince. Even with that change, the son of the King would naturally be the preferred heir. The only reason Prince Hassan became CP was because of the uncertainty at the time. King Hussein shouldn't have made that change in the first place, then Prince Hamzah wouldn't be in this mess. Even if Prince Abdullah was young at the time, he still should've been CP.
Like I've said before, if you dont follow the law when it comes to something as important as the succession of a monarchy, than all you'll have is anarchy.
Now that doesnt mean I like what Abdullah has done to Hamzah. But it was, unfortunately, a necessary step to clear up the confusion.

 

[Banadoora]

Wow..
Im still surprised at how many people wanted Hamzah to be King.
I like him too and as much as Im disappointed in Abdullah for handling all of this so badly, he's only correcting his father's mistake, like Balqis said, by following the rules of succession.

I can't help but agree with you Humera. I'm one of the many who whould have like to see Hamzah become king but were he a member of another royal family, he wouldn't have been considered for the job at all.

I wonder if Abdullah will choose another one of his brothers now. I doubt it though. He'll most likely want his son to be Crown Prince. His description of the position of Crown Prince as being merely an honourary title sort of gives it away. His son could be young enough to hold that honourary title without having many responsibilities.

 

[pdas1201]

Check out this article from the Chicago Sun times, especially the headlines. I have highlighed the stuff I found "interesting."

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Jordan's king boots brother
[/font]
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]November 29, 2004[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]BY JAMAL HALABY[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]AMMAN, Jordan -- King Abdullah II stripped his half brother and heir apparent of his title as crown prince in an abrupt shakeup Sunday aimed at redeeming the full power the king inherited from his late father.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]He told Prince Hamzah in an emotional televised message that he had decided to ''free'' him ''from the constraints of the position of crown prince in order to give you the freedom to work and undertake any mission or responsibility I entrust you with.''[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah had chosen Hamzah, now a 24-year-old American college student, hours after their father -- King Hussein -- died of cancer in February 1999. The designation was out of respect for Hussein, who is known to have favored Hamzah the most among his 11 children from four marriages.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Sending a message[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]But Abdullah and his brothers had ''reached mutual consent on the need for change,'' a senior government official told the Associated Press on condition of anonymity. He declined to say if Hamzah, who returned home Friday on a college break, was present.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah was making this move ''to tell everyone that he's firmly on the saddle,'' said Jordanian political analyst Labib Kamhawi Kamhawi.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah and Hamzah displayed no open rivalry. The king hosted a state reception and a gala dinner for Hamzah on May 27, when the royal family officially celebrated the prince's August wedding to a distant cousin.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Hamzah has been an undergraduate student in political science at a U.S. university since the fall of 2001. He was married in August 2003 and his wife, Princess Noor, 22, attends the same American university, which Jordanian officials have refused to name for security reasons.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah is often seen warmly greeting Hamzah in public. Officials say privately that he lets Hamzah in on private matters.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]No successor named[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Mahmoud Kharabsheh, a longtime member of parliament's Legal Committee, said the change was in line with the constitution, which says the crown must go to Abdullah's eldest son -- Hussein, now age 10 -- or his eldest brother, Faisal, but not to Hamzah, who is one of the king's younger brothers.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]A senior aide to the king said the move had no political ramifications.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah did not name a successor on Sunday. He said he would continue to give the issue his ''sincere attention.''[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Hamzah is Hussein's son from his fourth marriage, to New York-born Lisa Halaby, who became Queen Noor when she converted to Islam upon her marriage to Hussein in 1978.[/font]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Abdullah is Hussein's eldest son. His mother is Englishwoman Antoinette Gardiner, who became known as Princess Muna, the late king's second wife.[/font]

 

[Humera]

pdas I noticed that the last name of the author of that article is Halaby. Thats the same last name Queen Noor had before she married King Hussein.
I wonder if there's a connection?

 

[pdas1201]

pdas I noticed that the last name of the author of that article is Halaby. Thats the same last name Queen Noor had before she married King Hussein.
I wonder if there's a connection?

WOW, just saw it...funny, huh..

As far as I know, Jamal Halaby mostly covers the news from Jordan for his newspaper, Associated Press. I have read couple of his articles and found some interesting, thus, I posted this one.

 

[Safaa Batin]

But Abdullah and his brothers had ''reached mutual consent on the need for change,'' a senior government official told the Associated Press on condition of anonymity. He declined to say if Hamzah, who returned home Friday on a college break, was present.

Hamza was present.

 

[Humera]

WOW, just saw it...funny, huh..

As far as I know, Jamal Halaby mostly covers the news from Jordan for his newspaper, Associated Press. I have read couple of his articles and found some interesting, thus, I posted this one.

Thanx for the info.
I suppose it could be a coincidence.