Counts Ingolf (b. 1940) and Christian (1942-2013) of Rosenborg and Families


If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
So the Rosenborg Countesses sold also Princess Elisabeth heirloom.
A small item 978 (9 cm) from Henrik Wigstrom who worked for Fabergé was sold 850.000 DKK , estimation price between 100.000 ans 150.000 !
 
The Bruun Rasmussen auction over a number of items from the Rosenborg family has as you know been put up for auction.
The star attraction was of course the sapphire tiara, but there were of course quite a few of other items that went under the hammer.
The three Rosenborg sisters, Camilla, Josephine and Feodora paid for the expenses and a 16 % sales fee.
The rest went into their pockets.

Here are the scans of some of items put up for auction.
Note in particular the captions in blue boxes.
Vurdering = Assessment.
Solgt = sale price.

And a rough converter:
1 £ = 8.5 DKK.
1 € = 7.5 DKK.
1 $ = 6 DKK.

But see for yourselves here:
https://app.box.com/s/z4tlob80h3iea4hykgr5399sz1n9o3ux
https://app.box.com/s/k2ixrt5epjky1dwk8nl09sp3cacpx97k
https://app.box.com/s/o93nitec6ivf3vz77kqwddyskh97zusz
https://app.box.com/s/pjwjn0oy4f0t8qe8ubb2mu3q8lxghm13
https://app.box.com/s/9hjsgvckd5w0vukwsw86bzvldhaxw9t5
https://app.box.com/s/48x9k9squoy8t8vsb7gg9fk52ljuro07
 
Princess Elisabeth had a fine collection of jewels and other antiques :previous:
 
Summary of article in Billed Bladet #51, 2018.
Written by Anna Johannesen.

Who met Count Ingolf and his wife Countess Sussie, when they recently visited Sorgenfri Cemetery in order to put flowers on Princess Elisabeth's grave.
78 year old Cont Ingolf is getting older too. He needed the support from his wife when he bent down to place the flowers.

Prior to going to the cemetery the two of them drove past Sorgenfri Manor first, in order to pause and reflect for a moment.

Count Ingolf said: "It is so strange that Elisabeth is here no more. I miss her og now here at Christmas time it's really hard. Sussie and I used to visit her in December to bring her her Christmas presents, and we are here at her grave at Sorgenfri Kirkegård. (Kirkegård = church-yard = cemetery.) It's sad. That's ho I can best put it."

Each year Ingolf gave his sister the same present:
"Elisabeth loved Greenland, so that's why she each year got the Greenland-calendar with twelve different, very fine pictures from the beautiful island. It's odd not having to order it this year. It has after all been a tradition.
Then we all had lunch together, drank coffee and had a cozy time. But we never celebrated Christmas together. We celebrated that apart."

He explains how he and his wife, who live at a small manor in Jutland, celebrate Christmas:
"In the afternoon we go to Fredericia garrison-church and then we drive home and eat roast pork with all that goes to that. And at the end risalamande (a rice-porridge dessert.)
After the dinner we watch a little TV and if we have been given books for Christmas, we flip through them. We don't have a Christmas tree, that's too much effort."

But in the childhood, also at Sorgenfri Manor.
"Then we had a Christmas tree going to the ceiling and all the presents on tables here and there. That was an evening we three children, Elisabeth, Christian and I looked forward to. Now I'm left alone.
To lose your little brother is terrible and after the death of Christian only six months passed then his wife Anne Dorte died as well. I never get used to that."

Before visiting Elisabeth's grave, they went by Sorgenfri Manor.
"Then we stopped for a moment and remembered Elisabeth. Because we lived so far apart, (*) we didn't see each other so often, but we spoke on the phone and usually had a good talk.
Fortunately Sussie and I managed to visit Elisabeth at the hospice where she was committed at the end. That was eight days before she died and she was very weak. She couldn't speak, but when we left we could tell from her eyes that now she said goodbye."

Count Ingolf also visited the graves of his younger brother and sister-in-law at Lyngby Cemetery.
As well as visiting the sarcophagus of his parents in Roskilde Cathedral. The sarcophagus is placed in the crypt of the Cathedral "so you need a special permit to get down there."
When Count Ingolf dies he too will be buried in Roskilde Cathedral. "That has been allowed by the Queen. Together with Sussie, of course."

(*) Distances are relative. In DK the little more than 200 km by road from Ingolf's home to Northern Zealand where Elisabeth lived, is a long distance.
 
Thanks Mr Muhler for sharing Count Ingolf's interview. It was a warm family. I did not know that as the focus is always on the main Royals
 
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Clara of Rosenborg had her confirmation at Lundtofte Church today, May 17 - several members of the family attended the ceremony:


** ppe gallery **
 
Thanks you Iceflower, I enjoy your posts with many pictures. I don't like instagram pictures .
 
Why is Josephine no longer styled a Countess (unequal marriage? )
 
Why is Josephine no longer styled a Countess (unequal marriage? )
A Danish komtesse (daughter of a count) looses her title upon marriage and after that she carries the title of her husband. If he doesn't have one then neither does she. If a female member of the nobility marries a commoner she looses her status as a noble and won't get it back after a divorce.
The three Rosenborg sisters got the Queen's permission to keep their names when they married, but not their titles. In spite of this they still go by their birth title in the tabloids (where some of them are frequently mentioned) and other media.
 
Why are all count Christian's grandchildren 'of Rosenborgs' instead of carrying their fathers' surnames?
 
A Danish komtesse (daughter of a count) looses her title upon marriage and after that she carries the title of her husband. If he doesn't have one then neither does she. If a female member of the nobility marries a commoner she looses her status as a noble and won't get it back after a divorce.
The three Rosenborg sisters got the Queen's permission to keep their names when they married, but not their titles. In spite of this they still go by their birth title in the tabloids (where some of them are frequently mentioned) and other media.

What an archaic rule,I bet it doesn't happen to the males!
 
What an archaic rule,I bet it doesn't happen to the males!

It doesn't.
A son is a count and remains a count after marriage.

It is indeed unfair. But then noble titles is by their very nature anything but about equality.
 
A beautiful photo of the happy bride. They make a lovely couple.

A lot of these old rules seem unfair in todays world. A noble girl is expected to marry a man of equal or better status. When she doesn't sa la vie. The marriage rules I expect only differ very slightly from court to court.
As the male heir is meant to inherit everything (ie; the estate) and carry on the title thru the generations. A nobles daughters are not looked after by the family estate when they marry as her husband is meant to give a title and or status.

Also many thanks Muhler on your post of Count Ingolfs interview. I only just saw it today.
 
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Why are all count Christian's grandchildren 'of Rosenborgs' instead of carrying their fathers' surnames?
As far as I know you're free to take the surname of your mother. In fact many Danish ladies either keep their own surname or add that of their husband to their own upon marriage. It's quite common these days for Danes to carry their mother's surname if it's one that sounds "better" than that of their father. This is often the case if the fathers name ends with -sen or is otherwise one that's in common use.
Even if the children of the Rosenborg sisters had used their father's surname it would also have been normal if they carried their mother's surname as a middle name - "Anastasia af Rosenborg Rosanes".
 
How related is the groom to Countess Josephine's first husband, Thomas Christian Schmidt?
Probably not at all. Schmidt is not an unusual surname in Denmark. In fact I think it's one of the 10 most common surnames so if the two are related it's probably not very close.
 
Congratulations to Countess Josephine and her new husband :flowers:
I hope they both find happiness in their re-marriage.
 
Count Ingolf turns 80 today, and while there are no official celebrations, nor private celebrations, his nieces will mark the day in some form or another, that is going to be a surprise. But Ingolf doesn't know what they have in mind.

QMII has today been to the 80th birthday of a very close friend, Birgitta Hillingsø, and as such is not visiting Ingolf on his estate in Jutland.
But publicly he has been given quite a bit of attention in the news. The coverage has been positive but also brutally honest as to one of the reasons Ingolf is not being celebrated as king today. The Knud family was simply widely considered too ugly and too awkward to be the primary royals.

Ingolf himself has been interviewed by BT, and he said among other things:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kan-du-genkende-denne-kongelige-dreng-mandag-fylder-han-80-aar
He and his cousin Margrethe were actually close when they were children. But the change of the Constitution in 1953 changed that relationship.
"Yes, it did, because our acquaintanceship wasn't as close as it could have been."
He points out that after the change the children were treated differently.

It was as mentioned above no secret that the Knud branch of the family were not "that presentable" as a royal expert labelled it on the news this evening. In contrast to the very presentable and hugely popular Frederik IX side of the family, and Ingolf felt that:
"I have also always been mocked and bullied, but I have gotten used to it."

QMII remarks in the recent portrait of Frederik IX that Prince Knud wasn't happy about the change in 1953.

Q: Did You also notice that it was hard for Your father that the Law of Succession was changed?

Ingolf: "I did, yes. But well, that was the terms. We didn't speak about it, it was suppressed."
Ingolf himself was affected, even though he couldn't do much about it:
"One just had to put up with it."

Q: Was it something that was a part of Your life back as a thirteen year old?

I: "It did, but one shouldn't get stuck on trivialities."

The change meant that Ingolf took an agrarian education and bough his present estate in 1967. He developed an interest in farming as a boy. But ten years ago he gave up farming himself, so no his lands are rented out to other farmers. But stopping wasn't easy:
"It was something I had to get used to."

He is now married to his second wife, Countess Sussie of Rosenborg. She was originally a lawyer whom he met in connection with dealing with the inheritance after the death of his mother, Princess Caroline-Mathilde. At that time his first wife, Inge Terney, been dead a few years, from cancer. Ingolf and Sussie were married in 1998 and she is almost exactly ten years younger than him.

He is now the only surviving of three siblings, whom he miss a lot. They were very close and had been since childhood, because they had a very strict childhood. With little show of affection from their parents.

His wife turns 70 this Thursday but they won't mark their birthdays until summer, where they will go on holiday to an undisclosed place.

Ingolf is pretty happy about having made it to 80. considering that is suffering from KOL, is a recovering alcoholic (more on that later) and was committed for an extended period for pneumonia last year.

Q: Do You ever wonder, how Your life would have been, had You become king?

I: "I can never answer that."

But he and his wife will, in contrast to what had been rumored, be laid to rest at Roskilde Cathedral along with other members of the DRF.

https://www.bt.dk/kendte/grev-ingolf-tre-maaneder-mere-og-jeg-var-doed-af-druk
Ingolf is a recovering alcoholic and almost died from his habit in fact.
He was told by his doctor in September 1985 that he he didn't kick his habit he wouldn't make it past Christmas.
Until then he had pretty much been perpetually tipsy.
"Yes, and it's terribly to admit. After eight weeks being sober I recall thinking: Good heavens. Is being sober like that? I haven't tried that for many years."

He went on antabus for two years and went public about his alcoholism as well, and that was a help in the sense that people made sure not to serve alcohol for him, until then he would down almost anything, except whiskey. He never liked whiskey.

https://www.bt.dk/royale/hjaelp-b.t.-er-grev-ingolf-indehaver-af-denne-danmarksrekord
Ingolf may be the holder of a DK record in a living person having no less than ten first names! - Just as his siblings, but they are sort of dead and don't count in this context.
His full name is: Ingolf Christian Frederik Knud Harald Gorm Gustav Viggo Valdemar Aage.

Having ten names was on insistence of their father, Prince Knud.

The paper has so far unsuccessful tired to find out if there are others in DK with ten or more first names. But none of the public registers count first names.

ADDED: A gallery: https://www.bt.dk/kendte/grev-ingolf-saadan-kender-vi-ham
 
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Congratulations to Count Ingolf in finding his way in life and reaching the age of 80 years.:flowers:
 
Count Ingolf turns 80 today, (…) The coverage has been positive but also brutally honest as to one of the reasons Ingolf is not being celebrated as king today. The Knud family was simply widely considered too ugly and too awkward to be the primary royals.

Ingolf himself has been interviewed by BT, and he said among other things:
https://www.bt.dk/royale/kan-du-genkende-denne-kongelige-dreng-mandag-fylder-han-80-aar
He and his cousin Margrethe were actually close when they were children. But the change of the Constitution in 1953 changed that relationship.
"Yes, it did, because our acquaintanceship wasn't as close as it could have been."
He points out that after the change the children were treated differently.

It was as mentioned above no secret that the Knud branch of the family were not "that presentable" as a royal expert labelled it on the news this evening. In contrast to the very presentable and hugely popular Frederik IX side of the family, and Ingolf felt that:
"I have also always been mocked and bullied, but I have gotten used to it."

QMII remarks in the recent portrait of Frederik IX that Prince Knud wasn't happy about the change in 1953.

Q: Did You also notice that it was hard for Your father that the Law of Succession was changed?

Ingolf: "I did, yes. But well, that was the terms. We didn't speak about it, it was suppressed."
Ingolf himself was affected, even though he couldn't do much about it:
"One just had to put up with it."

Q: Was it something that was a part of Your life back as a thirteen year old?

I: "It did, but one shouldn't get stuck on trivialities."
(…)
Q: Do You ever wonder, how Your life would have been, had You become king?

I: "I can never answer that."

But he and his wife will, in contrast to what had been rumored, be laid to rest at Roskilde Cathedral along with other members of the DRF.

https://www.bt.dk/kendte/grev-ingolf-tre-maaneder-mere-og-jeg-var-doed-af-druk
(…)

It's interesting how people have expressed concerns for Carl-Philip no longer being in direct line to the throne while he was only a baby when the change came about, while Ingolf was 'robbed' of the throne when he was 13 years old (and his father much older) - to be replaced by his also 13 year old cousin. How many people expressed such concern at that time or was it widely seen as the right thing to do?

Something like that could surely make anyone depressed, especially if part of the (informally) expressed reason was that you weren't presentable enough (because you were too ugly).
 
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Congratulations to Count Ingolf in finding his way in life and reaching the age of 80 years.:flowers:

I echo your sentiments Lady Daly. Very good choice of words.

I am curious as to why Prince Knud was so harsh with his children, even before the accession issue. Princess Elizabeth spoke about it in interviews.

And Mang Tak again to Muhler for your time and effort, much appreciated.
 
It's interesting how people have expressed concerns for Carl-Philip no longer being in direct line to the throne while he was only a baby when the change came, while Ingolf was 'robbed' of the throne when he was 13 years old (and his father much older) - to be replaced by his also 13 year old cousin. How many people expressed such concern at that time or was it widely seen as the right thing to do?

Something like that could surely make anyone depressed, especially if part of the (informally) expressed reason was that you weren't presentable enough (because you were too ugly).

Hmm, I can't say for certain. I wasn't around at the time, but from what I understand from family members talking about the subject, I don't think there was much concern about the feelings of children back then - and as such nor much concern for Ingolf either.
It was certainly seen as the right thing to do by the general public.

- And I won't blame them.
If I said that looks doesn't matter when it's about the DRF, I would by lying. Looks does matter - probably even more today. Being presentable does matter. The DRF are after all the foremost representatives of my country and it is in my egoistic interest that these representatives should be the best possible - in regards to character, abilities and looks.
They don't have to be beautiful, just presentable. And being, shall we say, very little conventionally attractive does detract.

I know. It's brutal, it's heartless, it's cynical, but DK is a small country and we need the best representatives we can get.
I will ask a question to you reading this, and you don't have to answer here, only to yourself in the mirror: If you have two persons, who are pretty much equally qualified, but one is less than attractive while the other has a more presentable look without being a stunner, who would you prefer as your nation's official face for decades to come? Or would you honestly, deep down, say it doesn't matter?
 
I echo your sentiments Lady Daly. Very good choice of words.

I am curious as to why Prince Knud was so harsh with his children, even before the accession issue. Princess Elizabeth spoke about it in interviews.

And Mang Tak again to Muhler for your time and effort, much appreciated.

You are welcome. 😄

Perhaps he resembled his father in personality? It very much sounds like Prince Knud ran his family in pretty much the same way as his father.
Prince Knud was, I suspect, patriarch first, then husband, then father.
Frederik IX was husband and father first, then patriarch (and I'm far from sure he was a patriarch.)
 
It's interesting how people have expressed concerns for Carl-Philip no longer being in direct line to the throne while he was only a baby when the change came, while Ingolf was 'robbed' of the throne when he was 13 years old (and his father much older) - to be replaced by his also 13 year old cousin. How many people expressed such concern at that time or was it widely seen as the right thing to do?

Something like that could surely make anyone depressed, especially if part of the (informally) expressed reason was that you weren't presentable enough (because you were too ugly).

Indeed. Apparently, a certain group of the voting public thinks teaching that ugly people are "unpresentable" is essential, whereas fairness to women is not.

One wonders what that group will do if Prince Christian marries an ugly woman and has ugly children.


Hmm, I can't say for certain. I wasn't around at the time, but from what I understand from family members talking about the subject, I don't think there was much concern about the feelings of children back then - and as such nor much concern for Ingolf either.
It was certainly seen as the right thing to do by the general public.

- And I won't blame them.
If I said that looks doesn't matter when it's about the DRF, I would by lying. Looks does matter - probably even more today. Being presentable does matter. The DRF are after all the foremost representatives of my country and it is in my egoistic interest that these representatives should be the best possible - in regards to character, abilities and looks.
They don't have to be beautiful, just presentable. And being, shall we say, very little conventionally attractive does detract.

I know. It's brutal, it's heartless, it's cynical, but DK is a small country and we need the best representatives we can get.
I will ask a question to you reading this, and you don't have to answer here, only to yourself in the mirror: If you have two persons, who are pretty much equally qualified, but one is less than attractive while the other has a more presentable look without being a stunner, who would you prefer as your nation's official face for decades to come? Or would you honestly, deep down, say it doesn't matter?

Presumably, you are conventionally attractive and asking the question to those who are. Have you asked the same question to Danes who are not conventionally attractive?
 
Presumably, you are conventionally attractive and asking the question to those who are. Have you asked the same question to Danes who are not conventionally attractive?

Average looking, I'd say in all honesty.

No, I haven't asked that question and political correctness would (mercifully) prevent such an issue from being discussed openly today. But it would be discussed around the coffee-tables, that I'm willing to bet almost anything.

So while I don't think a future Ingolf would be publicly by-passed in the same manner, I do think it would dramatically reduce the backing of the monarchy.
Unless a future Ingolf would be able to make up for his lack of good looks with other positive traits that would endear him to the general public. But it would be an uphill struggle from childhood.
It's a cruel world.
 
Thanks Mr Muhler for your always fine posts.
I may understand that looks does matter. All the Royals and mostly Queens and Princesses are nowadays like Models. It is due to Coaches etc....
I have one question : Could their look be from the Wedding of Prince Knud to Princess Caroline Mathilde, they were close cousins?
 
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