Bowing and Curtseying

[MargreteI]

I don't have a problem curtseying to royalty and I dont see it as anything more then a token of respect mixed with tradition and I am quite sure the royals practise it alot more through their lives then I ever will. If they can do it, I can do it.

 

[MarvelousMarta]

I don't like the curtsy. I think it's out dated and a bit demeaning. I nod of the head is more than sufficient to show respect. I really dislike family members bowing to other family members such as Christina, Elena and Letizia bowing to King Juan Carlos. It's family! It just drives me up the wall.

 

[Empress]

Just a question. As Prince Philip is not a monarch, but the spouse/consort of a monarch, should he bow to Kings and Queens (although, obviously not to his wife.)?

 

[Her_Majesty]

Just a question. As Prince Philip is not a monarch, but the spouse/consort of a monarch, should he bow to Kings and Queens (although, obviously not to his wife.)?

Yeah, I would like to know that, too...
Well, I saw pictures of the Queen and Phillip welcoming Harald V. and Sonja of Norway... There were just shake-hands and kisses...

 

[Oppie]

Just a question. As Prince Philip is not a monarch, but the spouse/consort of a monarch, should he bow to Kings and Queens (although, obviously not to his wife.)?

No, consort don't bow to other monarchs or there consorts.

Prince Philip did bow to his wife at her coronation however.

 

[lisamaria]

I have got the impression that royals should be curtsied only by their own subjects - and not always by them either. For example, if the American president visits the Queen, the British ladies of the entourage who greet her curtsy, the Americans don't. Similarly, Swedish people don't curtsy to Norwegian royals. Citizens of republic countries curtsy to no one, not even to their own president.

 

[RoyalProtocol]

[Princess Diana cursteying to ?
(interesting picture )]quote

I don't understand this at all, I have saw video footage of this picture during the visiti of the King of Thailand? in the 1990's and I don't understand why they would curtsey to each other?

 

[magnik]

The lady in blue curtsey to the Princess of Wales.
The Princess curtsey becouse she thought that this lady was a Queen or smth like that.

 

[Marengo]

...and next to Audrey Hepburn but she was a British citizen, I believe, who was born in Belgium).
.

not that it matters for this thread, but as a dutchman I have to add that Audrey's mother was Dutch, a Baroness van Heemstra (Old Frisian Nobility, many of them served at the court).

 

[BurberryBrit]

I am American and my mom grew up in the Caribbean while the island was still a British territory. Due to my love of royalty, I would without a doubt curtsey to any royal.

A side note: in the recent movie Marie Antoinette, I loved Kirsten Dunst's curtsey. She curtsied with one arm extended to the side and the other hand placed in front of her chest. If I can find a movie still, I will post it. That is exactly how I would curtsey. I also like how CP Mary curtsied to Queen Margrethe the week of the wedding by grasping both her hands and bowing deeply.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I'm an American, but if I was ever in a situation where I was to meet a royal, I would show proper respect and curtsey to them. I may not be a subject of their country, but to me I'm showing respect to the position they hold. The same as I would say Ma'am/Sir if I was introduced to a Head of State, whether it be a President or Prime Minister.

And to the person who referenced Jackie Kennedy....the world needs more ladies like her. Look up the word "grace" in the dictionary and you'll see her face.

 

[BurberryBrit]

^ Yes, where are the women like Jackie? And Audrey for that matter? They don't make women like that anymore. Class acts all the way.

 

[LauraMCS]

I am an American and wouldn't curtsey to a royal if my life depended on it. If I'm not going to curtsey to a President then I won't curtsey to a Monarch. I would shake hands politely and refer to them as Sir or Ma'am and leave it at that.

I wouldn't dream of curtseying to the children or grandchildren of a monarch or calling them Sir or Ma'am. A handshake is sufficient for them and greeting them by first name is perfectly fine.

 

[Sister Morphine]

I am an American and wouldn't curtsey to a royal if my life depended on it. If I'm not going to curtsey to a President then I won't curtsey to a Monarch. I would shake hands politely and refer to them as Sir or Ma'am and leave it at that.

The difference is, you don't curtsey to Presidents. Presidents and Monarchs are not the same. Have you ever seen anyone curtsey to a US President? No you have not. However, you show them respect for their position by saying "Sir" or "Mr. President". You just don't grab their hand and say "Hey George, what up?".

The same can be said about greeting a King/Queen. You don't have to do a full curtsey and touch the floor, but a slight bob and a "Sir" or "Ma'am" wouldn't be disgraceful.

 

[Sister Morphine]

^ Yes, where are the women like Jackie? And Audrey for that matter? They don't make women like that anymore. Class acts all the way.

I guess they are considered relics of their time, although that's a pretty sad statement in an of itself.

 

[LauraMCS]

The difference is, you don't curtsey to Presidents. Presidents and Monarchs are not the same. Have you ever seen anyone curtsey to a US President? No you have not. However, you show them respect for their position by saying "Sir" or "Mr. President". You just don't grab their hand and say "Hey George, what up?".

The same can be said about greeting a King/Queen. You don't have to do a full curtsey and touch the floor, but a slight bob and a "Sir" or "Ma'am" wouldn't be disgraceful.

Presidents and Monarchs are the same as they are all Heads of State. If I don't curtsey to my own Head of State then I'm not going to curtsey to another.

I do call the Presidents of the United States as "Mr. President" or "Sir" and would refer to a Monarch as "Your Majesty" or "Sir" or "Ma'am". I just refuse to do the same for their children. Birth does not equal worth. Royals are not my superiors and therefore not entitled my curtsey.

I used the first name reference for the children and grandchildren of monarchs.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Presidents and Monarchs are the same as they are all Heads of State. If I don't curtsey to my own Head of State then I'm not going to curtsey to another.

I know that both Presidents and Monarchs are heads of state, but they are not the same kind of Head of State. You don't bow/curtsy to Presidents. You'd look rather ridiculous curtsying to George Bush.

And no one is saying that you should curtsy to a royal to show that they are superior to you. No one is superior to anyone. However, doing that shows respect for the position they hold, the same as saying "Sir" or "Mr. President" shows respect for the position they hold. You aren't acknowledging superiority, you're acknowledging what they do for a living.


I guess I'm one of those old-fashioned types who just think it respectful to a bob a curtsy if you're introduced to a royal. If I met Prince Harry, I wouldn't, but if I met his father or grandmother, I would.

 

[Empress]

I am an American and wouldn't curtsey to a royal if my life depended on it. If I'm not going to curtsey to a President then I won't curtsey to a Monarch. I would shake hands politely and refer to them as Sir or Ma'am and leave it at that.

I wouldn't dream of curtseying to the children or grandchildren of a monarch or calling them Sir or Ma'am. A handshake is sufficient for them and greeting them by first name is perfectly fine.

Well, when in Rome, as they say. And if the good people of their own country see fit to curtsey/bow then I say that visitors/others should show the same respect. In any case, I think that one should follow the custom when regarding heads of state, or monarch/relations of said people, or at least follow what tradition, and their culture dictate.

If nothing else, show respect for what they have obviously acheived in life. And if the custom of their country is to show that same respect to the relations of that person then I think others should as well.

Obviously birth does not equal worth, no one was saying that, and certainly no one was saying that anyone is superior. However, I suppose that what one would do when faced with such a situation is based on their experiences and upbringing. Where I grew up, we never addressed anyone by their first names without being invited to do so, and we ALWAYS showed proper respect for someones station in life, as well as their acheivements and successes. Maybe I am just old school, but that is the way I plan to bring my children up as well. Personally I am a bit fed up with the lack of respect in todays world.

Oh and just for the record, I am American as well.

For goodness sake, even Jacqueline Kennedy and JFK bowed to Her Majesty, as well as to her children. IF they can do that, I imagine that the rest of us should have no problem doing so.

And I certainly do not call anyone whom I first meet by their first name, and I would imagine that should you meet the presidents daughter you out to address her an Ms Bush. Just as you should address anyone by their last name when you first meet them, until you are given their permission to address them by their first name. (Unless of course they introduce themselves to you by their first name.)

But again, I suppose it is all about respecting another persons culture and position, and some people might not feel inclined to do that. I would though.

 

[Sister Morphine]

Well, when in Rome, as they say. And if the good people of their own country see fit to curtsey/bow then I say that visitors/others should show the same respect. In any case, I think that one should follow the custom when regarding heads of state, or monarch/relations of said people, or at least follow what tradition, and their culture dictate.

If nothing else, show respect for what they have obviously acheived in life. And if the custom of their country is to show that same respect to the relations of that person then I think others should as well.

For goodness sake, even Jacqueline Kennedy and JFK bowed to Her Majesty, as well as to her children. IF they can do that, I imagine that the rest of us should have no problem doing so.

And I certainly do not call anyone whom I first meet by their first name, and I would imagine that should you meet the presidents daughter you out to address her an Ms Bush. Just as you should address anyone by their last name when you first meet them, until you are given their permission to address them by their first name. (Unless of course they introduce themselves to you by their first name.)

But again, I suppose it is all about respecting another persons culture and position, and some people might not feel inclined to do that. I would though.

Well said, Empress.

 

[BurberryBrit]

I agree with you Empress and Morphine.

 

[Vanesa]

Other little thing we must remember is, that if you are visiting another country, you must accept the courtesy rules of this country and acts like the natives does. A forever rule in good social behavior is not to make one self so remarkable that everyone would turn their heads to watch how weird we are.

Vanesa.

 

[adelaide]

Other little thing we must remember is, that if you are visiting another country, you must accept the courtesy rules of this country and acts like the natives does. A forever rule in good social behavior is not to make one self so remarkable that everyone would turn their heads to watch how weird we are.

Vanesa.

Totally correct. You have a lot of possibilities to act how people do in such occasion you are meeting a monarch and nobody unforce men to do a servil bow and nobody unforce woman t odo a so deep curtseying that she can't to go up.

It's only a question of respect of the local rules.

Yes if a Texan one ( I apologizez it's only for my explanation) he is going to bit the shoulder of a quenn to say Hi, I think it's quiet ridiculous,but in America you have people who are sometime more select than in Europa and who have some very strict rules of conduct, i'm thinking to the Wasp.

Do you know in New York the "Bal des Petits Blancs" it's quiet like" Bal des Débutantes" in Paris. The young girl have to make curtseying....

 

[magnik]

That's right Vanesa and adelaide.
I remember when our former First Lady Mrs Joplanta Kwasniewska told about her nad husband very official visit in Thailand (I think it was this country). She was in shock about courtesy rules of this country even of that that she know before what rules are there.

 

[BeatrixFan]

It's very much like Germaine Greer who has always said she is a Republican. She curtsied to the Queen when she attended a lunch at Buckingham Palace and when they asked her why she said, "Those are the rules of the house and I'd be very rude indeed if I didn't follow them. A curtsey is a mark of respect and I wouldn't do it for everyone but the Queen is a great lady who I respect so I curtsied".

 

[Roxsteve]

Why would you curtsey to someone who was a tv anchor and now by marriage only is a princess? Same with MM? She used to wait tables and now I have to curtsey? Nothing against them, but why should anyone have to do that? I would only do it to the Pope, but if I am not from a country where they have Kings or Queens, why should I curtsey? It's ridiculous--I bet the royals feel odd about doing that, especially those who became princesses by marriage...please this is 2006, not 1806...Only an opinion...

 

[BeatrixFan]

You mention you'd curtsey to the Pope. Well, we curtsey to our Royals for the same reason you'd curtsey to the Pope.

 

[Roxsteve]

You mention you'd curtsey to the Pope. Well, we curtsey to our Royals for the same reason you'd curtsey to the Pope.

Point well taken, but even royals curtsey to clergy. That's all.

 

[adelaide]

Why would you curtsey to someone who was a tv anchor and now by marriage only is a princess? Same with MM? She used to wait tables and now I have to curtsey? Nothing against them, but why should anyone have to do that? I would only do it to the Pope, but if I am not from a country where they have Kings or Queens, why should I curtsey? It's ridiculous--I bet the royals feel odd about doing that, especially those who became princesses by marriage...please this is 2006, not 1806...Only an opinion...

Right only your opinion!

But in fact you don't curteseying the person of Letizia of Borbon Ortiz, you have to curteseyineg Letizia of Borbon Ortiz as Princess of Asturias, that's all.

It's obvious it's the Function that is respected.

I can understand that this kind to manifest the respect can seems to be very old fashionned when you don't have the habit to do it by your education or your style of life.

The best example that I know is the kiss hand witch can to be regard as a very old fashionned way of politeness is in fact a so refined way to greet a woman and which is yet very used in society in Europe, even in family by son for his mother.

I have to confess that as woman I prefer the kis hand rather than a solid shake hand or than a shoulder's bit and I don't think I'm old fashionned at all.

But it's obvious that you don't kiss the woman's hand when you meet her at the butcher or the supermarket....

 

[Lord Sosnowitz]

I totally agree

 

[rschoenfeldt]

In the earlier pages of this thread (post #56) there is a picture of MM curtseying to QEII. The picture and/or link seems to be missing. Does anyone have access to this picture so they could post it again?

Thanks in advance!